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Muzzle is a great song but I never got why it was quieter than the rest of the songs on the album.
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Feb 12, 2020 09:25
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I wasn't that surprised by the Krist thing when I saw some video a while back of him in his home. He lives in some secluded complex in the middle of nowhere and the decor etc. was nothing like you'd imagine the bass player from Nirvana to have. The beard and sorta combover combined with his professor attire and way he talked made it obvious he'd stepped over to the other side and was very comfortable there. Seemed like the kinda guy Kurt would hit with his guitar. As for Billy I'm still just waiting for the Machina reissues I mean come on man 2020 sucks we need this 
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Jun 14, 2020 09:12
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If anybody cares given the current mess regarding Lowtax and more domestic abuse:Jon Joe posted:
Kaedric posted:https://breadnroses.net/ WampaLord posted:Anyone who wants an invite, just go to https://breadnroses.net/ and register, I will approve, let me know the username you select if it is different. BreadnRoses already has a lot of people who've moved over, seems rad and actually has good QOL features SA doesn't have (dark mode is freakin' nice). If you want to register they're letting everyone in for free while GBS burns and the entire admin/mod team is in some kind of standoff with Lowtax for apparently beating a third woman so yeah. Hopefully we can all discuss the eventual rerelease of Machina over there seeing as this place seems to be imploding. It's pretty cool and worth checking out.
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Jun 25, 2020 00:31
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Please, please, please! Donate! To RAINN!
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These new tracks just make me think of how Adore did all of this much better and remains timeless while this will sound dated in a few years.Noise Machine posted:The last time I heard a Billy Corgan song that made me go "He's still got it" was Wildflower. For me it was As Rome Burns. Would not be out of place alongside the heavier songs from Melon Collie or Machina I/II. Can't believe they never recorded a studio version of it.
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Oct 1, 2020 02:00
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Noise Machine posted:How is everyone not freaking out that the new repackage Machine album (again, not the box set, just the ALBUM) is 55 SONGS??!? I'm freaking out and excited as hell. I have a feeling there might just be a disc of alternate versions that aren't much to get excited about but just getting to hear properly mixed Machina II will be amazing. Anything extra is Christmas as far as I'm concerned, and if there's songs that are from those sessions but unreleased and of similar quality it's going to be incredible. Final Machina album (and however many discs it is) will probably become my favorite Pumpkins record when all is said and done, unless they really screw with the mixing. I love the wall of sound the original album has but I know a lot of people hated it, so I'm worried they might tamper with it and songs possibly get stripped back.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:46
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Noise Machine posted:Billy had that blog about 15 years ago and made some allusions to dabbling in stuff. The band definitely took acid and other psychedelics in the early days, Billy made reference to taking downers or mushrooms when making Adore to unwind and I believe he also said he was taking a lot of ecstacy to cope with a tour, but I can't remember if it was the MCIS tour or the Adore tour. Baron von Eevl posted:Billy did a ton of acid in the early days, especially Gish. Some time after Gish he apparently had a thing where his arm twitched uncontrollably for a long time and he basically swore off drugs after that. This explains him being on Alex Jones and talking about someone turning into a lizard before his very eyes with complete conviction. While laughable at the time, if the above quotes are true it makes me think that it probably did actually happen and was just one of the long-term effects of using the drugs that he did when he was young. He was probably experiencing one of those flashbacks (?) that people who've long stopped taking psychedelics/hallucinogens occasionally get throughout life, only nobody told him and he thinks the world is Baron von Eevl posted:The thing I'm most looking forward to with nuMachina is being able to hear the drums, because something terrible happened in the final mix/master that completely blew everything out and the drums disappeared. Speaking of this and guitar solos, the drumming and guitar during the intro to 'Glass and the Ghost Children' is 
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Oct 26, 2020 14:53
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I remember getting Machina for my birthday along with 'The Fragile' by Nine Inch Nails and it was amazing 
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Oct 26, 2020 20:17
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Probably is. Courtney leaving him for Kurt followed by Nirvana's explosion and Billy's ego compelling him to "officially" end the grunge era with MCIS, it figures he'd be bitter/jealous no matter how much he respected Kurt. People thought he still wasn't over it given the lyrics to Heavy Metal Machine when Machina released.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:41
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Speaking of, I just heard Saturnine on Judas 0 (the electronic-y version) and it's much more polished than the drone-y Machina II version called Satur9 but I hope we get the latter on the Machina reissue because the Judas 0 version is so bad in comparison  I love the way Corgan sings the Machina II version as well, sounds like he has some kind of effect on his voice that's subtle but works really well with the drone.Also had no idea that Soot and Stars was a Machina song but it would fit perfectly and I hope that it makes it into this special version they're putting together.
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Oct 31, 2020 18:08
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My biggest issue with the new Pumpkins is mainly Billy's voice. I think his vocals were the best they've ever been on Machina and when Zeitgeist released? Doomsday Clock started and musically it was great, like they were picking up right where they left off and it was a good start to the album. Then Billy came in and he wasn't singing any more, he was talking instead, and he's just talked through every song since (that I've heard, I don't keep up with new stuff any more). It's weird because imo he has (had?) a really great singing voice but now he just talks and it's one of those things that I can't not notice now that I have. Maybe it's just an age thing? The new guitarist they have is fantastic though. I saw a live performance of The Beginning is the End is the Beginning and his lead work and flourishes were very Billy-like and elevated the song.
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Nov 1, 2020 21:13
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CherryCola posted:I listened to the second half of Mellon Collie while cooking last week and I just...it's hard to put a finger on what Billy lost between then and now. But I think a big part of it is thinking that he's a good singer and that his singing should be front and center. Like the nasally, growly, screamy quality of his vocals were what made him so unique...this is just...I dunno, boring. The problem is that when the Pumpkins reformed and made Zeitgeist, Billy stopped singing and decided he would talk through every song in the future. His vocals kept improving through their initial run and peaked with Machina, where he truly had a good singing voice but still had the range of the growls and screams etc. but after reforming? He hasn't sung in any song, he really does just talk and that's why it sounds so flat and dull and emotionless. I remember when I first heard Zeitgeist and it started brilliantly with Doomsday Clock, it was like classic Pumpkins until Billy's voice came in and he just talked over this great song and completely ruined it. The band is rocking away and he's just talking through it rather than singing or expressing any emotion at all, it's weird as hell.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:58
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hatelull posted:re: Lyrics ... Framboise posted:Machina I, for sure. Machina II is cool but didn't resonate with me much. I guess Let Me Give The World To You is on there but that was a remake of an Adore-era song. Billy saying "We all know I'm full of poo poo" is a very memorable Pumpkins lyric from a banger of a song on Machina II  TOOT BOOT posted:Billy has sucked for longer than he was good at this point. I think maybe a lot of people were hoping the band getting back together would be the secret sauce that was needed but it doesn't appear that happened. Remember the first video from them getting back together where Billy was wearing a cape while shooting lasers out of his eyes and it was hilarious but then for a brief moment the song went quiet and sounded right like a slice of Siamese Dream and people got all excited over it thinking he still had it and... yeah. The only thing I've liked since the band got back together is this and imagining what a studio version in the style of Zero could be like with that guitar solo and his screams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aajvG_qUJQg Hoping a good recording of this somehow turns up on the Machina reissue. It sounds like something from that era that was simply unreleased.
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Dec 3, 2020 13:31
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Nearly forgot this, another great song from the same early reunion era that never made it onto an album. Always wondered why Sasha Grey was in the video but I think Billy went through a phase? Remember something about him dating Tila Tequila  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9klvSGc2ik
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Dec 3, 2020 14:46
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I remember watching an old "Behind the Music" (VH1?) episode about the making of Adore and how it was such a departure for the band after MCIS but it was interesting to see how the band members were quite candid about everything from what happened with Jimmy and how Billy just wanted to evolve (I guess kinda like Radiohead's 'Kid A' moment, but years earlier and with less impact) and I remember how it started with D'Arcy and James clearly not knowing what Billy was trying to do but near the end as the sound came together I remember D'Arcy coming round and getting what Billy was trying to achieve and being fully behind it and articulating quite well what the actual goal was. I think James just kept talking about carrot juice? I forget the exact wording now but I remember it being that after the death of grunge Billy wanted to create something that didn't sound like it belonged to any movement/era/time (the word for this escapes me right now) and I think he mostly succeeded with that. The album is 22 years old and really wouldn't seem that out of place being released today, in my opinion, because some songs just have not dated at all (Daphne Descends is a particular favorite and good example of this).
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Dec 3, 2020 16:59
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I wonder what Sandoz's real name was. Maybe Carlos?
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Dec 3, 2020 17:34
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God drat now that I've discovered it I really hope that Soot & Stars makes it onto this Machina issue, whenever it is. I saw Billy had posted stuff about it on his Instagram not long ago but the wait has been so long when they got through the other album reissues fairly quickly. Am I going crazy or did he say something somewhere about not just making the original version of the album, but that it may actually be 3 discs rather than the original double album envisioned? There's clearly a tremendous amount of great songs to compile and put together and I'm sure that whatever form the final release takes will still be missing some stuff he recorded during the sessions that we might never know of. I just hope that he doesn't try to re-record vocals or mess with that noise/drone-y version of Satur9 too much aside from getting it mixed and produced to be less quiet when it feels like it should be a real booming wall-of-sound type of song. It sounds like there's some subtle effects on Billy's voice at certain points as well, no idea what it is but it works so well with that version of the song. Come on 2021, we need this
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Dec 31, 2020 14:24
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I still maintain that post-reunion Billy simply does not sing, he just talks. Pre-breakup, his vocals were the best they have ever been and he actually had a really pleasant singing voice on Machina while still retaining the versatility and harshness for the heavier stuff as well. His voice had so much character and I think it essentially peaked at that point. I know that Zwan came afterwards and of course the solo thing but I think there was a period of a few years or so where he wasn't really doing anything and might have forgotten what he can do with a mic. It could also just be age as well, some live performances have shown he can't hit those clear higher notes that he could before, either from singing or screaming. I watched a live performance on YouTube where Howard Stern had the band in the studio playing Bullet with Butterfly Wings and some vocals were skipped entirely by Billy. Stern was fascinated by Billy and James' guitar parts having a subtle difference and complimenting each other well and when asking James he just said he didn't know why what he was playing differed. It was actually interesting hearing the main riffs broken down and separated by both and then played together because I had no idea. Stern ended by saying James is a pretty chill guy and doesn't get why he and Billy couldn't get along for so many years and Jimmy tries to hold back laughter in the background Speaking of, revisiting some older SP material recently leaves me wondering how the grunge movement ended with Dave Grohl being hailed as such an amazing drummer (I mean he's great, but he ain't on Jimmy's level at all imo) but nobody ever really talks about Jimmy who is just so utterly phenomenal. Maybe it was the MCIS drugs tragedy but the guy really should be up there as one of the best in the business. Dave's more entertaining to watch when he gets into it but I can't even keep up with what Jimmy is doing in some songs because of the sheer speed and versatility, and watching him play he's just sat there like it's another day in the office  Edit: Also curious why Jimmy hasn't played with other bands like Dave has, either. He's probably the only drummer who could actually play the drums for NIN's Perfect Drug live and he would probably work magic with some guest spots on QOTSA albums. Maybe he's just very quiet and reserved, happy doing Pumpkins stuff and staying out the spotlight? Would be fascinated to know if bands which have changing lineups have ever contacted him, though. I'd have thought Reznor and Homme in particular would be dying to have him play with them. SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 18:56
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polyester concept posted:Also Grohl was never popular as the Nirvana drummer, he only got fame as the frontman of Foo Fighters afterward. Then people were like, oh yeah, he is an amazing drummer too. That's interesting because although Nirvana were sort of before my time (I was too young when Kurt took his life and didn't really get into music until a few years later) I always thought Dave's drumming was very distinctive and songs like Scentless Apprentice or his drumming on QOTSA's Song for the Dead stand out as "Yup, that's Dave" before the songs even really start, just because of his particular style being what it is. I don't know if there was any truth to it but I could swear I read somewhere that prior to his death Kurt was seriously contemplating firing Dave as Nirvana's drummer and I just cannot imagine anybody being a better fit for that style and sound at all. At the same time Kurt's last interview (I think?) had him saying he was interested in going in a completely different direction after In Utero and maybe exploring a new wave style but who knows if he was serious or joking, but he seemed very honest and candid with everything he talked about in the interview (his kid, a book he loved, his fascination with medical stuff etc.) so maybe he really was planning to ditch Dave and go somewhere new? Also thanks for that video Rupert, that was really cool to watch and I envy the people there. I wonder if it was short with just those two songs and a little talking or he was there for an hour or two? Amusingly, a recommended video that pops up after watching that is Butch Vig talking about all the drummers he's worked with and the comment section is full of Chamberlin lovers. Hearing him speak in the Chicago video makes him come across as a really chill and humble guy so it's nice seeing so many people appreciate his talent. Edit: polyester concept posted:Also, there are a bunch of amazing drummers that are relatively unknown. Forgot this but you just reminded me of this which is absolutely freakin' adorable. Apparently Dave Grohl actually contacted her and they've played together, and Lenny Kravitz bought her a brand new kit and has jammed with her online? If she's this good at only ten years old then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFk9pvsbPL4 SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 7, 2021 |
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Jan 7, 2021 01:37
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He has a signature guitar as well, made by Reverend. I haven't heard it and I think it looks hideous but the same company does make some fantastic high-quality guitars. I've got a wonderful sounding Warhawk RT and Reeves Gabrels has a signature guitar with them too which has a sustain pickup which is pretty clever along with the toggle for switching octaves. Radiohead's Ed O'Brien has a similar signature guitar with a sustain pickup made by Fender but the Reeves Gabrels one is particularly nice, in my opinion. Edit: On the topic of signature guitars and such, anyone who's a fan of Warren Ellis (Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, Grinderman, Dirty Three) should check out his signature stuff with Eastwood guitars, particularly that tenor baritone There's a Dutch guy that recreated the pedal he uses with his violin and tenor guitars etc. which sounds ferocious as well. Definitely worth checking out for anyone who happens to like his output.
SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 8, 2021 |
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Jan 8, 2021 17:58
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Ah there we go, that's Billy's signature guitar there, the one with scratch plates everywhere. Also a better question might be why doesn't he put the songs with riffs like that on new albums instead. I linked songs like As Rome Burns and Superchrist earlier and he's obviously writing them but just doesn't want to put them on any records for some reason. Noise Machine posted:I'm pumped for the Machina remix but man the mix on "Wound" is just perfect Agreed. I hope they don't mess with any of that because the wall of sound and production suits the album so well in my opinion. One thing I'm curious about is "Blue Skies Bring Tears" because I like both versions so much. I hope they keep the original as-is and just work on the "version electrique" to be mixed properly since the vocals etc. are all great, it just needs some care and attention in the studio to mix it all properly. On that note, we've had the rock-y "The End is the Beginning is the End" and the electronic "The Beginning is the End is the Beginning" and it would be nice if they released a third version based on the live performance of the latter which has some amazing lead guitar work. I think there's basically zero chance of it but watching live performances and hearing what the new guitarist brings to the song with his solos makes it sound perfect and really atmospheric and haunting. Wouldn't sound out of place on the Machina reissue, imo.
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Jan 8, 2021 19:43
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I think I read an interview where she said when the Pumpkins got back together Billy didn't even contact her She didn't seem upset or bitter about it and expressed gratitude for her time in the band and made clear that she really enjoyed it but drat, she really was such an ideal bassist and had a powerful presence. Also gonna check out Billy's new signature guitar now since I'm curious Edit: Oh I get it now, I thought all those scratch plates were just visual but apparently he's had parts of the body hollowed out and those just cover the chambers. That's actually really unique and interesting. I'd love to see what Reverend could come up with if they made a signature model for Jamie Hince from The Kills, he has some great gear that's really hard to find and would probably make something impressive. SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 00:44
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The new guitarist (Jeff?) is starting to look like John Lennon with that hair. Someone give him some circle shades and
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Jan 12, 2021 02:48
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Machina/Machina II reissues are almost done, and altogether, it's going to be 80 loving songs. Thank god I still can't remember where I got the impression that Billy wanted to expand it from a double album to three discs, but given he says that even Machina II at the time was missing a lot of material makes me wonder if a good chunk of those songs might actually be a huge three-CD album as opposed to a double with about 50 or so alternate takes or differing versions? He was definitely on a creative roll at the time so I hope that this really is something special and that the songs aren't ruined or tampered with too much aside from improved quality. Also, I had no idea he was working on a "rock opera" follow-up to Mellon Collie. I do not doubt his musical ability to pull it off songwriting-wise if he really wants to because I'm confident he can write the stuff people like as he pleases and simply chooses new things instead, but I hope that if the band goes ahead with this (and he says they're all really excited) that they just have a producer that buries his vocals in the mix because he can't sing like he used to and the talking through songs is incredibly distracting. Still remember the "Oh wow they're back!" when listening to Zeitgeist for the first time, and then Billy opened his mouth 
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Jan 29, 2021 06:30
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That LJ entry about Adore is weird. I know to take Billy's version of things with a pinch (or maybe a cup) of salt but reading about James only showing up a couple times in six months is odd. Did he just not care about ever showing up because Billy would presumably end up recording all the guitars himself or was there some moment the two of them had a big fallout? I've always wondered what the deal is there but do know Billy became a control freak with Siamese Dream and basically just recorded everything with Jimmy, was that when James and D'Arcy tuned out? Also while I'm glad Jimmy got the boot when he did because it helped him get better, it's still messed up reading about them taking various drugs while recording a new album after he was kicked out and a tour member died from an overdose. SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 18:20
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Baron von Eevl posted:Cut out Once Upon A Time, or Crestfallen, or Daphne Descends, or maybe Apples + Oranjes. Daphne Descends is one of my favorite songs on that album and I can't imagine Adore without it. I'm actually surprised that Eye didn't make it onto the album since musically it fits really well and Because You Are would have been a good addition also rather than being left on the cutting room floor imo. Speaking of Let Me Give the World to You, considering it was a b-side released a couple months before recording for Adore started I can't shake the feeling that The Beginning is the End is the Beginning would have fit so well on Adore as well. Personally I would have cut and replaced some of the later tracks on the album as I think the second half is weaker, and the four tracks mentioned above would have elevated it a lot with their inclusion, even if two of them were movie-related. My personal choices for cuts would have been Dusty & Pistol Pete, Annie-Dog, Shame, Blank Page & 17. I'd have closed out the album with Because You Are, Behold! The Night Mare & The Beginning is the End is the Beginning. Speaking of, I think the Machina II version of Let Me Give the World to You would have fit well on Adore. That version could comfortably have taken the place of Perfect or accompanied it. Maybe have James using his EBow in the background for extra flow
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Jan 31, 2021 04:23
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I mixed up 17 with Once in a While. Whoops  Edit: Do you mean the early version of Blank Page from the reissue or is there another version out there? SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 31, 2021 |
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Jan 31, 2021 05:09
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Was listening to that and yeah, I prefer the reissue version, the mood fits better and Billy's vocals are great, especially when they're isolated for the plant some trees section. There's an oddball track as well called Indecision which is just an electronic beat but Billy's voice is beautiful. As much as I love the Machina II version of Satur9 I really like the Matt Walker 2014 version on the Adore reissue as well, he did a good job of capturing the style of Ava Adore and seems like it would have complimented it nicely. I really hope the Machina II reissue has that noise version intact but just produced/mastered properly  Going over all the material and direction of the band combined with the reaction (press praising it and fans being alienated) makes it feel very similar to Radiohead's Kid A. I was just going over some other info (I think this was on the Wikipedia page) that said Billy was contemplating it being a double album, which makes me think of Kid A being followed up with Amnesiac so quickly as well. Shame it didn't have the reception that Radiohead's records had but that probably wouldn't have been healthy for Billy's ego.
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Jan 31, 2021 06:38
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I really do love that alternate version of Blank Page so much, thanks for the recommendation. That and some of the other tracks of the Adore reissue that I never even bothered listening to are really great. Also, odd bit of trivia but apparently Billy submitted both Eye and Tear to David Lynch for the Lost Highway soundtrack, and Lynch opted for Eye and so Tear made it onto Adore instead. Between those and The End is the Beginning is the End (and the alternate version and b-sides for that single) they had a fascinating starting point for Adore. I think it was prompted by the success of 1979? Apparently Eye was the first song he wrote after Mellon Collie.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:18
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Looking at the releases (including all the extra stuff and compilations like Pisces Iscariot & The Aeroplane Flies High) it really seems like that period between Siamese Dream and ending with the release of Machina II was Billy just on a continuous roll of amazing output that I don't think ever really stopped? He just had this 7 year run of awesomeness. It might be shorter than that but I'm rounding down from recording on Siamese Dream beginning in December of '92 and Machina II releasing in February of 2000. I just checked as well and Adore released in March '98 and they started recording Machina in November of the same year Oh and the Eye thing I just saw in the Wikipedia page but didn't check the source for the claim, there might have been too much output at the time for anyone to look back on and recall the order of correctly.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:20
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I think this is why I was thinking the Machina reissue might be three CDs instead of two, is because various people have gathered all the tracks on YouTube and made their own versions of the album which all have three discs worth of songs. It's an interesting thing to explore for anyone curious, here's one I found that I thought was quite good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYi4lU-sNgs Edit: Also watching an old interview of Billy & Yelena on Howard Stern back in '98 and Stern's bringing up Corgan's youth etc. and how he got into music and I had no idea that Billy was not only self taught, but he also can't read music. Maybe he can now? I have no idea but this is back in '98 and when you consider the output of his material up until then that is incredible I'm not sure if he's being completely honest or not, or perhaps discounting that he knows chords and such? Or maybe he doesn't and just has a particularly good ear for what sounds right.
SUNKOS fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 19:13
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I know the difference between guitar tabs and sheet music but Billy isn't just a guitarist/bassist, the guy plays piano too which is why it all seems so impressive. Writing the songs and arrangements that he does and even going beyond that to production/mixing/mastering etc. and being so very involved with so much of the process, it just really impresses me. The closest comparison I can think of at this very moment is Trent Reznor but as far as I know he is very musically literate, so the idea of Billy being somewhat similar but self-taught and really not knowing much and having just felt it out all this time, especially with such constant output in the 90s, is really impressive. I think I'd probably throw Thom Yorke in there as well but I think that much like Reznor, he has the musical literacy and so much versatility (how he can take a complex electronic song such as Bloom and play such a beautiful piano rendition speaks volumes, I think, nevermind his deeper diving into more difficult methods such as syncopation). Also makes me wonder the "What if?" we ever actually saw any of these collaborate or work together on something. I think their methods would make that impossible by default (with the exception of Thom Yorke, who is used to collaborative efforts rather than doing almost everything himself) but I'd love to see the three of them in a studio work together and their different approaches. I think Trent & Billy in particular have a similar method of "Sit down. Play whatever and record it. Revisit it afterwards and see what's good" and I imagine Thom may be the same. Then you have guys like Nick Cave who have an office and treat songwriting as a 9-5 which obviously works for him but I do wonder how
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Feb 7, 2021 20:58
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I've always wondered what/how when it comes to the solo in Zero. I like the song and think the solo is what really makes it, especially how it transitions back into that build-up which climaxes with the high-pitched squeal before the chorus, but I could never figure out that solo at all. It mostly sounds like a guitar but there's something in there and I've no idea how they did it but it sounds awesome. I'm guessing Billy was doing some Siamese Dream-esque studio craziness and layering things until they sounded like that?
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Mar 13, 2021 02:32
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So that's not Billy at all? That's James being absolutely awesome on guitar? I'm starting to wonder now what other things James has done that I'm unaware of. I know the main thing people point to is Mayonnaise but I remember watching a live performance of Glass and the Ghost Children (I love the intro of that song) and while Jimmy is doing his thing on drums, the intro guitar work is played by James while Billy steps away from center-stage and just extends his arms in a "Look at James!" kind of way that makes me wonder if that was all him on the start of that track as well? Could Billy even play these things?! Speaking of Adore I assume all the EBow stuff was James as well? It was used really tastefully on that album, particularly Daphne Descends, imo. It provided some wonderful atmospherics to tracks that just wouldn't be the same without it.
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Mar 21, 2021 04:10
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James, Jimmy, Jeff... It's kinda like that thing with female bass players, Billy seems to only wanna deal with guys whose name begins with a J. Anyways yeah, that Glass and the Ghost Children live performance really surprised me, I thought that was going to be Billy showing off but he steps away and James starts the guitar part but something seems to go wrong and it's basically improv and noise while Jimmy just goes with it and extends the intro drumming before James hits those first notes and nails the whole thing, it sounds album perfect and it's really impressive. His eyes are glued to his effects board though and I'm not surprised, that intro has some interesting things going on. I saw a really good live performance of The Beginning is the End is the Beginning and I wish that I could find it again because Jeff plays an incredible atmospheric solo that fits the song so well despite being heavily electronic and I've found so many other live performances where he doesn't do it, but this one time he seemed to just be doing his own thing on guitar throughout the whole song and it was incredible, not in a showoff way but it complimented the song perfectly. I wonder about D'Arcy as well since she's long gone, but she sang on Gish and was actually classically trained as a musician. I wonder if she handled the strings and arrangements for Disarm back in the day?
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Mar 21, 2021 18:57
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I knew Billy essentially did most of SD but I didn't know he was taking the reigns from the very start, I wonder why D'Arcy didn't leave the band sooner in that case. Presumably enjoying the fame and an easy ride? Since you seem to know a lot about the Pumpkins in the studio, do you know any details about the Matt Walker versions of tracks on the Adore reissue? It says 2014 which seems like they were specifically made for the reissue which seems kinda odd, I don't think Billy had anyone else provide alternate versions of a bunch of tracks for any of the prior reissues? I was just wondering if maybe they were alternate versions that were floating around from the time of recording Adore and Billy decided to go in the direction that he did instead? There's these heavier alternate versions of tracks from Adore but also other tracks that didn't make the album (Cash Car Star & Saturnine spring to mind first) that would have gone well alongside tracks like Ava Adore and I wonder how the album would have been received at the time if these songs were included along with the alternate versions of other tracks? It definitely would have given the album a lot more bite and maybe satisfied fans more at the time? I don't think that it would have aged as well as the final version of Adore did however, that's for sure. What was released still sounds timeless to me whereas the Matt Walker versions of songs sound very 90s, but I do wonder about what that version of the album might have sounded like and how it would have been received, since it was very focused on electronica while still keeping the guitars woven in that might not have alienated so many people? Definitely would have been in keeping with trends at the time and maybe expanded their fanbase as well. Still really enjoy Adore though and as much as I like Radiohead, they got so much praise for Kid A when Billy did the same thing with Adore years beforehand but wasn't acknowledged for it. His arrogance probably did him no favors but he definitely deserved more credit than he received for that album.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:55
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Noise Machine posted:Still waiting for that Machina boxset... Was excited as hell for all the new posts in this thread thinking it was finally coming but nope. Don't know what's even going on there at this point but didn't Billy say it was finished and even said how many tracks there were? Feels like that was ages ago now. We've been waiting forever for this and it's the one reissue I've been anticipating the most. I hope the big delay isn't because they've been tampering with it and we end up with some awful mess where Billy's vocals are pushed too far forward or he's re-recorded them and just talked through songs because his voice peaked during that period and he sounded perfect and that wall of sound was ideal for the album. I've just been hoping for a proper release where all those b-sides are mixed and produced to the same standard and maybe they add a bit more instrumentation but otherwise it's just untouched and maybe has some unreleased gems added in as additions too. Maybe it's just sitting around forgotten because Billy decided he wanted to do another double album as a sequel to that and Mellon Collie which I'm cautiously excited about but also kinda dreading. Would be great to finally get a studio recording of As Rome Burns but I think it was mentioned he wanted to continue with the reissues so maybe that would be a bonus track on the Zeitgeist one since it's from that era. Also I can't find it now but I saw a live performance of The Beginning is the End is the Beginning which had Jeff playing some amazing lead throughout the song which fit really well and I wish we could get a studio recording of that too, it was such a great performance and I found others where he doesn't really do much but there's one where he's just wailing on guitar throughout and it sounds incredible. I think it might have been taken off YouTube now but drat it was good.
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May 18, 2022 23:46
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The main thing that sticks out to me whenever I listen to Mellon Collie (and was sadly never addressed on the reissue) is how quiet Muzzle is. I love the song, I just cannot fathom why the volume is noticeably lower than the other tracks?Baron von Eevl posted:the only instrumental change in the chorus is that lovely and surreal guitar line (I heard that it's James playing through Jeff's pedalboard). I know James' role in the band has been downplayed at times (I have memories of people somewhere saying he only really did Mayonaise which is obviously incredible yet it really downplays his role I think - iirc it was people trying to justify why he wasn't part of the reunion when Zeitgeist was being recorded) but I was watching a live performance of Glass and the Ghost Children (the intro to that song is one of my favorite Pumpkins moments) since James rejoined the band and the start of the song sounded like it was completely botched, and then Billy just stopped and stretched his arms out to gesture the crowd to focus on James and he played the entire intro perfectly while looking half asleep and ever since I've always wondered just how much he's added to various songs throughout the years and what's actually him. I can't even imagine a song like Daphne Descends without his eBow, for example. Also reminds me of them playing Bullet with Butterfly Wings on Howard Stern (again after James rejoined) and Stern asked them to break down the riff and he noticed James was playing something different that complimented Billy's playing really well and James couldn't even remember why he played it like that but I'm sure there's a lot that he's simply never been credited for.
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Jun 20, 2022 08:13
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Wondering if that weird yet incredible solo in Zero is actually James going wild? Maybe responsible for when Billy finishes the "You blame yourself for wanting more" line and right as he starts "She..." there's that crazy high pitch that comes down which I'm guessing was probably a Digitech Whammy? I really like how the riff changes and throws the listener during that crazy solo too before everything comes back together to build-up to the peak I just mentioned too. I know it's a big hit and probably one of the most well-known songs by them but I'll always love how they took this weird broken-sounding riff and made such a phenomenal song. I wonder if the rest of the band had an initial "Why do you keep playing that stupid riff?" reaction and James got his carrot juice and decided "Yeah I can be fuckin' weird too check this out" and a hit was born.
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Jun 20, 2022 20:50
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Surely he has to put out the Machina reissue before then, right? RIGHT?! The wait has been absurd considering how long it's supposedly been finished for. I vaguely recall someone mentioning that they may be waiting to press enough vinyls for the release but at this point why not just get the reissue out and let everyone know vinyls will be coming as soon as they're ready? 7 months until the new album. Come on Billy get the Machina reissue out before Christmas
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Sep 20, 2022 04:30
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:There's something lost in this track that was ever-present in MCIS' music, and (to a lesser degree) Machina's. I don't know what it is... humility? I can't put my finger on it, but MCIS was 'we're loud and have something to say and cry about but we'll just chill out in this corner and be somewhat modest'. It sounds soulless. It also sounds like the foundation of a good song, but as mentioned the production lets it down, the mixing is bad, Billy is talking through a song yet again rather than singing/screaming or anything with actual emotion, the drums are bizarrely simple and the guitar doesn't sound like Pumpkins at all. The one thing I like is James doing whatever the hell he is doing on guitar but everything about the production of the track just drags it down. If Billy put more effort into the riff and actual guitar sound and it was mixed so whatever James is doing is constantly weaving around everything and someone woke Jimmy up and smacked Billy until he stopped talking throughout the whole song it would be getting somewhere. In a way those guitar squeals remind me of the Zero solo and it's depressing to think how the Pumpkins of that era would have recorded this exact same song. It would have been monstrous, but we have this instead which is soulless and you can hear the boredom, not just in Billy's voice but in the drums, the guitar, the track reeks of boredom aside from James doing whatever he's doing, which quite frankly could be effortless half-asleep effort for him by this point as well.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:34
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