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Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

A wise Guy, eh...

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Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

I don't discount the likelihood that a Turnbull backer was the one spreading the rumours about Dutton and Bishop in order to force the two of them to pledge allegiance to him and squash the whole thing before next week.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-05/home-buyers-borrowing-capacity-to-be-cut-by-35-per-cent/9621696

quote:

Homebuyers' borrowing capacity could be cut by up to 40 per cent under tougher rules

Good article about the benchmarks that banks have to use to assess how a person's income relates to their lifestyle spending habits and therefore how much they can borrow.

If this comes in, either gradually or all at once it will be the shock that many people have been waiting for in the housing market, because suddenly a whole sector of would-be home owners will drop out of the market.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

They are also some of the least likely to ever vote labor so shorten couldn’t give a poo poo.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

It's an increasingly well known thing these days that the younger demographic are steering hard left and their parents/grandparents are divided because while they have their own self interest to deal with, they're also seeing their progeny struggling and wanting to help. Newspoll reflects it, as do a bunch of other polls, and so Labor (and the Groins) can quite happily target policies that specifically help the younger generations at the expense of wealthy seniors and not lose a smidge of support.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

Honestly we should just confiscate all super and replace it with a doubling of the retirement pension (and newstart) and be done with it.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

aejix posted:

I want to believe this is happening but have massive doubts about that actually being the case - where do you look to prove it?

Here's a few:

The Saturday Paper (One free article per week):
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2018/04/07/turnbull-and-the-boomer-racket/15230232006058

Croikey (sub): this one is about Newspoll being ridiculously consistent over the last few years, basically pointing to the same phenomena:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/04/09/poll-bludger-how-bad-luck-factors-into-turnbulls-newspoll-problem/

and of course here's Grundle waxing lyrical about why the LNP seem stuck where they are:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/04/09/turnbull-isnt-the-problem/

If you don't have a crikey sub The Saturday Paper article should be enough.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

MysticalMachineGun posted:

What? No. That's stupid.

What we should do is fix the stupid system so people with huge amounts of super don't get the following:

1. The pension
2. Franking credits
3. Any position to speak from at all. If you have over $2M in super you cannot call talkback radio or appear in newspaper columns

Why should we continue fixing a system that rewards hoarding during your working life in the promise of a comfortable retirement? That just creates a perfect alignment of class with age, and has put us in the situation we're in now.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

The funniest part about the irony for me is that fewer and fewer people in the younger generations are taking the risk to start their own business, because they either do not have the startup capital or they are too risk averse after years of being hosed around with or not getting raises or whatever.

When you have significantly less people starting businesses than before, you lose a large chunk of people who may even remotely align with the whole LNP "Business is good" ideology, because people are more inclined to vote in their self interest, and if their self interest is based on being a wage or salary worker, guess who they're more likely to vote for?

E: While it would be cool to have more people forming businesses (just because it adds to diversity in the economy), I will not miss the side effect of having more people running around thinking their struggle as an entrepreneur means "all the rest of you should stop punishing success".

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

ewe2 posted:

This is how the majors think, that the system can't possibly go on without them. You're thinking too bi-camerally (an adverb i just made up). Far more likely is a coalition of minor parties sharing preferences or enough primary vote to weld them into a new party. Now multiply that and we could have as many as five parties with enough primary that can't be ignored but not enough to govern outright. That's where I think we're headed.


Think earlier. BTW, if anyone cares to make a historical timeline of australian parties infographic (because I can find none, but there are heaps of really good American ones), you'll be Twitter famous. We really need something like that. Anyway, I'm loathe to depend on Wikipedia but you can start with their list and you can see that outside the main federal sphere there's a whole bunch of whackjobs out in the sticks, and some of them have been around for quite a while. But where you should start is here. Just read the unadorned facts about the first few elections. It should ring a bell. That's right, coalitions and minority governments started us off. Then we got some bicameral action up to the outbreak of WW1, which an ill-judged double dissolution by the Libs which gave ALP power (it backfired that time). Then coalitions welded into new parties and Billy Hughes happened and things went downhill for Labor, especially in 1923 when the Bruce-Page Nationalist-Country Coalition (there's a mouthful) came in. Anyway, you get the idea. The primary vote has shifted this way and that even after preferential voting was introduced in 1918. All it's really done is hold back the tide for the majors for a few decades.

We've been living in a dreamworld since the 50's and it's time to wake up.

But this ignores material conditions and improvements in tech. At the start of the last century the only mass communication medium was the newspaper and the telegraph, then radio, TV, and now the internet. With each leap has come consolidation and a shuffling of power amongst politics. The main thing the majors are adjusting to now is social media because it's a low-effort "Letters to the Editor" without a filter writ large. It might be high time for a schism in politics to adjust to this but it'd be foolish to assume the majors can't co-opt it in their own interests right now.

Bernardi's move of setting up "Australian Conservatives" was quite clever because he took the name that a chunk of the LNP actually call themselves, so he's sitting over on the sidelines cheerfully waving at them to cross the line. Don't be surprised if many of the existing LNP incumbents make the move after they lose the next election because by then they will have nothing to lose, especially if they all do it in unison.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

ewe2 posted:

We can't see how "clever" it is until the election. But I doubt he has that kind of pull, many of them dislike him personally and they sure as hell won't take orders from him. Everything I see about Bernardi says "idealistic egotist" which is by no means unusual in a politician, just not so much a successful one, it's the pragmatic egotists you have to watch out for. He's a great salesman, but a leader, not so much.

True, I guess I was mostly saying it's clever because he has co-opted the name of the ideology as the name for his party. Having the leadership of the LNP running around saying "we like markets and business but also conservative family values" will only gel with the hard right conservatives for so long until they all decide to hold their nose and jump ship, hoping to co-opt the party out of Bernardi's hands and into their own.

The guy who jumped back in the other direction in SA did so because he saw an opportunity to influence the actual power of the parliament instead of sitting out on the fringes. That was just a calculus. If the federal LNP are on the opposite side with no sway over legislation then some of the old boys will have nothing to lose, especially if they've already alienated large lumps of their party.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

JBP posted:

It's also no surprise that people are backing in Turnbull because there's literally no one else

I have a feeling that the "literally nobody else" argument is largely because of the profile Turnbull built during his time in the wilderness, and not necessarily because there is literally nobody else in the party competent enough for the job.

Once they're turfed out and Turnbull drops his seat you'll see a few more nonames come out of the woodwork to assert themselves and after a while a clear runner will emerge and it'll all be on again. Best of all it won't be anybody who's in the ministry at the moment because they're all basted with the taint of an unpopular and harsh government, both this one and abbott's.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

ewe2 posted:

I'll post this again because it's still funny and still relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yvC8-Y4hk0

I know I'm old and still remember this stuff, but I can't remember anything Brendan Nelson loving said outside trying to look more beige than Simon Crean.

Abbott was a sign that things had really changed in the party. Up to then whenever a governing leader was felled they'd put a moderate in: Hewson, Downer, Nelson, all moderates. I can't fault anyone for not picking up on Abbott, he just happened to be very loud and promised the world and they couldn't believe their luck that it worked. But now they have to eat their own, and there's nothing in the barrel. I think Les Affaires is right but mainly because the party itself has no idea how to follow Turnbull or he'd have been toppled by now. It depends on the next lying loudmouth and they'll put anyone up just to stop that narrative like the last time.

They know how to follow Turnbull, they just don't want to. It requires a policy pragmatism that accepts that certain things they held to be true may have applied once upon a time but don't anymore. That part hurts to admit, it's hard to move away from, and is politically damaging.

You're right though. When Turnbull loses (and there's pretty good odds he will), they'll find another moderate to take the fall to the election or shortly after it, they'll sit tight and wait for another charismatic dickhead like Abbott to rear his head, put him in place and hope that the electorate falls for it again. But it won't last forever, because their core demographic is dying rapidly, or at least finding it harder to get to the polling booth. By that point, the LNP will have had their crisis of either dying with their ideology intact or reforming somewhere further to the left (maybe not as far as the groins or labor) and just accepting electoral oblivion for the time being.

FWIW part of the core tenet of Liberal party ideology (not nationals though lol) is the primacy of the market and there's merit to that principle, but the shift in thinking that has happened recently is that the primacy is only beneficial in certain cases and is actually damaging some sectors and has been for a while now. Housing is a great example of where a social good has been hosed by a poorly regulated market and has been partly responsible for that political shift. I'm watching Frydenberg's national press club address and the NEM is actually a good thing but again, only if the market functions, and functions towards a reasonably social end.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Why does new train lines mean he is toast?

It's what happens when they know they're hosed at the next election because they're trying to buy votes.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

If the entire success of your speaking tour rested on the shoulders of one person at the border assessing your intentions why the hell would you be dumb enough to not do your research beforehand?

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

DancingShade posted:

It probably also helps to get the right visa or something first too.

That's what I meant really. Do your research, find out whether there's a visa for what you need to do, and when in doubt, get one that is more permissive than the one you need.

Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004

Proposed crossover: Euro Space Truck Simulator

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Les Affaires
Nov 15, 2004


"My right hand man"

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