I've Got A Secret Ballot: Is Private Voting Still a Public Good?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I've Got A Secret Ballot: Is Private Voting Still a Public Good?

Kerning Chameleon: Apr 8, 2015; by Cyrano4747

As the midterm elections in the United States enter the t-minus two month period, many people's thoughts thus turn to the many subtleties and complexities within our broken-rear end voting system. The concept of the secret ballot is well known to be a cornerstone of modern democracy (at least, it has been since 1888, which is when it started being implemented state-by-state in the US). It has been used to break the power of old political machines and get people hooked on labor unions and all that good stuff. I myself greatly enjoy walking around with my "I Voted" sticker on election day and then loudly boasting to people who ask who I voted for that I have the right to tell them to get stuffed because what I put on that ballot is my business alone.

But as much as I enjoy not telling people what I voted for even more than the act of voting itself, I find myself having to ask the devil's advocate: is it really still a good tradition to have around?

It's not easy finding criticism of the institution on the internet that isn't just from gibbering anarchist nutjobs in general, but I was able to find this Washington Post article written in the fallout of the 2016 election:

quote:

While apathy and ignorance still suffuse American political culture, voters today are highly literate and instilled with a basic civic education. Most of them are relatively more educated, better informed, have greater access to information and are more likely to resist social conformity � or refrain from insisting upon it � when voting. Intermarriage across ethnic lines, secularization and the overall weakening of family structures further undermined traditional adhesives that used to bind groups of urban voters like the Irish, Jews and Italians to local political machines. The erosion of these informal social networks and exhaustion of communal incentives to coordinate voting indirectly helped achieve, over time, much of what the secret ballot initially set out to do in the first place.

Voters today are also less vulnerable. The secret ballot was implemented at the height of the Gilded Age, when egregious class division plagued America: Lacking any basic legal safeguards for their employment � or a social safety net to assist them in case they lost it � millions of workers were beholden to their bosses and landlords� interests and lacked protection from reprisals if they voted against their wishes. Today�s workplace is far less hostile: Natural social mobility bred a broad and independent middle class. And progressive era reforms and the New Deal established pioneering labor laws that safeguarded workers rights, provided for Social Security and unemployment benefits and founded powerful regulatory institutions such as the National Labor Relations Board that afforded workers legal protections against unlawful termination � such as the kind they might have experienced for voting the �wrong� way. Urban political machines also lost sway as they lost power, thanks to civil service reform and the growth of the federal government, which shifted resources from the local to the national level.

Many of the ailments that the secret ballot was initially prescribed to treat have become almost moot. The use of bribery, for instance, to impact election outcomes seem futile given the utter failure of campaign finance reform and the Citizens United Supreme Court decision. Since the law already allows wealthy donors to funnel cash to super-PACs on a national level to persuade voters, there�s no need to spend the money or risk getting caught bribing voters one by one the way the old machines used to.

And the very anonymity provided by the secret ballot has become in many ways symbolic: Voting registration lists are, after all, a matter of public record. The increasing digitalization of such records and of political donations essentially means that in many states all you need are a few clicks to find out with which party someone is registered and to which candidate they donated money. Given the high correlation between ideology and party today, chances are pretty slim that a registered Democrat routinely votes Republican or vice versa. And in case there is any doubt left, a glimpse of social media profiles will surely give you away: If someone follows Rush Limbaugh or Rachel Maddow on Twitter and posts �like� for Fox News or MSNBC on Facebook, you could probably guess whom they voted for.

While the benefits of the secret ballot seem increasingly paltry, the new dangers that it poses may have begun to outweigh its merits. One of the most alarming things about the recent elections is the fact that a large number of voters apparently lied, not only to pollsters but to their families and friends, about supporting Trump. �I personally know many Republicans that won�t admit that they are voting for Trump. I don�t like admitting it myself,� one Virginian told Politico. Even the Trump campaign conceded that �undercover voters� ultimately helped deliver him the stunning upset. Given that some of what Trump said during or before the campaign was so racist, xenophobic and misogynist, naturally voters might not want to be associated with it. The secret ballot provided them the luxury of voting for him anyway.

Many voters made their choices with incorrect information, too. According to a shocking PPP study of the recent elections, 40 percent of Trump voters believe that he won the popular vote (he lost by more than 2 percentage points); 67 percent of Trump voters say that unemployment increased under the Obama administration (it fell sharply from 7.8 percent to 4.6 percent); 39 percent of Trump voters say that the stock market went down during the Obama administration (the Dow Jones industrial average spiked to unprecedented levels, nearing 20,000 for the first time in history). The anonymity provided by the Internet allowed people to spread and consume such lies; the anonymity provided in the ballot box allowed them to act on them. At no point were voters challenged on any moral, intellectual or even rational grounds to defend their choices.

In democratic Athens, the citizens raised their hands to vote; in Rome, they often voted orally; in colonial America, they adopted many of these same methods while also practicing more creative ones. (In Pennsylvania, for instance, they tossed beans into a hat.) Voicing your opinion publicly was, until the advent of the secret ballot, an integral and natural part of political life. Visibility led to accountability, and everyone knew where you stood on the issues, if only because you often had to actually stand behind them. If a candidate acts in indefensible ways � and one must recall that throughout the campaign even the GOP leadership often refused to defend Trump � it is the voters who ultimately bear responsibility for defending him. The secret ballot allowed many of them to get away with never having to do so.

Even today, there's still very much the "Undecided == Right Wing Voter" problem, where people refuse to accept the personal social consequences for their public choices, and yet continue to make them anyway. Even on this very forum, there's incredibly strong social pressure to admit how you voted when asked anyway, lest everyone suspect you of voting "wrong". An open vote combined with modern technology could, say, provide an online, easily searchable database of every single voter's ballot history, broken down into the questions they faced at the time, and the choices they made. This would have other benefits too, like cutting down on Mickey Mouse write-in protest voting. You'd be less likely to poo poo-vote when literally everyone and their mother can call you out for it.

That's the question I post to you fine folks: Is the secret ballot still, on the whole, a public good? Or perhaps it is time to finally hold voters just as transparently, very publicly accountable as we expect the people they vote for to be.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 16:42

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:10

RaySmuckles: Oct 14, 2009; Grimey Drawer

secret ballots are obviously superior, op

vulnerability to real political persecution far out-weights whatever shame-based political economy you're imagining

# ? Sep 10, 2018 17:05

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

You do know that this would cut both ways, right? I would very much prefer to not have a Nazi kick my teeth in because I voted for the wrong party or get fired by my boss because the candidate I voted for has union ties. I'm also not convinced that this would change a whole lot, over here in Germany there are already plenty of people who have absolutely no problem openly stating that they vote for the extreme right, why would they change their voting behaviour under open voting? If anything, this would drive people towards voting for the lowest common denominator where the least people will be angry with you, which in turn would likely be some sort of centre-right party that mainly wants to maintain the status quo.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 17:51

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

RaySmuckles posted:

vulnerability to real political persecution far out-weights whatever shame-based political economy you're imagining

This this this. Even with the NLRB, the risk of being fired for voting the "wrong" way can't be entirely eliminated. The risk of other forms of intimidation is also real.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 18:19

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Most people I know don't even put up yard signs and can be pretty cagey around elections because it can absolutely gently caress you over professionally if some future boss knows you're of the wrong politic.

# ? Sep 10, 2018 21:38

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Baronjutter posted:

Most people I know don't even put up yard signs and can be pretty cagey around elections because it can absolutely gently caress you over professionally if some future boss knows you're of the wrong politic.

yeah, I live and work in Texas and do some work for/in other southern states

I have a certain appreciation for secret ballots

# ? Sep 10, 2018 22:06

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

quote:

Voters today are also less vulnerable. The secret ballot was implemented at the height of the Gilded Age, when egregious class division plagued America: Lacking any basic legal safeguards for their employment � or a social safety net to assist them in case they lost it � millions of workers were beholden to their bosses and landlords� interests and lacked protection from reprisals if they voted against their wishes. Today�s workplace is far less hostile: Natural social mobility bred a broad and independent middle class. And progressive era reforms and the New Deal established pioneering labor laws that safeguarded workers rights, provided for Social Security and unemployment benefits and founded powerful regulatory institutions such as the National Labor Relations Board that afforded workers legal protections against unlawful termination � such as the kind they might have experienced for voting the �wrong� way.

lmao

# ? Sep 10, 2018 23:08

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Helsing posted:

lmao

I missed that because I just sorta skimmed the very bad essay. :stare:

# ? Sep 10, 2018 23:23

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

excited for my boss to threaten me with dismissal unless i vote the right way

thank you for this scorching hot take, op

# ? Sep 10, 2018 23:46

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Helsing posted:

lmao

# ? Sep 11, 2018 13:13

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

In a country where yer judges just made it legal for your bosses to deny you the right to collective action if you want to stay employed, do you really think them being able to fire you for not voting a certain way would be a good idea?

The vocal support of wilfully short sighted arrogant dumbfucks who can only picture a utopian world where they win, and refuse to even contemplate what their ideas mean if they lose, are the reason hillary lost, op, not the secret ballot.

# ? Sep 11, 2018 13:46

Iron Twinkie: Apr 20, 2001; BOOP

The only problem that getting rid of private ballots solves is that pesky "one man one vote" barrier for complete control by our oligarchy. Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post and richest human being in existence, would draw up official Amazon employee ballots that would be a condition of continued employment. You can repeat that for every other private employer that runs their business like a petty tyrant of a feudal kingdom and because unionization is at 6% that is effectively all of them. Without a private ballot, Trump would have been elected with 90% of the vote.

Edit.
Voting becomes a question of "Do I personally risk losing any chance of stable employment and being murdered by fascists going door to door with the list of people that didn't vote for Leader or will some coastal liberal dick heads have to put on an extra string of clutching pearls and their extra strength fainting clothes?"

Iron Twinkie fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Sep 11, 2018

# ? Sep 11, 2018 14:58

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Imagine being a liberal, looking at the 2016 race and concluding "if only we'd publicly shamed the Trump voting deplorables more often, then we woulda won for sure".

# ? Sep 11, 2018 20:33

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

Iron Twinkie posted:

The only problem that getting rid of private ballots solves is that pesky "one man one vote" barrier for complete control by our oligarchy. Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post and richest human being in existence, would draw up official Amazon employee ballots that would be a condition of continued employment. You can repeat that for every other private employer that runs their business like a petty tyrant of a feudal kingdom and because unionization is at 6% that is effectively all of them. Without a private ballot, Trump would have been elected with 90% of the vote.

Edit.
Voting becomes a question of "Do I personally risk losing any chance of stable employment and being murdered by fascists going door to door with the list of people that didn't vote for Leader or will some coastal liberal dick heads have to put on an extra string of clutching pearls and their extra strength fainting clothes?"

Lol

# ? Sep 12, 2018 02:16

RagnarokZ: May 14, 2004; Emperor of the Internet

QuoProQuid posted:

excited for my boss to threaten me with dismissal unless i vote the right way

thank you for this scorching hot take, op

Is the Op just utterly insane or something? Secret Ballots are absolutely essential for anything that even resembles a functional democracy.

Hell, Sweden is actually in trouble these days, because their electoral system isn't entirely secret, the ballot you pick up to vote actually has the name of the party you want to vote on.

And it's loving poo poo, Secret Ballots or even more stupidity, that's the choice.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 08:36

qkkl: Jul 1, 2013; by FactsAreUseless

Publicly available voting information would enable votes to be bought/extorted. If you thought big business controlled American politics now, imagine when Amazon has a bunch of agents at every polling station in low-income areas promising a $100 Amazon gift card for confirmation that you voted for Amazon's preferred candidate.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 08:47

White Rock: Jul 14, 2007; Creativity flows in the bored and the angry!

RagnarokZ posted:

Is the Op just utterly insane or something? Secret Ballots are absolutely essential for anything that even resembles a functional democracy.

Hell, Sweden is actually in trouble these days, because their electoral system isn't entirely secret, the ballot you pick up to vote actually has the name of the party you want to vote on.

Re: Sweden
This is such a minor issue and can easily circumvented by filling the envelopes pre hand or just grabbing multiple ballots, or just write the party on a blank ballot.

Also you have to be standing right behind the ballot selection box so yes the guy in the line behind you might have an inkling.

Sick of this getting news coverage because the far right party got butt hurt about not getting enough votes and is now saying Sweden is as bad as Iran or something.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 09:25

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

The UK ballot isn't technically secret either if anyone's curious. But certainly nobody but the government would know who you voted for.

# ? Sep 12, 2018 09:46

Nurge: Feb 4, 2009; by Reene; Fun Shoe

There is some streamlining to be had for sure if the corporations can just own the votes directly instead of paying off the people that are voted for.

In all seriousness though the OP's idea is hilarious. D&D doesn't often produce comedy gold, but this is it. Should be goldmined for the future.

Nurge fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Sep 13, 2018

# ? Sep 13, 2018 12:33

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 21:10

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Yes I don't want my employers knowing how I vote.

Next.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 13:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I've Got A Secret Ballot: Is Private Voting Still a Public Good?