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Squalid posted:Tho tbh civil wars are often sparked by much less. For example the US revolution and Civil War, inspired by a small tax increase and the prospect that maybe at some point the right to own slaves could be limited, respectively. but slavery is a states' right, and therefore not a minor issue 
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Aug 6, 2018 23:55
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Squalid posted:Tho tbh civil wars are often sparked by much less. For example the US revolution and Civil War, inspired by a small tax increase and the prospect that maybe at some point the right to own slaves could be limited, respectively. The revolutionary war being over taxes is modern fairytale stuff. It was just a convenient proxy war that France decided to wage, on the backs of several powerful landowners who realised they could probably steal the entire thing and get away with it. The taxes were wholly symbolic on Englands part, to try and recoup some of the losses from America forcing them into the French-Native American war. Hell, the taxed tea was actively cheaper and better than the stuff the colonies had at the time. As for the Civil War, the right to own slaves meant the death of their entire way of life and economy. Its entirely on their own heads, because the fuckers had every single opportunity to industrialize and just refused because they preferred enslaving Africans, but losing slavery was an existential threat to the south. As can be proven by its century and a half of failure since then. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 23:56
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Fulchrum posted:The revolutionary war being over taxes is modern fairytale stuff. It was just a convenient proxy war that France decided to wage, on the backs of several powerful landowners who realised they could probably steal the entire thing and get away with it. The taxes were wholly symbolic on Englands part, to try and recoup some of the losses from America forcing them into the French-Native American war. Hell, the taxed tea was actively cheaper and better than the stuff the colonies had at the time. You are missing the point. These civil wars weren’t fought because people’s lives or wealth were imminently threatened, people weren’t starving in the streets nor facing any immediate hardship. Desperation CAN cause civil conflicts, but they can also be be produced by much more abstract motivations.
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Aug 7, 2018 00:40
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suck my woke dick posted:but slavery is a states' right, and therefore not a minor issue Unless you were a CSA state, and then it was Constitutionally protected. The only state right the Southern states didn't have was the ability to decide on slavery. Irony.
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Aug 7, 2018 00:45
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Anyone ITT who wouldn’t organize (or at least participate in) a mob liberate a child concentration camp by force of arms is a coward and would be literally complicit in crimes against humanity. Im assuming you mean liberate white kids who live nearby you only, right?
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Aug 7, 2018 02:56
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HorrificExistence posted:If you're defining civil war as part of the country succeeding then I agree. I agree there is zero chance of any part of America succeeding at anything by 2020
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Aug 7, 2018 03:20
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:Don't know how big the various nukes are. How many nukes are needed to blow up the General DC area, or the bigger cities: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Huge chunks of upstate New York are broke as poo poo my guy
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Aug 7, 2018 03:49
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Huge chunks of upstate New York are broke as poo poo my guy yeah my brother moved up to the sodus point area to marry some girl he met in an MMO about 6 years ago and I'm like GG how the gently caress did you actually find someplace worse than South Carolina dumbshit
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Aug 7, 2018 05:29
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Anyone ITT who wouldn’t organize (or at least participate in) a mob liberate a child concentration camp by force of arms is a coward and would be literally complicit in crimes against humanity. Or maybe we just don't feel like getting murdered by the most powerful military on the planet.
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Aug 7, 2018 06:03
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shame on an IGA posted:yeah my brother moved up to the sodus point area to marry some girl he met in an MMO about 6 years ago and I'm like GG how the gently caress did you actually find someplace worse than South Carolina dumbshit Yeah it turns out rhe city absolutely fucks the state up in terms of optics
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Aug 7, 2018 16:20
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Yeah it turns out rhe city absolutely fucks the state up in terms of optics You mean that outside of the city, the urban and suburban areas are full of regressives? What a thing that's totally unique to New York.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:53
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https://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1026255134886514689 It's nice to see the "Antifa" folks actually go after powerful institutions for once instead of assaulting random people. Yeah, 2020 is going to be violent as gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:07
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Slutitution posted:https://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1026255134886514689 When they try it in San Diego then I'll be impressed
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Aug 7, 2018 23:34
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Squalid posted:Tho tbh civil wars are often sparked by much less. For example the US revolution and Civil War, inspired by a small tax increase and the prospect that maybe at some point the right to own slaves could be limited, respectively. A small tax increase on various goods that were designed to inflict pain on the colonists via proxy. Little different than now when the us government can move over vast swathes of land in little time.
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Aug 8, 2018 03:49
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LeoMarr posted:A small tax increase on various goods that were designed to inflict pain on the colonists via proxy. Little different than now when the us government can move over vast swathes of land in little time. Bullshit. The taxes were better for the colonists. Instead of drinking smuggled bags of twigs and leaves for exorbitant markups, they got top of the line tea from the East India Trading Company. The tea after taxes was cheaper AND better than before.
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Aug 8, 2018 03:54
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LeoMarr posted:A small tax increase on various goods that were designed to inflict pain on the colonists via proxy. Little different than now when the us government can move over vast swathes of land in little time. Do you just exclusively post while hammered or is there some other reason you never make any sense.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:20
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Squalid posted:Do you just exclusively post while hammered or is there some other reason you never make any sense. He means the government literally moves over the land quickly. Like in Mortal Engines. Or that one episode of The Simpsons where they moved the town 20 miles away.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:26
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Fulchrum posted:He means the government literally moves over the land quickly. Like in Mortal Engines. Or that one episode of The Simpsons where they moved the town 20 miles away. lol I hadn't heard of mortal engines before but I definitely hope it is what Leomar had in mind.
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Aug 8, 2018 04:33
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A moving government over a stationary landmass causes the patriotic field of the government to excite the elementary particles of governance, or, "electi-ons", in the landmass. This causes the landmass to become charged and start producing a flow of "electi-ons" in "DC". This is why presidential candidates move around a lot before they become elected. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 04:38
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Squalid posted:Do you just exclusively post while hammered or is there some other reason you never make any sense. What I said makes complete sense. All people felt of government was tax at that point, altering taxes created a whole era of turmoil. Nowadays the us government could shore up riot control anywhere in the country, its a lot harder to organize effective resistance when the power projection of our government is so quick. Tax in the old days was a means to exact control on the colonies. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 06:29
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Again, the taxes were only there cause the British had been forced in to fighting the French- Native American war by colonist fuckups. That's a tangible contribution and a show of force right there.
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Aug 8, 2018 07:07
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Fulchrum posted:Again, the taxes were only there cause the British had been forced in to fighting the French- Native American war by colonist fuckups. That's a tangible contribution and a show of force right there. Um the colonists were not allowed to settle in the newly conquered areas. They were turned into native american zones, so colonists pay tax for a war that gave gave them less not more. Notice that ohio was only settled after the war for independence. This is still not a lesser issue. The colonists were fully justified to find dismay in taxes and policies made to wall them off from the territory they just spilled blood for
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Aug 8, 2018 16:55
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Slutitution posted:
this country is violent as gently caress in general but we're not headed for outright civil war. Come the gently caress on.
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Aug 8, 2018 17:02
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Tim Raines IRL posted:this country is violent as gently caress in general but we're not headed for outright civil war. Come the gently caress on. I never said outright civil war. It'll be more like 1968.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:07
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Fulchrum posted:The revolutionary war being over taxes is modern fairytale stuff. It was just a convenient proxy war that France decided to wage, on the backs of several powerful landowners who realised they could probably steal the entire thing and get away with it. The taxes were wholly symbolic on Englands part, to try and recoup some of the losses from America forcing them into the French-Native American war. Hell, the taxed tea was actively cheaper and better than the stuff the colonies had at the time. Fulchrum posted:Bullshit. The taxes were better for the colonists. Instead of drinking smuggled bags of twigs and leaves for exorbitant markups, they got top of the line tea from the East India Trading Company. The tea after taxes was cheaper AND better than before. Fulchrum posted:Again, the taxes were only there cause the British had been forced in to fighting the French- Native American war by colonist fuckups. That's a tangible contribution and a show of force right there. It really is impossible for the brits to let this go, huh
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Aug 8, 2018 22:08
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I mean the US really does put out some shite about the revolutionary war. It's a war fought by a bunch of rich slavers who got pissy about taxes against a section of a much larger global shithead empire, there's not really a good side.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:35
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OwlFancier posted:A moving government over a stationary landmass causes the patriotic field of the government to excite the elementary particles of governance, or, "electi-ons", in the landmass. This causes the landmass to become charged and start producing a flow of "electi-ons" in "DC". This is also the reason why you saw traveling courts in the medieval ages. This precious science was lost, Versailles was built, and BAM: French Revolution.
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Aug 8, 2018 23:46
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LeoMarr posted:Um the colonists were not allowed to settle in the newly conquered areas. They were turned into native american zones, so colonists pay tax for a war that gave gave them less not more. Notice that ohio was only settled after the war for independence. This is still not a lesser issue. The colonists were fully justified to find dismay in taxes and policies made to wall them off from the territory they just spilled blood for That... is quite a take. Poor colonists didn't get to put the natives to the axe.
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Aug 9, 2018 10:05
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shame on an IGA posted:When they try it in San Diego then I'll be impressed Considering marines, unless the Antifa consists of underage Okinawan girls they don't have much to worry about.
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Aug 9, 2018 11:06
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Kemper Boyd posted:Considering marines, unless the Antifa consists of underage Okinawan girls they don't have much to worry about. lol if you think the locals have anything but vaguely tolerant disdain for the marines here, no one will give a poo poo if some recruitment center gets busted up- enlisted drunk driving shitheads have killed way too many people already
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Aug 9, 2018 11:20
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zapplez posted:America will not have another civil war by 2020. The USA will not exist by 2030. 
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Aug 9, 2018 15:00
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Anyone ITT who wouldn’t organize (or at least participate in) a mob liberate a child concentration camp by force of arms is a coward and would be literally complicit in crimes against humanity. Ain't nobody got time for that
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Aug 9, 2018 18:08
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Fulchrum posted:Again, the taxes were only there cause the British had been forced in to fighting the French- Native American war by colonist fuckups. That's a tangible contribution and a show of force right there. Ehh, not really. New France was engaged in very serious and aggressive expansion in the Ohio Valley even before the colonials. The large french investments and fort building were the reason colonial expeditions met failure after all. Young Washington certainly blundered, but the mission itself was doomed from the start due to the quantity and quality of French/ French allies in the area. The political situation in Europe, and Britain's alienation (which was its own fault by the way) of former allies made conflict with France exceedingly likely regardless of what happened in the Americas. American colonials also had cause for frustration at what exactly they got out of wars. New Englanders were still furious that they took Louisbourg in the War of the Austrian Succession but lost it in the peace negations that followed. Britain may well have been acting in the interests of the empire as a whole, but it was hard to understand in North America. The many wars between New France and the American colonies before the Seven Years War involved minimal British military involvement, making the colonists believe rightly or wrongly that they had paid their dues. Piss-poor communication and constant flip-flopping in policy made Parliament and the Crown appear both tyrannical yet paradoxically easy to challenge. That's a combination that encourages more and more radical forms of resistance. I'm not trying to argue one side was right or wrong (and there were more than two sides), but I think you paint to rosy a picture towards British policy in the period. I would also add that you are missing part of the antagonizing force behind tea. East India Company Tea was being dumped on American markets, swamping local supply networks in a clumsy move that colonists rightly saw as a corporate giveaway. Its also worth keeping in mind that even small tax increases carry tremendous weight to a population once used to decades of essentially benign neglect. Bear in mind that contemporary historians stress that antipathy towards Britain was more widespread than assumed among white colonists, and that yeomen farmers, and not the elite, were among the first to suggest the taking of arms and the removal of royal officials from colonial towns. The idea of it being a revolution of just rich planters and merchants is more than century old at this point and terribly over simplified. People in various social strata had perfectly valid reasons for interest or disinterest in one of the opposing parties. Now, I will agree that many (but not all) who fought for the revolution did not see the creation of a nation that they had envisioned or supported. A middling white man from South Carolina's upcountry and say, an Oneida in New York were fighting for very different motivations and can't be painted with the same brush.
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Aug 9, 2018 18:38
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Fulchrum posted:You mean that outside of the city, the urban and suburban areas are full of regressives? What a thing that's totally unique to New York. I meant that the entire state is boiled down to The City when people think of it but go off on the thing I didn't say
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Aug 9, 2018 23:29
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I see way more confederate battle flags around upstate NY when I visit than at home in SC, it's so weird
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Aug 9, 2018 23:45
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shame on an IGA posted:I see way more confederate battle flags around upstate NY when I visit than at home in SC, it's so weird There's a house in rural MN out near where I went to college that had a giant rebel flag in the front window. That's some trailer park poo poo even back home in GA lol.
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Aug 10, 2018 01:16
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chairface posted:There's a house in rural MN out near where I went to college that had a giant rebel flag in the front window. That's some trailer park poo poo even back home in GA lol. The Confederate battle flag has become a symbol of white identarians, regardless of geography. As America becomes a majority minority country more and more white people are having to adjust to the reality that they have a race and are not just "normal" or "American". So long as the only people who speak up for white interests specifically use the Confederate battle flag, those white Americans for whom thier white identity has gained new importantance will be drawn to the flag as a symbol. Fun side question. What is the "moderate" socially acceptable version of advocacy for white people's interests explicitly? Because right now the only people who are seen to fighting for white interests specifically are the radicals. The unfortunate effect of this is the continued radicalization of new racially aware white Americans. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 10, 2018 12:45
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There is no socially acceptable version of advocacy for white people specifically, because the only reason to want to look out for white people's interests specifically is because you are a racist.
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Aug 10, 2018 15:02
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Yeah what white people specific thing is there you think needs advocating for? Slightly increased susceptibility to malaria? Genetic predisposition to looking like the guy in my av?
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Aug 10, 2018 15:11
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sirtommygunn posted:There is no socially acceptable version of advocacy for white people specifically, because the only reason to want to look out for white people's interests specifically is because you are a racist. I would say that is historically correct. For most of US history politics was just a disagreement about which groups of white people are in control of the country. So when people talk about the Catholic vs Protestant vote, it's implicitly always white people. Or Nascar dad's and soccer mom's, more white people. Or Reagan Democrats, etc. Back when the political parties were basically fighting over the various slices of the white pie, all politics was for whites. But as he demographics of the country has changed. IE Obama's coalition would not have won in any previous election. This has caused the Democratic party to reject all of the subtle/dog whistle appeals to white interests. This leaves the Republican party to appeal to this voting Bloc, and as the power of white people declines I expect the appeals to be more direct and explicit as whites become a plurality. If the culture's response to white people seeking representation to reflect thier groups needs and preferences explicitly is treated and racism in a prima facie manner, then those whites who hold no personal feelings of bigotry or hate will be driven to the groups (the alt-right/radicals/etc.) which are explicitly speaking about politics in a racial manner which appeals to them. Until that changes more white people will be radicalized to the alt-right point of view. Which in the spirit of the thread is what pushes the country closer to civil conflict. It will probably take at least 40 years of things getting worse before we get any sort of change. TL:DR White fragility is a thing and loss aversion is a strongly felt motivation. Whites need a socially and politically acceptable way to advocate for thier interests in an explicit manner. This will have the positive effect of siphoning off most of the support of the alt-right (supremists/separatists) as non-bigoted whites will find the moderate position more palatable.
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Aug 10, 2018 15:39
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