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Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Coolguye posted:

The inherent problem is that the game is just not set up to be practically navigable without Blink or Far Reach.

The basic set pieces still work. Attacking enemies and conquering areas still works in a very Thief-like manner and that feels nice. But all the connective tissue in the game, the exploration and the positioning prior to disassembling an area, is so onerous it just completely ruins the experience for me.

Having just finished a Flesh & Steel Shadow run, I can attest to this. There were a few points where I had fun working out how to dismantle an encounter with nothing but a crossbow and a severed arm, or following paths with my eyes and figuring out "Okay, I can climb to there, make a running jump to there, sidle along that ledge, hop to that lamppost..." and they do take special care to make sure it's possible to navigate without them, but 95% of the time I was just thinking "Ugh, this would be so much more fun with Blink or Agility." I lost count of the number of times I'd scale a stack of boxes and then get stuck under the overhang I was trying to climb next because the game thought I was trying to crawl under it. I actually enjoyed Dishonored 1's Mostly Flesh & Steel run better, because you still have Blink.

I mostly just did the run for the achievement, and to see what happens if you roleplay as a hardline Abbey supporter. Spoiler (not spoiler): You're still a heretic.

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Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
You just stole his sleep aids and knocked him unconscious, let the man keep your money.

One thing I really like about the loot distribution is that they put sleep darts on a lot of bedside tables (or bedside trash piles etc), like these people are just jabbing themselves with feathery needles to get to sleep at night. You can always theorize that much like war medals and paintings turning themselves into coinage as soon as they hit your pocket, that you're actually finding sleeping pills and tinctures and bottling them in your pocket alchemy workbench, but I like the idea of someone just climbing into bed, stabbing a dart into their scalp, and zonking out.

Something I just thought about with regards to the whole honor culture discussion is that the culture we're seeing in the Empire right now is right on the cusp of the divide between medieval times and the industrial era. Landowners are beginning to realize it's not how much land you have, it's what can be done with that land. The Duke of Serkonos is evolving quite handily into a late-19th-century robber baron because Serkonos is sitting on these rich silver mines, and we're beginning to see a new layer of aristocracy rising from the working class. Meanwhile, those who cling purely to the old aristocratic model, like Ramsey, are having to scrape and claw to regain shreds of their lost position.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Cythereal posted:

I've only watched the low chaos Emily run so far, but the developers of this game confirmed that it was deliberate that Wyman's gender is never specified. They intended Emily to be a bisexual character, but felt it was impossible to have that come up organically in the course of the game. Wyman, who may be a man or may be a woman, was their solution.

It may just be my heteronormal upbringing speaking, but I always assumed from tone and word choice in their letters that Wyman was a man. Still, I appreciate the intent the developers had, and applaud their decision not to have Emily flirting with everything on two legs, which tends to be the way designers convey bisexuality.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Feb 18, 2018

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
That guard sawing is clearly assigned to boarding up that room that they were playing cards in as punishment for being caught sneaking off to play cards in it (And probably nap, which is probably the bigger no-no). I liked that touch, it was a nice piece of atmospheric storytelling that didn't seem like it needed a note nearby saying "Private Tigwhistle, you're in the poo poo." Or at least it didn't seem to until y'all expressed mystery and confusion.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I have nothing concrete to add to the discussion, but I giggled a little listening to Jindosh's post-lobotomy babble. I might be a tiny bit of a psychopath.

So I've started a new run of this, and done something I should have done a while ago: Given myself permission to have fun. I'm still aiming for low chaos, but I'm not gonna try and maintain Ghost or avoid deaths entirely. Instead, I'm going to gently caress with guards to the maximum allowable extent of the physics engine. After my initial Clean Hands run, the High Chaos everyone-must-die run, and the Flesh & Steel Ghost run (Why did I do that), it is remarkably liberating. Some highlights:

A Long Day In Dunwall:

I swear I have only the vaguest idea how this happened. I was trying to hit one of the guards near the bar on the docks with fish parts (By hurling them from the balcony near the Rat Plague holdover), gave up after running out of chunks, and went about my business. When I got to the docks, I was mystified to find no-one around. I heard one guard yell "I'll back you up!" but had no idea where he was. After looking around, I found these guys on one of the ramps down into the water, having apparently shoved one of their own off. And of course, I threw a grenade at them.

Edge of the World:
I had an immense amount of fun with the Far Reach upgrade that hauls enemies to you. I was expecting something like Knife of Dunwall-style slowly pulling them into your arms, not sending them screaming and flying over your head. I also sidestepped those two guards playing cards over a flammable bottle by using Bend Time, grabbing the bottle, chucking it off the side of the stairwell, then hugging both of the men. The three guards by the telescope on the third-floor balcony got a time stopped stun mine, which left me with an unconscious guard with an active stun mine stuck to his face, so I hauled him up to Hypatia's office and threw him at the two men guarding it.

The Clockwork Mansion:
I found a corrupt bonecharm that makes Far Reach pull people silently. It makes Far Reach take more mana, but screw mana, EVERYONE gets to fly! I hosed up a room in the gaurd post in Upper Aventa, leading to a full eight guards in the room. I momentarily panicked before remembering I was a magic assassin with a wide variety of tools at my disposal, popped time stop, and planted a stun mine where I had been about to receive swords in the face. This was the first time I'd been able to buy the Monkey Wrench sword upgrade, and hoo boy is it ever satisfying to actually assassinate those robots. Also, I knocked Jindosh unconscious using his own bottled fingers. Which I hadn't even been aware of until skool mentioned them. e: Also, I discovered that witches will just teleport out of the Far Reach pull. :(

Also my Strong Arms x4 bonecharm has a drawback: Eating food hurts me. That puts a crimp in the kleptomaniac vacuum cleaner routine.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 4, 2018

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I should not have taken a bite of my food just as you started playing football.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

TheLastRoboKy posted:

She had an ablative throat.

"She cut my throat, but luckily I was wearing a second, smaller throat underneath."

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Foreverially crossbow.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Those elevator gates must only repulse corpses (or "corpses") to prevent incredibly hosed-up ragdolls (As opposed to the acceptably hosed-up ragdolls produced by stuffing a dozen men in a crate or closing someone in a window), because I've gotten crushed by one closing before. Although in fairness I DID wind up outside the elevator.

And I'm mildly disappointed you went to all that trouble to bring Jindosh's fingers into the lab and keep them safe while dealing with the clockworks, then failed to knock him out with them.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I always manage to wake up the officer on the top floor of that guard post, because I always try to be clever and use the alarm clock in the interrogation chamber to lure a guard out of the office with the whale oil socket. Instead, the clock draws the officer down instead.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I'm going to name my next cat Miaud.

e: But really, that little hidey-hole, as well as one in your room, made me think "Oh, they've set this up as dungeon-layout, there's probably going to be an event later where guards storm the boat! That'll be fun." I was only mildly disappointed that wasn't the case.

e2: The only thing I want out of this LP is more. More murder. More windblast. More science. More clowning. Bring a speedrunner in and make him do a Flesh & Steel run. I'd say a glitchless run, but let's be honest, the glitches are some of the best parts.

Dareon fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 4, 2018

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
FYI, the Silver Spike is the name of the local gossip rag, I think the miner's lung disorder you were referring to is just called gray lung or something.

From piecing together the various diary entries and letters, I'm pretty sure the Oraculum is tapping into the actual visions that the actual Oracular Order is making, and they can only see what's happening at the present moment. So seeing the massacre of the Overseers at Dunwall Castle is useful in an informative sense, but audio transmission technology is still on the level of speaking tubes, so it's not actionable.

That said, plopping a stun mine in that central sigil and then triggering the Oraculum is a great way to deal with the witches in that room. I cheesed the final boss in a similar manner.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
"Dreadful Wale, which is an anagram for..."

Me: "It's not an anagram for anything, is it? It's just a cool multiple play on wor-"

"Farewell Daud!"

Me: "...Outsider's crooked cock!" :aaa:

So y'all just gonna be spoiling that revelation left and right, huh. I don't know, maybe I've played too many of these games, or not enough, but Meagan's cagey attitude to doling out her past just had me thinking "Oh, cool, a mysterious backstory, I do hope this goes somewhere." and it did, and it was a nice nod, but my only real problem with it was in high chaos you're not allowed to react appropriately. She just plain won't tell you, and when you go find out for yourself she vanishes into the aether when you get back.

---

One thing that bothers me about this mission is Meagan's hint about the Abbey maybe being helpful. It sort of is, because they do have a map and the hint about the existence of the Oraculum, but that's not really helpful. Helpful would be being able to tip them to witchcraft and provoking a full-on raid on the Conservatory as a distraction. I have a similar issue with the next level, where they've taken great pains to set up rival factions and not given you any opportunity to make them interact.

---

Before you Far Reached him in the dick, I was imagining that Overseer waking up and going "Oh, that was a great nap. My candles seem to have gone out. ...I'm almost certain I locked that door. ...Did someone take my grenades? Hey, guards, did you see anyo-" and just boggling at the completely empty streets.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Yeah, point, I didn't exactly register surprise when that conversation happened. More the satisfaction you get when a piece of music comes back around to the tonic. "Oh, hey, that's wrapped up nicely."

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Alkydere posted:

Catching up, watching SCIENCE! Emily's episode and y'all talking about Delilah and how she's got the whole "why doesn't everyone love me?" complex and I realized why screwing with her/ruining her plans is so good.

Delilah wants to be a Mary Sue. Dishonored 2 lets the player ruin the hopes and dreams of a Mary Sue. All because we won't love her like everyone else does.

"And I was the long-lost child of Emperor Dumbledore so you should all praise me and make up a new Hogwarts House just for me."

Now that I think on it, Delilah is very goffik.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
"Don't live in the city, live in a shack in the woods and don't be the Unabomber."

As someone who lives in a shack in the woods and may or may not be the Unabomber, gently caress that noise. Do you know what happens every day in a shack in the woods? You're alone with your thoughts. Your horrible, horrible thoughts.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
The Outsider doesn't respond to music because My Chemical Romance doesn't exist in this universe yet.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I don't know if this is my system or your video, but on my tablet the video freezes at 24:46. Audio continues to play. On my laptop I can't watch at all because Firefox doesn't recognize the video type.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I never knew those levers for the chandeliers existed, I would always do weird-rear end jumps and eventually feel like I really EARNED that bonecharm.

This level's mechanic is so cool, honestly you could make an entire game out of that mechanic and I wouldn't complain. And, like, it gets better once you discover they had to make basically three versions of the same mansion, running in parallel in the same loaded zone. At least I assume that, since there's no load times, you're basically hopping between different areas on the same "map," like how anyone shown on a video screen in Half-Life 2 is actually off in a little room away from the rest of the map. Although I think they cheat it a little bit by having the back garden be the only place with three actual states, and once you turn on Good Present it tells the actual mansion to unload all the entities in Bad Present Mansion and start running entities in Good Present Mansion. At least that's how I'd do it. I should see if there's a Boundary Break for Dishonored 2.

On the topic of Meagan's right to bear arms (Or is that bearing a right arm), do you have any plans to do Death of the Outsider? There's not a whole lot that changes based on lethal/nonlethal, but you could definitely show off a gentle/ruthless dichotomy.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Brigmore Manor was literally flooded in places, and some upstairs floors were completely gone. I'm not saying you're wrong (Specifically I don't know how a crawlspace appeared in a steel vault wall), but Brigmore was definitely in worse condition.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
WAKE UP COOLGUYE YOU'VE BEEN ASLEEP FOR TWO DAYS

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
So now that you've mentioned Alpha Protocol, that's a game that could benefit from this kind of treatment, too. Because I've had at least four extremely different games of that.

Going off-topic is one of my pet peeves in Let's Plays, like I can't really enjoy Game Grumps or Super Best Friends because they spend so little time talking about the game, but I don't expect someone to spend the entire gameplay talking about the game, that would just get boring. Sometimes the off-topic bits are some of the best, though, like when Stumpt got into a heated argument about what constitutes a sandwich.

skool what the gently caress

Dusty-lung, that's the miner's disease y'all keep calling by the name of the local gossip mag.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Coolguye posted:

I still have a little lingering cough from the lung damage I sustained from 6 weeks of intense hacking,

High five, lingering respiratory damage buddy. I spent five hours with a piece of chicken lodged in my esophagus (Two of those were at the hospital), coughing up the saliva that kept pooling atop it threatening my airway and occasionally triggering my vomit reflex. Had a very worrying cough for weeks afterward, now it's down to acceptable levels with the minor issue of coughing up an ounce of phlegm every morning. You obviously know how to care for yourself, any advice I give would be redundant or actively harmful.

e: Regarding the graceful flips of animal death, one thing that Alan Wake does well is ragdolls, because whenever an enemy dies, it treats the enemy as if it was hit by a bowling ball instead of a dinky revolver bullet. And the dogs in this game must have lower mass than the guards, so your physics pushes will have a consummately greater effect on them.

e2: Also when you mentioned Shadowhand, I was like "Agh, am I about to get spoiled for the RPG solitaire game I haven't finished yet?" But no, you meant the Dark Brotherhood, and yes, that questline is badass. And I kept my dead drop notes, so when the reveal popped, I went back and was like "Oh, yeah, the tone is entirely different. Also the loving font, how the gently caress did I miss that?"

Dareon fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 13, 2019

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
re: not noticing missing fingers, I didn't notice one of the contestants on the Great British Baking Show was missing half of her hand until like the quarter-finals. Hosts didn't call attention to it, she functioned just as well as everyone else, it was like "how am I so blind, but good on them for not waving it in our face."

Don't feel bad skool I got your joke. The CK2 thread would have been a better audience.

The timing (of skool's audio only, maybe?) was off a bit, it was really weird hearing you laugh at coolguye for loving up throws while he was nowhere near an enemy.

There's a book in Death of the Outsider that LAMs the Outsider. In a very "here is my ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL Nipples the Enchilada" way, which was goddamn hilarious.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

David D. Davidson posted:

I minght have found out both these things accidentally when I was trying to out crazy Skool. MY plan was to knock out Ramsey, cover him in broken glass by throwing every glass and bottle at him, bury him under a pile of dead bodies, knock his men unconscious, decapitate them, position their bodies on chairs and sofas in the safe room and hide their heads in with the gold and food. I got distracted when I accidentally killed him during phase 2 of this plan.

When/if we get to Death of the Outsider, I've got some things in that vein to show off.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Regarding art and art direction, I am still salty because two years ago, I was contracted to create a few monsters for a Pathfinder setting, complete with art direction. I had no contact with the artists myself, but I provided detailed descriptions, complete with links to appropriate reference material. One was a plant-based creature, and I described the inflorescence and surrounding petals of a titan arum on a writhing root structure. What I got back looked like a dildo on four legs. Another was a crustacean that combined the claws of a pistol shrimp with the casing of a caddisfly. Here I provided links to albums full of appropriate pictures, such that you could not fail to understand what was requested. I got back a cockroach/centipede that some kids had festooned with fishing line. The middlemen said it was because the artist had english as a second language, but I have a hard time believing that my instructions, complete with web links, could be interpreted so poorly that you fail to understand that the final product should bear some resemblance to the pictures linked. Also I still haven't gotten paid, because the last news I heard was they're holding off publishing until they can get the book converted into three other systems.

https://www.shacknews.com/article/79926/why-sid-meiers-name-is-on-all-his-games Supposedly Robin Williams had a hand in it, but comments say there was some legal kerfuffle over the name Civilization (Which doesn't explain Sid Meier's Pirates!, Gettysburg, Railroads!, or anything else). Meier himself says it was simply for name recognition so fans of his flight sim could find this weird pirate game he was making. Pick your pony.

I can't hear anything about Farcry 2 without thinking of DEADLY AFRICANIZED WATER.

The Howler you took the apartment key from wasn't the actual owner of the place, the owner just gave her the key because she was a nice old lady who takes soup to the sick and lets the nice gang members have a safe place to sleep. Which I thought was a really nice touch, because your main targets and the Heart tell you a lot about how everyone in the Isles is a massive jizzwad who's better off as a component of your modern art piece with a lot of red in the composition. And here's this nice old lady who, very importantly, you have no opportunity to interact with.

123? That's the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage. I actually don't think I ever got that safe, because I would have remembered that incredibly stupid silvergraph.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Oh my god I just got something that had bothered me in Death of the Outsider. So you get a side job to steal the Duke's crappy self-portrait, right? And there's a letter next to it talking about how they had it tested for authenticity and the paint samples match other pieces painted by the Duke, but they can't explain why it's so goddamn lovely.

I never loving twigged to the fact that it must be the loving double painting the other ones. Mostly because I never saw him over on the terrace painting the hound or the bowl of fruit.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
I took pains to write down cool graffiti I saw when I visited Seattle. Usually it is just people tagging their name, but there were a few cool ones. One that stuck with me was "Say it again. This time break the skin." Another was just "WHY?" scrawled across a road closure notice that still managed to convey a sense of plaintiveness. Plaintivity? And someone had written beat poetry on a row of abandoned houses exhorting the homeless to move into them, it was the coolest sociopolitical statement I've ever seen.

I have never heard pruno referred to as squawky, skool, sorry. Maybe we need one of these for prison wines.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
That not-quite-dead overseer has a different line if you're running Flesh & Steel, but somewhere Emily remarks that the Abbey would still consider her a heretic even after turning down the Outsider's gift. Because you are still consorting with him and using bonecharms and poo poo.

For my first playthrough, I dealt with Delilah the same way you did, only slightly more elegantly (after getting stabbed in the face three times because I failed to get the gimmick to this fight). Plant the mine, shoot the clone on the throne, suddenly I am surrounded by twitching witches.

The theme of trapping Delilah in her painting is... I want to say it's different enough between the two instances, but that's because I'm coming at it from a very mystical angle. The plot Daud foiled was to plant herself in Emily, using the painting as the focus for a Possession effect. Instead, she was placed into a tree she'd done a study of. The World As It Should Be is a wider-reaching reality alteration, although if I was going to translate it into a more familiar milieu I'd just call it Mass Charm Person. Trapping her within it is perhaps the kindest thing you have ever done as a nonlethal elimination. It's what she truly desires, and no one else gets hurt.

I had a joke to make regarding Delilah and entitlement and how anyone who feels entitled will always gently caress up any power they're given, but I only really have the punchline and it's too late in my day to work from the start to the punchline, so here's the punchline: Next time someone asks to speak to your manager, punch them in the face and choke them out.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
When you get your powers from Sheogorath instead of the Outsider.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Dreadful Wale definitely stands on its own if you don't know the anagram, because it is like three plays on words at once. There's the obvious, dreadful wail, it sounds like "whale" (I think a thug comments on it with that misreading on the docks), and boats have wales. It's a kind of board placed to prevent wear or absorb strain. Gunwales are the most well-known. Also Duad Lleweraf sounds like someone from Wales. :v:

I feel bad for dogs unless and until they try to eat my face. The Bard's Tale had a good dog, too. It gets killed as a dramatic moment. Then, because the entire game is a piss-take of dramatic moments, you get to resurrect it as a cool skeleton dog like two scenes later.

The nubblies on Delilah's lapels always struck me as fungal. Stick up too much to be feathers, not defined enough to be leaves or petals, gotta be fungus.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
The sequel power reset is always amusing to me. Sometimes you get to keep a QoL upgrade that was unlockable in the first game (and of course they design puzzles around it now, because why would they not), but I enjoy hearing them jump through hoops to justify losing all your poo poo. Megaman Legends 2 had the funniest one, where Roll just goes "Oops, sorry, I sold all your weapons to fix our ship!" We can only assume here, though. With Corvo, sure, he had those cool sneaky boots and the reinforced doublet and whatever else, but that's hanging in the closet in his chambers, for the ceremony he's wearing his dress blacks. Emily never had that stuff to begin with, she probably stripped the lace off some party duds to make her rooftop suit.

Man, even in my high chaos playthroughs I wouldn't have thought to kill Grampy Sokolov. Meagan, sure, but not hauling her down and showing her to him, either.

I used to watch Bob Ross on like a 4-inch black and white TV, so some of the artistry was lost, but it was still a great learning tool. It's probably only a mild exaggeration to say everything I know about making art I learned from him. (Somewhere, my art teacher breaks out in a cold sweat)

Emily picks up a dang spyglass way back in chapter one when you're leaving the vault. Doesn't explain how she can use it with both hands full, though.


First image result. :effort:

If you Time Stop before opening the door, you have enough time to run in and disarm the launchers before they fire.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
It begins.

I actually did a whole lot of science fuckery in DotO in anticipation of you guys doing this, took lots of cool screenshots... But never uploaded them and then lost my computer in a wildfire back in August.

For this level, I carefully stored every corpse in the dumpster just outside the building. Then I threw an incendiary bottle in. Turns out the game will only burn a few bodies at a time.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Give us the science and wipe away the debt!

Wait, wrong game.

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Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
In the further adventures of Awesome Science That Got Lost In A Fire, I painstakingly hauled every guard, civilian, and dog into that bloodfly cell, most of them unconscious, artfully arranging things like putting the taxidermist and the guard officers on top of the crates.

Much like flaming bottles only igniting a few bodies at a time, bloodflies will only infest a few bodies at a time, although they will eventually get all of them. I also learned it is way too goddamn easy to break the glass in that door, either from dropping a dude next to it, closing the door on someone's boots, or just the random twitching they do when infested, and then you got yourself a party in Billie's face, and all the bloodflies are invited. :supaburn:

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