US Immigration Policy Megathread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Immigration Policy Megathread

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Instant Sunrise posted:

Immigration as it is implemented today does in fact, massively empower the capital class. And badly handled immigration reform would give them even more power.

Labor has traditionally been anti-immigration, and many of the more draconian immigration bills I've mentioned were supported by labor. And there's a very obvious reason for that, as workers would organize and take direct action against management and the capital class, management would use immigrants as scab labor and plays the two groups against each other.

If we want to reform immigration in a way that doesn't give massive power and act as a wealth transfer to the top 1%, we need to do away with employer sponsorship requirements, which create a massive imbalance in power between labor and capital, and then we also need to provide a path to citizenship for the undocumented, to remove that leverage by capital.

As for keeping capital from exploiting immigrants as a wedge against labor? That is what union shops/closed shops, and the abolition of Taft-Hartley and right to work laws are for.

Oh hey, speaking of exploiting immigrants in an inherently unequal relationship with the capital class:

Politico presents: What if we brought back indentured servitude but like, with an app?

# ? Feb 14, 2018 02:18

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:34

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

wateroverfire posted:

I think you missed the point of the roommate analogy.

No, it�s just a really stupid analogy.

Also �but the benefits of immigration go more to the rich than to the non-rich� is not a meaningful argument to punish immigrants unless you�re dumb enough to not understand how solidarity works. The entire reason immigrants make for good scabs is because local citizen workers marginalize them.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 13:52

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Lightning Knight posted:

No, it�s just a really stupid analogy.

No, it's apt but he missed the point.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:26

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

wateroverfire posted:

No, it's apt but he missed the point.

No, it's really not. Immigrants aren't coming to live in your house. They aren't even necessarily coming to live anywhere near you. Racist old white people in Montana shouldn't get to decide whether or not immigrants come and live in New York.

That's besides the point, any analogy based on comparing national or international dynamics to household dynamics is almost always asinine.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:31

augias: Apr 7, 2009

Analogies are like buttholes.

# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:42

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Sanctuary Policies, ICE Detainer Requests, and the Constitution

Sanctuary City Policies.

Let's be honest here you've heard this term get thrown around a lot. And it doesn't really have a clear definition, so the right will use it to mean whatever it wants to mean. So we're not playing into the nativists hands, we need to define what a Sanctuary City or a Sanctuary State actually is:

A Sanctuary City is a city that does not allow it's own law enforcement to be drafted into doing ICE's work for them.

In the OP, I mentioned a Supreme Court case, Chy Lung v. Freeman set the precedent that Immigration is solely the responsibility of the Federal government. So a state cannot pass it's own laws saying that people from country x cannot enter.

So states cannot set their own immigration laws, but Chy Lung still allows them to enforce the federal immigration laws if they want to.

Well when you have bored cops trying to fill quotas that becomes a Problem.

In 1970's Los Angeles, Chief Daryl Gates was having issues with his cops grabbing anybody who looked Mexican off the streets on suspicion of being an undocumented immigrant. Well, most of the times they weren't, so this was just racist cops wasting everybody's time, and making it harder for detectives to do their jobs because potential witnesses for more serious crimes like homicide were unwilling to come forward and testify because of how these cops were acting.

So to combat this, Gates implemented LAPD Special Order 40. Under this, cops are supposed to leave the job of enforcing federal immigration laws to the federal immigration authorities.

Before you start posting "Daryl Gates, welcome to the #resistance," remember that this is the same Daryl Gates who militarized the poo poo out of the police by creating the first SWAT team, who's ridiculously racist policies against black communities had cops literally treating black communities in LA like a warzone and would ultimately end up causing the beating of Rodney King and subsequent 1992 riots.

Fast forward a few years and as the immigration debate moves into the mainstream, more and more cities start adopting policies similar to SO40, but under the name "Sanctuary City Policies."

What Sanctuary City Policies Actually Do:

Leave enforcement of federal immigration laws to the federal authorities.
Make everybody in a city safer by letting undocumented immigrants come forward if they've been the victim of a crime or were a witness to a crime.

What Sanctuary City Policies Don't Do:

Let undocumented immigrants get away with all the crimes ever.

Sanctuary City policies have a weird history but actually do a lot of good, but the far right really loving hates them.

ICE Detainers

These are written request that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) sends out whenever somebody they think is an undocumented immigrant has been in contact with their state or local law enforcement asking them to keep that person in prison for an extra 48 hours (not including weekends or holidays) so that ICE can take their sweet sweet time to pick them up and put them into the deportation system.

These requests are NOT Warrants, they are voluntary requests (Galarza v. Szalczyk). ICE is supposed to need probable cause for them, but they usually don't, and they don't need a judge signing off on them.

When a police officer or a sheriffs deputy decides to honor these requests, the courts have ruled that this is a new arrest, (Morales v. Chadbourne) and they must follow due process (they don't).

So like was posted previously, what ICE is doing is asking the local cops to do their job for them, and that's not within the statutory authority of ICE (Jimenez-Moreno v. Napolitano). And ICE isn't supposed to be asking the local cops hold somebody "just because." _{but they do it anyway}

But what this all boils down to is that ICE is very likely asking cities across the country to violate the 4th amendment. But it's never come up in a Supreme Court decision, so they're gonna keep on doing it anyway.

The closest this has come to a major decision was in Miranda-Olivares v. Clackamas County.

Maria Miranda-Olivares was arrested by the Clackamas County authorities for violating a restraining order. Under the Clackamas county policies, any time somebody who was a foreign national was brought in, they would send that persons name to ICE to see if they were somebody they could deport. The Judge in her restraining order case set her bail at $5000, of which she could pay $500 to post bail and go home to await trial and consult a lawyer.

However, ICE said that they thought she might be undocumented and to keep her in jail so they could double check.

So they did. And even though she was able to post bail in her case, they wouldn't let her out of Jail because ICE asked them not to while they checked if she was an undocumented immigrant or not. On the restraining order charges, she pleaded guilty to one charge of contempt of court, and sentenced to 48 hours in prison with time already served credited, so she would have been free to go.

Except that ICE didn't want her to leave.

Clackamas County held her in jail for an extra 19 hours, even though she was free to go and had served her sentence, purely because ICE had asked them to.

So she took them to federal court.

And the federal courts in Oregon came back and said:

Because the request was not a court order and the jail was within their rights to refuse, they should have refused to honor the request after she was released.
By holding her for extra time because ICE had asked them to after she had served her time and was free to go, Clackamas County violated her fourth amendment rights.

Clackamas County chose not to appeal this decision to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, so it's only binding in Clackamas County. With that said, several other counties in Oregon have adopted policies similar to the court's ruling in this case.

Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 14, 2018

# ? Feb 14, 2018 21:47

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

Instant Sunrise posted:

Labor has traditionally been anti-immigration, and many of the more draconian immigration bills I've mentioned were supported by labor. And there's a very obvious reason for that, as workers would organize and take direct action against management and the capital class, management would use immigrants as scab labor and plays the two groups against each other.

Uhh what about the socialist internationals, workers of all countries, etc etc. It's true that immigration has always been an important topic for left-wing movements, but the relationship has not always been adversarial

e: I think I got my history mixed up a bit there

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 14, 2018

# ? Feb 14, 2018 23:55

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Private Speech posted:

Uhh what about the socialist internationals, workers of all countries, etc etc. It's true that immigration has always been an important topic for left-wing movements, but the relationship has not always been adversarial

e: I think I got my history mixed up a bit there

Yeah it depends on the labor organization, but a good number of unions have a history of opposing immigration for protectionist and racist reasons.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 00:09

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

Instant Sunrise posted:

Yeah it depends on the labor organization, but a good number of unions have a history of opposing immigration for protectionist and racist reasons.

I feel like Cesar Chavez is worth discussing in this context. I�d say more but I am indisposed at the moment.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 00:15

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440

Maybe it's something on my end, but in case Kaine's page is totally unreadable garbage, here's what they're going with:

quote:

Washington, D.C. ��A bipartisan group of 16 Senators unveiled legislation this evening to protect �Dreamers� and to strengthen border security.� The Senators are part of the Common Sense Coalition, a group of 25 Republican, Democratic, and Independent Senators convened by U.S. Senators Susan Collins (R-ME) and Joe Manchin (D-WV), who have been meeting nearly every day in Senator Collins� office to develop a framework to address Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and other immigration issues.

The lead sponsors of the legislation are Senators Mike Rounds (R-SD) and Angus King (I-ME), and the original cosponsors include Senators: Collins, Manchin, Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Tim Kaine (D-VA), Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Chris Coons (D-DE), Cory Gardner (R-CO), Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Lamar Alexander (R-TN), Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), and Mark Warner (D-VA).

�Our bipartisan proposal takes meaningful steps to enhance border security, adds limits to chain migration and permanently deals with DACA recipients,� said Senator Rounds. ��The $25 billion allotted for border security is a historic investment in our nation�s borders that will strengthen our ability to keep bad actors out of the country and keep Americans safe. It is a significant improvement from the status quo and will allow us to continue the dialogue as we seek to keep our borders safe and reform our immigration system to one that is merit-based.�

�Nearly everybody involved in this process has expressed a desire to help these young people, and that�s exactly what our bipartisan group, under the leadership of Senator Collins, has been working towards. Let�s help them, rather than getting bogged down in complicated, comprehensive and unrelated changes to our immigration policy,� said Senator King.� �I hope our amendment will get the votes we need to take these young men and women out of limbo and ensure their legal status in the country they call home.�

�Following the reopening of the government last month, members of our Common Sense Coalition saw that immigration was beginning to fracture along partisan lines.� We met continuously so that Senators could discuss this important issue and reach consensus,� said Senator Collins.� �Our legislation underscores the broad, bipartisan commitment to creating a path to citizenship for Dreamers, who were brought to this country illegally through no decision of their own, while strengthening border security to help stop the flow of illegal immigrants as well as drugs like heroin that are ruining lives.�

�This compromise shows the American people what Congress can get done when we work in a bipartisan way and put politics aside. I�m glad we could work through these complicated issues in a constructive way in order to secure our border and solve some difficult immigration issues that I think both sides can support,� Senator Manchin said.

�Our proposal would represent the most significant change to immigration law in the past thirty-five years,� said Senator Graham.� �Providing President Trump with $25 billion for the Wall system he campaigned on is a giant step forward for border security.� As to the DACA population, we mirror President Trump�s proposal allowing DACA eligible individuals to obtain legal status and over a ten to twelve-year period, they can become green card holders. This will allow them to pursue their lives with certainty and stability in the United States � the only country they know. This is a substantial down payment on fixing a broken immigration system and truly is a win-win.�

�We�ve reached a deal that gives us the best chance to protect Dreamers against deportation from the only country they know as home,� said Senator Kaine. �This is a true compromise, which includes the significant boost in border security funding our Republican colleagues and President Trump have been asking for. I�ve worked across the aisle for weeks with this large group of Republicans and Democrats to reach this deal, and I hope my colleagues will join us in showing that the Senate can solve tough problems.�

�I�m pleased to be part of this group of Republicans and Democrats who are working together to make a law, rather than a point,� said Senator Flake. ��A broadly-supported, bipartisan bill that protects DACA recipients and strengthens border security ought to be able to get 60 votes in the Senate. Let�s put it on the floor and work together to get it passed.�

�This bipartisan legislation represents our best opportunity to make long overdue changes to our immigration laws that will allow 1.8 million Dreamers to live without fear of deportation, make robust investments in border security, and ensure that family reunification remains one of the core values of our immigration system,� said Senator Coons. �This process has not been easy, and this bill is not perfect, but Delawareans sent me to the Senate to not only fight for our values, but to also work across the aisle to get things done.� While this isn't the bill I would have drafted, I believe this is a good, honest compromise, and I will support it on the Senate floor tomorrow.�

�Our immigration system is broken and we need to fix it,� said Senator Gardner. �There are many children who came to this country without documentation and we need to allow them the opportunity to remain here lawfully. This legislation addresses some of the largest challenges our broken immigration system faces, including a major boost to border security, and I urge members on both sides of the aisle that want a solution to support our bipartisan approach.�

�This agreement is full of tough compromises, but it shows that when senators really want to find bipartisan solutions, it�s possible,� said Senator Heitkamp. �That�s the whole purpose of the Common Sense Coalition � to work together, Republicans and Democrats, to reach results for the American people � and I hope Congress passes our deal. I�m proud to have been part of this group that worked together to reopen the government in 2013 and last month. And now we�re doing it again by forging a deal that both provides a permanent solution to those who came to our country as children through no fault of their own while boosting border security at all of our borders.�

"I am proud to be part of this bipartisan effort," said Senator Murkowski. "The amendment seeks to protect the Dreamers while strengthening our border security and I am encouraged by the time and effort we have spent as a group trying to achieve a consensus on this difficult issue. I hope we can get to a final bill that protects the Dreamers and look forward to the debate."

�This bipartisan agreement finally allows DREAMers a pathway to citizenship so that they no longer have to live in fear of deportation,� said Senator Shaheen. �Time is of the essence and I urge lawmakers on both sides of the aisle to support this proposal so that DREAMers can finally move on with their lives. This agreement further demonstrates the necessity of good faith bipartisan discussions and the need for compromise to get things done. I look forward to continued participation with the Common Sense Caucus to make further progress on the many challenges facing our country.�

�My goal is to get a result on both border security and DACA so I will cosponsor and vote for Senator Grassley's legislation implementing the president�s proposal. I will also cosponsor and vote for this narrower bipartisan proposal offered by Senators Rounds and King because it too solves the DACA problem and provides the $25 billion the president requested to improve border security,� said Senator Alexander.

"We can't wait any longer to find a solution for the DREAMers and this bipartisan agreement - which was a product of working across the aisle with my colleagues for the past several weeks - includes a path to citizenship. I am hopeful it can get strong bipartisan support in the Senate," said Senator Klobuchar.

�We have a real opportunity to secure our borders and address some of the issues in our immigration system,� said Senator Isakson. �I�m committed to continuing to work toward real solutions, and this legislation will help meet many of these goals.�

�This is a bipartisan solution that will provide a path to citizenship for Dreamers whose status in this country was left in limbo when the administration announced it was ending the DACA program,� said Senator Warner. ��This amendment certainly isn�t perfect, but I believe it is a suitable compromise and the best path forward for the Senate to advance legislation on this critical issue.�

Highlights of the bipartisan proposal include:

Legal Status and Path to Citizenship for Young People Brought to the US as Children.

The amendment provides legal status and a path to citizenship to individuals who were brought to the U.S. as children. Individuals who are registered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program automatically qualify, if they arrived in this country by June 15, 2007, unless they have engaged in conduct that would make them ineligible. To obtain legal status, individuals not enrolled in the DACA program must:

- Have been continuously present in the U.S. since June 15, 2012, the date of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Executive Order;
- Have been under age 18 when they entered the U.S., and under age 38 on June 15, 2012;
- Meet educational requirements or be serving in the U.S. Armed Forces (or have been honorably discharged from military service);�and
- Pass background checks, medical exams, and register for the Selective Service, if applicable.
Individuals do not qualify if they are convicted of a felony, a significant misdemeanor, or three or more misdemeanors. Individuals are required to pay any federal tax liability incurred while working legally in the U.S.

Beneficiaries can apply for citizenship after 12 years, and up to 2 years of credit will be given for time with DACA.
PROHIBITION ON DACA BENEFICIARIES SPONSORING THEIR PARENTS FOR CITIZENSHIP

The amendment includes language prohibiting parents from using their Dreamer children�s newly granted citizenship to apply for citizenship themselves.
BORDER SECURITY

The amendment authorizes and appropriates $25 billion in funding for Northern and Southern border security over the next 10 years.� The bill requires DHS to provide detailed reports to Congress on its security plan, including physical barriers, fencing, tactical infrastructure, technology, personnel, and the milestones for implementing this plan.

Funding after the first year is released each year once the DHS Secretary certifies that at least 75 percent of the goals for the prior year have been reached.� Sixty votes would be required in order to prevent funding for each fiscal year.
The bill also directs the Secretary to prioritize enforcement resources against aliens who:
- Have been convicted of a felony, a significant misdemeanor, three or more misdemeanors;
- Are a threat to national security or public safety; or
- Are unlawfully present and arrived in the U.S. after June 30, 2018.

Yes, they actually called it the Common Sense Coalition.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 05:29

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Office Pig posted:

https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440

Maybe it's something on my end, but in case Kaine's page is totally unreadable garbage, here's what they're going with:

Yes, they actually called it the Common Sense Coalition.

10 year wait for citizenship, :nice:

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:16

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

icantfindaname posted:

10 year wait for citizenship,

Look at the language they've so willingly adopted throughout this whole thing. 'Chain migration' is just the tip of the iceberg, they've practically adopted all the tropes about drugs and security Trump has forced onto the public. This is getting sold as the modernizing fix instead of a bad 1920's copy-paste, and my takeaway from this is that a Democratic congress isn't going to do anything about the bad changes this bill inflicts.

Assuming they don't just go for Trump's plan.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:21

Spiffster: Oct 7, 2009; I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...; Lipstick Apathy

Doubt any of this will work and we will we deportations start as soon as trump�s plan fails to pass. Court stays and orders be damned because trump is a petty petty skin tube of a man

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:26

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Office Pig posted:

https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440

Maybe it's something on my end, but in case Kaine's page is totally unreadable garbage, here's what they're going with:

Yes, they actually called it the Common Sense Coalition.

Reading between the lines here, Angus King is the principal author of this. He used to be an immigration hardliner and now he�s the reasonable middle of the road compromise. That�s how much the Overton window has shifted on this issue.

Going through the actual text of this:

There�s this gem hidden in there for DACA recipients:

So that little clause in there means that ICE can justifiably deny citizenship to DREAMers if they�re too outspoken. Isn�t that interesting...

:thunk:

The press release only lightly mentioned family reunification visas and offered no details.

The actual bill reduces the number of people who can receive Family Reunification visas for green card holders from 170,000 per year to 114,200. Leaving 55,800 people out in the cold.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:30

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

I actually hadn't been able to get around to the bill text yet. I could tell this still leaves Dreamers vulnerable in a lot of respects, but does this thing actually turn them into de facto second class citizens?

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:41

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Office Pig posted:

I actually hadn't been able to get around to the bill text yet. I could tell this still leaves Dreamers vulnerable in a lot of respects, but does this thing actually turn them into de facto second class citizens?

�Permanent Resident Status on a Conditional Basis� is what dreamers will have for the 12 year wait before naturalization.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:44

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Office Pig posted:

Look at the language they've so willingly adopted throughout this whole thing. 'Chain migration' is just the tip of the iceberg, they've practically adopted all the tropes about drugs and security Trump has forced onto the public. This is getting sold as the modernizing fix instead of a bad 1920's copy-paste, and my takeaway from this is that a Democratic congress isn't going to do anything about the bad changes this bill inflicts.

Assuming they don't just go for Trump's plan.

It's classic 90s Clintonism, nothing new about it

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Feb 15, 2018

# ? Feb 15, 2018 07:19

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

Here's what DREAMer organizations and activists think of the bills being debated this week. I think anyone who claims to care about dreamers should pay close attention to what they have to say about it.

https://twitter.com/UNITEDWEDREAM/status/963887560144687105

https://twitter.com/UNITEDWEDREAM/status/963875755510902785

https://twitter.com/ErikaAndiola/status/963856191838412801

https://twitter.com/Re4mImmigration/status/963844081410600960

https://twitter.com/altochulo/status/963984324939968513

https://twitter.com/UndocuBlack/status/963927384792629248

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/politics/daca-harvard-medical-students/index.html

# ? Feb 15, 2018 08:46

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Trump is threatening to Veto that immigration Bill.

Yep. The Rounds-King bill that accepted and internalized far-right framing of immigration, made serious cuts to the number of family members of green card holders admitted to the US and made it de facto illegal for DREAMers to speak up politically? It wasn't draconian enough for trump so he's threatening to veto it.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:18

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010

That seems pretty hollow considering he also threatened to veto the budget proposal for not addressing immigration.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:19

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

They all died in the Senate, anyway. :smith:

# ? Feb 16, 2018 03:32

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

who knew giving up your only leverage would backfire so spectacularly

What�s that? oh even infants knew? Oh

# ? Feb 16, 2018 03:58

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

The Republicans want to deport the Dreamers, it's as simple as that, they are just going through these motions because of how inhumane and terrible it is. Setting and holding to the March deadline, nuking anything that looked close to being a deal to stop the deportations, all of it makes sense if you accept that the Republicans want to get rid of the Dreamers but are trying to conjure some sort of plausible deniability for it. Any Democrat who behaved as if it was otherwise was deluding themselves, an idiot, or also wanted to deport the Dreamers.

The only way to make this not happen was using the shutdown as leverage :smith:

# ? Feb 16, 2018 13:53

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Schumer is quite possibly the stupidest person to have set foot in the senate

# ? Feb 16, 2018 14:59

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Schumer is quite possibly the stupidest person to have set foot in the senate

We're stuck with him until 2022, but is there at least a good contender for Dem leader, or is that going to be his gig until he retires?

# ? Feb 16, 2018 15:04

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Look at the comment sections of any major news site. The MAGA chuds genuinely want every brown person from the country to just not exist anymore.

Racism is baked into our immigration system from its very beginnings.

The increasing dehumanization of all Latin-Americans by the far right is alarming, but what is even more worrisome is how much they�ve shifted the Overton Window.

Two years ago, Steve King was an immigration hardliner and an outlier.

Now his loving name is on a bipartisan compromise bill as a principal author, and it got threatened with a veto because it wasn�t extreme enough.

Our immigration system is fundamentally flawed and needs a top to bottom overhaul.

ICE is a modern day gestapo that is willing to flagrantly violate the constitution and press state and local cops to do their jobs for them.

Our immigration courts that aren�t actually courts are a kangaroo court that thinks a three year old is capable of defending themselves and doesn�t need a lawyer.

And under the current administration that�s never going to happen, it�s only going to get worse.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 16:56

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Two things today:

1. https://twitter.com/RogerDHodge/status/966734043801899009

2. https://twitter.com/KThomasDC/status/966733785202151427

Trump is continuing to turn the entire US Immigration service into his personal gestapo.

Like I've said earlier, I honestly truly think that the only way to reform ICE and our Immigration System is to just gut it and rebuild it from a blank slate. Nobody involved in the current agencies should be involved in a new immigration system.

# ? Feb 22, 2018 19:46

Brony Car: May 22, 2014; by Cyrano4747

Absurd Alhazred posted:

We're stuck with him until 2022, but is there at least a good contender for Dem leader, or is that going to be his gig until he retires?

Not sure. I would think it depends on who else manages to stay or get voted into the Senate.

# ? Feb 22, 2018 19:49

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

if trump pulls ICE from CA can i help them get their asses out? pro bono even

# ? Feb 22, 2018 22:22

Red and Black: Sep 5, 2011

Raskolnikov38 posted:

if trump pulls ICE from CA can i help them get their asses out? pro bono even

# ? Feb 22, 2018 22:32

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

gently caress ICE.

quote:

Some detainees at the Santa Ana City Jail and Stewart Detention Center reported long waits for the provision of medical care, including instances of detainees with painful conditions, such as infected teeth and a knee injury, waiting days for medical intervention.

quote:

Staff did not always tell detainees why they were being segregated, nor did they always communicate detainees' rights in writing or provide appeal forms for those put in punitive lockdown or placed in segregation.

quote:

At Otero County Processing Center and Stewart Detention Center, we observed detainee bathrooms that were in poor condition, including mold and peeling paint on walls, floors and showers

quote:

lAt the Stewart Detention Center, some detainee bathrooms had no hot water and some showers lacked cold water. Also, detainees reported water leaks in some housing areas

quote:

The conditions in these detention facilities are deplorable and include: threats of force-feeding for participation in hunger strikes, sexual abuse, lack of clean drinking water, lack of adequate access to legal materials or attorneys, and labor for just $1 per day.

# ? Feb 26, 2018 17:17

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Double gently caress ICE and gently caress Gorsuch on his stolen seat for enabling them.

https://twitter.com/npr/status/968508235966828551

# ? Feb 27, 2018 16:58

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

Instant Sunrise posted:

Like I've said earlier, I honestly truly think that the only way to reform ICE and our Immigration System is to just gut it and rebuild it from a blank slate. Nobody involved in the current agencies should be involved in a new immigration system.

What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim?

# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:19

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

tsa posted:

What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim?

ICE has existed for less time than family guy has.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:21

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

tsa posted:

What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim?

Seems like Trump is doing that just fine tho?

Also lol username post combo

# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:25

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

tsa posted:

What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim?

First of all, it�s entirely possible to do a top to bottom rebuild of a federal agency. The Bush Administration did exactly that when he reorganized the INS and USCS into ICE, CBP, USCIS, and EOIR.

But since you want to talk about incremental solutions, let�s talk:

Get congress to pass a new immigration act that gets rid of the current quotas and restrictions, Anybody who wishes to enter the country as a permanent resident can do so after paying a nominal fee.
Make immigration it�s own cabinet level department instead of being under DHS or DOJ.
Shut down EOIR and move its responsibilities to be under the judicial branch, to prevent a conflict of interest.
let people facing immigration hearings have public defenders.
get rid of the special immigration detention centers. If somebody is legitimately a threat to others, deal with that through the justice system like anybody else.
restructure ICE, ban the use of detainer requests, bar ICE from impersonating police or picking people up from schools, courthouses, churches, or anywhere else they have a reasonable expectation of sanctuary.

Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Feb 27, 2018

# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:37

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK: Sep 11, 2008; Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola
-Cheap Trick; Nap Ghost

Instant Sunrise posted:

Double gently caress ICE and gently caress Gorsuch on his stolen seat for enabling them.

https://twitter.com/npr/status/968508235966828551

The actual holding is that the 9th circuit erred in interpreting statutes and the issue needs to be reconsidered on the basis of if his constitutional rights were infringed.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 18:34

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

exploded mummy posted:

The actual holding is that the 9th circuit erred in interpreting statutes and the issue needs to be reconsidered on the basis of if his constitutional rights were infringed.

https://twitter.com/LilySAxelrod/status/968633174703116295

# ? Feb 28, 2018 02:40

unlawfulsoup: May 12, 2001; Welcome home boys!

Instant Sunrise posted:

Get congress to pass a new immigration act that gets rid of the current quotas and restrictions, Anybody who wishes to enter the country as a permanent resident can do so after paying a nominal fee.

let people facing immigration hearings have public defenders.

Well for one thing if you are having functionally open borders why would you have immigration hearings anymore anyway? It would just be simpler to get rid of all that infrastructure and just give everyone their green card at the airport, why bother with the fee even... Your other proposals can be done with a huge amount of political legwork but these two are total pipedreams. I can't see any party being excited to get behind them as I don't even think you could get 30-40% of the country behind that.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 09:47

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 17:34

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Also an idea: end employer-based sponsorship of immigration, replace it with an employee-based system that doesn't have such a hugely unequal power dynamic like the current system does.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 20:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Immigration Policy Megathread

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