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What the gently caress do we do about the fact that apparently a significant chunk of the population (predominantly male) seems to have the idea that they should be able to gently caress and molest men, women and children against their will with impunity, and that they seem to have widespread support to do so in many cases? The scope of the problem is absolutely disgusting and mind-boggling, and it just seems to get bigger and bigger. How do we even start to get a handle on this?
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Jan 23, 2018 04:43
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Dapper_Swindler posted:power and privilege probably. this monster probably started with little "allowances" and once he realized no one was gonna do anything(my guess is at "best" some management jack off gave him a stern talking to) he just did it. To be honest, I'd always really hoped that the main thing stopping people from raping and molesting was more than "if I get caught, it will be bad." That's a five-year-old's level of reasoning. Shouldn't most adults be operating at the level of "I shouldn't do this because it is morally repugnant, owing to the effect it would have on my victim"? And now, for the more frightening thought: what if most adults are operating on that higher level of morality and there's a huge segment of people with pedophilic desires, who don't act on them because it's self-evidently loving deplorable to do so? That's a fairly disturbing thought as well!
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Jan 23, 2018 05:01
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Henchman of Santa posted:Banning college sports would effectively destroy American sports as we know them. Why do Americans think this? Most every other country in the world has a non-university-based player development system for some/all of their sports. They still have the occasional issue with pedophiles, unfortunately, but it's absurd to suggest that professional sports depends on the NCAA system.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It wouldn't destroy sports, but it would destroy a lot of colleges. That makes more sense.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:06
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Maybe I'm just not a serious sportsball fan, but if any team I support was found to be sheltering pedophiles, I wouldn't require even two seconds of thought to never loving cheer for them again. Life will go on, I'll find another team to support, one that doesn't enable heinous crimes.
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Jan 23, 2018 17:13
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The reason "sportsball" is a funny and acceptable joke in this circumstance is because the sporting element is 100% irrelevant to the problem, and referring to it in a generic, ridiculous fashion helps underline the inherent absurdity of sports-based tribalism and how it can result in large-scale coverups of child molestation and other horrible things.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:08
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Henchman of Santa posted:The key words being "as we know them" Except the NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS, etc. will still exist more or less exactly as they exist right now, regardless of where the talent is developed.
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Jan 23, 2018 18:17
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mastershakeman posted:I'd rather he just be executed, but that's another whole can of worms. I don't support the death penalty for a number of reasons, but emotionally speaking, it's difficult to not want this fucker broken on the wheel.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:47
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I get that it's normal to want this bastard to suffer a horrible fate -- I mean, god knows I certainly do -- but, as with any awful criminal, we should treat him humanely and ethically. He did these things because he was unable to grasp the fact that just because he wanted something, doesn't mean he should act on his desire. In punishing him, we must make sure we do not do the same thing.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:43
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Hey everyone, I have an idea: perhaps we could not torture anyone, even people who really deserve it.
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Jan 25, 2018 02:03
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Feinne posted:Hey you can totally solve two problems at once, open up a new loving prison wing for everyone responsible and boom they don't need to be in solitary anymore. Now that's problem-solving!
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Jan 25, 2018 04:21
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There's a lot of people who badly, badly need to go to prison as a result of this whole thing.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:38
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jabby posted:It's almost at the point where all young athletes need an independent 'chaperone' who monitors all aspects of their training/health to make sure they aren't overworked, bullied, or abused. Because without wishing to be rude, their parents clearly aren't doing that. It wouldn't be a perfect system but it would sure be a gently caress sight better than what we've got right now. Make sure it's someone from outside the local community, though...
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Jan 25, 2018 15:02
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jabby posted:It all depends on what the doctor, patient, and parents are comfortable with. Any party can insist on having a chaperone and stop the exam/procedure going ahead without one. This brings back to memory a story I heard. Apparently, a paediatrician administered a rectal exam to "check for abuse" without the parent in the room, using the explanation that it might be one of the parents who is involved in any abuse. I don't believe there had been any accusations of such. That's, like, 100% bullshit and the doctor was actually a predator, right? At the time (I was in high school, and it was our health teacher relating this story -- as a legitimate "procedure") it struck me as very odd, but not definitely abuse, because doctors would never do that, right? That's how stuff like this can happen, I guess.
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Jan 25, 2018 18:40
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Burn the entire loving thing down, literally, with all the administration inside. Is there even a procedure to simply dissolve a university and use the assets to make something that isn't a toxic shithole run by people who are headed to the deepest circles of hell? We should develop one.
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Jan 26, 2018 05:16
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Mind_Taker posted:I don't get it. It a word that's typically used by practitioners of various flavours of woo to refer to what would more accurately and descriptively be termed "evidence-based medicine" or "scientific medicine." If you break down the word, "allo" comes from the Greek word for "other," as if it's evidence-based medicine that's odd compared to things like homeopathy and other nonsense.
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Jan 26, 2018 15:40
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Flayer posted:It's a bit harsh to call homeopathy nonsense. The placebo effect is real and homeopathy is an effective way to utilise it. It won't cure anyone of serious medical issues but as treatment for stress, pain, fatigue, nausea etc etc it can be pretty effective. No actually it's completely appropriate to call homeopathy nonsense. In fact, I can scarcely think of a more appropriate thing to call it. "Bullshit", perhaps? "Predatory snake oil sold by scam artists?"
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Jan 26, 2018 15:56
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Polaron posted:You'd think so, but the argument seems to be "But what about the kids whose dream it was to play for MSU? What about them??" Don’t most of the “kids” just want to play for a competitive program where they can show off their talents and then make it to the NFL or respective pro league for their sport? It’s like fans taking trades more seriously than the players. Get real, 99% of players want to make money and win championships, they don’t give a gently caress about team pride or history or any of that bullshit.
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Jan 26, 2018 18:47
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Henchman of Santa posted:99% of players will never make money on sports or win a championship and they know that. There are 130 teams in Division I football alone and about a dozen of them can realistically compete for a title in a given year. Team pride and history is a huge recruiting tool. Players go to schools that suit their needs and interests for sports just like any other kid picking a college. If you're assuming you aren't going to go pro, wouldn't it make more sense to find the best university for whatever it is you want to study, that will still offer you a sports scholarship?
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Jan 26, 2018 19:44
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Henchman of Santa posted:If you’re on a football scholarship you effectively are studying football, but very few people will ever be pro football players and they know that. They might go into coaching. Most will sell insurance or something like that. So the goal is to get CTE, while playing for free, in the name of some kind of school pride, and you don't even really get to study the field you actually want to work in after university? I'm starting to think if we really cared "what about the kids???" we wouldn't let them do this poo poo in the first place.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:54
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Halloween Jack posted:Young men who will never play college football, period, are also influenced by the strength of a school's football program. This must be a difference between US and Canada, but... why? The two universities I attended had hockey teams and football teams and all that stuff, and I don't think anyone not on those teams or trying to gently caress someone on those teams ever gave a poo poo about their success or failure. This mode of thinking is bizarre to me.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:55
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Henchman of Santa posted:America is weird. ...no doubt. I mean, the idea that someone would pay the absurd amount of money it takes to go to university in the US, and then select which university to go to on the basis of their strength is a sport the student is not even going to play, makes no sense to me at all. And if sports scholarships are the only way you're going to university, it absolutely makes sense to focus on sports, but if you don't think you're going to go pro, then wouldn't it be all the more important to pick something to do at university that's going to let you do something you want to do afterward, since you basically won the one golden ticket you're ever going to get? What's the thought process here? I'm honestly trying to understand it, and I'm just coming up short apparently.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:00
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mastershakeman posted:
I don't disagree with what you're saying, I'm just trying to understand why the part I bolded above happens.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:07
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Jesus Christ, DeVos is one heinous excuse for a human being. There's always more and it only ever gets worse!
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Jan 26, 2018 20:43
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skaboomizzy posted:Florida Gulf Coast University is in Fort Myers, a couple hours south of the Tampa Bay area. It was established in 1991 and had pretty much zero recognition in the state, let alone nationally. Okay, this is starting to make sense. It's not that people choose to go to a school with a highly-rated football or basketball program, but rather that there are so many universities in the US that it's an important way of advertising one's name.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:12
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Your Taint posted:He's hosed. We can sure hope. While I suppose it's fashionable to wish unyielding and ever-worse torture on Nasser, I think what really needs to be done is for fuckers like this to go straight to prison for the rest of their miserable lives too. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, pedo enabler!
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Jan 27, 2018 04:17
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It seems like this program needs to be utterly liquidated, and probably never allowed to reform. The sheer depth and breadth of heinous behaviour and coverups is such that the permanent annihilation of the program, whatever bad consequences it might have, is absolutely for the best.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:39
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Mahoning posted:I find this line of thinking useless. Not because I give a poo poo whether MSU Athletics is wiped off the face of the earth or not, but because it takes our focus away from the people that did this and puts the onus on the institution. It is both a series of acts by individual people, and a systemic problem at the institutional level, and both the individuals and the institution need to be held responsible. Look at de-Nazification in Germany. It found and punished a whole shitton of Nazis, but it went beyond finding individual Nazis onto utterly destroying the structures that allowed those individuals to do what they did, down to a prohibition on Nazi iconography that persists to this day. I'm not saying that allowing 200 people to be raped is quite as bad as killing twelve million people, but I don't see a reason it's not sufficiently bad to merit the same general line of thinking when it comes to assigning institutional responsibility.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:52
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OwlFancier posted:Patriarchy doesn't strictly mean that men do everything bad. Indeed, if patriarchy couldn't rely on the support of a sizeable fraction of women, it would have been smashed a very long time ago.
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Feb 10, 2018 14:59
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stone cold posted:it’s almost like power imbalances are the issue when it comes to predation Absolutely. I think the "smash capitalism, ????, all problems will be solved!" thing is naive. Capitalism is flawed, but it's not responsible for literally every bad thing that has happened or will happen in the world, and the sort of people who espouse that opinion are being counterproductive. You can see it with the legacy of incomplete de-Nazification in East Germany (after all, Nazism was the fault of capitalism, so good socialists needn't examine their complicity and responsibility), you can see it in the Berniebros who wonder why Black people weren't 100% behind Bernie all the time. It is the calling card of a white person, usually male, who is aggrieved that priority might be given to solving a problem that doesn't directly affect them -- a truly intolerable state of affairs.
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Feb 10, 2018 19:00
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stone cold posted:i find it disturbing when a judge says but for the constitution restraining them, they would have a defendant raped I think everyone can agree with that, but I'm a little sick of the hand-wringing over the "death warrant" bit.
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Feb 11, 2018 02:26
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And yet it's still a better sentiment than, "I really don't like this guy, so I don't care if he gets raped in prison." Perhaps reflect on that, yes?
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Feb 11, 2018 18:33
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Oh well then rape is okay I guess. Seriously, what the gently caress is wrong with you? We should not treat rape as an acceptable thing to happen to someone, even if they are the literal worst person on the entire earth.
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Feb 11, 2018 18:39
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stone cold posted:nah, all rape is bad You're 100% correct, but sadly I don't think you're going to win any converts on this through reason, because statements like "rape is unequivocally bad" and "torture is unequivocally bad" and "slavery is unequivocally bad" are, to an extent, axiomatic. You either accept that those are fundamental violations of the rights of any human being, by virtue of their basic humanity and completely unchanged by any of their possible actions, or you do not.
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Feb 12, 2018 02:09
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stone cold posted:yeah, i mean i’m not here to reason with somebody who thinks rape is good in some cases, i’m here to tell them they’re an idiot That's more than fair, I just wanted to make sure you weren't under any delusions that you might cause them to see the light. It is indeed unfortunate.
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Feb 12, 2018 02:57
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SpeakSlow posted:I don't think that anyone here is calling for proscribed, codified and 'normalized' rape for this man. This is really hosed up on a variety of levels, friend.
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Feb 12, 2018 15:17
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tetrapyloctomy posted:It keeps circling back to this, and it seems more right each time. Yeah I was certain it was necessary like five disgusting revelations ago, now I’m doubleplussure. In fact, just torch the entire loving NCAA while we’re at it. Poison trees bear only poisoned fruit.
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Mar 30, 2018 02:49
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stone cold posted:yes, the ncaa is an institution True, I thought you just meant the universities and programs directly involved (MSU, USA Gymnastics, etc.) but you are correct it should go much further.
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Mar 30, 2018 04:23
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Feinne posted:I mean if you burn down the universities that make it up the NCAA will necessarily also be burned down, if you do it after you're just burning ashes. Wouldn’t that be, in essence, destruction of every American university? I’m not saying no, but we better have a good plan to salvage the decent parts before pulling the trigger.
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Mar 30, 2018 04:24
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iospace posted:The NCAA only cares about one thing: money. That's it. It sets "academic standards" but if you know what you're doing, you can offer bogus classes to the players, and as long as you offer them to other students, you're in the clear as North Carolina found out. I agree, the NCAA can and should be destroyed. But destroying the universities that make it up? That’s pretty much every university. Destroy the sports programs to the ground and salt the earth, sure, and destroy the universities that did particularly heinous things, like Penn State and MSU, but I think destroying every university with a sports program, pragmatically speaking, is simply unworkable. Unless I’m misunderstanding what’s being said?
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Mar 30, 2018 15:39
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