DEVILMAN CRYBABY

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > DEVILMAN CRYBABY

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Endorph posted:

okay let's put this down to democracy

quote this post if you think miko and miki are gay

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 00:48

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 19:58

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Sephiroth_IRA posted:

In softball do the girls pat eachother on the rear end like guys do in baseball?

no because that would be a queer reading

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 00:56

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

No, the gaslighting effort is to make people believe that Miko is exclusively lesbian. The translation of daisuki as a word that has exclusive romantic connotations was wrong, and to insist that it still does is arguing in bad faith. Interpreting Miko as gay or bi is valid, and interpreting her as straight is also valid - as is the trans interpretation. There's a more complete reading of the material than the assumption that a character must be definitively categorized.

you are talking to multiple queer people, you are preaching to the choir. please stop assuming the worst

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 01:04

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

i also run red lights

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 01:23

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

as a devilman scholar, gently caress simply isn't supported by the text

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 01:25

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

devilman crybaby: gently caress is aprocypha

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 01:25

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I literally did not say that nobody wants to gently caress, I said that loving and wanting to gently caress is presented as bad. All explicit expressions of sexuality are negative. If you don't believe me, then watch it again. The desire to gently caress is inherently exploitative, and it's presented as such in Crybaby. Sexuality isn't even inherently essential to romantic interest.

Miko had big honkers before she became a devilman, and she takes her bra off because it's a locker room where everyone exposes themselves. Her literal intent in that scene is to expose the fact that she resents Miki and views her as a rival and not as a friend, and she's infuriated because she gets chummy with Miki in spite of her intentions.

Koda's buttsex scene is also bad. He doesn't actually care about the guy he's loving, he's just a tool for him to work off his own problems, and in the end he literally devours him, which is an allusion to the exploitative nature of exclusively sexual relationships.

Crybaby's theme is anti-sexual.

you're an idiot

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 01:59

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

im gonna call loving a mutual act

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 02:09

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

i think this dude has ascended to zenyatta brain at this point

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 03:44

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

actually all im doing is opening you plebian's minds

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 05:00

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Endorph posted:

quote this post if you think the russian dog man is denying the validity of readings different from his

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 07:04

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

miko is a lesbian

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:09

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

You're right, gender is a very complicated subject. That's why I don't understand why it's so outrageous to have a transgender reading, because this feels like trans erasure.

Sure they can, but it's also an undeniably masculine behavior. Exhibiting masculine behaviors in one instance doesn't define a person's gender identity, but when there are so many other differences that embody masculine traits it's hard not to make that interpretation.

That's also why I'm not definitively stating that she is a transman. She could just want to present as masculine because she's gender queer. I said as much several pages ago. There's enough room for both readings, just like there's room to interpret her as being cissexually gay - I just think there's more evidence to support a queer reading of gender than cissex.

I interact with trans people all the time, and their preoccupation with gender expression is rooted in the insecurities from social pressures to cissexually conform. It's society that's incongruous with their identity, not themselves. It's insecurity that's informed by social repression.

miko is a lesbian

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:12

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Maybe you need to define what kind of character traits are feminine, masculine, and neutral then. If you want to argue that there is no such thing as an essentially feminine or masculine trait then I can appreciate that, but it's impossible to interpret a character as transgender by subtext without having to evaluate particular traits according to their gender associations. These are associations informed by society as-it-is not as it should be.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:21

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The need for social affirmation in woman-being and man-being is critically important, and while it's certainly possible to be confident and express a gender identity regardlesss of what society thinks, not everyone can do that. Some people do need that social affirmation, and it's perfectly understandable why your girlfriend is so insecure about being misinterpreted. It's heartbreaking how often I see my trans friends bemoaning that they'll never truly be women, because they think it's impossible for society to accept them as they are.

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# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:30

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Nope. I disagreed with strictly defined interpretations in a story that is intentionally open-ended. The only thing I denied is that it's impossible to make alternative interpretations.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:40

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Do you mean like, in transhumanist terms? Affirming a universally trans reading was one of my earliest posts.

I get why you're sensitive, and why you don't like what I said. Being offensive isn't my intent, and I'm sorry that your girlfriend experiences so much anguish.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:47

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Where? I'm asking you to explain your interpretation of Neo.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:52

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I'm sorry I hurt Xinder's feelings, but that would also be declared a bad faith statement. Hurting people's feelings was never, ever, my intent.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 06:56

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I didn't mean to be dismissive. I didn't even know you're trans or it would have been obvious. I'm not laughing at you, and I understand that interpretation.

At the same time, it doesn't discount a transgender reading informed by explicit gender coding.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 07:01

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Apparently Miko is a lesbian because lesbians can't be trans, if the last several pages are anything to go on.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 08:30

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

You can read all the posts ITT, but it mostly just looks like everyone is talking past each other.

Isn't this the problem with abusing a term like lesbian though? If Miko is a bisexual trans man, then does that mean she suddenly stops being a man if she has a romantic relationship with Miki? The terms are being abused for contrarianism's sake.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 08:31

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The real bisexual could be right by your side.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2018 09:12

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

AnacondaHL posted:

Honest bias disclaimer: I distinctly remember watching this scene for the first time and while looking at the action I just heard the words and self-translated and did not read the subtitles. I only went back to it because of the thread.

This is the scene and dialogue that makes the translation argument. Miki actually just says "Me too!", which imo is ambiguous enough combined with her earlier response to the previous Miko "I love you" to interpret her as wanting to be friends but rejecting the romantic confession.

As a reminder, in the other case her response was "I know. I thought you were cool back then, and I like you". Miko love count: 2, Miki love count: 0. Given the context of impending apocalypse I'm sure this is about as polite of a confession rejection as you can get.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2018 23:22

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

*sighs, pulling out my clipboard*

# ¿ Feb 14, 2018 15:16

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

hmmmm.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2018 20:42

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

AnEdgelord posted:

Ultimately the scope of that particular discussion is far beyond an anime discussion thread on a dead gay comedy forum,

lol

# ¿ Feb 15, 2018 20:44

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

don't talk about faith and philosphy in this show that has satan and god and many conflicting ideologies

# ¿ Feb 15, 2018 22:43

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

personally i think it's fine to discuss thoughts you have on a series even if i may disagree with them

# ¿ Feb 15, 2018 23:04

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

*clearing throat awkwardly* unless you try to assert weird poo poo

# ¿ Feb 15, 2018 23:05

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 19:58

Aurora: Jan 7, 2008

DisDisDis posted:

https://twitter.com/meow_nightcat/status/963072340551544844

lol

# ¿ Feb 25, 2018 16:56

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