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Dr. Snark posted:It's basically because there's a bunch of big-name Zekes that survived the One Year War and still really wanna stick it to the Feddies. Case in point: The awkward thing about the Feddie war crimes for Zimmerman is that, going by everything but Unicorn... they didn't happen. Also, they couldn't happen. Like, at all. Federation troops never set foot on Side 3. Zeon surrendered in time to keep some autonomy, in part due to the fact Prime Minister Bakharov really didn't like Gihren. In fact, Side 3's policy during the Gryps conflict was pro-Titans, because the Republic hated the Zabis that much. Unicorn doesn't fit very well with the previous history of the U.C., is what I'm saying.
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Apr 20, 2018 22:14
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Unicorn isn't very good, is the thing.
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Apr 20, 2018 22:22
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Dr. Snark posted:It's basically because there's a bunch of big-name Zekes that survived the One Year War and still really wanna stick it to the Feddies. Case in point: To be fair, Char also fought to help the Feddies. And Paptimus Sirrocco who came from Jupiter, and somehow had mental sex magic to make (almost) all the ladies want him.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:02
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Calax posted:To be fair, Char also fought to help the Feddies. Yeah, but Sirrocco wasn't a Zeke. And I don't understand what you mean when you say that Char fought with the Federation. I mean, there was this one guy around during that thing with the Titans that looked, acted and sounded exactly like him but he clearly was not Char Aznable. Obviously.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:07
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chiasaur11 posted:The awkward thing about the Feddie war crimes for Zimmerman is that, going by everything but Unicorn... Unicorn is really that moment where the author is blatantly saying "Zeon are glorious space samurai post-world war 2." See, before this point, the Federation's evil had always been portrayed as this lazy evil that just sort of... exists and basically has no will to fight. Like, we get to Victory Gundam over 100 years in the future, and the Federation is using 50-year-old Mobile Suits, even as the Zanscare Empire (Because as it turns out, no it doesn't matter if they have full autonomy, people in space are cockbites and going to invade earth) is skull loving earth, and the EFF themselves are just like "Eh... war... sure..." It doesn't even care about propagating itself all that much, just like... existing. I'm saying the Federation is a NEET. Like it's notable that in ZZ Gundam, when Haman is all about going to War with the Federation, they themselves just... kinda want the fight to be over, and don't even see a problem with a colony drop on Dublin, to them "Well it'll clear out the overpopulation issue." Lazy fatcats who simply don't give a gently caress is the evil of the federation. And then Unicorn decided that actually they're the Illuminati and the Republic of Zeon isn't valid because the President decided to let the EFF soldiers on Side 3 (Non-existent) go all Rape of Nanking on a Colony. Which isn't appropriate on many levels. Unicorn sucks. EDIT: To explain why the "Glorious Space Samurai" mindset is in so many things, it's because a lot of Japanese military nerds tend to connect themselves to Gundam, and as it turns out it's a pretty common mindset that Japan was weak for surrendering during World War 2 after the Nukes and they should have fought to the last and SAMURAI SPIRIT and all that poo poo. The Unicorn writer is one of those writers who writes a tonne of "Japan gets back at those dirty Americans" Historical Fiction books. Onmi fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 00:18
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Everything about Unicorn's ending is also just bafflingly stupid. Glorious Space Samurai Zeon aside like everything about the stupid magic box was dumb as all hell.
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Apr 21, 2018 00:28
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chiasaur11 posted:The awkward thing about the Feddie war crimes for Zimmerman is that, going by everything but Unicorn... ...Uh...I think you're taking about the novel or something because in the TV series Zinnerman's family died in a counterterrorist operation gone wrong on Earth. Unless I am seriously mis-remembering things... Onmi posted:*snip* Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the novel or whatever (which from my understanding was in fact pretty bad). The series was not like that - there was a moment early on where that kind of rhetoric was brought up and Banagher's response was "Didn't Zeon drop colonies on people? I don't think that makes them the good guys." It was all about ending the cycle of hatred and things like that. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 01:09
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Dr. Snark posted:...Uh...I think you're taking about the novel or something because in the TV series Zinnerman's family died in a counterterrorist operation gone wrong on Earth. Unless I am seriously mis-remembering things... quote:During that time, his family lived in Globe city in Side 3, whose inhabitants were being ruthlessly slaughtered by Federation occupation forces. His wife and child were among those killed. Zinnerman was devastated upon learning the existence of circulated video footage related to their deaths. Are you sure you're not thinking of Loni Garvey? Who's backstory is utterly different between book and novel?
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Apr 21, 2018 01:25
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Onmi posted:
That's putting it a bit strong, isn't it? I think the show definitely does show the Federation in a better light than Neo-Zeon in the end: its extremist elements are taken care of, Martha Vyst is led away in handcuffs. On the other side, Neo-Zeon is more uniformly extremist, while the enlightened Zinnerman and his crew defect to work with the Nahel Agarma. While there are good and bad Feds, at the end of the show there are only bad Zeon and good ex-Zeon. Maybe the more sympathetic Sleeves had their reasons for continuing the fight, maybe the author was a little too insistent that they were good and admirable reasons, but by the end of the show those reasons no longer mattered, and the important thing to do was for everyone to escape their daddy issues and make a better future that probably doesn't have much Zeon. There's also the scene where Loni slaughters civilians because she is literally possessed by the evil spirit of Zeon, but I guess that was only in the show? I'm pretty sure the show made it sound like Zinnerman's family was on Earth. I do know that he said they lived in a village, which certainly doesn't suggest a space colony.
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Apr 21, 2018 06:36
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DKD posted:There's also the scene where Loni slaughters civilians because she is literally possessed by the evil spirit of Zeon, but I guess that was only in the show? http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Mahdi_Garvey And why would Zinnerman, a Spacenoid, have a family in a village on Earth?
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Apr 21, 2018 06:44
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DKD posted:I'm pretty sure the show made it sound like Zinnerman's family was on Earth. I do know that he said they lived in a village, which certainly doesn't suggest a space colony. I rewatched the episode in question, and the reason I thought the town in question was on Earth was because the animation for it didn't have the "space colony look" for lack of a better way of putting it. Honestly I didn't even know that it was actually on a Side until I was told otherwise. Onmi posted:And why would Zinnerman, a Spacenoid, have a family in a village on Earth? He served as a soldier and could have potentially been stranded on Earth. Yes I know that's not what happened but that concept is hardly new to the UC (look at Thunderbolt for instance). Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 06:47
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Onmi posted:http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Mahdi_Garvey I guess I had assumed that Zinnerman was like the Blue Team in ZZ, an Earthnoid who had joined up because Zeon's cause intersected with some more local cause.
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Apr 21, 2018 07:12
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DKD posted:That's putting it a bit strong, isn't it? I think the show definitely does show the Federation in a better light than Neo-Zeon in the end: its extremist elements are taken care of, Martha Vyst is led away in handcuffs. On the other side, Neo-Zeon is more uniformly extremist, while the enlightened Zinnerman and his crew defect to work with the Nahel Agarma. While there are good and bad Feds, at the end of the show there are only bad Zeon and good ex-Zeon. Maybe the more sympathetic Sleeves had their reasons for continuing the fight, maybe the author was a little too insistent that they were good and admirable reasons, but by the end of the show those reasons no longer mattered, and the important thing to do was for everyone to escape their daddy issues and make a better future that probably doesn't have much Zeon. Well, from what I've seen the anime tones things way, way down on the pro-Zeon end of things. It keeps some of the things that don't make what is conventionally called "sense", but generally keeps to "Zeon bad, Feddies notably less bad". The book has things like the Federation attempting to exterminate all religion so that no-one will believe in anything but them. (Which makes very little sense with Al's prayers in 0080, but, you know. Sense. Unicorn.)
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Apr 21, 2018 07:44
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chiasaur11 posted:The awkward thing about the Feddie war crimes for Zimmerman is that, going by everything but Unicorn... I can think of one (and only one) way they could fit in, and even it has some logical inconsistencies. Gihren false flagging Cima's colony for propaganda purposes before turning it into the Colony Laser.
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Apr 21, 2018 07:45
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chiasaur11 posted:Well, from what I've seen the anime tones things way, way down on the pro-Zeon end of things. It keeps some of the things that don't make what is conventionally called "sense", but generally keeps to "Zeon bad, Feddies notably less bad".  Okay yeah now I'm beginning to understand the discussion earlier. It felt like I was hearing about what Gundam Unicorn was like in some bizarro universe or something. But yes, I can confirm that the anime is not pro-Zeon in the slightest like DKD already talked about. I won't pretend it's flawless by any stretch, but it's waaaaay better than the novel from the sounds of it. If nothing else it's much more optimistic. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Apr 21, 2018 |
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Apr 21, 2018 08:06
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Gundam novels are always pretty wacky affairs and tend to double down on the extreme sides of things.
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Apr 21, 2018 08:37
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RBA Starblade posted:You'd think they would run out of colonies to make new empires out of at some point. No really, they just announced a sequel to Unicorn called Gundam NT (short for Narrative) and that the Hathaway's Flash novels are getting a 3-film adaptation as well. Even though Hathaway's Flash runs off the Hi-Streamer/Beltorchika's Children novels and not the Char's Counterattack film, meaning we'd get some serious continuity hiccups if Sunrise tries to connect Hathaway's Flash to CCA.
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Apr 21, 2018 23:23
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AradoBalanga posted:No really, they just announced a sequel to Unicorn called Gundam NT (short for Narrative) and that the Hathaway's Flash novels are getting a 3-film adaptation as well. Even though Hathaway's Flash runs off the Hi-Streamer/Beltorchika's Children novels and not the Char's Counterattack film, meaning we'd get some serious continuity hiccups if Sunrise tries to connect Hathaway's Flash to CCA. Oh, we're actually getting an adaptation of Hathaway's Flash? Will wonders never cease (although it kind of showing up in SRW V was probably a sign of things to come). I'm legit curious as to how that will play out because it's not only going to have to tie in to CCA the movie but it's also going to have to take place after the Unicorn anime which was all about the whole "let go of old hatreds and move forwards" thing. So I'm cautiously optimistic...I think.
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Apr 22, 2018 00:33
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Unicorn is a  Gundam robot
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Apr 22, 2018 05:31
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Dr. Snark posted:I'm legit curious as to how that will play out because it's not only going to have to tie in to CCA the movie but it's also going to have to take place after the Unicorn anime which was all about the whole "let go of old hatreds and move forwards" thing. So I'm cautiously optimistic...I think. I mean, Hathaway's Flash is also something of a cautionary tale in regards to that subject. Though, oh boy, the last hurrah of Bright Noa that no one actually wants to think about is becoming canonical.
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Apr 22, 2018 07:21
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AradoBalanga posted:Admittedly, the Oldsmobile Army are the last known Zeon remnants in the Gundam timeline Hi there, I'm Crossbone Gundam. Let me tell you about chimpanzees.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:53
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Let's Play Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 0079 Rise from the Ashes Mobile Suit of the Week: OZ-06MS Leo  The Leo is one of the highest-performance grunt suits to ever appear in the One Year War. Strong, fast, and powerful the Leo is beloved by its Mobile Suit Warriors and military fetishists of all sorts. Carrying a shield, a beam saber, and a 105mm cannon stock, the Leo can be upgraded with both beam weaponry and even powerful shoulder-mounted Dober Guns capable of damaging even Gundanium Alloy. The Leo was only assigned to the most prestigious of Zeon units, and fans (American Fans in particular) were disappointed to learn it does not appear in this game at all. All is not lost, however, as this rarely seen mobile suit will be getting a model kit release later this month! All isn't bullets and roses for the Leo, however. Its designers missed a serious design flaw, causing it to explode immediately in the presence of Gundanium Alloy. We have assembled a few rare pictures of the Leo in its natural habitat:      
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May 2, 2018 17:02
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You might want to rebalance the audio Poptarts, it's hard to hear the commentary over the game audio.
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May 2, 2018 17:13
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I'll take another look at it. I was trying to make sure people could hear our CO pronounce Green Echidna as "Green Eck-Ack-Oh-Donna" at the start of the briefing.
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May 2, 2018 18:19
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You'd better use the Guncannon as much as you can. Kai Shiden would be ashamed of you if you didn't.
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May 4, 2018 04:50
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The Guncannon MPT is pretty well a necessity on a first-time play. Those shoulder cannons have a little bit of a fire delay and can't be reloaded, but they hit as hard as the Beam Rifle.
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May 4, 2018 05:04
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Guncannon MPT is pretty well a necessity on a first-time play. Those shoulder cannons have a little bit of a fire delay and can't be reloaded, but they hit as hard as the Beam Rifle. It's also much more durable than the base GM, and doesn't have to worry about switching from long range to close quarters combat, which can be dangerous when engaging multiple opponents. When you don't have the enhanced armor from latter runs, it's a pretty big step up. Also, I'd like to remind everyone that Gato didn't make Zeon's top ace list, and if he hadn't been dumb enough to chase after a Ball thinking it was the Gundam, Amuro would have given him the bug on a windshield treatment. Gato sucks, is what I'm getting at.
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May 4, 2018 05:20
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chiasaur11 posted:Also, I'd like to remind everyone that Gato didn't make Zeon's top ace list, and if he hadn't been dumb enough to chase after a Ball thinking it was the Gundam, Amuro would have given him the bug on a windshield treatment. Didn't that actually happen in one of the games as a what-if thing? I forget the name but I distinctly remember that being a thing.
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May 4, 2018 05:53
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Dr. Snark posted:Didn't that actually happen in one of the games as a what-if thing? I forget the name but I distinctly remember that being a thing. Probably thinking Ghiren's Greed, because that's the go-to for what-if-scenarios for Gundam.
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May 4, 2018 07:28
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Materant posted:Probably thinking Ghiren's Greed, because that's the go-to for what-if-scenarios for Gundam. No, it was definitely a more action-y one that covered OG Gundam.
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May 4, 2018 09:02
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chiasaur11 posted:It's also much more durable than the base GM, and doesn't have to worry about switching from long range to close quarters combat, which can be dangerous when engaging multiple opponents. This sounds dumb but then I remember that Giant Cannons are a special class of CQC weapon on their own.
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May 4, 2018 09:09
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Gato is one of the worst characters to ever exist in Gundam ever, which is okay cause he's meant to be a gigantic moronic delusional hypocrite who only lives as long as he does because he once dated the least rational woman on the loving planet. He's also what I imagine a person looks like when they try to tell me Zeon aren't too bad for whatever reason, usually telling me this while piloting a mobile armour and committing some self-righteous atrocity in the process.
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May 4, 2018 13:48
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Gato is one of the worst characters to ever exist in Gundam ever, which is okay cause he's meant to be a gigantic moronic delusional hypocrite who only lives as long as he does because he once dated the least rational woman on the loving planet. He's also what I imagine a person looks like when they try to tell me Zeon aren't too bad for whatever reason, usually telling me this while piloting a mobile armour and committing some self-righteous atrocity in the process. Gato is the dumbest motherfucker in the world, and I can only imagine what the show would look like without a change of directors. I still can't believe this dumb fucker is recruitable in SRWs.... Also it's worth pointing out that the Newtype girl you guys are talking about in Blue Destiny isn't actually dead or like... physically chopped up into bits. Marion was simply left Comatose during the first testing of the system which trapped her soul, hence why when the machines are all destroyed she wakes up (Or dies, it's never said) She's recruitable in a few G Generation games. EDIT: It's worth pointing out the Antarctic Treaty was annulled at the end of the OYW, replaced with the Granada Accord, which didn't forbid nuclear weaponry, so The Delaz Fleet DOUBLE had no point in claiming it was a violation. It's literally "You're violating our Treaty!" "That treaty was annuled at the end of the war." "THE WAR NEVER ENDED" Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:03 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 13:57
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I'm not really surprised I got the Blue Destiny thing wrong, though that means I've confused it with something else involving someone getting sort of ripped into pieces for computer parts. Maybe I was thinking about what happened to the friendly fella on the moon in Gundam X. Also Gato is recruitable in SRW games specifically so you can send him flying ahead of everyone to die. Just put him in something cheap and flammable.
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May 4, 2018 14:20
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TheLastRoboKy posted:I'm not really surprised I got the Blue Destiny thing wrong, though that means I've confused it with something else involving someone getting sort of ripped into pieces for computer parts. Maybe I was thinking about what happened to the friendly fella on the moon in Gundam X. Yeah D.O.M.E. and Lorelai from Gundam X are both "Newtypes chunked up into machines."
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May 4, 2018 14:37
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Also while we're on the subject everyone needs to stop letting people try to induce Newtype powers in people it's a terrible idea stop making people crazy.
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May 4, 2018 15:24
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Dr. Snark posted:No, it was definitely a more action-y one that covered OG Gundam. Encounters in Space? When you beat Amuro's section of the game once or twice, on repeats you'll start running into 0083 characters, including South Burning and I want to say Gato.
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May 4, 2018 18:23
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But RoboKy, if we don't enslave and weaponize the Psykers against our enemies, our enemies will surely enslave and weaponize them against us instead.
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May 4, 2018 18:24
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Dr. Snark posted:Didn't that actually happen in one of the games as a what-if thing? I forget the name but I distinctly remember that being a thing. You're thinking of Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space I believe. In the White Base mode of that game you can encounter Johnny Ridden, Shin Matsunada, and Gato as surprise boss fights in three of the stages.I don't remember exactly how to trigger the fights though. RIP someone beat me to it.
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May 4, 2018 18:28
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GawainStark posted:You're thinking of Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space I believe. In the White Base mode of that game you can encounter Johnny Ridden, Shin Matsunada, and Gato as surprise boss fights in three of the stages.I don't remember exactly how to trigger the fights though. RIP someone beat me to it. They're also bosses in the first Dynasty Warriors Gundam during the OYW proceedings.
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May 4, 2018 18:33
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