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Five episodes in, and I’d call it an excellent adaptation that takes into account what the source material was trying to do and does it better in almost every conceivable way (give or take how enthusiastic you were about the original human character designs). The catch, of course, is that you need to be on board with what the original was trying to do in the first place, and it’s totally reasonable to not be. Or, in other words, if a work’s perfect at being what it is, then that depends on you liking what it is. In this case, pure grimdark, pessimistic id with tits, rear end, ultraviolence, and a weird sense of humour, often all at the same time, where bits of charming character writing are a double-edged sword because you know these goofy kids are about to either do something terrible or have something terrible done to them.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:13
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MechaX posted:I would disagree to some extent, but then I just got to the part where demon bird woman just tells Devilman to literally "screw her" because she "wants it rough. I mean, YMMV a lot on the execution, but I could see what they were going with the whole thing. The traumatic death of his parents disconnects Akira from humanity, and he devolves into the ravening murderfuckbeast he believes demons to be, culminating in his fight/sex scene with Sirene. Then she and her sidekick show him that nobility and self-sacrifice can exist even within demons, giving the kick in the rear end he needs to return to being more than the sum of his instincts.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:49
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eonwe posted:so how is it It’s the best possible version of the sort of story the original manga was. So, uh, depends how much you like that very particular sort of story.
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Jan 6, 2018 04:13
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Holy poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0oyzTFah8w
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Jan 6, 2018 11:02
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StarMinstrel posted:What are those? Context from the manga, where he’s an indifferent rear end in a top hat who paid no regard to humanity and wiped out the demons because he found them aesthetically displeasing. The ambiguity is played up slightly in this adaptation, but not enough to detract from the overall theme of ‘love and compassion are not survival mechanisms, and the coldest, most ruthless fighter will win in a straight fight, but on the other hand, they’re the best things about us’. That message was in the manga, but also crops up a fair amount in other works by the writer of Crybaby, Ichiro Okouchi, and Yuasa himself did a whole show, Ping Pong, about the value of failure.
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Jan 6, 2018 11:09
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Monomythian posted:Manga Entertainment dubs are unironically superior, and I wish they still did them. I mean, I can see people thinking that terminally dweeby Good Boy Akira has a bit too much of a potty mouth. Maybe save it until he fuses with Amon.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:08
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Surprisingly Dope posted:can i watch this on the big tv with my parents around. How enthusiastic are your parents about hallucinogenic demonic murderfucking? ... how much do you want to find out about their enthusiasm for hallucinogenic demonic murderfucking?
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Jan 6, 2018 20:32
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Pootybutt posted:Having checked out some old devilman stuff in anticipation of Crybaby(a few of the hilariously dubbed 80's OAVs and the mostly-crappy 2000 flick Apocalypse of Devilman, which is somehow even grimmer than this; ALL of which is on youtube btw), I was surprised how relatively straight of an adaptation it was, give or take some details and a whole lot of modernizing. Surprised to the extent that I'm left unsure what the Crybaby angle adds to things when all is said and done, beyond a lil extra sentimentality. Not all the emotional bits land, often by a longshot, but it's nice it at least tries to have a heart. ‘Crybaby’ makes a lot more sense when you remember that the whole of the Devilman manga (and therefore the whole of this story as well) is a debate over the value of human emotion. It’s portrayed as a beautiful weakness, and we’re asked whether the beauty or the weakness matters more.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:29
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Davincie posted:its incredibly far from a straight adaption In specific plot beats and aesthetics, maybe. In tone, themes, and general arc, it’s pretty straight.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:32
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A Dapper Walrus posted:Is there no love for the wholesome rap kids? They were rather more immediately endearing than the delinquent gang from the manga. I liked their session of group therapy through rap early on.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:28
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eonwe posted:oh it actually inspired eva? The ending should have been a bit of a clue. Seriously, End of Evangelion takes a lot from the final chapters of the Devilman manga.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:04
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Desperado Bones posted:I'm not much in to anime. Like my watch list has been just jojo, and a few random ovas here and there. But did watch this. Because it looked so drat interesting. Nope - in the manga, Miki’s family die with her and the delinquents in the house siege. Taro presumably became a demon for the simple reason that lots of people were becoming demons as the invasion kicked off, as a deliberate terror tactic.
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Jan 8, 2018 15:40
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I’m actually quite surprised people are so down on this version of Jinmen. Having his parents get munched feels much more naturally personal than it happening to a random little girl who has suddenly always been his best friend, and bringing in his dad’s rebellion and Ryo egging him on was the start of an organic process that led to him going against Ryo and starting to recruit Devilmen, sowing the seeds for the finale much more naturally than the original manga did (where it was literally just ‘welp, Ryo’s betrayed me, there are probably other people like me out there, Imma recruit ‘em in a few pages and start a war’). All the changes they made only made it more part of the story, rather than a grim little aside that signposted the changing tone.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:45
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100 degrees Calcium posted:It was a little weird because up to that point I didn't really have a feel for who his parents were so I didn't have much reason to care, but the freakiest stuff to me in the show was when people would just brutalize their loved ones like when Taro munches on his mom so it was still pretty effective. Yeah, but it’s still an improvement on the original, where it was... well, as I described.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:59
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I don’t know enough about Initial D to get that joke.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:45
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Oh, hey, I just realised why the old Devilman cartoon exists in this show. It’s a sign that this isn’t the first loop. Devilman Lady establishes that whenever God resets the world, the latest story of Akira and Ryo becomes fiction in the reset. So this may actually be both a sequel and a remake.
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Jan 9, 2018 02:56
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dogsicle posted:i feel like even without metatexual stuff, the ending almost directly mirroring the events that start the show indicate this isn't the end for humanity. its a story ending at its lowest point, but i felt there was hope there. That there was going to be an ‘after’ was fairly clear. That there had been a ‘before’ is less obvious, and also interesting.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:17
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dogsicle posted:with the cyborg 009/devilman crossover, i dunno how it is executed in that particular series but the base premise of cyborg 009 has enough darkness that i don't think they're wildly miscast. all the cyborgs are people kidnapped and experimented on until they become horrible weapons and they have to reckon with that while trying to escape their captor and then prevent him from destroying the world via war. it dovetails with devilman's anti-war message and the sort of existential questions about personhood (the latter doesn't seem huge in either, but the resonance is there). plus devilman as a media franchise will always have that 70's tv series (and now crybaby) bringing some lightness and goofiness to it to temper the tits/gore/apocalypse stuff. I mean, the original manga had quite a lot of light and goofy, particularly in its first half.
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Jan 10, 2018 11:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Miko was in the manga but she was very diffrent. Her design was different too. That Devilman that was being experimented on and squirted out acid goop in the final episode was based on her original design. She wasn’t really much of a character, either, just an indicator of ‘oh, hey, there are other devilmen, and it kind of sucks to be them’. Miko actually has more in common with Jun’s swimming rival from Devilman Lady, although her arc ends... uhh... very differently. If you read the manga, you’ll find it pretty rough and bare-bones compared to Crybaby. A surprising amount of the flesh to the story has some sort of roots in Lady, but let’s just say that it soon becomes obvious why Yuasa asset-stripped that story for cool ideas rather than adapting it. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 22:53
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Bust Rodd posted:That’s weird I taught bible school for 6 years and never reconciled that “maintaining your faith” was the morally righteous way to live, but I was also teaching teens so the conversations never really got that in depth. We talked lot about your first point, bad things happen to good people and it’s not a punishment because the world doesn’t work in that binary way. The ending there is also bullshit because “my wife, friends and children all died but then I got new ones so it’s ok!” is a non-reward, considering that in general God doesn’t punish innocent people in the book of Job he is very deliberately setting out to ruin Job’s life over nothing, so it’s simply God solving a problem of his own creation. Ryo didn’t win. Akira’s death broke him, and God defeated him again. You see the reset process happening post-credits - it looks just like Satan’s first defeat at the very beginning of the show. The old Devilman show is a reference to a concept that first cropped up in Devilman Lady - every time God defeats Satan, he resets the world and Akira and Ryo’s adventures become fiction. It’s an ominous little warning - all this has happened before, all this will happen again - which is delivered upon with the reset at the end, as the old, ruined Earth becomes another moon.
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Jan 12, 2018 02:23
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Bust Rodd posted:I thought they were all old, is there new Lupin that isn’t as desaturated and washed out looking? Their use of color was another big turn-off but since were all talking about modern adaptations of 40 year old manga I’d be happy to give it a chance. I like heists and capers, I just hate the way every commercial makes it look. The recent Blue Jacket TV series (Season 4) is a good intro to the franchise. Lupin is very episodic, so don’t worry too much about continuity between shows/movies.
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Jan 12, 2018 02:25
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Alan_Shore posted:Lupin the Third loving Owns. I just watched the new series in Italy, it's awesome. Theme song rules too. He's the best. For reals, check this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBYYT1ekkeg
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Jan 12, 2018 02:58
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Alan_Shore posted:Yeah, but doesn't Violence Jack happen afterwards? So the reset happens sometime after that battle. Maybe in the loop that was the original Devilman. Crybaby, like Lady, seems to be a sequel disguised as a remake.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:09
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Bust Rodd posted:Is the “cycle” stuff explicitly laid out in the manga or OVA and just not in Crybaby? Or is it like 40 years of otaku/weaboo inference? It’s very explicit
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Jan 12, 2018 03:13
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Just finished watching and drat what a wild, wild ride. It’s the other way around. Devilman was massively influential.
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Jan 15, 2018 14:31
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StrixNebulosa posted:Technically yes, but you don't want an accurate adaptation of Devilman Lady or Violence Jack. There was a lot of sex stuff in this one, but my god the sex stuff in those mangas is not. Good. They also brought a lot of the more interesting stuff in Lady (the details of the loop system, the character who would become Miko, the devilmen’s struggle with their nature) into Crybaby anyway, so an adaptation of that one feels even more redundant unless you want to see Yuasa’s depiction of Hell (which would, admittedly, be cool) or wall-to-wall rape (which would be less cool - and for everyone who said the rape goes away in the second half, gently caress you no it doesn’t).
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Jan 15, 2018 15:46
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Bloodyshinta1 posted:I thought the manga ended with a panel of Satan in some kind of hydra/chimera form going ham and destroying the planet? Haven't read it in 10 years so kinda rusty It does not. The hydra/chimera is Zenon, his top lieutenant, who’s a major presence in the endgame but does not blow up the planet. The final panel is Satan weeping over Akira’s corpse as the forces of Heaven descend on him.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:28
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Well, TBH, it is rather more textually and explicitly accepting of gay people than either Devilman manga. Lady in particular got... weird on that count. Basically, in the original Devilman and Lady, being gay means that there’s some sort of opposite-sex identity within you. So in Devilman, Ryo has a crush on Akira because he’s secretly a hermaphrodite. In Lady, Ran and Jun are in love because they’re the two split halves of Satan, and Ran is actually the male half despite being magically disguised as a woman. Meanwhile, Jun’s rival, Aoi (who provided much of the character concept for this version of Miko) had her mind split between male and female as a defensive reaction to her stepfather’s sexual abuse (and between human and demon, but that’s another, separate story), and struggles throughout the series with her male half’s desire for Jun. Eventually, she grows a dick as a side-effect of her devilman powers, loses control, joins the bad guys, and rapes Jun before getting exploded. In that light, Miko, who’s definitely gay (or at least bisexual) with no bizarre gender stuff going on, is redeemed by her love for Miki, and dies a dignified, heroic death, is at least somewhat subversive. Similarly, Ryo’s love for Akira is moved away from being a natural function of who he is towards being a natural function of their relationship.
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Jan 17, 2018 11:00
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Smoking Crow posted:It could also be because traditionally, demons were hermaphroditic. Like how succubi collect semen and implant it in a woman by transforming into incubi, or how Baphomet has aspects of both males and females like breasts and a beard. This is, of course in contrast to angels who are sexless and genderless. Demons exist in a liminal state, which makes them both dangerous and alluring, fraught with danger. This idea of liminal states is why there's so much folk magic concerning doors, like jack-o-lanterns and carrying a bride over the doorway. So, in fact, Go Nagai is actually staying true to traditional demonolgy by having everyone attracted to people with hidden genders. That said, Lady in particular makes a point of heterosexual sex being the best sex. Akira finally bangs Ryo, but only his female half, Jun. Aoi’s rape of Jun is a strange, distressing aberration (but also totally authorial spank-bait, because Devilman Lady) that is presented as her only, doomed chance at pleasing her rival, because regular old lesbian sex isn’t an option, and while Ran and Jun do experiment, they can only truly satisfy each other once Ran realises who she truly is and turns back into a dude.
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Jan 17, 2018 11:37
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Blockhouse posted:That sounds loving rough There’s a reason the first warning Crybaby fans get about the broader franchise is ‘don’t read Lady’. I mean, it contains the genesis of a lot of stuff that showed up in Crybaby, but the difference is that Crybaby actually made it not-poo poo.
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Jan 17, 2018 14:17
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C-SPAN Caller posted:I normally get annoyed by killing your gays trope but considering basically everyone in the world but Satan dies and it happens so fast, I give this show a hard pass on being an actual example of the trope. I guess the Devilman equivalent is the manner of your death - do you get one that’s dignified and heroic or messy and humiliating? Of course, by that count, Miko does better than pretty much anyone else in the cast (Silene possibly excluded).
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Jan 18, 2018 20:30
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dogsicle posted:this bit about the ann podcast is bad Apparently, NutritiousSnack is a gator who tries to rile people up against stuff that they (and he) haven’t seen. So bear that in mind.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:44
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Davincie posted:gently caress, alligators can type now? And they have strong opinions about ethics in swamp journalism.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:57
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Schwarzwald posted:Well, Akira certainly can't be the bottom. God is certainly a less actively hostile figure this time around (in the manga, he explicitly obliterates Russia to prevent nuclear war, and doesn’t just turn demons who get too close into salt, but humans as well), but he’s not actively helpful, either. He very specifically does not lift a finger to save humanity, exemplified by the good Christians of Miki’s family dying horribly, and comes across instead as having a single-minded grudge against Satan and the legions of hell - note how the Earth is rejected and discarded at the beginning and end of the series. That also fits with the overall theme of emotion being a beautiful weakness - Satan describes him as ‘cold’, and it matches the logic of the show for the pure, focused, ruthless killer to come out on top, and for that to be a tragedy rather than a triumph.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:46
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well he did not blow up the Earth and reset it until Satan won and Humanity was gon. I assume the reason he did not act during the final battle is that he hoped Akira would win and save the last remnants of Humanity. The other, obvious interpretation is that he was just trying to deny the demons a powerful military advantage (nukes) before he laid the smackdown upon them. Again, he never actually, explicitly tries to help and protect humanity - his only actions are to kill demons. The only ones we see putting themselves on the line to protect people for no advantage to themselves are humans like the Makimuras and the rappers and devilmen like Akira and Miko. A Christian family literally get gruesomely murdered after God manifests on Earth, and the only people trying to help them are delinquents and half-demonic monsters.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:He did a rape. I think that the degree of consent in his... encounter... with Silene is really not a rabbithole we want to go down.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:44
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https://twitter.com/kgishfish/status/954052876862566400 Hauntingly accurate.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:46
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Personal_Nirvana posted:So about the ending...was God's intervention triggered by Ryo awakening as Satan, or the fall of humanity? Because the time-loop theory (is that canon?) implies that God has a massive gruge against Satan and tries to destroy him everytime he notices his presence. Earth is just colateral damage. Having never read Devilman Lady, does Nagai explain the "resets", or is something open to interpretation? The time-loop is Satan’s eternal punishment. He draws out his disobedient child and their legions, and then annihilates them in the moment of their victory, over and over again. There’s no higher goal, he just wants to hurt them for their betrayal. Crybaby doesn’t really go into that, but it’s at least not inconsistent with the events and themes in the show.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:54
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pasaluki posted:And watch out for the drugs at crazy underground sex parties. That bit, at least, is fairly simple. The whole thing that makes demons special is that they can merge with other animals and gain their abilities. They’re invading Earth by (mostly) merging with humans, but several of the merges backfire and leave the human in charge because they’re too inherently decent to be subsumed by their animal instincts. The Makimuras’ cat is exactly the same, except that she’s an unusually virtuous cat instead.
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Jan 21, 2018 00:02
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Compendium posted:The theme being make sure it's age-appropriate, consensual and have no demons and satanic parties involved? Hey, hey, hey, let’s not go crazy here.
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Jan 21, 2018 02:59
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