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Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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gently caress ICE and nativists, solidarity with immigrants and workers.

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Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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joepinetree posted:

Which South American country "has extremely strict border policies and treats illegal immigrants far, far worse?"

I mean frankly even if every country in the Americas was a fascist police state except the US that's not actually an excuse to poo poo on immigrants ourselves.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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readingatwork posted:

TLDW: Immigrants are good because white birthrates are going down and they fill the economic gaps by paying debts and driving growth.

So in simple economic terms I don't think Blyth is wrong.

But conceptualizing immigration policy like this is deeply unethical to me, because it accepts the framing that immigrants should only be accepted insofar as they are useful to us, and if they stopped being useful to us, it would be acceptable to shut out immigrants and support closed borders policies.

This is the entire problem with capitalism, and dehumanizing people to simplify them to their value to the economic system. People should be valued as people, not relative to how they fit into the economic system.

Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Feb 12, 2018

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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blah blah blah go find a cop to defend you rear end in a top hat.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/08/deporting-criminal-immigrants-is-both-unwise-and-immoral

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/can-we-have-humane-immigration-policy

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/12/what-would-humane-immigration-policy-actually-look-like

Some good, quality writing on what left-wing immigration policy could or ought to look like.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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wateroverfire posted:

I think you missed the point of the roommate analogy.

No, it’s just a really stupid analogy.

Also “but the benefits of immigration go more to the rich than to the non-rich” is not a meaningful argument to punish immigrants unless you’re dumb enough to not understand how solidarity works. The entire reason immigrants make for good scabs is because local citizen workers marginalize them.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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wateroverfire posted:

No, it's apt but he missed the point.

No, it's really not. Immigrants aren't coming to live in your house. They aren't even necessarily coming to live anywhere near you. Racist old white people in Montana shouldn't get to decide whether or not immigrants come and live in New York.

That's besides the point, any analogy based on comparing national or international dynamics to household dynamics is almost always asinine.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Instant Sunrise posted:

Yeah it depends on the labor organization, but a good number of unions have a history of opposing immigration for protectionist and racist reasons.

I feel like Cesar Chavez is worth discussing in this context. I’d say more but I am indisposed at the moment.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Instant Sunrise posted:

Also an idea: end employer-based sponsorship of immigration, replace it with an employee-based system that doesn't have such a hugely unequal power dynamic like the current system does.

Could you explain what employee-based system means?

Pretend like I'm an idiot (you don't have to pretend).

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Instant Sunrise posted:

Under the present system, somebody must have a US company sponsor them in order to immigrate to the US on an H-1B visa, this lets them live and work in the US for 6 years (10 if the company is a defense contractor).

There's a lot of poo poo the company has to do in order to do it and it acts as a sword of Damocles over any H-1B employee's head, since if they get laid off they have 60 days to find a new job with somebody willing to go through all whole process all over again (but without being subjected to the cap on new applications).

So by getting rid of the employer sponsorship requirement, and just letting people who meet the H-1B requirements (college degree) come in, along with a much longer grace period for unemployment, it gets rid of that sword of damocles over their heads, which in turn will give prospective employees more leverage W/R/T salary negotiations, and will prevent companies from using H-1B workers as a cudgel against workers born here.

Ah I see, that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Peven Stan posted:

Before world war I there was no such thing as border controls, true story.

Chinese Exclusion Act? Among other anti-immigrant initiatives.

Maybe this was the case in Europe tho, no idea about that.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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On the truly staggering level of sexual assault in ICE detention facilities and the lack of action to do anything about it, or even document it properly.

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Instant Sunrise, you should post that Twitter thread you made about American colonialism in the Americas.

Also relevant:

https://twitter.com/clintsmithiii/status/1013075141490864128?s=21

Edit:

Another thread:

https://twitter.com/ositanwanevu/status/957653193873346560?s=21

Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 30, 2018

Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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Thanks IS. I followed you on Twitter, I hope you don’t mind.

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1013104124559331328?s=21

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Lightning Knight
Feb 24, 2012

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I'm extremely here for this high quality posting content. :golfclap:

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