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doverhog posted:Yeah, that happened, but it was a condemnation of his character, and the characters of the Minds who gave the squids Culture warships so they could make the Culture wake up and be more warlike again. The Affront were like the Idirans, except worse in every way. They genetically engineered their females to feel more pain from sex, and had a slave class also genetically engineered to be slaves. I don't remember most of that book, but you're right that The Affront (that name is a little on the nose lol) are meant to be hated and are meant to be a condemnation of hyper-masculine culture. Which made it all the more surprising that the Culture negotiator liked them so much. Although, IIRC, the main guy from The Player of Games also kind of liked the insane society that he was playing space chess against, and when he went back home he was bored by The Cultures safe and painless society.
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Jul 14, 2018 23:58
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doverhog posted:Yeah, that happened, but it was a condemnation of his character, and the characters of the Minds who gave the squids Culture warships so they could make the Culture wake up and be more warlike again. The Affront were like the Idirans, except worse in every way. They genetically engineered their females to feel more pain from sex, and had a slave class also genetically engineered to be slaves. Interesting how you interpret them based on (i assume) your own cultural frame of reference. To me (a brit) the Affront always seemed like an exaggreation of the archetype of the cheerfully cruel and buffoonish British upper classes, with a dash of the decadence and depravity of a Tiberius or Caligula. Basically the savagery of the upper classes, stripped of the veneer of polite society.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:01
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The Dennis System posted:I don't remember most of that book, but you're right that The Affront (that name is a little on the nose lol) are meant to be hated and are meant to be a condemnation of hyper-masculine culture. Which made it all the more surprising that the Culture negotiator liked them so much. Although, IIRC, the main guy from The Player of Games also kind of liked the insane society that he was playing space chess against, and when he went back home he was bored by The Cultures safe and painless society. also he was in the closet
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Jul 15, 2018 00:05
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communism bitch posted:Interesting how you interpret them based on (i assume) your own cultural frame of reference. To me (a brit) the Affront always seemed like an exaggreation of the archetype of the cheerfully cruel and buffoonish British upper classes, with a dash of the decadence and depravity of a Tiberius or Caligula. I have no contact really with either class of people, it was a literary device to describe how if you look at a stereotype closer, you may not like what you find. However, based on what you said, I guess the low and upper classes have something in common, their desire to subjugate their lessers and inflict sexual violence on women.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:16
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The Dennis System posted:I don't remember most of that book, but you're right that The Affront (that name is a little on the nose lol) are meant to be hated and are meant to be a condemnation of hyper-masculine culture. Which made it all the more surprising that the Culture negotiator liked them so much. Although, IIRC, the main guy from The Player of Games also kind of liked the insane society that he was playing space chess against, and when he went back home he was bored by The Cultures safe and painless society. Some of my favorite highlights of the Affront: -The aforementioned living squash balls - A common eating utensil of the Affront is a miniature harpoon gun, for spearing food from your fellow diners across the room - like most races at their level of tech, Affront ships have a capacity for self-repair. However, the Affront have designed their ships' self-repair systems to leave badass battle scars
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Jul 15, 2018 00:27
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Applewhite posted:living squash balls mods? please? please, mods, please.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:41
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Applewhite posted:Some of my favorite highlights of the Affront: One of the Elencher drones exploited the battle scarring thing to burn it's own coordinates into one of their cruiser's hull's when it got murdered.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:38
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THE loving MOON posted:One of the Elencher drones exploited the battle scarring thing to burn it's own coordinates into one of their cruiser's hull's when it got murdered. I loved that part because I figured out what it was doing before the book revealed it.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:42
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Applewhite posted:I loved that part because I figured out what it was doing before the book revealed it. Ditto, earlier on the Afront's limited auto repair was explained in a little bit of depth, and that's not something Banks usually does unless there's gonna be a quiz on it later
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Jul 15, 2018 01:48
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One of my favourite bits from the series is from Excession. I'm probably misremembering, but the Culture-ship fleet appropriated by the Affront just getting entirely overwhelmed and having the lead renegade Culture ship just going "this was a bad idea, I regret this" and surrendering/suiciding was a great buildup with a very satisfying, albeit incredibly abrupt conclusion. The humility just seems very in-character.
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Jul 15, 2018 02:41
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Kalsco posted:One of my favourite bits from the series is from Excession. I'm probably misremembering, but the Culture-ship fleet appropriated by the Affront just getting entirely overwhelmed and having the lead renegade Culture ship just going "this was a bad idea, I regret this" and surrendering/suiciding was a great buildup with a very satisfying, albeit incredibly abrupt conclusion. The humility just seems very in-character. That wasn't the renegade ship just having a change of heart--that was the Killing Time basically real-time hacking it to extract information--the renegade ship was constantly trying to prevent itself from recalling the other Minds involved in the conspiracy during the hack, but did give up the mindstate of the human it killed on the Store, then prompting it to commit suicide. It had done that to several of the other ships in the fleet, too, IIRC. Also, while the Culture renegades helped the Affront get the fleet, they did it because they hated the Affront. They knew the Culture would have no issue handling a fleet of centuries-old warships, but would take action against the Affront, limiting their expansion and forcefully curbing their...enthusiasm. Since the conspiracy was uncovered, the Culture couldn't justify decisive action against the Affront. A good line to give potential readers: Ulver laughed. "It looks," she snorted, "like a dildo!" "That's appropriate," Curt Lyne said. "Armed, it can gently caress solar systems." (describing the Psychopath Class ex-Rapid Offensive Unit Frank Exchange of Views) Pyroclastic fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 03:20
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Haha welp, turns out my memory is bad. I definitely do remember the hacking and destruction of other ships in the fleet, but I guess the one for the principal renegade was just lost in memory to me. Or I read it differently. Still a good scene.
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Jul 15, 2018 03:51
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I’m still a little blurry on whether the lead renegade ship was effectored into killing itself (and the “reprogramming” took the form of suicidal remorse for its actions) or whether it genuinely felt remorse and killed itself.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:07
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i don't think minds are usually that emotional
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Jul 15, 2018 04:08
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Also effector weapons are the scariest and most badass sci fi weapon I’ve ever read and I wish they’d turn up in more sci fi.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:08
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It's been a while since I read it but I remember it clearly being a description of what happens to a Mind that is effectored. *remember, Minds always have the capacity to effector any and all humans they encounter. Read, alter, erase, whatever they want really. The choose not to, because ethics. doverhog fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 04:09
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doverhog posted:It's been a while since I read it but I remember it clearly being a description of what happens to a Mind that is effectored.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:19
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what was the book with the psycho ship that killed everything in a couple of seconds and also traded spaces with some dude that hated gays and got the dude butt hosed all the time, was that the book with the hells hosted on some planet?
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Jul 15, 2018 04:22
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let it mellow posted:what was the book with the psycho ship that killed everything in a couple of seconds and also traded spaces with some dude that hated gays and got the dude butt hosed all the time, was that the book with the hells hosted on some planet? Surface Detail.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:26
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let it mellow posted:what was the book with the psycho ship that killed everything in a couple of seconds and also traded spaces with some dude that hated gays and got the dude butt hosed all the time, was that the book with the hells hosted on some planet? I think you're mixing like three books together, but I don't remember for sure.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:26
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The Dennis System posted:I think you're mixing like three books together, but I don't remember for sure. No that was all surface detail. The psycho ship was fighting the Culture Weeaboos who were funding hell.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:27
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Applewhite posted:No that was all surface detail. The psycho ship was fighting the Culture Weeaboos who were funding hell. That was all one book? drat. Why would the Culture Weeaboos fund the digital hells?
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Jul 15, 2018 04:35
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Who were the Culture weeaboos? The main point I remember from Surface Detail is, you can never have a virtual war, not really, because the losing side will use real world weapons if they are losing. As they should really. I would not be willing to let Hell be a thing because I lost an argument, or a game of HOTS. In war, all options are exhausted.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:35
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I think Ian Banks made The Culture too powerful. That one psycho ship destroyed an entire fleet of Culture Weeaboo ships in two seconds and, if I remember right, the Culture Weeaboos were nearly technologically equivalent to The Culture. I mean, those Culture AIs are basically gods. (Although making those AIs nearly godlike might have been the point, I don't know.)
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Jul 15, 2018 04:39
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the minds were the culture. humans were basically pets. also i don't think i ever read surface detail so that's something to do.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:42
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that was a hosed up book, I probably should reread it, I liked the psycho ship
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Jul 15, 2018 04:42
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The Dennis System posted:. (Although making those AIs nearly godlike might have been the point, I don't know.) I think there's something to that. It is mentioned a few times throughout the series that the Culture has basically been at the cusp slash able to "ascend" to some higher existence (which is what pretty much every other civilization does when they are able) for quite some time but chooses not to.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:45
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The Dennis System posted:I think Ian Banks made The Culture too powerful. That one psycho ship destroyed an entire fleet of Culture Weeaboo ships in two seconds and, if I remember right, the Culture Weeaboos were nearly technologically equivalent to The Culture. I mean, those Culture AIs are basically gods. (Although making those AIs nearly godlike might have been the point, I don't know.) That is a major point. What to do, when you are like a god? The Culture does not want to take over the galaxy, but they don't wanna sit idly either. Hence Contact, and Special Circumstances. That question is what all the books are about really. *Also do not gently caress with a Culture warship, they were created to fight in a real war, where the Culture might have lost. They do not gently caress around. A Culture warship dies a million times, lives forever, and is just waiting for permission to do what it was made for. doverhog fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 04:47
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Moridin920 posted:I think there's something to that. It is mentioned a few times throughout the series that the Culture has basically been at the cusp slash able to "ascend" to some higher existence (which is what pretty much every other civilization does when they are able) for quite some time but chooses not to. Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. Come to think of it, there's a whole book about a society deciding to ascend at the same time. I guess I just need to reread some of those books.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:51
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The Dennis System posted:I think Ian Banks made The Culture too powerful. That one psycho ship destroyed an entire fleet of Culture Weeaboo ships in two seconds and, if I remember right, the Culture Weeaboos were nearly technologically equivalent to The Culture. I mean, those Culture AIs are basically gods. (Although making those AIs nearly godlike might have been the point, I don't know.) the point of that battle was the Culture made an effort to hide the effectiveness of their weapons from their enemies and allies. Falling Outside Moral Constraints disguised itself as an older and lesser warship for that purpose, and it was one of many "nuclear options" that the Culture fielded across their sphere of influence. it was asymmetrical warfare concepts but with the assumption that the more technologically advance side would wipe out an enemy with nukes when they were just figuring out gunpowder.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:13
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The Dennis System posted:Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. Come to think of it, there's a whole book about a society deciding to ascend at the same time. I guess I just need to reread some of those books. That is the last book, Hydrogen Sonata the one of the main themes of the series is to explore some of the contradictions inherent in an Ideal Post-Scarcity Liberalized Society. Also really big spaceships with silly names.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:18
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The Dennis System posted:Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. Come to think of it, there's a whole book about a society deciding to ascend at the same time. I guess I just need to reread some of those books. ”Click your heels three times and recite ‘I sublime I sublime I sublime’”
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Jul 15, 2018 05:31
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they are good books and there will never be any more again ever and I'm sad
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Jul 15, 2018 05:36
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MRC48B posted:That is the last book, Hydrogen Sonata OMFG FURRY posted:the point of that battle was the Culture made an effort to hide the effectiveness of their weapons from their enemies and allies. Falling Outside Moral Constraints disguised itself as an older and lesser warship for that purpose, and it was one of many "nuclear options" that the Culture fielded across their sphere of influence. A lot of the broader themes of these books flew right over my head lol.
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Jul 15, 2018 06:27
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The Dennis System posted:A lot of the broader themes of these books flew right over my head lol. Same I need to reread em
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Jul 15, 2018 06:53
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free hubcaps posted:The part where Horza is stuck with the wierd cannibal cult and he kills the fat cannibal leader by letting him eat his fingers (cuz horzas blood is acid or poison or something?) was prob my favorite scene. That whole bit on the ringworld was awesome, really this book has so many amazing set pieces it’s shocking no one has tried to make a movie about it yet considering how popular SF is these days The best part of the ring world was when the space captain said "Remember you can't use anti-gravity on ring worlds because it's not gravity pulling you down but centrifugal force". But then of course someone had to try it anyway and became a splat on the floor.
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Jul 15, 2018 09:35
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let it mellow posted:what was the book with the psycho ship that killed everything in a couple of seconds and also traded spaces with some dude that hated gays and got the dude butt hosed all the time, was that the book with the hells hosted on some planet? The rear end in a top hat ship who messed up the human who volunteered to be its avatar was in "Surface Detail"
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Jul 15, 2018 09:39
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Moridin920 posted:Same I need to reread em With the new Amazon series coming out soon, there’s never been a better time to read the books.
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Jul 15, 2018 10:33
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communism bitch posted:Interesting how you interpret them based on (i assume) your own cultural frame of reference. To me (a brit) the Affront always seemed like an exaggreation of the archetype of the cheerfully cruel and buffoonish British upper classes, with a dash of the decadence and depravity of a Tiberius or Caligula. This is the same read I got from them, everything from the manner of speaking to the casual attempts at buggery when dealing with each other, they're aristocratic as hell. Also all this talk of Excession and no mention of the Grey Area investigating a world on which a total genocide occurred by effectoring the brain of one of the participants, and deciding to mind gently caress him to death by forcing him to relive the last moments of everyone they killed in said genocide , for shame.
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Jul 15, 2018 10:46
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Plavski posted:Matter was barely from the Culture's perspective at all, it was basically a slightly fantastical Medieval fantasy book. It's probably why I liked it the least. Matter is great, it's Banks doing Shakespeare. The title is everything, it's about what matters, and it's about matter.
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