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Chuu posted:Oh wow I had no idea this game existed. This show really left an impression on me when I first saw it ~20 years ago and I can't wait to see what this LP brings. About the show though . . .
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Aug 24, 2018 18:02
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Yeah I recently rewatched and it was actually better the second time for me. Other non-show versions of Utena range from kind of interesting if disappointing in some aspects (the movie) to just offensively missing the point (the manga), but this game is....definitely something. I really want to see where this goes, just because the production values are higher than I'd have expected.
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Aug 27, 2018 18:37
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Flac posted:Yeah I recently rewatched and it was actually better the second time for me. Other non-show versions of Utena range from kind of interesting if disappointing in some aspects (the movie) to just offensively missing the point (the manga), but this game is....definitely something. I really want to see where this goes, just because the production values are higher than I'd have expected. I appreciate that, thanks for reading. Like I said in the OP, my biggest motivation for doing this is it's a real shame that this cool little game (11 endings! Full voice acting!) isn't better known. I just think it should have a bigger audience. I should probably thank Dallbun for doing such a good job with translating this (translating a text-heavy VN is no joke) and making it accessible to the rest of us. Vote is 7-5-1 for Joke over Engaged or Change Subject, so I'm calling it. Update either tomorrow or Wednesday. Next time, we'll see whether Protagonist Us has a sense of humor.
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Aug 28, 2018 00:33
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Flac posted:Yeah I recently rewatched and it was actually better the second time for me. Other non-show versions of Utena range from kind of interesting if disappointing in some aspects (the movie) to just offensively missing the point (the manga), but this game is....definitely something. I really want to see where this goes, just because the production values are higher than I'd have expected. have you seen the new musical? it's pretty good. It's not out quite yet over here but Empty Movement has streamed it a couple times. They announce streams on their Twitter https://twitter.com/ohtori_nu
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Aug 28, 2018 01:14
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Flac posted:Yeah I recently rewatched and it was actually better the second time for me. Other non-show versions of Utena range from kind of interesting if disappointing in some aspects (the movie) to just offensively missing the point (the manga), but this game is....definitely something. I really want to see where this goes, just because the production values are higher than I'd have expected. The manga was first, so can it miss the point to start with? The anime seemed like it was going in the same direction at first (end of the first season) before doing the Black Rose arc and suddenly veering onto a different course. But I kinda like that, it makes each version worth checking out just to see how different the stories end up fro the same starting point.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:00
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Ikuhara didn't have the same restrictions of like, an editor who had ideas on what sells, that Saito had, for one. He pretty much did what he pleased. I think they were produced and came out concurrently tho.
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Aug 28, 2018 02:04
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I will say that the manga plus the movie add up to make me way, way more sympathetic/soft on Touga than his anime version strictly deserves. More on that when we meet Touga, but it's totally possible for characterizations to bleed into each other. Edit: so far, the thread's first three votes have exactly mirrored my choices the first time I played through this. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 02:38
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Patter Song posted:I will say that the manga plus the movie add up to make me way, way more sympathetic/soft on Touga than his anime version strictly deserves. More on that when we meet Touga, but it's totally possible for characterizations to bleed into each other. EDIT: Actually, if Patter Song is fine with it, I'd like to do an effortpost aimed at people who've seen the show. Feel free to nix it, though, it'd probably be decently long and a big block of black isn't super pleasant to scroll by. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 03:37
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Lol. It was all I could do to avoid writing a multiparagraph spoilered response to the Nanami discussion earlier. Tell you what: could you wait until Touga shows up to post it?
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Aug 28, 2018 04:07
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Patter Song posted:Lol. It was all I could do to avoid writing a multiparagraph spoilered response to the Nanami discussion earlier.
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Aug 28, 2018 04:57
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Patter Song posted:I should probably thank Dallbun for doing such a good job with translating this (translating a text-heavy VN is no joke) and making it accessible to the rest of us. I appreciate the thanks, and it was indeed a lot of effort. However, to some extent, I was expendable. People with adequate Japanese proficiency aren't that rare; if Ayu Ohseki and I hadn't translated this game, someone else would have, sooner or later. In my opinion the biggest props should go to Endless, who showed up on the Empty Movement forums out of nowhere ready to tackle the programming side of things. Not a lot of people are eager to work with old Sega Saturn games, but Endless ripped the assets; created the patcher, translation checker, and other tools; made the translated versions of the images; and solved a lot of the myriad problems involved in getting this out the door. (Not all the problems; we never were able to put subtitles on the videos, for instance). In any case, we're all glad to see people enjoying it. I'll be following along and will try not to be too much of a loudmouth. I did a screenshot LP of the game myself back in the day, translating as I went, so it's fun to be on the other side. 
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Aug 28, 2018 06:56
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OK, so if I posted all the way until the next vote, this update would be way too long. As anyone who had played this game could tell you, the next vote is a long way off from where we were. Therefore, Chapter 4 here will have no vote at the end of it. I will try to get Chapter 5, with the next vote, out on Friday or Saturday. Chapter IV: Pleased To Meet You, Won't You Guess My Name? Soundtrack: After School Girls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-G1ipZvIjE  OK, Protagonist Us, defuse the tension. This whole dueling cult is a joke, right?    This is bad and you should feel bad. The game agrees and plays the "you made a bad joke" noise, which is something this game keeps track of, amazingly enough. That said, it's a hidden variable, so if you miss the musical cue, you'll have no idea. No indicator pops up on screen filling in a "bad jokes" roses meter. Utena: You think we're joking, don't you? Patter Song: What, you're not? Utena: Unfortunately, it's the truth. At least, those Student Council guys seem really serious about it. They say they're going to get the Power to Revolutionize the World. Patter Song: Huhh. Utena: But you probably shouldn't talk about this to anyone else. If a new transfer student started talking about stuff like that,  What do you mean, "misunderstand," Utena? We're a very dangerous girl, thank you very much. Patter Song: (I guess so. I'll be careful.) Soundtrack: Campus Lyrical https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270vPdVVJ74  I would say "best character alert," but...ah, close enough. "Best character alert." Patter Song: (Huh? Who's that?)  Anthy's actually socializing! Way to go, Anthy! Utena: Hey, Wakaba! Over here, over here!!  Wakaba joins the table. What is that in her tea on the upper left? Utena: That's why I said you should just give up! Wakaba: But they had kombucha for dessert! Utena: Is it good? Wakaba: Totally! That's why the line was so long! Utena: Huh. Is...is that kombucha in her tea? Also, Wakaba is pretty much the target demographic for kombucha personified.  Wakaba: I'm in the same class as you, and I'm Utena's girlfriend. Nice to meet you. Patter Song: (Wakaba Shinohara...Compared to Utena and Anthy, she seems really normal. I'm kind of relieved...) She'll be normal unless you express interest in Saionji or Utena, at least...watch out if you do those, though. Patter Song: Nice to meet you too! I still don't know much about the school, so please teach me, OK? Wakaba: Got it! From the ways of love, to campus rumors, to the trendy local shops, just leave it to me, Shinohara Wakaba-sama! OK, so I'm usually unflipping the names to avoid confusion, but this one only makes sense surname first. -Sama is the honorific you would use to refer to someone of a significantly higher social rank...for Wakaba to refer to herself that way would imply a great deal of egotism, except that she's clearly making a joke. Patter Song: Thanks! If I have any problems, I'll be sure to consult with you.  Um...if Protagonist Us is looking for romantic advice, she should do it sooner rather than later.  Save point. Nothing much to say here, especially since we are using save states.  That said, if you were playing this game on hardware, this would be the first time you could save.You know what time it is, right?  Character Profile of Wakaba Shinohara   No matter the version of Utena, some things remain the same.  Wakaba is always a joy and a vibrant addition to whatever scene she's in.  And her flirtations with Utena are always just that, flirtations. Wakaba seems to reference Japan's old Class S stereotype, as opposed to characters like Jury or even Utena and Anthy who might be more seriously into a same-sex relationship. Wakaba is interested in Utena, but is far more sexually attracted to her handsome upperclassman, Saionji. (An unhealthy crush, but who are we to judge?) Wakaba's interest in Utena seems almost like that of a mentee to her beloved mentor: Utena is a role model and a shining inspiration for how to live one's life with purpose, strength, style, and nobility, and Wakaba's here to take notes and hold her heroine to task when Utena fails to live up to her own standards. Wakaba does, however, know that she's a secondary character in Utena's story, and hates it. Wakaba is in a setting where everything seems to happen to other people and for other people, and, as the series says, people like her only get a brief opportunity to shine. Episode 20, Wakaba Flourishing, is one of my favorites in the series, just an aside. Wakaba is, like most female characters who aren't Utena, gaga over Saionji, but also resents Anthy for being the object of Saionji's affections and is only cordial with Anthy because Utena wants to make her that way. Wakaba is feisty and will not stay quiet if she thinks justice is not being served. She is not a romantic target in this game, for reasons that elude me. She doesn't seem to have a canon birthday or Zodiac sign, but her blood type is apparently O. End Character Profile Soundtrack Morning Lyricalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn11eyxGY1k  Class Rep: Stand! Bow! Wakaba: All right, we're done! Utena: Patter Song, let's head home. Utena Tenjou knows my name   The hell do you mean, "and Anthy?" Anthy deserves her own exclamation point. Utena: Come to think of it, you still don't know what dorm you're in, right? Patter Song: Right. I'm going to go meet with the Chairman now and find out. Utena didn't get to meet the Chairman on her first day. Protagonist Us is special. Utena: Yeah? I guess we can't walk back together, then. Patter Song: Aww...can't I just skip going to the Chairman's office and go back with you? Utena: But then you wouldn't know what dorm you're in. We can start walking home together starting tomorrow, but today you're on your own. Patter Song: ...Yeah, I guess so. Hey, where do you guys live, Utena? Utena: Me and Himemiya are in the East Dorm. There's only us and one more person, so come hang out anytime. In any environment, Ohtori's policy of giving an entire building to a handful of kids would be ludicrous. In land-starved Japan? Yikes. Patter Song: Thanks! I guess I'm off to the Chairman's Office, then. Soundtrack: A Distillation Of Timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTgFGlsgk2s  Are you sure this is a Chairman's office and not a Planetarium?  Patter Song: (Wow, what a cool guy! When I heard "Chairman," I was expecting some preachy old guy.)  Young Lady, didn't your mother warn you about handsome older men with power who...oh, wait, your mother married her high school fencing coach. Never mind, carry on. Akio: Your dorm is the East Hall, second floor, Room 22. Your luggage should have already arrived. Patter Song: (East Dorm? That's the same as Utena!)  We're moving into the dorm with only two (three?) other people in it! Akio's finally getting some use out of his land. Akio: Oh? You seem happy. Patter Song: Oh, uh...it's just that that's where a friend I met today is living.  There's that patented Akio gibbering nonsense that sounds profound and poetic. "An older brother is like the moon. You don't know what it is for, but sometimes you look up and it's there, comforting you."  Thank Dios for small favors, they never make us navigate Ohtori. This isn't Sakura Wars or something where you can select locations from a main map.  If you can't tell, we're in the head of the phallic tower.  Patter Song: (The chalk-white fencing hall. Just like my dad said.) The people in this universe are as into consistent epithets as Homer and his wine-dark sea. This hall will never be anything other than "chalk-white." Akio: And this is the East Dorm. If you go this way, it should only take you about five minutes. Patter Song: Alright, Thank you very much! Well, that does it for content for today, but stick around, because, well...it needs to happen. Character Profile for Akio Ohtori  Akio Ohtori claims to be many things. They're mostly lies, starting with his claim to be a 19-year-old college student in the manga.  Akio is a "mukoyoshi," a Japanese man who marries into a wealthy and powerful, but son-less, Japanese family so they have an heir to keep the family name going. This is why Akio's surname is Ohtori, like the school, and not Himemiya.  Akio is, in every version, utterly charming, handsome, and a total sex symbol. Why wouldn't he be? Akio Ohtori is the antagonist in every single version of Utena, unless you consider the antagonist of Utena to be societal control and patriarchy, in which case Akio, though a perpetrator and manifestation of those ideologies, is in some ways a victim of them himself. Akio is the Acting Chairman of Ohtori Academy and takes a special interest in Utena, his sister Anthy, and the dueling game in the school. There is nothing on the campus of Ohtori that Akio doesn't know about or have his fingers in (often literally). This realm of Ohtori is Akio's domain, and not just in the sense of a school headmaster. Akio is the living embodiment of the forces that constrict and attempt to control and mold young people into the same corrupt or broken archetypes the show critiques. That said, while Akio Ohtori is overtly sinister to varying degrees, he also consistently possesses the ability to be charming. He often gives profound-sounding advice and metaphors to nature and to astronomy. His passions are stargazing and classic automobiles. He has a...complex...relationship with his sister, Anthy Himemiya, which we will have to address much later in the LP (the degree to which we do depends on the route you all go down). Akio shares Anthy's Indian skin complexion and even has a bindi, which males most definitely do not actually wear. Ikuhara said that Akio reflects some aspects of his own personality, which is an amazing admission to make and shows just how much this show is exploring the toxic headspace created by gender roles and how even people very conscious of them struggle with how deeply internalized they are. Akio is highly dangerous in part because he is a shrewd judge of character and knows what people truly desire, not just what they claim to outsiders that they desire. Akio is never to be considered safe at any time. Some even say that he's...  But surely that's just hyperbole, right? His birthday is September 15th, making him, ironically enough, a Virgo, and his blood type is A, fitting his assertive, commanding role. End Character Profile Next time, we will wrap up some more introductions and reach the next vote! Until then, the Absolute Destiny Apocalypse! Patter Song fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 06:18
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Patter Song posted:
The other contender here was "if you had two duels, it'd be dual duels!" I think I made the right call.  quote:Wakaba is always a joy and a vibrant addition to whatever scene she's in. She's also the most fun character to translate, followed closely by Utena herself.
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Aug 30, 2018 06:51
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I knew there had to be a term for what Wakaba does to Utena. Happens a lot in anime. That joke should make you feel shamed.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:23
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You'd better be maxing out that dadjokeometer.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:24
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Are teenage girls even allowed to make dadjokes?! that one was sandals-with-socks level.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:36
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"Patter Song" posted:Episode 20, Wakaba Flourishing, is one of my favorites in the series, just an aside. Same. The first time I watched the show the Black Rose stuff seemed very boring and samey and just went over my head right up until this episode. I had to go back and rewatch a few episodes. I had completely mis-read Anthy up to that point. Thank you for playing this, I never knew it even existed!
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Aug 30, 2018 09:00
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Akio is one of my favourite characters in anything, which doesn't say much for me, I'm sure. But it's the nature of his type to be magnetic whether that's a good idea or not. I should actually play this. Utena's one of my favourite things in the world.
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Aug 30, 2018 09:50
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Personally, I think it makes sense that Wakaba doesn't have a route. Even if she was solely attracted to Utena, we could simply never overcome that. Honestly, I'd feel rather guilty about going after Utena if I knew there was a way to get her and Wakaba together. But that's just me.
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Aug 30, 2018 13:35
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Akio is a fascinating character and one of the few characters in RGU I absolutely hate. One of my favorite things is how in a lot of conversations I've seen people have about the anime, lots of people will take certain claims he's made at face value despite knowing he's the villain and that he lies about most anything, just because Anthy also backs up those claims a few times. I think it's interesting how tempting it is to accept the shared story presented by two extremely unreliable narrators because it fits a certain type of fairytale aesthetic and because it's all you have to go on, when if you read between the lines and accept that as a falsified version of events things get much darker.
PetraCore fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 16:23
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PetraCore posted:Akio is a fascinating character and one of the few characters in RGU I absolutely hate. One of my favorite things is how in a lot of conversations I've seen people have about the anime, lots of people will take certain claims he's made at face value despite knowing he's the villain and that he lies about most anything, just because Anthy also backs up those claims a few times. I think it's interesting how tempting it is to accept the shared story presented by two extremely unreliable narrators because it fits a certain type of fairytale aesthetic and because it's all you have to go on, when if you read between the lines and accept that as a falsified version of events things get much darker. ... I really, really want to write a big, long, spoiler-blocked analysis of Akio that actually includes end of series and end of manga spoilers, but I'd be breaking my own stupid thread rules.
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Aug 30, 2018 16:49
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It might be kinda cool to just have time for Utena analysis after the LP itself finishes up or something. I love talking about Utena; it's such a great show.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:18
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Leraika posted:It might be kinda cool to just have time for Utena analysis after the LP itself finishes up or something.
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Aug 30, 2018 17:56
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Leraika posted:It might be kinda cool to just have time for Utena analysis after the LP itself finishes up or something.
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Aug 30, 2018 19:05
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I love all of these "I never knew this game existed" posts. It's a real shame that it didn't released outside of Japan, but most of the Saturn's library wasn't, including most of the interesting games. Also, Utena didn't air until years later in the West and was the province of overpaying for VHSes for years. This game would be rated M for sure (we ain't seen nothing yet in this LP), especially in 1998. It would've also made SEGA a lightning rod for the Jack Thompson types due to its rejection of heteronormative dating conventions, too. Releasing it in the West would've been impossible as well as unprofitable.
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Aug 30, 2018 20:17
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Patter Song posted:I love all of these "I never knew this game existed" posts. It's a real shame that it didn't released outside of Japan, but most of the Saturn's library wasn't, including most of the interesting games. Also, Utena didn't air until years later in the West and was the province of overpaying for VHSes for years. So you're saying the game was revolutionary for its time?
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Aug 30, 2018 21:54
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So to woe the best romance option we would have to antagonize the best side character? Aw.Kayten posted:So you're saying the game was revolutionary for its time? 
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Aug 30, 2018 22:16
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Kayten posted:So you're saying the game was revolutionary for its time? As much as this is a joke, it's also true. How many dating sims are you aware of that are more than, say, 3-5 years old with both male and female routes, and not done as a joke "bad ending" or something?
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Aug 30, 2018 22:58
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It was an innocent time before game developers had truly began to hammer the profitability of anime tiddy.
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Aug 30, 2018 23:11
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Azza Bamboo posted:It was an innocent time before game developers had truly began to hammer the profitability of anime tiddy. ...really? Remember the show this is. Chiho Saito would be sad to hear that you're thinking of eye-candy in relation to Utena and are jumping to breasts rather than her beloved Touga-sama . Touga is 100% intended to be the "sexy" option here, not any of the ladies.
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Aug 30, 2018 23:28
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...i still can't believe that's what we considered sexy in the 90's.
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Aug 30, 2018 23:54
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Chalk me down as another person decided to watch all of Utena due to this thread. It holds up really drat well! I also had a mild fever while doing so, which I think is the perfect state of mind to appreciate the show. 
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Aug 31, 2018 00:11
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Mathwyn posted:Chalk me down as another person decided to watch all of Utena due to this thread. It holds up really drat well! Once you're clear of fever I'll remind you that the cowbell episode did in fact happen, as did Nanami's egg arc. Camel Pimp posted:...i still can't believe that's what we considered sexy in the 90's. My vote goes for still considering it sexy now.
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Aug 31, 2018 00:22
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Patter Song posted:you're thinking of eye-candy in relation to Utena Just the opposite. What I was trying to say is that the intent of this dating sim is probably a lot less skeevy than what you'd get today. It was a more innocent time where people hadn't quite brought the image of a sexualised anime girl into the mainstream. At least that's the impression I get of the current market when browsing Steam. I'm looking to view Utena as not just ahead of its time, but perhaps as ahead of today's market. I'm not presenting this as a thoroughly thought out academic argument. It was all just for a cheap quip. So to put it in other words: "lol the VNs I come across today suck compared to this."
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Aug 31, 2018 00:33
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Azza Bamboo posted:Just the opposite. What I was trying to say is that the intent of this dating sim is probably a lot less skeevy than what you'd get today. Fair, my point was more that this game would be more instantly comparable to an otome dating sim today (girl protagonist has her pick of a slew of hot guys), except it's not really that either because you can still totally get with Utena or other girls if you want to. Like, the target audience of this game is clearly at least supposed to be girls. EDIT: That's another interesting thing about this game, actually. It goes against stereotypical video game marketing demographics from 1998 by targeting an older female audience. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 00:50
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That's a good point. Utena is so action packed I forget that it's technically shoujo.
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Aug 31, 2018 00:56
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Azza Bamboo posted:Once you're clear of fever I'll remind you that the cowbell episode did in fact happen, as did Nanami's egg arc. Can't believe anthy hid chu-chu in an egg to gently caress with Nanami.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:02
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Every time I see Utena, my mind instantly goes to Zettai unmei mokushiroku!RickVoid posted:Isn't it amazing how a single event can cause you to instantly lose respect for two different people, for entirely different reasons? Yeah, this is pretty much the same way I felt the moment I started watching this show. Patter Song posted:There is nothing on the campus of Ohtori that Akio doesn't know about or have his fingers in (often literally).
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 05:11
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Patter Song posted:Some even say that he's... I prefer to think of him as a poor man's version of this gentleman: 
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Aug 31, 2018 05:59
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You know what would really be awful? If the update I'm writing (ETA two hours) were posted at the bottom of a page. That'd really be unfortunate, wouldn't it? It'd be hard to find.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:52
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