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https://twitter.com/splcenter/status/992886675452977152 lmfao
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May 11, 2018 15:23
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What is it about white people losing their mind over cultural appropriation?
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May 11, 2018 15:37
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liberal guilt brought on by their alienation leading them to attach their identity to an ideology which allows them to develop a feeling of moral righteousness without having to actually think about or do anything
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May 11, 2018 15:42
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Afrocentrists who are far too into Ancient Egypt.
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May 11, 2018 15:47
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i don't like the whole "black people and rock and roll music" line of argument what are you gonna do, tell people "sorry kid, you can't play rock and roll because thats black peoples' music." or even less realistically "you can play the rock and rolls, but first you must take this course detailing the history of rock and roll so that you know you're just stealing black people music and you must dedicate every show to your unaccredited forefathers" give me a break the US was considerably more racist 60 years ago, but now black artists dominate culture, get paid for it, and are widely celebrated which is great. once again, no one owns culture. and not all success, especially cultural, can be measured in dollars. plenty of influential artists across the racial spectrum have failed to gain recognition for their contributions, had their style taken/copied without accreditation, and failed to make money "equal" to their contribution. that's just the way culture and music works rock and roll itself grew from european influence but no body gives a poo poo because culture is meant to spread and be shared
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May 11, 2018 16:02
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magnavox space odyssey posted:Or is cultural appropriation specifically about marginalized people being prevented from profiting off their own culture? I have a friend who grew up Amish in Wisconsin. He left the community when he was 18, but still remains in good contact with his folks. He says the Amish take advantage of the commodification of their culture by labeling anything they touch as "Amish crafted" and selling it at a steep markup to tourists. As far as actual appropriation, the Navajo Indian Nation sued Urban Outfitters for selling clothes featuring designs labeled as "Navajo print." This was more in the vein of a copyright lawsuit however. https://indiancountrymedianetwork.c...erm-dine-argue/
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May 11, 2018 16:03
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Heres a good article that touches on the subject op https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/opinion/intellectual-dark-web-red-pilled.html
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May 11, 2018 16:06
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Motto posted:Heres a good article that touches on the subject op ? that article blows
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May 11, 2018 16:09
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RaySmuckles posted:i don't like the whole "black people and rock and roll music" line of argument Rock & Roll came about as a fusion between African American Music and European American country music. I'll give you three guesses as to who got all the money.
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May 11, 2018 16:54
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Whorelord posted:Afrocentrists who are far too into Ancient Egypt. hey now, hoteps are awesome 
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May 11, 2018 16:56
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Let us English posted:Rock & Roll came about as a fusion between African American Music and European American country music. a bunch of mop-headed british guys?
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May 11, 2018 16:59
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magnavox space odyssey posted:I am still here and was planning on asking that guy how this differs from capitalism commodifying all culture (other than it not being fair to the original black artists). Cultural appropriation is just the taking of someone else's cultural artifacts.  It is morally neutral. Cultural appropriation gets obnoxious/oppressive when it is combined with unequal power dynamics/previous or existing racism.  .Cultural appropriation can also be offensive when it involves taking someone else's sacred objects/symbols and using them in a frivolous fashion e.g.  There are a number of people who believe that it is only cultural appropriation if it is oppressive, but these people are wrong, and should be ignored. Patrick Spens has issued a correction as of 17:25 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 17:04
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I think appropriation varies a lot depending on the culture you want to appropriate and the history behind it. Wearing blackface and presenting as a black person when you could have had an actual black person do the work is horrific, especially if you profit from it. On the other hand, a white girl today wearing a kimono for fun probably isn't so bad (but would have been worse had it happened in the 50s post WW2), since today the Japanese aren't necessarily a persecuted group, unlike, say, Native Americans. Context matters. Basically, ask yourself "would I offend a lot of people doing this" before doing something that could be a breach of culture. And if you do something culturally insensitive and are called out on it, apologize and learn your lesson. It's not that hard.
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May 11, 2018 17:20
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white people meddling in other cultures is not necessarily a bad thing. cultural appropriation is poo poo that happens, it's not always some horrible thing that you need to flip your poo poo about. part of the problem is that white people freak the hell out if they're even slightly accused of anything with racially problematic connotations of any kind, so it's impossible to discuss the issue with any kind of nuance for example, a white guy making sushi? what the gently caress ever, no one actually gives a poo poo a white guy opening a sushi restaurant? okay, fine, sure, but it better be good sushi, and you'd better be open about the fact that you're not Japanese a magazine prints a list of "Top 10 Sushi Chefs" that is composed entirely of white guys? hold the loving phone part of what throws people off is that the line is necessarily pretty fuzzy, and there's not necessarily any single person that can be blamed for the transgression. rather than an individual offense, it's more of a cultural tipping point, better suited for academic discussion than for arguing over particular instances and incidents. sure, cultural osmosis and transfer happens and that's fine. on the other hand, elimination of a culture's distinctive identity has definitely been used as a bludgeon to try to eliminate a minority identity altogether and force them to assimilate entirely into the majority culture
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May 11, 2018 17:38
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appropriate this!!!!! *fart*
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May 11, 2018 17:47
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Let us English posted:Rock & Roll came about as a fusion between African American Music and European American country music. rich people in LA?
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May 11, 2018 17:54
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do you think the Hillbilly Music people got the money because lol
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May 11, 2018 17:57
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May 11, 2018 17:59
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even in this thread there are people attempting to create arguments which respect the idea of cultural appropriation, and nobody can actually construct a framework, because it is ultimately a facile bullshit idea culture isnt special, no not even yours, and it is ever fluid and changing and evolving identity politics is reactionary cancer
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May 11, 2018 18:09
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I'm cancer
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May 11, 2018 18:10
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culture is pretty special and cool imo
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May 11, 2018 18:10
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Wheeee posted:even in this thread there are people attempting to create arguments which respect the idea of cultural appropriation, and nobody can actually construct a framework, because it is ultimately a facile bullshit idea my identity excepted of course
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May 11, 2018 18:11
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Patrick Spens posted:
Mehhhh. You don't get to tell other people what meaning to attribute to symbols. Recontextualization is an important part of cultural progress. It doesn't debase your traditions, it's a new thing now.
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May 11, 2018 18:39
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its one of the things thats mildly amusing about everyone freaking out about how identity politics are poison the cultural hegemon never thinks it has a culture. things like society-wide alcoholism, rioting over football matches, a sense of humor with no settings between tits/farting and dry linguistic wordplay, uncritical veneration of the Royal Family, and a pathological love/hate relationship with France aren't part of an -identity-. they're just things normal people do everyone else has an identity. luckily, unlike them i'm normal. why can't politics focus on normal people. like me. and the people like me. see: south park, collected works of
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May 11, 2018 18:42
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:Mehhhh. You don't get to tell other people what meaning to attribute to symbols. Recontextualization is an important part of cultural progress. It doesn't debase your traditions, it's a new thing now. To be clear, I'm not, and have never been Catholic. And the necessity of re-contextualization doesn't change its offensiveness. It becoming a new thing necessarily debases the original meaning.
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May 11, 2018 18:55
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Patrick Spens posted:To be clear, I'm not, and have never been Catholic. And the necessity of re-contextualization doesn't change its offensiveness. It becoming a new thing necessarily debases the original meaning. I was using a general you, apologies for being unclear. I did not mean to attack you personally. I don't know why we should particularly care about all cases of offensiveness. People get offended over dumb poo poo. We rightfully laugh when some Chud gets super offended cause a statue to some Confederate rear end in a top hat gets taken down because the underlying reason for that offensiveness is stupid. Someone appropriating symbols should have zero effect on the meaning of those symbols to other people. Of course it's complicated because people are terrible and the hellscape of commodified economic and political power we inhabit sees an inequitable distribution of profit falling along racial, class, and traditional herirarchical lines. But, that's a lot of what has already been said. The appropriation isn't the bad thing here.
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May 11, 2018 19:07
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this is a pretty crazy mcdonalds ma, I'm scared
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May 11, 2018 19:09
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I only wear kimonos
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May 11, 2018 19:21
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Wheeee posted:even in this thread there are people attempting to create arguments which respect the idea of cultural appropriation, and nobody can actually construct a framework, because it is ultimately a facile bullshit idea there's still differences in how the cultures are handled for example, the heavily Americanized cuisine that is American Chinese food is considered to be "Chinese food" in American culture, even though it's very different from actual Chinese food. similarly, tex-mex food is still mostly considered to be "Mexican food" meanwhile, traditional Native American foods like grits and cornbread are considered to be "Southern food". even though they're virtually unchanged from Native American cuisine, they've totally lost that association in the minds of most Americans similarly, Cajun food is still recognized as a distinct cuisine, while African-American food has mostly been absorbed into "Southern food" why is it that california rolls are considered to be "japanese food", while barbecue (which likely originated from Native Americans and was taken up into African-American culture) is considered a "Southern" or "regional" dish, often with no mention of its non-white roots? cultural appropriation, yo
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May 11, 2018 19:23
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Kimono and a feather headdress Union jack shoes
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May 11, 2018 19:25
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*leftistly* idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol idpol
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May 11, 2018 19:25
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I'm worried watching subbed anime is cultural appropriation
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May 11, 2018 19:26
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Rushi posted:I'm worried watching subbed anime is cultural appropriation historys greatest monster right here
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May 11, 2018 19:27
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:I was using a general you, apologies for being unclear. I did not mean to attack you personally. I don't know why we should particularly care about all cases of offensiveness. People get offended over dumb poo poo. We rightfully laugh when some Chud gets super offended cause a statue to some Confederate rear end in a top hat gets taken down because the underlying reason for that offensiveness is stupid. Someone appropriating symbols should have zero effect on the meaning of those symbols to other people. Of course it's complicated because people are terrible and the hellscape of commodified economic and political power we inhabit sees an inequitable distribution of profit falling along racial, class, and traditional herirarchical lines. But, that's a lot of what has already been said. The appropriation isn't the bad thing here. We don't need to care about all cases of offensiveness. I don't care about Rihanna's bedazzled popehat. I picked it because because I hoped it was something that people here wouldn't react strongly to, but would be able to understand how someone else might. It looks like I missed the mark. But fundamentally, the appropriation of symbols matters to the appropriated because that's how symbols work. If something is to be special/sacred/important it must be treated that way. We don't get to ignore the connotations of our (or more irritatingly other people's) speech.
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May 11, 2018 19:35
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we should just go full stalin and massively redistribute ethnicities and nationalities aroudn and make them gently caress until were all one race, one nation, one fuhrer
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May 11, 2018 19:37
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Ze Pollack posted:its one of the things thats mildly amusing about everyone freaking out about how identity politics are poison not as mildly amusing as condescending yet dumb posts made in bad faith
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May 11, 2018 19:39
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:we should just go full stalin and massively redistribute ethnicities and nationalities aroudn and make them gently caress until were all one race, one nation, one fuhrer im doing my part
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May 11, 2018 19:54
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Wheeee posted:not as mildly amusing as condescending yet dumb posts made in bad faith your posts arent as funny as you think they are tho
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May 11, 2018 19:54
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Ze Pollack posted:its one of the things thats mildly amusing about everyone freaking out about how identity politics are poison This is disingenuous bullshit, sundown neighborhoods and "know your place, boy" have been good old-fashioned whitey idpol for most of the US's existence
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May 11, 2018 20:10
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Mandoric posted:This is disingenuous bullshit, sundown neighborhoods and "know your place, boy" have been good old-fashioned whitey idpol for most of the US's existence you know how neoliberalism avoids being criticized as an ideology by pretending to just be the immutable State of the world? the people advocating the Southern lifestyle did so on the grounds not that it was a part of their culture, but on the grounds it was the only sensible way to operate a society- that those yankee carelords and their insufferable meddling was the unhealthy, obsessive aberration to the Completely Normal southern understanding of how and why you did things. from here in the present it is easy to see that yes: it was always identity politics. but from their perspective, people so totally immersed in their identity that it is impossible to understand why someone would disagree with you on what is important, and why? it becomes very clear that all the people who care about poo poo I don't are just doing an idpol. to me. who is not doing an idpol. because I'm normal.
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May 11, 2018 20:37
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