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Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

The Leck posted:

i don't remember who posted them originally, but here they are, and they're great:

they are very good

i printed them out and took them to interviews (in a folder along with my CVs) and asking these questions seemed to impress people

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Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Valeyard posted:

you can get that in scotland with 2 yhears experience, in places that are much cheaper to live in than London,

£80k in scotland? wat

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
wondering if it is time to start looking for a new job

downsides of current job:
- stressful as hell, i just got a burnout
- figgies are not very high by tech company standards (€65k)

upsides of current job:
- getting as much (paid) sick leave to fix said burnout
- money is better than all my peers at other companies
- got a promotion to management
- got lots of good experience for the CV
- 15-20m commute
- nice people

thinking about trying remote work for US companies to get $$$, or seeing if i can get an amazon/uber/etc job (1h commute tho)

hmm

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
the management promotion (software engineer to team lead of 5 engineers) came with a grand total of €100/mo extra (~2% raise) lmao

when I asked for more, they said that they would fix things in Dec with minimum of a 10% raise, but then I went off sick, so I don't yet know my 2020 comp. but i'm not holding my breath

quote:

basically, are you saying your pay is low even after a raise?

yes

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

you will end up writing lots of YAML. its not necessarily a bad thing. devops/SRE money is also pretty good these days, esp compared to dev roles (ive seen people paying significantly more).

imo, transitioning from infra/sysadmin/devops/SRE (whatever job title you get) to a traditional dev role won't be super easy unless you invest in writing lots of tooling (ie. do dev work as part of your infra role, you will need to force this, it wont happen organically)

my current job straddles infra and dev work, and personally I much prefer dev work, but neither is particularly better or worse. pick whichever you prefer honestly


Achmed Jones posted:

the on-call thing sucks, but any decent org will give you on-call pay, a reasonable schedule, etc

what sort of on-call pay is considered reasonable? i get ~1 day's pay for doing 1 (week-long) shift of on-call. it sure doesn't feel like much

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
that sounds pretty reasonable

i get ~1/15th of my hourly pay for on call, pretty comparable to your first scenario, so lmao owned i guess

oh and our rotations are way worse because we are understaffed!

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Achmed Jones posted:

as for your specific situation, I'd generally think that your rate is fine if they give you more if you actually get paged. otherwise it wouldn't be good for me at all. everybody's different though 🤷‍♀️]

on top of our ~1 day's pay per (week long) shift, we get paid 1.5x (weekday) or 2x (weekend) our hourly rate for pages, and get the hour(s) back as hoilday. you get anywhere from zero pages (most weeks) to 10 pages (bad weeks). each page is fixable in ~30 mins, minimum paid increment is 30m, so the actual "per page" pay is piddling for being woken up at 3am, you will get :20bux:.

based on what shadowhawk posted above, at Google you get 5 times as much as us. lol. compared to another friend at a similarish org, he gets 3 times as much.

i guess i will try my hand at renegotiating this with my boss, because we are getting paid literally €2 per hour of on call which is ridiculous


a cyberpunk goose posted:

i am on call as a professional dev but our team is big enough that i only have to do it for 1 week at a time every few weeks
i have to do 1 week per month, and for the last 6 months I was covering for another team and doing 2 weeks per month. lol :rip:

1 week every 2 months is reasonable, imo

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

PIZZA.BAT posted:

i felt like the convo was heading south after the riddle & spring batch question so i tried to steer it towards all my experience in, you know, building actual mission-critical database clusters and all of the insane details you have to be aware of to prevent them from spontaneously bursting into flames. nope. you didn’t know spring batch when you never loving claimed to while interviewing with a nosql company. fail. interviewing is garbage

welp. this is very lovely.

did they justify why they were asking sprint batch questions when you never claimed to know that?

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i got promoted to an engineering manager role 6 months ago, managing 4 teams with 25 people, 2nd promotion in 3 years at this company. boss is a good mentor. full remote after COVID, short commute if i feel like going in

just hitting 6 figgies total comp (on call pay, bonus, etc) for EU which aint so bad, and will get a ~20% of annual salary (cash, pretax) in Q4 from stocks (megacorp, so fairly stable in value).

on the other hand, im trying to unravel many years of lovely/nonexistent management, everything is on fire pretty much constantly, and it aint gonna get better until at least end of this year when i've hired shitloads more people and we start fixing all our fires. the rest of the company is a burnout factory too

do i
a) hold out until end of this year, 1 year of manager experience, cash out my stocks, and hope things are better by then, but potentially probably burn out
b) run for the hills

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i am rapidly burning out as a result of the constant fires that i have to mop up, yes

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

does that mean you have 25 direct reports, or is there another layer in there?
there’s another layer in between (would be completely unmanageable if not, ha)

quote:

and you need to hire more and stuff is on fire all the time?
yes and yes. need to hire another ~50% so 12 people this year. fires and hiring is basically all I do these days

quote:

I don't know the EU comp situation so can't really answer your question but that is a Not Great situation to be in. Having a good mentor is nice.
interesting article on comp actually: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/

my company is in the middle bucket. so getting more figgies is definitely doable, only question is if the bigcos have bad work life balance too

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

raminasi posted:

i am very curious about whether the cloud practitioner cert affects your outcomes given that it seems more oriented towards PMs and other less-technical folks who want to be able to understand the words their engineers are using

as a hiring manager for cloud infra positions (amongst other poo poo) i personally don't care about certs at all, i've done some of the prep and its basically "can you remember a bunch of bullshit details about AWS services" (not useful) as opposed to "can you build poo poo on AWS/$cloud provider of choice" which is fairly easy to test in an interview and very easy to test with a short assignment

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
as a hiring manager, i am bored of doing management and want to go back to IC positions before its too late for me, been doing pure mgmt ~1yr and team lead (50/50 coding/lead) for 1yr 3mo before that

some people say its good to have been a manager for a bit and then an IC, some people say it works against you, guess its time to find out

fortunately this guy (http://techpays.eu/) seems to have done wonderful work for NL/EU salaries and figgies are finally on the cards for EU people

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

hobbesmaster posted:

but you actually saw the resume with the “useless” cert because the resume wasn’t discarded by an automated process

fortunately my company doesn't use any automated processes to filter resumes. unfortunately the replacement for the automated process is me


The Fool posted:

there’s a few different ways to do it
1. home lab it, spend your own time and money to develop the skills then talk them up in the interviews

2. get a job with a training budget that willing to invest in their employees

3. home lab it on company time, get a job with downtime so your e not wasting your weekends on dumb work stuff

4. lie


this, and i have also hired people who are great engineers otherwise but their only ding is no cloud knowledge, figured they can learn on the job. worked well and they were some of the smartest and most motivated guys. i also hired as mediors/seniors, not juniors. there is hope friend

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
you're a very lucky interviewer if you get to choose between stellar candidates

my interviewing experience is pretty depressing, about 10% of the candidates i talk to are communicative/knowledgable/enthusiastic enough to have a good conversation with, they invariably get offers

had a guy the other day who was monologuing incoherently about his projects for 5-10 mins and would definitely have gone on for 20 mins if we didn't interrupt him

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
50% of the guys i interview have 0, so two is a good candidate

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

cinci zoo sniper posted:

we have one sales guy in our company who is rumoured to outearn the rest of salespeople combined (we have nice sales splits)

our sales guys apparently make multi-millions per year which is ~15x the average computer toucher, and we get Jack poo poo despite being the poor bastards that make the poo poo they sell

the only consolation is that we are in the EU, so have decent work-life balance, US guys, especially sales ones, have an amusing tendency of sending invites for 7pm EU time meetings at 5am US time. Needless to say they are declined, repeatedly

got my first 2 talent screens at quite reputable companies today, hoping i can make something of it! going back from eng management to coding, i reckon this will be a negative for some companies but a plus for others, we shall see. upside of eng mgmt is i have interviewed like a hundred candidates this year,, which will hopefully translate to good results on the other side of the table

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Achmed Jones posted:

your work history tells what you did not how you did it: increased performance x%, decreased cost y%, increased velocity, changed the org, shipped the product that made $xMM, whatever. do not mention technologies

your technologies go in the skills section. if you used web forms to make a hundred mil, say "made a hundred mil" in the work history and "web forms" in the skills. if you don't want to work with web forms, don't put that in your skills section

all personal preference of course, but my preferred approach is to blend the two. "Saved company XX% ($Ym / annually) by designing and implementing new FooService, built in Python and Terraform" or some poo poo like that. It feels more legit to me that way and then gives interviewers an opportunity to dive in deeper on the intersection of your achievements and technology in said project. which ultimately helps you.

separate skill dump at the end is fine too, but highlighting a few of those skills for selected projects is nice and at least shows you're not just a bullshit saleseman. imo

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

carry on then posted:

imagine actually being able to put numbers to the features you implement. that would be crazy.

depends on the company, but chances are your boss or their boss will manage at least some of the budget and thus know at least some of the numbers associated with whatever you're building, whether its product sales, reducing the AWS bill, total revenue for all the customers you manage, cost of $thing + margin on $thing and number of customers paying for $thing, etc etc etc

i just act interested (i am interested, its good for my CV) when they mention anything number related, ask them to dive deeper or share more etc, "huh verycool, aren't we doing a great job as a team, that's nice", and obviously your boss will agree and explain more about it because its good for their success and probably also their bonus :toot:

then write it down and stick it on your CV, ideally changing any money stuff to the nearest order of magnitude ($10s of millions as opposed to 56.3 millions) obviously

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

TheFluff posted:

try to connect it to some number like "team velocity" or "percent of CI runs failing" or heck even something like "engineer job satisfaction metrics" or whatever. a lot of these numbers will be extremely subjective metrics that probably don't really mean anything, but just having a number adds a lot of legitimacy to a claim.

agreed, it's simultaneously bullshit but also not. developer productivity is super important.

if your'e stuck in a situation where you can only deploy once a week and it always fucks up every time, being the guy that initiates a proper CI/CD setup (implementing the joel test on software in tyool 2021 lol) then this is not only extremely valuable (your $1-2m/year per team is now doing something useful instead of loving around editing config files in vim, deploying, testing, retrying, repeat, ask me how i know) but you can also quantify it: X guys across Y teams deploying Z times due to my changes vs P before.

any hiring manager worth their salt will recognize this too without too much effort on your part, if they don't, 🚩

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

carry on then posted:

i mean that's the problem, they don't know either. all we hear from sales/finance is overall revenue from our umbrella group every quarter. it's not really ever broken down, and even our chief architects don't know for sure who's using what. this is extra compounded by us working on a free developer tool aimed at developers who build apps that run on our appserver, so it's extremely nebulous.

hmm then you are a bit hosed my friend. i guess dollar numbers are tier one, if you don't have dollar numbers then you gotta go for whatever other numbers you've got. unless you work for a complete yolo joker company they probably make money somehow and the managers get bonuses based on some metrics (however stupid) so if you can figure out what those metrics are, that might at least help

if all fails you can always make it up, as long as the numbers are vaguely believeable nobody will give a flying gently caress, it's more the difference between the hiring manager going "oh yeah cool man" vs "yeah whatever who cares" when they skim your CV, that's all you're aiming for

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
if they pay you the big bucks, why the hell not

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
current interview status: talent screens are going great but 1st interviews seem like they will be challenging (haven't done any yet) but answering questions on stuff like GC and data structures etc is somewhat out of my experience, i've mostly worked in python (where data structures is "use a hashmap" and GC isn't a thing), and the limits that you face are rarely algo related but more system design/scaling/dev productivity/cloud bullshit

starting to get impostor syndrome :ohdear: or at least worried that my skillset aint what they're testing for

then again the TA people seem to like me and i can talk a good talk so who the gently caress knows!!!

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Corla Plankun posted:

If you work at a company that exits successfully you don't have to work anymore. Anywhere.

*if you don't get hosed over, which can often be the case

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

hobbesmaster posted:

:rubby:

only if you’re a founder

even for founders too lol. some horror stories floating around where company sells for 1b or whatever, investors have preferred shares and get the first $X of any sale which conveniently happens to be > the sale amount, and the founders don't get a penny

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

qhat posted:

With what tech salaries are like these days you can achieve this within 10 years anyway

even in non-FAANGs and non-bay area if you are lucky

e.g. even in western EU saving 50k a year is 0.5m after 10y, stick that in S&P 500 and you can retire with more than the median salary annually, comfortably, if you play your cards right

thats my plan/hope at least, hopefully at least semi-retire at 40

e: you edited to remove FAANGs but seems we agree!

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

cinci zoo sniper posted:

i love to get pair programming tests with some obvious non-python engineer who leads me into something nominally asking for a binary search, that can probably be bruteforced with dicts and then both of us sit there with “what now” faces as they ask me to optimise, and i tell them the lookup is o(1)


lol big O poo poo is something i am also terrible at because i studied physics not compsci, so i usually handwave this poo poo away with "uhh IO or network is probably slower, yolo" but really dict lookups are o(1)?

themoreyouknow.gif

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i suppose also the reason you never loving need to bother with binary searches or any of the other algo bullshit* is because 99% of the time in python a dict is good enough for most of your problems and some other layer (DB, frontend, whatever) is way slower, and premature optimization is the root of all evil etc etc

which is the nice thing about python as a lang, and kind of the point of using it


*Except dynamic programming and recursive stuff for some hacker-rank/leetcode toy problems, that bit me when i tried them

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
how much do you reckon you can get away with in interviews by saying "yeah well i would aim for an XYZ approach (hashmaps, always hashmaps) but in my professional experience CPU/mem optimization has never been the bottleneck, only ABC" and elaborate on how you would solve various other bottlenecks

or is it just a crapshoot of company/interviewer/question and hope you get lucky (i presume the latter)

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
cool, decent advice, thanks. fortunately i think i am good at reading the room so that will help. i can probably blag away my weak point (algorithmic knowledge) against my strong points (running a PaaS cloud at moderate scale and all that associated operational knowledge) and present it in a way that works.

if they are looking for just algo knowledge and only knowledge i'm likely hosed but like you say you want to avoid managers/colleagues who lack said nuance

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Arcsech posted:

high risk/high reward maneuver i'd guess. depends on whether the role you're interviewing for has CPU/mem bottlenecks (if it does... bad call), and whether the interviewer is one of those people who goes way too hard on algorithm/performance poo poo because they like to feel clever

does much stuff ever have CPU/mem bottlenecks? or only in certain areas? IME i've never had to worry about that p much ever, the only times CPU/mem became relevant it was because we were doing something Very Stupid elsewhere, and you do the short term "thrown lots of money at it and scale" fix and long-term rearchitecture to something not stupid fix. but idk how much my experience here is relevant to other situations,. for reference: i've done mostly backend work, all cloud, not FAANG scale

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

Steve Jorbs posted:

I would tell them no even if it wasn’t illegal.

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i actually implemented sleepsort in production once to try and shard some horrible job that was taking ages (for other stupid reasons) based on UUID across a ~day interval

was quite happy with that one

(sadly didn't solve the problem in the end, because the rest of our stack sucked)

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i applied to 3 different tier-below-faangs 1st Dec and the processes seem fast as hell despite being xmas, talent screens within a week, 1st round within a week of talent screen for 2 outta the 3

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
i got the paid leetcode for a month thing to up my confidence too, they have tagged questions for a couple of the companies i'm going for and the questions actually seem fairly easy by leetcode standards which is nice

i wonder how likely it is that you'll get a leetcode question tagged with $company in a real interview tho, seems too good to be true. (then again i ask candidates fizzbuzz in every interview i do, and still a good 30-50% fail, and like 20% have even heard of it, so who knows)

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
government salaries are lol here, altho the "working tax free for the EU" sounds kinda nice. altho i think you have to live/work in brussels for that one?

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

cinci zoo sniper posted:

eu offered me 320/day brutto for a non-senior data engineer position at an unnamed structural unit. with latvian government that would’ve been 53-64/day

if you work for eu from brussels you pay no taxes, which for mid-senior specialists means 80-120k/year taken home. don’t look at rents around berlaymont


lol so like 5.5x local govt, nice

80 - 120k takehome pay is p dece, about the same as the tier 3 companies are paying here in NL

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

cinci zoo sniper posted:

why are tiers ascending in prestige

lol good point

more money == bigger number?

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
supposed to have an interview tomorrow but the company froze hiring because of a budget thing lol. (the company is huge so, i guess not terrible). get to proceed with a different position with more coding instead at the same level, so, seems fine

more time to grind leetcode!

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Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

cinci zoo sniper posted:

on my part, ive got 3 executive reviews in the next 5 business days, so im starting to cancel the small queue of technicals i have at hand, as it’s increasingly improbable that any of them would be necessary, or an improvement over what I’m very likely to get

very nice

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