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Jeb! Repetition posted:Where does WH40k say fascism is bad? A literal fascist I know loves it Everything about how the Imperium and especially the cult of the Emperor was set up with the subtext of "this is actually a failed state which has regressed significantly, continuing onward mostly by sheer inertia. It is a terrible place to live and has almost nothing to recommend it."
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Feb 12, 2018 18:45
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i guess you'd have to accept the concept of a pan-human government that regularly murders its citizens by the billions with impunity in the name of racial purity is inherently not a good thing
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Feb 12, 2018 18:45
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Al! posted:i guess you'd have to accept the concept of a pan-human government that regularly murders its citizens by the billions with impunity in the name of racial purity is inherently not a good thing I forget which piece of fluff it's from but there's one story where in the 30th millenium the Orks first made contact and, not yet being the comic relief boyz we all know and love these days, told the administerium or whomever that they wanted nothing to do with a backward pack of murderous religious lunatics like the Imperium.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:49
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But from what I've seen it makes the argument that all that's justified because a victory by the forces of chaos would be even worse, which is exactly the same thing real life fascism says
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Feb 12, 2018 18:49
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were the warp zone monsters actually corruptive in the earlier framing or was that just the product of the game satirically presenting the setting thru the human cultures interpretive lens
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Feb 12, 2018 18:49
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Squizzle posted:were the warp zone monsters actually corruptive in the earlier framing or was that just the product of the game satirically presenting the setting thru the human cultures interpretive lens Jeb! Repetition posted:But from what I've seen it makes the argument that all that's justified because a victory by the forces of chaos would be even worse, which is exactly the same thing real life fascism says I think Chaos is always pretty clearly unambiguously the worst/most corruptive element in Warhammer (the Tyranids probably coming in second), regardless of how you look at them. I started playing back in the late 80s so the more satirical/farcical elements of the Rogue Trader days were over by then, but even the older stuff I read made it pretty clear that while sure, the Imperium was a preferable alternative to the Ruinous Powers, things were pretty poo poo on even the well-run human planets (of which there were few, usually legacies of the Primarchs in their youth) and one of the chief reasons nothing ever really got better was the insane regressive hierarchy of the state.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:56
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Jeb! Repetition posted:But from what I've seen it makes the argument that all that's justified because a victory by the forces of chaos would be even worse, which is exactly the same thing real life fascism says Yeah that's the point
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Feb 12, 2018 18:59
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im skimming a wikipedia article and its laying it on p thick that the gods of the chaos world are imbalanced/excessive incarnations of p deece ideas—the god of war is also the god of honor, the god of disease is the god of life, etc so i guess its a moorcockian thing (whom the article also calls out, tbf) where you have stagnant hyper-order vs entropic ultra-chaos and if everyone would just calm their poo poo and take a half-step away from the fringes it would be actually great
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Feb 12, 2018 19:04
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The reason Chaos is so evil is literally because everyone thinks it's that evil. The warp is the collective unconscious of every soul-bearing species and everything within it is a direct creation of everyone's thoughts and feelings. The war against Chaos is the Imperium fighting an enemy it made up (and is losing to).
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Feb 12, 2018 19:15
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tadashi posted:Even if it was due to the orders of a toy company, the Transformers animated movie was pretty transformational (no pun intended) for me to see as a kid with so many of the primary characters getting the axe. The movie may seem like a mess but, in hindsight, they must have done something right because I remember feeling like the plot worked as a child and I think there is some good in showing that war isn't easily resolved and people we care about get hurt, rather than the sanitized version of war that GI Joe or He-Man communicated. It might be that when I was a kid I liked my characters immutable. (I won't dump out my whole purse here but my mom nearly died of illness when I was six, and I might have had some issues with death at the time and a long time after, and poo poo was pretty chaotic in my childhood anyway.) What I wanted out of Transformers was - more adventures with the giant robots I'd come to know. Weirdly, Robotech passed those same messages you mentioned, but I didn't mind them there; indeed, I saw the sense in them. And in Robotech, the entire surface of the earth gets wiped the gently caress out in a brutal montage In conclusion, my childhood is a land of contrasts Transformers the movie is a bad movie that people remember fondly. The GI Joe movie was so awful it poisoned the 80s franchise. There they introduced new characters - very much like the old characters, except newer and hipper - while the old characters stand in the background, looking sad
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Feb 12, 2018 19:47
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ser PENT or
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Feb 12, 2018 19:59
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MizPiz posted:The reason Chaos is so evil is literally because everyone thinks it's that evil. The warp is the collective unconscious of every soul-bearing species and everything within it is a direct creation of everyone's thoughts and feelings. The war against Chaos is the Imperium fighting an enemy it made up (and is losing to). Don't forget when they introduced the space communists that were pretty much good guys but then had to reel it back a bit when their fans got mad about it
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Feb 12, 2018 20:03
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Also, The Toys That Made Us is required watching if you played with late-70s through late-80s toys.
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Feb 12, 2018 20:35
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Tardcore posted:Don't forget when they introduced the space communists that were pretty much good guys but then had to reel it back a bit when their fans got mad about it The corporation rewriting the successful communist faction into an Orwellian nightmare at the insistence of a very loud subset of fans of the fascist empire is just too on the nose
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Feb 12, 2018 21:30
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Squizzle posted:ser PENT or I forget if Serpentor was originally from the movie, or if he was something the cartoon did The idea of taking DNA samples from the greatest conquers of history (Genghis Khan...Juluis Caeser...Dracula!) is a good hook especially as Cobra Commander is first lambasted for his awful leadership. (That episode where he constructs a magic diamond super-laser only to carve his face on the moon might've came up.) It's just that Serpentor was the Chris Roberts of Cobra - he'd fly in on his literal golden throne, make some nonsensical demands, and then fly away, with his catchphrase "THIS I COMMAND" echoing down the hall. Then it was up to the usual gang of idiots to turn these demands into action The movie has one memorable scene: Cobra Commander is turned into a snake, and wraps himself around Roadblock as they are expelled into a snowstorm in the Himalayas. So you have this big dude who only speaks in rhyme, and a talking snake who mutters "Useless! All useless! I was once a man!" tadashi posted:Also, The Toys That Made Us is required watching if you played with late-70s through late-80s toys. I liked the He-Man one the best - I always wondered how the Conan the Barbarian/Frank Frazetta scene got translated into a no-violence cartoon for five year olds
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Feb 12, 2018 22:42
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Nebakenezzer posted:I forget if Serpentor was originally from the movie, or if he was something the cartoon did Prior to the movie, they did a multiple episode arc in which Dr. Mindbender's team assembles the genetic material for him, though Sgt. Slaughter manages to stop at least one sample from reaching them. They later ret-conned the whole thing to be the result of Cobra-la implanting the idea in Mindbender's, err, mind, via a psychic transmitter of some kind.
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Feb 12, 2018 22:50
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40k Thread in 1 page
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Feb 12, 2018 22:59
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Just rename this thread "40k Discussion for books you half remember"
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Feb 12, 2018 22:59
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chaos are the good guys in 40k because their political beliefs are the same as divine's in pink flamingos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2YVRu09nAo&t=14s
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Feb 12, 2018 23:13
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Whorelord posted:chaos are the good guys in 40k because their political beliefs are the same as divine's in pink flamingos Fun Fact: Divine didn't die, s/he ascended to daemonhood and became a Keeper of Secrets.
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Feb 12, 2018 23:26
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Squizzle posted:were the warp zone monsters actually corruptive in the earlier framing or was that just the product of the game satirically presenting the setting thru the human cultures interpretive lens the warp and its denizens weren't always necessarily predatory versus flesh beings and realspace, but they're shaped by the emotions of sentient critters in the material galaxy, and the galaxy in 40k was an insanely terrible place for a long time before the human imperium conquered most of it to rule in misery for 10k years. some species have gods in the warp separate from the big four chaos gods but the last big pantheon like that, the space elves' gods, self-owned into near extinction around 25k by 40k the only entities at large in the warp belong to the chaos gods, whose main shtick is wanting to merge their hell dimension and material space
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Feb 12, 2018 23:42
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Just rename this thread "40k Discussion for books you half remember" I'm totally cool with this though I don't know much about it, so I'm going to be on the sidelines saying " this game is poo poo and you guys pay WAY too much for your miniatures. In scale modelling even a big tank is like $30-"
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Feb 12, 2018 23:53
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zeal posted:the warp and its denizens weren't always necessarily predatory versus flesh beings and realspace, but they're shaped by the emotions of sentient critters in the material galaxy, and the galaxy in 40k was an insanely terrible place for a long time before the human imperium conquered most of it to rule in misery for 10k years. some species have gods in the warp separate from the big four chaos gods but the last big pantheon like that, the space elves' gods, self-owned into near extinction around 25k Like this, I have no idea what this is GET OFF MY LAWN 
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Feb 12, 2018 23:56
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Horseshoe theory is the left and the right both knowing way too much about 40k
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Feb 13, 2018 00:08
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Imagine if these kid s were smoking dope id wqtch rescue rangers then tailspin just to get to gargoyles
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Feb 13, 2018 00:12
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zeal posted:the warp and its denizens weren't always necessarily predatory versus flesh beings and realspace, but they're shaped by the emotions of sentient critters in the material galaxy, and the galaxy in 40k was an insanely terrible place for a long time before the human imperium conquered most of it to rule in misery for 10k years. some species have gods in the warp separate from the big four chaos gods but the last big pantheon like that, the space elves' gods, self-owned into near extinction around 25k I did always like that the Eldar literally orgied the last of the four Chaos Gods into existence, destroying their own civilization in the process and creating the Eye of Terror.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:12
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm totally cool with this though I don't know much about it, so I'm going to be on the sidelines saying " this game is poo poo and you guys pay WAY too much for your miniatures. In scale modelling even a big tank is like $30-" You're not wrong
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Feb 13, 2018 00:22
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Al! posted:i guess you'd have to accept the concept of a pan-human government that regularly murders its citizens by the billions with impunity in the name of racial purity is inherently not a good thing Even in that respect, they used to be WAY BETTER AT being a pan-human government that regularly murders its citizens by the billions with impunity in the name of racial purity.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:40
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A big part of the development of giant robot series through the early '80s was explicitly making an, often minority or at least lower-class by local standards, everyman civilian into the main character while unceremoniously disposing of every war hero and minor noble with the pedagogical focus of completely pushing the great man theory out of childrens' minds. A big part of the development of giant robot series as a profitable enterprise even with lower birthrates was turning around and ensuring that the most memorable and marketable bit players were suddenly the in-universe equivalent of International Brigade members who then enlisted, manned AA cannons at Pearl Harbor before fighting across the Sahara, landed at Normandy, and took their long-postponed R&R in the form of a leisurely jaunt across the Pacific as the Enola Gay's flight engineer. 'Cause that way, not only can you sell an extra model with the fin antenna, you can sell five extra models across the history of the conflict each with an added fin antenna. The end result is more bombast and noble's-burden in the newer serious weapons of war ones than in the continuing mechanical superhero ones they mostly supplanted.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:50
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Yeah, gently caress the Zabis and those idiot upper level Federation officers. Buncha jabronis.
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Feb 13, 2018 14:26
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Feb 13, 2018 17:26
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 I really enjoyed the Danish film Samson and Sally as a kid.  Samson and Sally is a very dark and melancholy animated film about a whale (Samson) that befriends another whale (Sally) after her pod is killed by human whalers. Together they seek out the legendary Moby Dick, and along the way they encounter... * Oil spills * Radioactive waste * Leftover sea mines * Rising sea levels Upon finding Moby Dick in a sunken 20th-century city, they discover he is really old and boring. The film ends with Samson the whale joining up with his pod again to live out his boring life, disillusioned.  A+ film would recommend for its not so subtle environmental messaging, particularly if you enjoyed The Land Before Time
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Feb 13, 2018 20:06
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Man Musk posted:The Land Before Time The saddest film I have ever seen. Why did adults take me to see this? I still cannot re-watch it.
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Feb 13, 2018 21:08
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Man Musk posted:
Kids films have a weird history of being scarring to children because ADULTS WANT YOU TO VALUE THIS "The Plauge Dogs" and "Watership Down" being two good examples I visited my sister's family not long ago (I have two nieces, age six and eight) and the older one in particular is a bit high strung They were watching Spirit on netflix, (for those who are not six year old girls - Spirit is a TV show about girls and horses in Montana...sometime) and my older niece had to run out of the room when things got a bit heavy with some rear end in a top hat rancher kidnapping natives and taking their horses away. One thing I got to do with my nieces was watch the original Wizard of Oz with them. They found it scary in two places: the tornado, and the bit where the wicked witch sets some sort of spell with that hourglass. [I'm not sure if you've watched the Wizard of Oz as an adult, but that bit is even more surreal than you might think - the threat is never explicitly stated except that 'Dorothy will die', and I think they get out of it just by smashing the hourglass.] My sister told me after (I didn't realize this) was that my older niece is particularly scared of natural disasters like tornadoes - though fortunately the tornado sequence doesn't go on too long. Or rather, the filmmakers very cleverly broke it up: the real tornado is scary and foreboding; then Dorthy gets clonked on the head, and we get a comic interlude which defuses the tension. (At the end of that sequence, you get a moment that seriously gives me chills just thinking about it - the moment when the mean spinster who wanted toto put down turns into the wicked witch. I'm not quite sure what it is, but this moment is genuinely like something out of a nightmare for me. That character goes from being badness concealed to howling into the storm with delight, reveling in it.) My niece is also very afriad of volcanoes and at one point my sister had to say she didn't need to worry about that, as there are 'no volcanoes around here.' (My Sister lives in the farm country of SW Ontario.) Anyway, my point is: Jesus filmmakers some kids are really sensitive, y'mind not making manipulative as gently caress films because you want to colonize kids with your fears? If this thread proves anything, it's that the soft touch works a hell of a lot better
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Feb 13, 2018 21:30
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I did always like that the Eldar literally orgied the last of the four Chaos Gods into existence, destroying their own civilization in the process and creating the Eye of Terror. my favorite bit about 40k is that the biggest baddest ork warboss in the galaxy is named after margaret thatcher
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Feb 13, 2018 21:35
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Nebakenezzer posted:Kids films have a weird history of being scarring to children because ADULTS WANT YOU TO VALUE THIS I feel that those filmmakers have more respect for children than filmmakers who make everything happy and candy coated. Children need to learn that the world isn't always a good place, that tragedy and evil exist, and all you can do is make your way as best you can.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:30
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SimonCat posted:I feel that those filmmakers have more respect for children than filmmakers who make everything happy and candy coated. Children need to learn that the world isn't always a good place, that tragedy and evil exist, and all you can do is make your way as best you can. i think you can learn that by just existing in the world tho
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Feb 13, 2018 23:31
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Squizzle posted:i think you can learn that by just existing in the world tho Yeah, I mean that knowledge comes soon enough anyway And you're sorta missing my point about "you can teach that poo poo anyway, but you don't need to make kids miserable while doing so"
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Feb 14, 2018 00:15
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topic of discussion: how close is Conglomo in Rocko's Modern Life to Amazon irl?
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Feb 14, 2018 01:27
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Nebakenezzer posted:Kids films have a weird history of being scarring to children because ADULTS WANT YOU TO VALUE THIS maybe these kids need to stop being weenies and watch the end of raiders of the lost ark unsupervised
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Feb 14, 2018 02:00
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