The Most Horrific Sexual Abuse in Sports History is Coming to Light

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Most Horrific Sexual Abuse in Sports History is Coming to Light

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

are people actually kramering into a thread about the largest sports scandal in history to complain about somebody saying "sportsball", because holy poo poo your priorities are hosed

# ¿ Jan 24, 2018 01:01

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 11:00

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

gaj70 posted:

That answer doesn't sound like there is evidence. Am I misinterpreting?

why is pretty much every post you made in this thread defensive towards the serial rapist or his enablers?

# ¿ Jan 25, 2018 17:05

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

OwlFancier posted:

In his case you don't fight it with sentencing at all. Sure, I can, if I stretch, imagine that maybe there are people wandering around who are just too loving dumb to realise it's wrong and reeducation might stop them doing it again, maybe even make a productive, non raping person out of them. We can dream, but in this instance I fail to see what the hell difference his sentencing makes other than getting him out of a position where he can keep doing it?

I just don't see why anyone should care about what happens to him beyond that? What difference will it make? If it makes you feel good about yourself sure put him in a nice place, whatever, it won't make a blind bit of difference. Personally if he'd done this poo poo to me I'd want blood, and that wouldn't be justice either but I'd feel better as a result. And I don't think the life of someone who has molested hundreds of children matters enough to care whether it's given. Many crimes it does matter, not this one, the world will not suffer from systemic problems if we stopped caring about the welfare of people who molest hundreds of children.

If locking him up is justice then the word justice is a joke. There is simply no way he can repay what he's taken from people, no way you can make this fair or right, there is no justice in this case.

Even if you found out everyone responsible for this and the doubtless many other similar cases as yet unheard, and locked every last one of them up, tore down the institutions, cursed their memory and salted the earth, you could not make this right, only stop it happening again. That's no reason not to do it anyway, but calling it justice is foul.

you have really stupid opinions

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 11:14

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

shut the gently caress up owl fancier

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 15:35

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

ChairMaster posted:

A better answer is who cares? Once he's not free to hurt people anymore it really doesn't matter to me what happens to him, he can live in comfortable Anders Behring Brevik Norway prison or he can live in privatized American torture prison, it doesn't really matter on the personal level. Just the former is better for society.

this is what you should care about. the reason we're telling owl fancier that he's a shithead isn't that we love nassar so much, it's because the condoning of rape in any instance perpetuates a society that sees rape as acceptable at least in some instances. that has an effect on all of society. we can either want our society to be more humane or we can celebrate when a prisoner gets assaulted, but you can't do both.

also retributive justice is a horrible idea and part of the reason the US justice system is so hosed up.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 12:33

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

SpeakSlow posted:

I don't think that anyone here is calling for proscribed, codified and 'normalized' rape for this man.

They're just putting it out there that pedos generally don't have the best reputation amongst our prison populace and that they would find a sort of karmic gratification for this man to have to wear a medically necessary butt-plug for the rest of his days.

And if some patriotic citizen who also happens to be incarcerated were to begin punishing this man's colon with an uncircumcised, porn star-sized cock, all the better.

"hey let me just kramer into the sexual abuse thread and ruminate about how it would be awesome if this person got violently raped"

gently caress off you piece of poo poo

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 15:17

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

This is a point that is absolutely true in the abstract but false in the practicality. In the abstract, the justice system should not be punitive at all, but purely rehabilitative; the only thing society gains by seeing a criminal punished rather than rehabilitated is the joy of vicarious vengeance. Norway and Sweden and the scandinavian nations have much more rehabilitative systems and those systems get much better results overall at far lower cost.

quote:

In practice though that vicarious vengeance is socially necessary. If we somehow rewired Nassars' brain to ensure he would never offend again, and then released him out in the world to practice medicine again, society would gain a doctor, but his victims would have no sense of justice, and their families wouldn't either, and that dad who tried to jump Nassar in the courtroom and the hundred other dads would all eventually find Nassar and probably kill him. And in reality we can't re-wire Nassar's brain, and we can't undo the harm he did to his victims; all we can do is give them a sense of judicial vengeance.

nobody is talking about rewiring his brain. even if we rehabilitate him, that doesn't mean he gets to work as a doctor. also you're jumping from "we can't rewire his brain" to "all we can to is give the victims a sense of judicial vengeance", as if the only options were brain-washing or retributive punishment.

you realize that the societies you mentioned have and can cope with individuals that cannot be rehabilitated, yes? and their system isn't made retributive by that. if you can rehabilitate a felon through therapy etc., you should. those that remain dangerous to society even with those efforts are kept away from society in some way, either through imprisonment or through mandatory check-ins, monitoring and such.

lastly, "if we freed a felon they would only be hunted down" is not an argument for punishing that felon. there are a lot of murderers that can be completely rehabilitated, despite their victims' relatives who might wish to kill them in revenge.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 15:55

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It is an argument for punishing that felon, though? One of the primary purposes of retributive "justice" is to prevent vigilantism. It's a very large part of why the American "justice system" -- and I use that term only in its loosest sense -- punishes; without that visible punishment, there are a lot of Americans who would take matters into their own hands.

Look, in the abstract I agree with you: the Scandinavian systems are better, and I would like to see a more strongly rehabilitative and less punitive system put in place in America. But American society is a lot more spiteful and angry and vindictive than Scandinavian society is, and we're going to need some minimum degree of punishment within our system for the foreseeable future, if only to satisfy victims and prevent vigilantism.

there is no correlation between capital punishment and violent crime rates.

vigilante killings would show up in the violent crime rates.

thus there is no correlation between capital punishment and vigilantism.

if you're suggesting that capital punishment and retributive justice are different enough for one to correlate with vigilantism but not the other, show your reasoning or sources.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 16:49

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

i think we're completely talking past each other but we're also derailing a thread that's pretty important right now. i have no idea if there's a more appropriate thread for this discussion, but if there is i'd like to take it elsewhere.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2018 17:35

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

Sneakster posted:

We can pretend its not a sports culture problem, and sure, maybe its not sports in and of themselves, but: if you observe how athletic kids interact with adults, and squint your eyes, you can get a pretty good feel for the sexual tension. That applies to everywhere from barely legal boys on the local wrestling team in your town, to this so-very-obvious creepy as gently caress caricature of a pedophile who happened to sharing the kiddy diddling spank material with administrators who also could't have imagined what kind of guy Droopy Dog is.

I've never seen sexual tension in a math class, its a den of ugly ugly people or uptight nerds. There rarely seems to be an appropriate occasion to normalize shoulder rubs to help people relax.

Abolish organized sports.

you are really goddamn weird

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 19:09

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

General Dog posted:

Then what?

then things get better? what kind of a question is this

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 19:48

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

tsa posted:

It's easy to say just burn everything to the ground. Doesn't take thought or nuance or intellect to do that! But to actually come up with workable solutions that actually make the world better? You have to be smart to do that. A level of intellect that is in short supply here : (

i guess you would know about lack of intellect :thunk:

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 20:14

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

it should be obvious that destroying existing systems gets rid of those systems

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 20:54

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 11:00

botany: Apr 27, 2013; by Lowtax

please go gently caress yourself

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 21:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Most Horrific Sexual Abuse in Sports History is Coming to Light