[Europe] we hebben een serieus probleem

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Europe] we hebben een serieus probleem

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Willie Tomg posted:

for all the talk of how racist and barbarous the usa is, its really really really really funny to live on a block in texas alongside most latin american ethnicities that exist, north africans, caribs, indians, pakistanis, sudanese, ghanans, bangladeshis, burmese, and regular-rear end black americans

and then continental europe is having an existential freakout over maybe having a dark-skinned neighbor one day.

No the USA is racist and barbarous. And so is Europe. We're past "talk of".

# ¿ Jul 7, 2018 19:39

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 19:08

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Often Abbreviated posted:

You're not convincing anyone of anything because you don't have a position to convince anyone to, beyond a sort of bland "everything is fine, we are living in the best of all possible worlds" liberalism. Unfortunately everything is evidently not fine, countries are going bankrupt, basic infrastructure is collapsing, populations are turning towards radicalism etc. Everything is only fine if you have money, and a significant and increasing fraction of the European population doesn't.

The next question is more interesting. The basic thing that needs to happen is for countries to stop obeying the ECB and IMF, leave the euro and go back to their own currencies. If that means leaving the EU then fine - countries like Greece and Italy will still do better isolated but under their own terms than in the EU but on the euro. Once that happens - once the eurozone starts to shrink, and the ECB is faced with mass national defaults, then the conversation might start to change. Promises of a system that doesn't systematically disenfrachise periphery states might be floated. Or they'll just offer more loans on slightly better terms and use mass-media propaganda to keep bilking people (Plucky Portugal comes to mind). But the EU economic and political system needs to be recognized, at base, as corrupt and illegitimate, and countries need to start walking away.

Can't the system be reformed from within? In my opinion, no. The EU political structure is very elegantly designed to be insulated from public will. Take a look at this (from Wiki):

There's lot's that can be said about this but the part I want to highlight is how the enfranchised people - the voting citizenry - are always kept multiple layers of institutions away from the ability to propose or change anything. Compare it to a standard parliamentary system that goes "Public elects an MP. MP joins a government". Meanwhile there are lots of places a small but wealthy minority can step in and apply pressure - even on a progressive government such as in Greece or Spain - to get the kind of people and proposals they want. You'll never get an MMT guy or a socialist on the board of the ECB and you'll never get a majority of progressives on the European Council - they system can use monetary pressure to coerce smaller governments to place capital friendly people. If Comrade Corbyn took power in Britain tomorrow and selected the vengeful spirit of Tony Benn as our representative on the EC they'd just tighten the screws a little more to get pliant people from the REBLLs etc.

Any kind of reform would have to be backed by overwhelming, europe-wide public pressure. So what's the prognosis there?

Well as Coohoolin and Grape have gleefully pointed out, not great! A lot of people know they are angry, frustrated, desperate, but a lot don't know where to accurately place the blame. Grape's suggested culprits were the EU, Germany, Brexit and My Posting. Authoritarian fascist parties are gaining strength and political power faster than us lefties, who are kind of languishing in a confused stupor. What could be causing that? How come the fascists always have more money, better media attention, better organisation?

Rather that Brexit, or a sort of mass, Europe-wide rebellion against my posts (say what you like about the quality, I just don't think I've got that much of an audience amongst the down-and-out of Athens and Rome), I would propose the reason fascists are taking power is the exact same reason fascists have always taken power; the objectives of authoritarian fascism are much friendlier to capital than the objectives of leftism. Faced with the choice between concentration camps for immigrants and a slight reduction in their wealth, capital will tattoo 1488 across their foreheads and goose-step out into the street every time. The fascists in Europe have better media and political presence, better organisation, better logistics etc because they have more money. But funnily enough, the fascists hate the EU too

So, what needs to happen? Countries need to walk away from the euro system in particular and probably the EU structure in general. What's going to happen?

That's a lot of words to say "The EU isn't democratic, capital will always side with fascism, therefore the EU should be destroyed". Which is to say 69 + 420 = 1488. How the gently caress do you get to "shut down the EU" from "fascism is friendly to capitalism"? If we actually follow your reasoning, ignoring that last bizarre step, what we're going to get is multiple fascist sovereign states instead of one big one? That might be better overall for the rest of the world but for someone living inside Europe I don't look forward to the forever wars and general atmosphere.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2018 18:46

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Lawman 0 posted:

Can't wait for a bunch of euros to wander back itt, to smugsplain why they are totally not all racists.

The word 'all' is a bit controversial here. I don't think smugness is going to be the issue.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2020 21:09

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

ekuNNN posted:

I dont know in what country you are, but here in the Netherlands it is the fascists who support Putin
edit: and the left arent seen as supporting putin, important addition I guess

the dutch are all fascists so how the gently caress can you even tell?

# ¿ Sep 3, 2022 18:28

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Yeah. While Putin is doing badly with physical warfare in Ukraine, his political hatchetmen are doing gangbusters in the EU.

Dumb gently caress

# ¿ Sep 14, 2022 17:37

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Lmfao

italy's first big dork nerd idiot prime minister

# ¿ Sep 27, 2022 13:02

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

mila kunis posted:

id actually warm on the american empire if they followed through and did to western europe what you did to the rest of the world

hell yeah lets just fight each other now lol

# ¿ Oct 2, 2022 15:37

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

SplitSoul posted:

Yes yes, but have you considered that the Nordic Model is dead?

Government is also abolishing the job centers apparently. I can't imagine how they'll come up with something even worse, but I'm confident they will, since they intend to cut spending by 3 billion kroner, or 1/4 of the budget allocated to employment. Also promising "more dignified" programs for long-term unemployed, which is amazing considering Mette Frederiksen is directly responsible for most of the misery in the first place, like people doing work ability assessment from a loving hospital bed and other atrocities.

They're just going to copy the UK model

We still have job centres but they exist not to get people jobs, but to torment and belittle them

# ¿ Dec 15, 2022 07:50

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Better hope no Chinese rich person gets arrested or mildly inconvenienced in the US during your visit, American CIA operative.

This ain't gbs you strange Finnish imp

# ¿ Nov 29, 2023 03:04

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

mawarannahr posted:

GEERT
https://twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/1738921525820932097

lol at hairsplitting, we're ok with you Turkish now, but the Arabs... oh heavens no. Using a weird attempt to sound progressive in order to springboard into overt racism.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2023 14:27

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

It's only going to get worse. Pretty sure the plan is to just slam the door shut once climate stuff gets worse and then they just start machine gunning boats.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2024 08:25

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

well that's concerning

# ¿ Feb 7, 2024 20:15

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

webcams for christ posted:

wait it's not a bit?

No, he actually is Finnish

# ¿ Apr 15, 2024 09:03

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

they can't hate colonialism that much, they just signed up to be an American colony

# ¿ Apr 15, 2024 13:00

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Some English guy bought me the avatar because I posted in an anti-imperialist thread. (I loathe all English people.)

you are contemptible

# ¿ Apr 21, 2024 08:13

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Ardennes posted:

They will in everywhere else...

aha i knew leaving the EU was the right idea. I'm sure we'll be free to buy all the cheap panels just as soon as we finish spending billions ripping the Huawei equipment out

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 10:47

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Ardennes posted:

Sorry, I meant sovereign nations, not US federal territories and outlying islands.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 10:56

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 19:08

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

bedpan posted:

industrial fertilizer manufacturing dates back to the later 19th century/early 20th century. Germany was very notable for having created a chemical industry out of nothing to make fertilizer, dyes, and explosives. BASF, for example, originally stood for "Baden Aniline and Soda Factory"

Europe shouldn't be having a problem with this

turns out the great filter is inventing neoliberalism

i'm sure i'm the first person to think of this

# ¿ May 3, 2024 16:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Europe] we hebben een serieus probleem