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Citroëns are so... weird, I love them. My dad had a couple of DS's when I was really little, and later got a CX wagon. Might have had a CX fastback as well? I don't think I'll ever be brave enough to get one myself, though. You can call the Germans many things (and I have, repeatedly, over the past couple of days; most of them do not bear repeating), but their solutions are usually not weird.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:49
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absurdly and unnecessarily over complicated springs to mind
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Jun 25, 2019 00:37
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Loving the early XM. And on what I call the 'Death Star' wheel trims as well. I do miss Citroen's dedication to bizarre (but very aerodynamic) wheel centres - the CX had some strange ones, and those BX ones which were two off-centre semi-circles. Awesome stuff.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:38
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Grakkus posted:Since my last post, I've been slowly working at improving the GTi. I've fixed some electrical stuff, done some (very) minor bodywork, done a DIY refurb of the speedlines, and continued to try to dial in the performance. I'll be going into more detail about all that once I've uploaded the pictures and have a bit of breathing room to sit down and type it all up. I know the grass is always greener and we did get some cool cars in the US that weren't available elsewhere, but holy poo poo, I want some easy access citroens and pukegoats. I love those cars. Also, I thought you had really strict annual inspections, how in the world did he drive a car with 20 year old tires?
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Jun 25, 2019 10:40
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Pursesnatcher posted:Citroëns are so... weird, I love them. My dad had a couple of DS's when I was really little, and later got a CX wagon. Might have had a CX fastback as well? I don't think I'll ever be brave enough to get one myself, though. You can call the Germans many things (and I have, repeatedly, over the past couple of days; most of them do not bear repeating), but their solutions are usually not weird. Says the man sourcing a 0.2mm narrower fan clutch or whatever because AMG! BalloonFish posted:Loving the early XM. And on what I call the 'Death Star' wheel trims as well. I do miss Citroen's dedication to bizarre (but very aerodynamic) wheel centres - the CX had some strange ones, and those BX ones which were two off-centre semi-circles. Awesome stuff. Yeah, they have a lot of great wheel designs. The BX Speedlines are honestly one of my favourites (I'm not biased or anything), the way the light and dark interacts on them is beautiful, here's a picture of one of the ones I refurbed:  I'm also a huge fan of CX Turbo wheels, that T cut in the design is just   chrisgt posted:I know the grass is always greener and we did get some cool cars in the US that weren't available elsewhere, but holy poo poo, I want some easy access citroens and pukegoats. I love those cars. I'll send you a Citroen, you send me a Buick Grand National. Deal? The tyre thing is because of a weird loophole. Tyres need to have enough tread and can't be dryrotted, but their age isn't actually taken into account at all. These ones are shockingly fine outside of being old enough to drink, though I still don't plan on keeping them.
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Jun 25, 2019 13:05
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That rim design is glorious. Every drat time I read this thread I'm looking at used Citroen's a minute later.
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Jun 25, 2019 14:24
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chrisgt posted:I know the grass is always greener and we did get some cool cars in the US that weren't available elsewhere, but holy poo poo, I want some easy access citroens and pukegoats. I love those cars. I'm holidaying in Greece at the moment and there are so many amazing tiny Euro hatchbacks here. I wanna drive 'em all!
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Jun 25, 2019 15:14
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MrOnBicycle posted:That rim design is glorious. Every drat time I read this thread I'm looking at used Citroen's a minute later. Do the needful 
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Jun 25, 2019 22:05
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Mr Bicycle is closer to this.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:38
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I wasn't sold until I saw the original seats
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Jun 26, 2019 12:41
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An XM would be cool. Thankfully this is not nearby. Nidhg00670000 posted:Mr Bicycle is closer to this. Hah. I've actually been to that dealer. Got pretty cool stuff, but much of it is really rusty. Decent prices though, and once in a while something pretty amazing shows up.
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Jun 26, 2019 12:44
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Hey look what popped up https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/jenkintown-1989-citroen-bx-16v/6912227281.html 
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Jun 26, 2019 18:02
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"cryptocurrency ok"
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Jun 27, 2019 03:00
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"I hope this tickles your buying bone" I've never heard it called that before..
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Jun 27, 2019 07:24
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drat, another cool Citroen is the Xantia Activa with the active self leveling suspension (and a V6!). I wonder if it's as amazing to drive as people say. VVVV: Yeah 17k is too much to try a suspension. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 13:54
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Apart from the really freaky sensation (and fantastic corner speeds you can carry) that comes from the car staying perfectly level when cornering hard, it's a Xantia. So a 406 with makeup. EDIT: 17k isn't exactly a smoking deal, but they are really rare these days so...
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Jun 28, 2019 16:30
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MrOnBicycle posted:drat, another cool Citroen is the Xantia Activa with the active self leveling suspension (and a V6!). I wonder if it's as amazing to drive as people say. Nidhg00670000 posted:Apart from the really freaky sensation (and fantastic corner speeds you can carry) that comes from the car staying perfectly level when cornering hard, it's a Xantia. So a 406 with makeup. Nidhg has it right. My friend has one (a UK-spec one, so a 2.0T rather than a V6) and while the suspension is an amazing technical achievement and you can corner it at ridiculous speeds (80mph on corners that my normal Xantia 1.9TD on standard hydropneumatic would be taking at 45mph and starting to feel a bit pressured), that is all it does. It's not a sports saloon. It's a Xantia with clever suspension. It has - somehow - even less steering feel than a normal Xantia, which combined with the suspension removing all body roll and thus any 'seat of the pants' feel of how much grip or force is acting on the car means that driving an Activa hard and fast is entirely a trust exercise. And the Activa system is so capable that it will keep bludgeoning the laws of physics into submission, right up to the point where it can't do that any more. Then suddenly you find yourself in a car with no grip doing 80+mph in the middle of a corner. They are extremely 'binary' cars - either they go round the corner fast, perfectly flat and without any drama or they will go round it backwards in a cloud of tyre smoke before ending up in a ditch. You can't tweak your line with the throttle, you can't let the car settle into a corner (because it doesn't settle, it actively resists cornering forces), you can't run wide or scrub off speed. Otherwise it has a mediocre engine, although the V6 may feel more special than a grumbly low-pressure turbo 4-pot tuned more for mid-range shove, a mediocre gearchange, the usual 'all or nothing' hydraulic Citroen brakes and the aforementioned zero steering feel. It doesn't ride as well as a plain Xantia, although the ride is still good by normal car standards and by the standards of anything else with anything like the same cornering performance the ride is pillowy-soft. But I don't see what sense it makes as a package. Citroen in the UK didn't really know how to market the Activa, possibly because without the V6 it lacked any real performance cred, so they pitched it mostly as a safety system. But it's also an expensive flagship model with the most powerful engine, flared wheel arches, a body kit and a rear wing. But it's not sporty. Plus, they're all getting on for 25 years old now, so the PSA-grade electronics that run the system all start crapping out. And it's got ten suspension spheres - one per wheel, an accumulator, a rear 'anti-sink' sphere, one Hydractive sphere at each end and one Activa sphere at each end!
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Jun 29, 2019 22:09
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That's exactly the description I was looking for. Thanks.  I found some videos on YouTube of some french dude driving on rural/mountain roads and it looks exactly like you describe. Defies the laws of physics and is scary as hell to watch because you know that as soon as the tires run out of grip, he's properly hosed. Still, amazing to watch.
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Jun 30, 2019 10:08
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MrOnBicycle posted:That's exactly the description I was looking for. Thanks. Post iiiiit!
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Jun 30, 2019 17:11
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meltie posted:Post iiiiit! 1/3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0eJY_1470&t=3s 2/3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHDhMZad6_Q&t=62s Stuck behind a lorry for the first minute. Plenty of tight corners and blind overtakes and 0 body roll. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 30, 2019 |
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Jun 30, 2019 17:31
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MrOnBicycle posted:1/3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0eJY_1470&t=3s That all seems very representative of what a hard-driven Activa can do. The V6 certainly makes a nice noise! I've been reading up and I didn't realise that the French (and other LHD Europe markets?) didn't just get a V6 Activa. You could have it with the 2.0T as well, or a 1.9TD and later 2.0HDi (as a TD owner I can't see much point in a diesel Activa, but it's probably not much flatter than the 2.0T, especially with a bit of tweaking to the injector pump). Most importantly, Europe got Activa Breaks/estates, the lucky bastards. An Activa V6 Break would be right on my wishlist! Also Grakkus, I forgot to ask - does your XM have the second rear screen inside the proper screen? So when you lift the rear hatch there's a whole extra bit of glass just to stop wind and cold getting to the cabin? I always thought that was such a typically Citroen design touch?
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Jun 30, 2019 18:04
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When it tweaked sideways on the verge at 40s in 😳 Seriously, the whole video. Eesh. Full chat!
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Jun 30, 2019 18:22
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It's been a while again, it's been an incredibly busy summer and I can never seem to find the time to post  This will be a wheel-themed update.Re: the Activa, I reckon it's a pretty great car with the V6 and one day I'd like to own one. I had the pleasure of test driving one for a couple of hours last year and they drive like nothing else, while still being comfortable and practical. A bit like a way more complicated BX, really. They also have this quirk where they'll wiggle from side to side sometimes when you come to a stop at a traffic light which I found incredibly endearing Something to do with the computer for the Activa rams getting confused by divide-by-zero errors when the car is perfectly level, as it was explained to me. They're also Bertone's last great design in my opinion: Not a traditional sports saloon, to be sure, but since when has Citroen made anything conventional? since the early 00s BalloonFish posted:Also Grakkus, I forgot to ask - does your XM have the second rear screen inside the proper screen? So when you lift the rear hatch there's a whole extra bit of glass just to stop wind and cold getting to the cabin? I always thought that was such a typically Citroen design touch? Yup, it has the extra screen It works pretty well, I did my first road trip in it, about 600km in total, and it did a good job of keeping the ladies cool inside while we were lugging baggage into the boot. I've forgotten to take more detailed pictures of it, of course, but I'll be back early next week and will take some then. I did however get some brand new Dunlops on the Zenders and put them on the car: Yeah, they have Volvo centre caps, the PO was using them on his Volvo. I've ordered some generic Citroen caps while I try to track down a set of original XM ones (which the PO of course lost).  And on the car. A little blingy for some, perhaps, but they work for me. I'd also been planning to refurb the Speedlines on the BX, but since my only experience in that field was the one wheel trim I repainted for the St Tropez, I decided to get a bit of practice and at the same time tackle a pet peeve of mine on the Polo. You see, despite having plenty of storage space, there's only one set of wheels for the Polo, plus 2 spares, so twice a year I've been paying to have the winter and summer tyres swapped on the car, when buying two new wheels would cost about £25. So, I finally ordered two more wheels for it and set to sorting out the two spares that would become the summer set.  This is how they started out,  and this is what I ended up with. I picked Fiat 750F/Marron Vulcanico as its one of my favourite wheel colours, especially on red cars.  The tyre is a crappy old one that will be thrown away, so ignore that. Looks pretty good otherwise, though it does accentuate the shabbiness of the rest of the car Emboldened by this success, I turned to the Speedlines. I had bought them knowing that they weren't in particularly great shape, but when they arrived at my door I was pretty shocked to see the amount of kerb damage on the rims. It was as if the guy parked by touch using his wheels, there were massive, deep scrapes on pretty much 60-80% of the rim on each wheel. I completely underestimated how much work it would be to sand out the damage (by hand, because apparently my time is worthless to me) and it ended up taking me about a weeks worth of evenings. If any of you decide to do this, heed my advice and definitely use a mechanical sanding device, it will make the job infinitely easier and faster. After the grueling sanding process, the rest was much easier, though just as time consuming due to each coat needing to dry for several hours. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the before pictures, but here are some from during the process:      I ended up leaving a couple of the deepest scratches because I just couldn't take any more sanding, plus I figured they would probably get dinged up on the upcoming rally anyway. But they still look pretty good IMO, miles better than before. And on the car:    COMING SOON: Major red Fulvia bodywork updates! White fulvia updates! Road trip to Denmark in the GTi, complete with several 'fun' surprises!
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Aug 16, 2019 14:48
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Those look great! Sanding is always the worst when refinishing, but pretty satisfying after all the work. I would have taken off the wheel weights beforehand and asked them to mount them on the inside of the wheel next time.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:21
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Hot drat that is some nice wheel work! Before/after on the Polo is amazing, and the end result on the Speedline is perfect. What are the different layers you're putting on those?
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Aug 16, 2019 17:32
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Thanks! I'll definitely have the wheel weights put on the inside next time. I'm still thinking about having them professionally redone in the 16v style (gunmetal centres with polished rims) sometime in the future, if I do then I'll get the weights put inside. I used quite thick layers of spray-on filler, sanding after each layer, most of the wheels took two layers but one took three. After that I put on two layers of primer, three basecoats and three clearcoats. I used the colour of the car (citroen gris perle) as the basecoat as it's slightly more brown than "regular" wheel silver and having seen silver BXes with the regular silver wheels, the slightly different shade drives me crazy
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Aug 17, 2019 16:01
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drat that's great looking. That matte finish really fits the design.
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Aug 22, 2019 17:37
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Updates on the other stuff will have to wait because I'm on a 4,000km rally through the Balkans! In the BX I just fixed myself! What's the worst that can happen?  
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Aug 23, 2019 09:49
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loving awesome.
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Aug 23, 2019 20:55
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That looks so cool. So does the castle
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Aug 28, 2019 07:17
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It's been a hot minute and lots has happened! I successfully drove 9,000km around southeastern Europe in the BX GTi, saw some incredible stuff, drove through some amazing scenery, traversed a minefield to see an abandoned underground military base, and managed to set my brakes on fire on the Grossglockner pass. My TT was totaled in broad daylight by a guy making eye contact with me and then T-boning me in an intersection. The white Fulvia is up for sale, and the red one has had it's bodywork completed and is waiting for me to do the engine. Posts with more details about all this stuff are coming (this time for real!). For now though, I'm back in the UK and I've just finished doing the last things the white BX needs. I've driven it the first fifty miles it's seen in a decade, and I'm taking it to Leicester this weekend to visit friends. Driving something this simple is excellent, it has no power steering, manual everything, even the radio has a tuner dial. The only annoying thing is that the awful crud it was encrusted in when I found it has somehow ingrained itself into the paint on the roof and no amount of washing or hand polishing will remove it. I guess I'm going to have to machine polish it hard.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:33
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Well, I guess I lied about the posting Here's some things that happened recently: Grakkus posted:Oh God I suspected I might have a problem before, but now I know for sure.. Grakkus posted:Made it back home in the 16v without it blowing up or me killing myself from some combination of lack of sleep, summer tyres in negative temps and boredom. Originally my plan was to take the scenic route, but due to the unknown condition of the mechanicals I opted to just shoot straight for home. Since I'm a cheap bastard I opted to just sleep in the car, but that ended up not being a great idea due to the cold. I ended up driving till I was tired, sleeping a couple of hours until the cold woke me up, driving an hour or two and then sleeping until the cold woke me again. In some ways that system was actually better, as it gained me another 300km or so during the night. Also, there's nothing better for devouring miles than a hydropneumatic Citroen, the ride quality and seats are so drat good... Really put it to the test when I hit a stretch of the old Nazi highway near Cottbus. Grakkus posted:Changed the oil and filter on my new to me BX. Drained the old oil before realising two things: One, it's impossible to reach from above due to the intake and almost inaccessible from below due to the placement of the AC compressor. The remaining gap is barely wide enough to get one hand in.
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Jan 31, 2020 13:46
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Unfortunately, I need some money and space and so the BX GTi is for sale. It's been a rock solid, dependable and fun car but it's also by far the nicest one I own and therefore the most sellable, so it's the one that's going to go. If any of you are interested, let me know. I'd like to tell the tale of my time with it on the rally, but I figured I'd continue the story where I left off, which was just before it's pre-rally test run to Denmark. I had just finished refurbishing the wheels, replacing wheel bearings and getting the HVAC working, so I decided that the best test of it's capabilities would be an 11 hour drive to Copenhagen! Which actually went swimmingly well:  (it's a ferry pun! )Right up until the exhaust, which had been getting progressively louder over the journey, up and disintegrated about half an hour away from my destination and the back box fell off on the motorway offramp. Luckily Denmark is a pretty empty place and I managed to retrieve it in case it was needed as a template for a new one. However, some maniac still produces BX exhausts so I went ahead and ordered a full catback set from them:  No idea how it got through inspection like this...  If you look closely, you can see the issue! The rest wasn't a whole lot better.    Since I had the car up in the air, I went ahead and wire wheeled all the rusty bits and gave them a coat of underseal. Forgot to get a picture of the finished product, but feel free to extrapolate from this:  (no idea why I took this picture at all) Then I figured I'd put a new set of brake discs and pads on. The brakes were fine, more than strong enough to throw unsuspecting occupants through the windscreen, but they had an odd mushy feel that wasn't like the other Citroens I'd experienced, so I figured it'd probably be a good idea. I was right:  The pads had the texture and strength of rotted wood. They crumbled as I levered them out of the calipers. No idea how they get to be like that, but they definitely would have killed me on the rally. Good to go:  There was one more, better-hidden casualty of the drive to Copenhagen:     I had no idea how to fit a new CV boot, but luckily a friend of the friend I was keeping the car with had the tools and the knowhow:    At this point, the only things original to the car were the paintwork, interior and gearbox, everything else had been overhauled, rebuilt or replaced. Ideal to start a rally, really! So I set off towards the start line! 
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Feb 4, 2020 23:03
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You say the paint on the 16v is crap, but on the pictures it looks almost pristine! I found the BX GTi in an article from 1987 by the way (was in a magazine my wife got me because it covers what I can only assume is the prototype of my G-wagon); it's comparing the Audi 80, Alfa 75, BMW 318i and Sierra 2.0 iS to it. I can try to do a summary of it here if you want?
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Mar 3, 2020 20:10
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Grakkus posted:Unfortunately, I need some money and space and so the BX GTi is for sale. It's been a rock solid, dependable and fun car but it's also by far the nicest one I own and therefore the most sellable, so it's the one that's going to go. If any of you are interested, let me know. I'd like to tell the tale of my time with it on the rally, but I figured I'd continue the story where I left off, which was just before it's pre-rally test run to Denmark.
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Mar 3, 2020 23:09
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You Am I posted:Hmm, I am wondering if that is the car Hubnut is hinting he is buying when he gets back from Australia Hah, this car has too many horses and too few problems for Hubnut  Pursesnatcher posted:You say the paint on the 16v is crap, but on the pictures it looks almost pristine! I found the BX GTi in an article from 1987 by the way (was in a magazine my wife got me because it covers what I can only assume is the prototype of my G-wagon); it's comparing the Audi 80, Alfa 75, BMW 318i and Sierra 2.0 iS to it. I can try to do a summary of it here if you want? Thanks, that would be really interesting! As for the paint, they're just flattering photos, genuinely nearly every panel needs some work, there are a couple of big scratches and chips everywhere, plus damage from either hail or being parked under a chestnut tree all over but particularly the roof, which also has awful cloudy paint. Here's some of the worst of it:      I did however make some improvements to the paint today. I've had a machine polisher for a while now but haven't ever used one before, but I unexpectedly had the day off today and it was sunny, and with the paint on this car being so bad that I figured I might as give it a shot. It took me a good few hours to clay the whole thing, and by the time I was done I only had time to do the roof with meguiars ultimate compound, but I'm pretty happy with the results!  Before  During  After (cheating slightly as it's getting dark) Going to do the rest of the car tomorrow, and then go over it again with a finishing pad and polish. Excited to see how it's going to look!
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Mar 12, 2020 01:14
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gently caress POs, gently caress the 16v engine, gently caress my luck and quadruple gently caress trying to scrape paper gaskets off in tiny spaces. That is all.   For those of you who missed it in the chat thread: 
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Mar 20, 2020 16:26
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Grakkus posted:Hah, this car has too many horses and too few problems for Hubnut
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Mar 22, 2020 22:51
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Ouch. I can agree with regards to PO's, by the way. Alright, let's skip back to the year of our Lord 1987, to the illustrious date of April 11th. In West Germany, the humble sum of five Deutsche Mark would get you a copy of auto motor und sport. This particular issue, a whooping 304 pages including the cover, talks about the "Ami come back" and the new Chrysler convertibles, a review of a twin turbo Corvette pictured on the cover, and some other goodies. It also comes with a 20 page special on offroading – specifically, the weird and unheard of Mercedes 500 GE, the Turbo-Pajero, a test of the Lamborghini LM, and both release dates and prices of all interesting upcoming models. So that's why my wonderful wife scored it for me. But. It's also asking a single question on the cover, in even bigger type than the offroad section. Dynamisch genug? So what we've got is a big old story, complete with a few color photographs, pitting the Audi 80 1.8 against the Alfa Romeo 75 1.8, the BMW 318i, the Ford Sierra 2.0 iS – and of course, most relevant to Grakkus' adventures, the Citroen BX GTi. German is, surprisingly, a very playful language, but I'm not nearly fluent enough to even try getting the nuances across – so just assume that anything that looks weird in the following text is really a very eloquent play on words. I had to resort to Google Translate on a lot of points, and sometimes even that made no sense, but here you go: --- The apparently fast ones Audi 80 1.8 E compared with Alfa 75 1.8, BMW 318i, Citroen BX 19 GTi and Ford Sierra 2.0i S. How sporty is the middle class? When the brave family father feels like he is going through hard times, with regards to car purchases, he inevitably starts thinking of the dream cars of his youth. A wife and children means he must prioritize seating capacity over engine capacity, so a Porsche 911 or a small open-top two-seater must remain wishful thinking. But he still has options. The car industry is pushing out an ever-increasing number of sedans with claims of sportiness. Citroen, otherwise known for building comfortable sedans, has recently launched the BX GTi, and Ford has something of a successor for the Capri in the Sierra 2.0i S. Alfa Romeo, Audi and BMW has long since looked to catering to customers with an eye for sportiness. By comparing their bodies, engines and suspensions, we should be able to clarify if there really are dynamic qualities behind their sporty exteriors. 1: Body From nature's side, family sedans are not blessed with sporty characteristics, and they do become sporty simply by installing spoilers, racing stripes or wide tires. Citroen and Ford, it seems, are of a different opinion. The Citroen BX GTi seems especially fake, as if it wants its rear-mounted wing to show right from the start who is the boss on the speedway. And in lieu of actual sporty features on the newly refreshed Sierra, Ford stuck a thick rubber lip on its back, and decided to ditch the rear doors to give a coupé-like air to the family car. Even Audi and BMW could not completely abstain from playing dress-up with their models. The Audi 80 has received a small rear spoiler, and BMW delivered the 318i test model in so-called Shadow-Design – chrome parts and bodywork extensions are panted a matte black. Only Alfa Romeo seems able to do without pseudo-sporty features. While this gives Alfa Romeo two bonus points for good taste, the Italian does not fare well if we examine the body objectively. There are many reasons for this: limited space, uncomfortable seats, long stalks for the seat belt anchors, impractical door handles, poor rearwards visibility, loud wind noise, and a windscreen that is prone to get extremely dirty during rainy weather. Not so with the Ford Sierra: It has ample interior space, comfortable seats, and an easily accessible luggage compartment that can be expanded by folding the rear seats. This is also a feature with the Citroen BX, which thanks to the hydro-pneumatic suspension will retain the same ground clearance even when carrying heavy loads. Less appealing is the high sitting position, the busy instruments, and a seat belt system which has room for improvement. In the Audi 80, as in the BMW 318i and the Ford Sierra, the seat belt height can be adjusted, and the Ingolstadt sedan offers the most comfortable seats. Although sloping windscreen means it feels less spacious than the BMW 3-series, it does offer exemplary cockpit ergonomics. In addition to feeling cramped, the aerodynamic shape gives the Audi 80 several functional disadvantages: impractical folding door handles, a windscreen prone to get dirty, and it becomes very hot inside when the sun is shining. That the trunk is much too small for a family car also detracts from its practicality. With regards to build quality, the Audi and the BMW give the best impression. Both seem to be very well made to the smallest detail. The Ford, too, is made to a high level of quality, while the Citroen and especially the Alfa are sorely lacking. Lower prices and a wealth of extras being standard equipment are not able to make up for these shortcomings, since the depreciation of both the foreign models is higher than with the three German competitors. When we look back at these models to consider their interior space, functionality, finish and equipment levels, we end up with the following ranking: 1. Ford Sierra 2.0i S 2. BMW 318i 3. Audi 80 1.8 E 4. Citroen BX 19 GTi 5. Alfa 75 1.8 2: The Engines: Power Without Passion With top speeds ranging from 186 km/h (BMW 318i) and 202 km/h (Citroen BX GTi), all the competitors are sufficiently fast, but they do not give off a particularly dynamic impression. Only the Citroen, being the most powerful with its 125 PS (90 kW) strong 1,9 liter injection engine, delivers convincing performance. The double cam, four-cylinder in the Alfa 75 should at least be able to entice Alfa-lovers – but the Audi, BMW and Ford are all completely lacking sportiness. Take for instance the 318i: BMW, synonymous with sportiness in this class, is just a shadow of itself without the wonderful six-cylinder engine. The appeal of small BMW's is now completely dependent on "six-appeal". The 1.8-liter four-cylinder does have sufficient torque, but is loud above 4000 rpm, is especially lacking in acceleration we have come to expect from the white-and-blue brand. At least the precise five-speed gearbox delivers some of the promised BMW-driving pleasure. Despite greater displacement and higher nominal output (115 PS/85 kW) the Ford Sierra seems even more sluggish than the BMW. The two-liter, four-cylinder from Ford is simply not a sports engine. Until the middle of the odometer it runs quietly and with little vibration, but when you crank it up it becomes rough and loud. Add to this a gearbox with lots of travel and unfortunate exchange ratios. The result: The highest fuel consumption (12.5 L/100 km) in the whole test-quintet. The Audi 80 1.8 E is also disappointing; it is hard to believe that this is the same engine (112 PS/82 kW) as in the VW Golf GTI. In the heavier, longer-geared Audi, this machine is nowhere near as effective. Gas mileage is better than expected, but strong vibrations when shifting – due to very weak engine mounts – is disturbing. It uses 9.1 liter/100 km. The Alfa engine – the only carburated power plant in this round – sucks up 11.8 L/100 km. The 1.8 liter engine is quick, but acoustically ever-present, and attached to a transmission which is both hard when in curves and shifts reluctantly. Ranked first and foremost in engine and power transmission, then, is clearly the Citroen. It responds excellently to the gas pedal and offers good driving performance with moderate fuel consumption. A single point of criticism: slightly noisy in the upper RPM range. 1. Citroen BX 19 GTi 2. Audi 80 1.8 E 3. BMW 318i 4. Alfa 75 1.8 5. Ford Sierra 2.0i S 3: The Suspensions: On Gentle Tours During auto motor und sport's test drives, with frequent changes of drivers, the car that turned out to be the most sporty was the one least expected. The best handling and agility were not found in the Alfa or the BMW, but rather in the Citroen. With its light and precise power steering and its largely neutral steering behavior, the BX seems immensely capable at cornering. In the streets it is calm even when they are in poor condition – except for on crossing grooves, where the hydropneumatics briefly stiffen, the suspension irons out all unevenness. The Citroen is the only model with power steering as standard equipment. Alfa Romeo decided not to offer it for the 75, while the three German models offers it separately as highly recommended extras. An Audi 80 without power steering offers a very tiresome drive, and both the Ford and BMW will make you pay for foregoing it with poor handling. Compared to the Citroen BX, the Audi 80 seems significantly less manageable, but it is convincing when running in a straight line and is well-mannered when cornering, with a load transfer reaction that means the driver has nothing to fear. The tight suspension and loud noises insignificantly reduces general comfort levels; far worse are the strong movements when starting and braking, as well as the vibrations in the cross axle and cross joints. This is not an issue with the tightly designed 3-series. The driving capabilities of the rear-wheel-drive BMW is more suited to sporty drivers than the front-wheel-drive Audi. When cornering when loaded, the BMW tends towards controllable understeer; in wet conditions, it is advisable to hold back. Whoever thinks they can do without the power steering will have to put up with high steering- and holding forces. Opposite from Citroen, Audi and BMW is the Ford Sierra, which is design much more for comfort. Compared with previously tested Sierras, this test vehicle was set up with a softer tuning than even the already comfortable enough predecessor – a development which cannot be considered an improvement. The underdampened Sierra tends to undulate on uneven surfaces, and when cornering at speed the rear end pushes strongly outwards, and it requires counter-steering to keep under control. During such maneuvers the light, but insensitive power steering is no great help. In the Alfa, on the other hand, you must always push hard: when steering, when shifting and even when braking. Alfa-driving means working hard, which has nothing to do with sportiness. The Alfa 75 does not run particularly well straight, is unnerving on uneven roads with strong vertical movement in the chassis, and the car twists noticeably in corners. That automotive progress has not been given much attention at Alfa Romeo lately is also shown by the Alfa 75 is the only participant in this test which does not come with ABS. The rank in suspension: 1. Citroen BX 19 GTi 2. Audi 80 1.8 E 3. BMW 318i 4. Ford Sierra 2.0i S 5. Alfa 75 1.8 Final verdict: 1: Citroen BX GTi The only car in this group wherein talk of sporty driving experience is done justice. The body build quality remains a weakness with the well-equipped BX. 2: Audi 80 1.8 E Not sporty, but a good car with safe driving characteristics, good fuel economy, and exemplary build quality. Less convincing: Impractical body shape and poorly equipped. 3: BMW 318i With a four-cylinder engine the 3-series is just half as good. None the less a real contender with attractive looks, good functionality and good build quality. Gets a new four-cylinder this fall. 4: Ford Sierra 2.0i S Seems implausible as a sports model with its engine and suspension setup. As a comfortable family sedan, however, it can be recommended. 5: Alfa 75 1.8 The Alfa lives on its good reputation and its wonderful double camshaft engine. In every other criteria it is clearly inferior to its competitors. --- Interestingly the Citroen, with its power steering as standard, cost only 25500 DM; exactly ten DM more than the Alfa – which couldn't get power steering at all. Next on the list is the BMW at 25900 DM, but power steering would run you another 3290 DM, compared to the Ford, listed at 26245 + 2500 DM, or the Audi at 26995 + 3075 DM. The Citroen was also alone in offering power windows all around, electrically adjustable mirrors on both sides, halogen fog lights and aluminum rims as standard equipment. Most of this was either unavailable or available at a more or less stiff cost on the other models. Pursesnatcher fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 15:43
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| # ? May 2, 2024 15:17 |
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"six-appeal" is
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Mar 26, 2020 19:00
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