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Are there any opinions on a Start Collecting set that's especially fun to paint / is regarded as looking particularly nice? I'm more interested in looking at the stuff than playing it so I don't need a viable army or anything, but I've never tried actual Games Workshop models and I kind of wanna give them a go. I've been mulling over the skinks but I heard the models are a little dated.
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Jun 9, 2021 23:48
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Just quietly I love the aesthetic of the slaves to darkness box, the chaos warriors/knights really do it for me but painting all their little fiddly trim and detail scares me off. Any time I go into a store and see it I have to remind myself I have plenty of stuff I'm not painting right now, I don't need more to not paint. From what I understand they're mostly single pose sculpts a few years old.
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Jun 10, 2021 00:02
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Slaves to Darkness and the recent Soulblight Gravelords starters are beautiful and 100% brand-new models. Gloomspite Gitz I believe is also all new and probably GW's best individual model range.
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Jun 10, 2021 00:08
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If you're looking to try out different factions to see if you like painting them before taking the plunge, the Underworlds warbands might be a good starter, there's pretty much something for anyone at this point I think. I have now learned that there's no way in hell I'd consider painting an army of Hedonites, for instance.
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Jun 10, 2021 00:47
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Its just the Wight King that's new in the Soulblight(!?) box, the black knights and grave guard are old. That said its about the aesthetic you're most into. Seconding the Gloomspite box because the squig herds are fun and the trolls are probably one of the best engineered kits in the range.
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Jun 10, 2021 01:02
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Seconding the Underworlds warbands, they are very good and all the models are relatively new.
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Jun 10, 2021 01:56
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I’ll second the Underworlds option. I’ve bought a few packs just for the fun of painting. Never played a single game. Edit: gently caress, beaten to the second. I third it then!
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Jun 10, 2021 02:06
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what the h*ck is the new coherency rule
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Jun 10, 2021 13:03
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Gloomspite Gitz start collecting is full of fun models to paint, squigs and trolls are both fun, characterful, and customizable. It's a pretty bad start collecting in terms of actually starting an army at the moment though.
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Jun 10, 2021 13:17
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Business Gorillas posted:what the h*ck is the new coherency rule Keep your lads together or they explode.
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Jun 10, 2021 13:23
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I think the coherency rule is conceptually fine, it works in 40k (2" / 1" difference sucks, though), but this is really gonna mess with combat. Between different base sizes, 1" melee range, and now double coherency, it all just gets kinda ugly if you want to be efficient with hordes. I don't think it'll break the game or anything, but there's definitely gonna be an adjustment period, and revaluing things like Cavalry in squads of +6.
Desfore fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jun 10, 2021 |
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Jun 10, 2021 13:38
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Koramei posted:Are there any opinions on a Start Collecting set that's especially fun to paint / is regarded as looking particularly nice? I'm more interested in looking at the stuff than playing it so I don't need a viable army or anything, but I've never tried actual Games Workshop models and I kind of wanna give them a go. if you like skinks then get the Starblood Stalkers Underworlds warband, fantastic new lizard models. nthing the "get Underworlds packs for starters" since they are incredible looking. Can't go wrong with the Starblood lizards, Magore's Fiends, Crimson Court, Khagra's Ravagers.
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Jun 10, 2021 14:46
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Business Gorillas posted:what the h*ck is the new coherency rule It's the 40k 9e coherency. If your unit is 5 models or less then it has to be within 1" horizontally and 6" vertically of at least one other member of the unit, but if it's more than 5 then it has to be within that range of at least two. It was sort of dropped into the middle of the "here's how Stormcast will do in 3rd Edition" preview, talking about how they'd be fine because of their small minimum unit sizes. Like Desfore mentioned, it's going to be weird considering the default range for melee weapons is 1". There's a bunch of units on 32mm bases with 1" weapons (Liberators, Chaos Warriors, Namarti Thralls, etc) that would lose a rank of attacks. It's certainly not stopped horde play in 40k, but it's coupled with a rule that explicitly allows the second rank to attack and hordes get supported with stratagems and such. I can't imagine AoS won't have a similar thing going on - we won't know because GW seems to showcase rule changes as if they were a products in a vacuum to sell and not interconnected rules that play off of each other. It's also funny that it makes cavalry units on their long bases have to double rank but doesn't stop them from tokyo drifting sideways everywhere.
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Jun 10, 2021 14:52
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Yeah like I said its so restrictive compared to the 40k version there's likely going to be a change either in how weapon ranges work or coherency exceptions for combat. that said the Soulblight article more or less confirmed that Blood Knights are meant to be able to charge after using Riders of Ruin 
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Jun 10, 2021 19:07
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Der Waffle Mous posted:that said the Soulblight article more or less confirmed that Blood Knights are meant to be able to charge after using Riders of Ruin Heck yeah, nice that they won't get bogged down by chaff hordes. Speaking of Blood Knights, earlier I was whining about their new base sizes meaning my movement trays don't fit any more. I was able to get a local guy to make some new 5x1 trays up, and they're up cheap right now: https://6squaredstudios.ca/store/square-movement-tray-5x1-75mm-x-42mm-bases/ No idea what shipping is like to wherever you are, but if you're in Canada they're good!
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Jun 10, 2021 20:21
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It was always pretty obvious that a ability with a name as aggressive as "riders of ruin", on heavy vampire cavalry, was never intended to be used only to disengage from combat.
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Jun 10, 2021 21:32
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The Deleter posted:Like Desfore mentioned, it's going to be weird considering the default range for melee weapons is 1". There's a bunch of units on 32mm bases with 1" weapons (Liberators, Chaos Warriors, Namarti Thralls, etc) that would lose a rank of attacks. It's certainly not stopped horde play in 40k, but it's coupled with a rule that explicitly allows the second rank to attack and hordes get supported with stratagems and such. I can't imagine AoS won't have a similar thing going on - we won't know because GW seems to showcase rule changes as if they were a products in a vacuum to sell and not interconnected rules that play off of each other. Honestly, if turns out they haven’t thought of this problem somehow (going to 40k style reach as well? Update all the problematic models warscrolls with new 2 inch reach?), or even thought it might be a problem, I’m going to have doubts about whether this is actually going to be the best edition ever. Especially coupled with the double turn staying - which is catastrophic unless they have come up with something ingenious to solve it. I truly hope it’s not sorta ccg style interrupt reactions for example, because that is so clunky and I foresee a lot of ‘oh, I already rolled’ in the competitive future.
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Jun 10, 2021 22:41
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Generic battalions leaked. From what it looks like only one grants the One-Drop deployment ability (which is a separate ability on its own so it may be granted elsewhere), but also this looks like the most 40k battalion equivalent with unit choices. Two look like Supreme Command equivalents that grant your army an extra "enhancement" choice which I don't think is something we've seen yet plus an extra command point per turn. The other three are focused on artillery, behemoths, and infantry specifically and essentially give you a free command once per game(?).
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Jun 11, 2021 02:07
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BaronVanAwesome posted:Heck yeah, nice that they won't get bogged down by chaff hordes. thanks for posting this. I'm putting 80 clanrats into my list so a 20+ base is just what I want and need https://6squaredstudios.ca/store/20x25mm-round-bases/
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Jun 11, 2021 07:26
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Here's two of the relavent images. I'm going to put everything in spoiler text so people who don't want to see this can save their blushes.  The way Reinforcement is worded suggests there is a limit on how many times you can Reinforce units, which might be dictated by game size. This isn't impressing me. Unless there is a limiting factor that we haven't seen yet (game size, points costs) the core battalions are going to work out like 40k 8e where you took 15 Skitarii to generate command points and then as many of whatever Imperium thing was most busted that month. I don't think it will be AS bad, since the big benefits aren't nearly as powerful and are tied to weird poo poo like multiple war machines, but it says something that my brain immediately attempted to divide what I had into multiple battalions. The Reinforcement mechanic seems unduly punishing to horde armies like Gloomspite and Skaven who want huge blocks of lovely troops but won't harm elite armies like Lumineth at all. Of course, haven't seen everything but, but this is a big Uh-Oh moment for me.
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Jun 11, 2021 07:28
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there's another leak of a french book that has 0-4 reinforced units at 2000pts which is, uh, not a lot. Admittedy I'm looking at my current lists and I'm not hitting that limit as much as I'd expect. Gloomspite specifically is in a bad place, though. Less because of the big blobs of stabbas and more stuff like the Squig Herds which have *tiny* minimum unit sizes.
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Jun 11, 2021 08:36
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I dont think tzeentch cares much about this, I never saw many lists taking more than the minimum sized unit of pink or brimstone horrors. More broadly though it does seem weirdly complicated especially compared to just being able to add models to a unit so long as its within the units size range. The real head scratcher for me though is the understrength unit stuff which im not sure I understand the purpose of.
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Jun 11, 2021 12:30
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Huge blocks of guys on smaller tables doesn't sound great, so the push for more smaller units is pretty sensible.
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Jun 11, 2021 12:56
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It's really weird for a unit like boingrot bounders, who currently have a unit size of 5-20. They could increase the minimum unit size to 10, but then you some no longer be able to have 15. I'm not sure what problem this is really meant to solve either.
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Jun 11, 2021 12:57
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/core-battalion-rules-shake-up-matched-play-army-building-in-the-new-edition/ It just so happens that the newest article deals with matched play. Coincidence? Who knows. v  v
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Jun 11, 2021 13:06
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neaden posted:It's really weird for a unit like boingrot bounders, who currently have a unit size of 5-20. They could increase the minimum unit size to 10, but then you some no longer be able to have 15. I'm not sure what problem this is really meant to solve either. Yeah, to be honest I don't see the point, and it turns out really weird for some units while others just don't care or even get a buff. For instance, Marauders can be taken in blocks of 20 or 40. You can reinforce them once and have 40. But does this mean that I can now take blocks of 60 marauders? Because that seems bonkers. That is too many Marauders to be buffed all at once by a single buff. A Warshrine can now buff 60 Marauders at a time giving them rerolls on all hits and wounds, which, combined with the fact that they can teleport with a Sorcerer and are almost guaranteed to make their charge rolls, seems... not great. On the other hand, Chaos Warriors come in packs of 5, so if you want to run 15 you have to spend half your reinforcements, and you can't take any more than 15. That is a unit that was already of middling strength that has it's options restricted even further. I guess that new army books will be updated to reflect this in the unit batch sizes, but that still means that some armies will be dealing with this for years on some of their units. Also echoing that I don't understand what problem this is trying to fix. It's not as if too many gigantic units are a big problem in this game, and what gigantic units there are tend to come in packs of 10 or 20 anyway. This doesn't really seem to introduce any nuance or complexity or force you to make tough decisions, it just fucks some units over arbitrarily. I dunno. I'm withholding judgement until I can read the whole rules and try it in a couple of games. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 13:22
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So if warscroll battalions are being kept, even though they've admitted balancing them is a nightmare and core battalions were meant to solve it, then what are core battalions for again?
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Jun 11, 2021 13:54
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The Deleter posted:So if warscroll battalions are being kept, even though they've admitted balancing them is a nightmare and core battalions were meant to solve it, then what are core battalions for again? matched play
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Jun 11, 2021 14:05
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Since its supposed to be coming out around the same time as the new edition the assumption going around is that there's going to be a lot of changes to a lot of armies' unit minimums in the GHB since those are all part of the pitched battle profile. Like Deathrattle skeletons going from 40 max to 30 max and losing their unit size bonus makes sense now. Its in a real loving weird place of not being able to take what's currently a full unit of Liberators, though. Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 15:10
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I wonder how this affects the Hedonites, they got super hosed over with their battletome and I dont know how much of that was futureproofing for 3rd as opposed to gw just dropping the ball.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:15
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AnEdgelord posted:I wonder how this affects the Hedonites, they got super hosed over with their battletome and I dont know how much of that was futureproofing for 3rd as opposed to gw just dropping the ball. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/the-new-edition-is-a-buffet-of-delights-for-the-hedonites-of-slaanesh/ Something which they covered today to some extent.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:30
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I wonder if the matched play article was written specifically because of the leaks because unlike the army articles it seems to go into the reasoning behind the changes.
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Jun 11, 2021 15:43
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I just want Gloomspite to be decent.  They're my favorite models to paint but they are gonna need an incredibly drastic overhaul to even be fun to play as the "goofy army that probably won't win" faction. Very curious to see what happens with them, because every new rule I hear about makes it sound like they'll be even shittier than they already are, which is impressive considering they've spent their entire existence in the top 3 worst armies in the game.
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Jun 11, 2021 16:36
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I just want Gloomspite to be decent.   Putting the finishing touches on a unit of stabbas.  Got 6 rock trolls ready to go after. I already love 'em, it's really an incredible kit
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Jun 11, 2021 16:59
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Since its supposed to be coming out around the same time as the new edition the assumption going around is that there's going to be a lot of changes to a lot of armies' unit minimums in the GHB since those are all part of the pitched battle profile. Yeah I don't hate the change in the vacuum, but this seems super weird without going back and editing stat lines for a ton of units, especially battleline ones. Especially at lower point games from their chart, at 750 points I can only have 1 reinforced unit - so one squad of 20 or 30 skeletons in this case? Any others are MSU? Edit: although I suppose this is all from the "Cobtest of Generals" battle pack so this isn't necessarily true accross the board BaronVanAwesome fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 11, 2021 |
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Jun 11, 2021 17:05
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I like that they've setup matched play info for 1500 point lists. The +/- 250 point stuff of 2nd edition didn't really do what we wanted as we were building up our lists over time. We often found ourselves wanting to play more than 1250 or less than 1750 before we had enough assembled and painted models for 2k lists.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:07
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Geisladisk posted:On the other hand, Chaos Warriors come in packs of 5, so if you want to run 15 you have to spend half your reinforcements, and you can't take any more than 15. That is a unit that was already of middling strength that has it's options restricted even further. a unit of 15 Chaos Warriors would just be 1 Reinforced unit, allowing you to take 3 more reinforced units (in a 2k game). You reinforced the warriors twice, because they are battleline, but they are still just one unit. I kinda like the Reinforced Units idea but I'm not sure what this changes that just changing min/max unit sizes couldn't have done. Letting battlelines reinforce twice means most of them are basically unchanged in practice, and I don't think there were a lot of armies running hordes of non-battleline units? its weird and mostly just seems to be pushing for people to run MSU more. edit: I just realized that the actual purpose of the rule is probably to limit hordes in smaller point games. also the battalion changes are interesting.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:11
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Are they doing a GHB this year? I know they did with 2nd launch but if they're going that the rulebook to be all inclusive it seems a bit much.
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Jun 11, 2021 17:26
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Are they doing a GHB this year? I know they did with 2nd launch but if they're going that the rulebook to be all inclusive it seems a bit much. Yes, they announced the GHB 2021 along with the launch date. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/05/dominion-release-date-revealed-find-out-when-you-can-pre-order-the-ultimate-launch-box/
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Jun 11, 2021 17:38
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They're almost certainly going to have to change minimum unit sizes for at least some things to make this change work
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Jun 11, 2021 18:20
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