TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Ugh, I can't believe people are still falling for Fred Hicks's obvious scam of combining audience engagement with prompt and cheerful customer service.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2018 19:01

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:08

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Evil Mastermind posted:

Hahaha holy poo poo. This is totally a "I slept through the last 20+ years of RPG design" project.

Yep, yet another person who think RPG design froze in 1981 with the publication of the AD&D DMG 1E.

Holy poo poo, no levels! *begins to stagger and reel from the very thought of it*

# ¿ Mar 2, 2018 07:02

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Kai Tave posted:

Yeah, as funny as it is to think about a Guardians of the Galaxy movie, of all things, becoming a hugely anticipated hit movie, the fact is that it's not really all that unusual. If it had been the very first Marvel movie, sure, it would have been a weird choice, but GotG benefited from nine previous movies which ranged from "merely decently successful" to "record breakingly successful," all wrapped up in the Marvel brand which is way, way bigger than D&D. GotG was built on an extremely solid, successful franchise six years in the making at that point.

It was a measure of just how powerful the Marvel Cinematic brand had become. GotG is at best a c-list Marvel comics property. The pop-culture footprint for Groot and Star-Lord and Drax is vanishingly small (compared to Spider-Man or the Hulk or the X-Men) and yet GotG became a massive hit because a billion-dollar global audience has that much trust in the quality of Marvel's offerings. It's pretty astonishing. Not even Pixar at its mid-00s height managed that.

I also think the success of GotG showed that there was a big market out there hungry for fun, fast-moving, sci-fi action adventure movies, one that George Lucas just absolutely refused to cater to (preferring instead to grudgingly trickle out movies about trade negotiations and galactic senate resolutions). GotG moved into the niche that Star Wars had left completely empty, and was rewarded for it.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2018 23:53

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

It's appalling that people are making money off of the hard work of others! Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go back to filing the serial numbers off of John Carter novels and applying Photoshop filters to the production stills of kung fu movies.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2018 09:15

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

My bold, visionary corporate concept: a workplace, but one where people gently caress all the time.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2018 21:55

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Nuns with Guns posted:

In Black Panther, Michael B Jordan had his Killmonger outfit modeled on Vegeta's armor. Yes, this does mean he was cosplaying for a large portion of a major superhero blockbuster film.

Here's MBJ on some talk show holding up a card on which he's written his biggest weakness

Dude's a straight-up weeb (and a superb actor).

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 16:57

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Isn't that the plot of The Warriors?

Warriors was Xenophon's Anabasis except with NYC street gangs.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2018 23:23

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

dwarf74 posted:

Whoa, Sean Patrick Fannon has been doing TT stuff forever.

fake edit: Wow, maybe it's just overly-careful wording, but his quotes make him sound creepy af

Yeah, got his start doing D6 Star Wars stuff for old WEG and 4E Hero supplements.

Also - yikes, what a creeplord.

# ¿ May 1, 2018 18:20

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

It's such a privileged old white guy move, to think that you can explain your way out of everything.

# ¿ May 1, 2018 19:07

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Holy poo poo, the RPGnet thread. Dude writes a zillion words, and half of them have to redacted by the mods because he names names and posts private correspondence.

Been a while since I saw a self-immolation burn so brightly and hotly.

# ¿ May 2, 2018 01:39

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

NinjaDebugger posted:

I mean... that's basically the whole of arthurian literature. It's all dudes following their boners into trouble from start to end.

Pendragon captures this really well - knight PCs have well defined passions and strong personality traits that can drag them into thematically-appropriate trouble during the course of an adventure.

# ¿ May 24, 2018 20:40

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

S.J. posted:

Okay but is Mekton Zeta any good or is it as awfully 80s/90s as it looks?

It was the Loyal Opposition to Battletech in the 1980s, and it concentrated much more on hewing close to its original anime source materials than Battletech (with its Mad Max-ish setting and its concentration on things like heat management). All my anime nerd friends far preferred it to BT (I think the default setting was Gundam-with-the-numbers-filed-off, which also appealed to them).

The system and presentation is very 1980s, though.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2018 12:38

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

LOL at inviting questions and then responding to a printed list of numbered and clearly stated questions with "can't we just jump on Skype and talk this over?"

Surely, this is a company with nothing to hide.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2018 23:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Serf posted:

how about you just tell us who it is

LOL it's MSW.

Playing "I've got a secret" is pretty much his only gimmick.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2018 15:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

BGG has an entry for Pimp: the Backhanding here, including lots of pictures of the cards.

The Deep Fat Fry Daddy ("Three pounds of cold steel and a half gallon of hot grease"), seen here, gives you +2 to your Backhanding roll when you play it.

And when do you make Backhanding rolls? Why, during the Backhanding Phase, of course!

Pimp: the Backhanding rulebook posted:

The Backhanding Phase

Now is the time to backhand your opponents� ho�s.
You�ve missed your chance to get these harlots
on your payroll, but you can at least ruin your
rivals� business by knocking the teeth out of his
legion of whores, leaving them unfit for hooking.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2018 13:39

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Nuns with Guns posted:

Ahahahaha, Jesus Christ

The rape game defender has most definitely Logged On.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 03:54

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Also bear in mind buying a game line can be similarly expensive. you just don't think of it that way because you're nickeled and dimed.

Granted, is a shelf of Vampire: the Requiem or whatever more or less valuable than Invisible Sun? In any case, if Invisible Sun is privileged, wouldn't any game line of sufficient size be equivalent?

Hobbies, by definition, are kind of expensive. Want to get into golf? Or woodworking? Or photography? Or SCUBA diving? Or mountain biking? Stamp collecting? Music production? A current -gen gaming console and a couple of AAA titles? Skiing? Civil War reenacting? Ever price a good set of chef's knives and copper-bottomed pans? Or buy season tickets for a sports team? All of this costs money, usually quite a bit.

RPGs, by contrast, are cheap. Most people participate in the hobby by buying a single corebook, maybe a splatbook or two, and a set of funny dice. Lots of people manage to spend even less than that. Cook's ridiculous $500 mystery-campaign-in-a-box for people with more money than sense is at the highest end of ridiculous RPG spending, and it's still a bargain compared to any other hobby.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 04:44

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Also: looks like someone is taking another crack at a Dune RPG

quote:

Gale Force Nine(GF9) has reached a multi-year licensing agreement with Legendary Entertainment and Herbert Properties, LLC to bring the expansive Dune sci-fi franchise to tabletop gaming.

As master licensee, GF9 will produce original tabletop games drawing from the extensive DUNE franchise � including printed work by Frank Herbert, Brian Herbert, and Kevin J. Anderson, as well as direct tie-ins with Legendary�s upcoming film directed by Denis Villeneuve (see �Animated 'Batman Hush,' Zazie Beetz in Talks for 'Joker,' 'Dune' Casting, 'Prophet' Optioned�).

�This is only the beginning of our big plans in tabletop for this captivating franchise,� said John-Paul Brisigotti, CEO of GF9. �Dune is a rich and wonderful universe, and we expect to produce an equally expansive and inspired line of games for years to come.�

�Gale Force Nine has consistently demonstrated a skill and passion for building successful tabletop game series alongside category leading partners and we are thrilled to announce this exciting addition to the Dune licensing program,� said Jamie Kampel, Vice President of Licensing & Partnerships for Legendary. �Legendary looks forward to a fun and meaningful contribution to this revered legacy property.�

The full range of products, including board and miniatures games, are scheduled to release just prior to the upcoming Dune theatrical release in 2020. GF9 plans to align with other game companies in numerous categories and formats for future releases as well.

�With this master license, we are excited to collaborate with our peers and leverage their unique expertise to realize a complete spectrum of game types and authentic experiences,� said Brisigotti. Slated for late 2019, their first collaboration is a tabletop role-playing game from Modiphius, publisher of popular licensed games including Star Trek Adventures, Fallout: Wasteland Warfare, Conan, Mutant Chronicles, Achtung! Cthulhu, and Tales from the Loop.

The licensing deal was brokered by Joe LeFavi of Genuine Entertainment, who will manage the Dune license for GF9 and assist in business development with Brisigotti.

Herbert Properties LLC is managed by the Herbert family, and is copyright holder for the Dune series. Frank Herbert first published the bestselling Dune in 1965, and wrote five sequels to the popular novel. After his death in 1986, his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson expanded the series with 14 additional books.

So, presumably a 2D20 system game with all the expanded Brian/KJA expanded universe crap folded in.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/41139/exclusive-frank-herberts-dune-comes-tabletop?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 04:48

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Plotus is pretty solid, though I'm always amused at it being one of the few 3.5 settings really designed with high-level spellcasting in mind, so you have a lot of hard walls set up to restrict stuff like summoning or teleporting. It's relatively well thought-out in that regard but also incidentally highlights some of the many ways spellcasters can run roughshod over settings in that game.

IIRC, it was basically the house campaign that he built while they were designing and playtesting 3E, so it was pretty much designed hand-in-glove with that ruleset.

And the price is fine (although a lot to swallow at once). You get more good D20 gaming material out of a $120 Ptolus book than out of $120 worth of, say, Scarred Lands products - and certainly much higher production values.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2018 14:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

I also think this is just part of the current Kickstarter funding model - you need some rare stuff that justifies the high-dollar pledge levels. The RUNEQUEST CLASSIC kickstarter has, as a reward at the $250 level, a copy of the original playtest manuscript from 1979 (hand annotated by the original playtester), and the $1000 level got you this:

quote:

The 3 volume "Unpublished Scenarios and Source Material" set - is three hardcover books with hundreds of pages of unpublished RuneQuest material by Greg Stafford and other early authors. It includes a fair bit of Sorcery rules for the West, the Howling Tower scenario set in the Upland Marsh, as well as a wide range of other material, esoteric and otherwise. This reward is only available as part of this Kickstarter.

I'm a Glorantha superfan and would love to have that, but I'm not willing to bone out a month's rent for a collection of old notes. I'm mildly annoyed that I'll probably never get to see those pages, but I'm happy that 60 people apparently parted with a cool grand each, because that's $60,000 that was used to subsidize the project and keep Chaosium operating. There were super-rare exclusive materials at the top level of the Guide to Glorantha KS, too

quote:

$1500 - PROVINCIAL OVERSEER: You are large and in charge (of the Orlanthi provinces!). MoLaD level, plus a hardcover full color version of the GreGarth Atlas of Lunar Provincial Lore. This amazing collection of hand-drawn historical maps details: the history of Peloria from the Dawn to 1650 in 50 year increments; the history of Prehistoric Peloria; the history of the Lunar Wanes: and a variety of maps showing other important details of the Dara Happan and Lunar Empires. Includes attached notes and commentary from Greg. You can even help design the custom cover.

quote:

$3000 - 7 MOTHERS/LIGHTBRINGERS: MoLaD reward level, plus the ultimate 15 volume "Roots of Glorantha" series of unpublished Gloranthan monographs written by Greg Stafford. Each printed volume is approximate 100 pages in length. You get to pick your favorite 7 Mother or Lightbringer for the cover theme and color. Free shipping included.

Note that you have to pay $4500 to get both.

Again, I'd love to have 1500 pages of unpublished Gloranthan monographs on my shelf, but it's not worth $3000 to me. It was worth $3000 to 13 Gloranthaphiles riched and crazier than me, and hey that's $40,000 more that Chaosium has to work with. All hail those nutcases who are willing to subsidize the continued publishing of my favorite game line with four figures of cold hard cash. I'll just have to be satisfied with my 800-page battleship of a setting guide (for a mere $150).

If you're going to tap big-dollar superfan Whales to help crowdfund your project, almost by definition you're going to have to give them something a little extra, a little exclusive, that isn't available to people pledging at a lower level. So it goes.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2018 03:10

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Good news! Far West has started shipping!

...and by "shipping" I mean GMS has emailed out the handful of preview chapters he circulated years ago, only with every mention of "D20" replaced with a "D6", so literally nothing new.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2018 22:55

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

quote:

[We] apologize in advance for simplifying (and potentially misrepresenting) their arguments in our attempt to make a game about radio-powered cyborg revolutionaries fighting a fascist military occupation.

Look at this chickenshit right here, a "just kidding, bro!" get-out-of-jail-free card in case he loses an argument to someone who took his game seriously. "It's just a game about radio-powered cyborg revolutionaries fighting a fascist military occupation, bro! You really should relax!". Nice trying to have it both ways, always the mark of a sincere and well-thought-out set of ideas.

gently caress this game.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2018 00:01

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

I still can't get over the fact that in every single one of these grognard-speaks-to-the-camera videos, the person looks and sounds exactly like you expect them to.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2018 13:44

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Jimbozig posted:

Not surprising to me. When I am in the market for a fiction book, I don't think of an RPG company as the place to go for quality. Their books may have been great or terrible - I didn't try read any, but they sure didn't look like a good gamble.

As for board games, I really couldn't say what makes a board game do well. But it seems like an industry where you either get lucky and have a big success, or you end up struggling to break even. And it certainly has far larger costs and risks than printing RPG books.

Board games seem like a real tough place to make a living, especially if you're not one of the bigs like Asmodee or FFG. Such high production costs, and so much competition, not just from new games but from people's existing collections (the biggest reason I've slowed my boardgame purchasing down to a trickle is because I'm so short on time to play, and storage space). The only way to break through is with a big-name designer, a big marketing campaign, or a big license, which makes an already high-cost business even more so. Unless you've got some pre-existing property or fanbase to leverage, making board games at this particular moment is just a real steep road to climb.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2018 04:49

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Piell posted:

The intro is some dumb bullshit full of OSR/grognard signifiers.

It's like all the intentionally over-the-top fanboy nonsense from the front of HackMaster, but real. Cripes.

Speaking of DCC...

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 23:08

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Mors Rattus posted:

free-roaming afro

3 Hit Dice, % in lair: 30%, drops Treasure Types E and H

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 23:15

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

paradoxGentleman posted:

e:hahahha holy poo poo that subhuman thing

Hey now, TheDiceMustRoll may have bad game opinions, but there's really no need to get insulting.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2018 17:26

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Hey, it's been almost a year since Green Ronin promised that they'd produce a timeline that would completely and satisfactorily explain how they managed to keep a creeplord predator on staff and bury any and all complaints about him and his behavior despite being 100% committed to providing a safe space for marginalized and abused people and 100% believing victims.

Huh.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2018 21:59

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Comrade Gorbash posted:

This thread�s true purpose is as a honey trap for people who don�t understand basic concepts of economics, labor, and/or production and refuse to do even minimal research to learn about them.

Way back in the misty before-times I proposed the Iron Law of Grognards.TXT, which was that "Nerds + Economics = Hilarity, Every Time"

Nice to see, even with the withering away of grogs.txt, that it still holds 100% true.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2018 16:33

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Joe Slowboat posted:

Biomute is clearly misapplying Marxian labor-value, as understood in the context of factory production, and also thinks Mage: The Awakening is a terrible game.

Why engage at all?

Clowning on people who are being stupid on the internet is kind of the foundational purpose of this website and these forums.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2018 16:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Kai Tave posted:

No there wasn't, you posted a bunch of dumb poo poo and got called on it, then decided to double down with this weak-rear end puppetmaster defense. gently caress off.

Literally an IRL example of

# ¿ Nov 6, 2018 23:58

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

I thought this passage was strong, and gets to exactly what the Swedracula/Zakattack version of the WoD got wrong

quote:

Horror should not be afraid to explore difficult or sensitive topics, but it should never do so without understanding who those topics are about and what it means to them. Real evil does exist in the world, and we can�t ever excuse its real perpetrators or cheapen the suffering of its real victims.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2018 19:21

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Comrade Gorbash posted:

Apparently 7 whole chapters of Far West were sent to backers.

If you need me, I�ll be digging a bunker to hide in since surely this is a sign of the end of days.

Aren't they the same seven chapters he sent around years ago, only with all the "D20"s scratched out and replaced with "D6"s?

# ¿ Nov 27, 2018 04:53

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Meinberg posted:

That�s quite brazen of them, like almost insultingly so. Like, I wouldn�t harass the staff but I don�t think that Green Ronin has the right to call anyone an ally.

Kind of on point, given how lovely most self-proclaimed �allies� turn out to be in practice.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2018 23:26

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Slow-moving book stock gets pulped all the time. I'm a little surprised they didn't dump in on some discount book wholesaler for pennies on the dollar, but maybe the subject matter made that too much hassle.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2018 17:18

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Evil Mastermind posted:

I've talked before about how there a few game stores near me that have stacks of unsold 3.x third party books they're never going to unload because they still charge full price for them. RPG stocking all about the sunk cost fallacy on physical books.

I love this thinking, that someday someone is going to wander into The Android's Dungeon and see that shelfworn copy of Mongoose's THE QUINTESSENTIAL RANGER II crammed on the back shelf and be like "Holy poo poo! I've been looking for this one for ages! And it's still just list price! It's my lucky fuckin' day!".

# ¿ Dec 5, 2018 17:27

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Mors Rattus posted:

Short form? Robot Gillyman has gone 'wait, why have you guys gone full Nazi? I...I have to fix this, don't I' and is trying to unfuck the Imperium. The Orks remain Orks, and my understanding is that the Tyranid Hive-Fleets are all getting more characterization via their tactical and strategic methods. The Tau...well, the Tau are a mixed bag, we get the end of the Evil Space Pope angle and walking back the mind control, but the introduction of Tau who are somewhat Chaos-tainted which makes very little sense. My 40k friends seem to be enjoying these changes; I'm mostly a Fantasy guy.

They also seems to be bringing back armies and factions from earlier editions that were mostly written out of the game by later editions. So things like Harlequins and Imperial Knights and Genestealer Cults and the Mechanicus are back in the main game (no sign of Squats, though)

# ¿ Dec 17, 2018 21:42

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Xiahou Dun posted:

Gaelic has a really complicated sound system where sounds change depending on neighboring sounds, but they represent this by putting in other letters (like random vowels and all those god drat h's) to show that a sound change happened because you put the word next to a vowel or whatever. This would be a lot more clear with diacritics or something like that, but some random monk came up with this and refused to use anything besides the roman letters he already knew.

Basically a lot of bullshit about spelling in most European languages can be chalked up to "some loving rando monk thought this made sense in the 7th century and now we're stuck with it".

Bonus points if you can guess the plural of "geas" without googling it.

Geasa?

# ¿ Dec 20, 2018 17:27

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Xiahou Dun posted:

You cheated. Shenanigans.

(Yes.)

No, I actually did remember that. Guess I've read too many pseudoCeltic fantasy novels in my life.

My favorite obscure Englishism is the adjective (and it's spelling and pronunciation) for referring to George Bernard Shaw and his works (like Orwellian or Kafkaesque)

# ¿ Dec 20, 2018 17:34

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 20:08

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Dawgstar posted:

"Pirates are BIG now," John said, ignoring the public's disenchantment and boredom with innumerable Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

It's funny, because when 7S came around for the first time (in 1999) it was that rare instance of RPGs getting ahead of pop culture. See also: Space 1889 prefiguring Steampunk, and Dark Conspiracy and Delta Green arriving before X-Files defined the UFO/conspiracy 1990s.

There was a decently budgeted pirate show on Starz called Black Sails that ran for four seasons, earned approving reviews, and then faded away without making any kind of cultural impression. Pirates are a spent force, here in the 2010s.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2018 19:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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