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I would not riichi on that hell wait unless you were forced to. Since it's a pair wait every next draw you make can be swapped out to create a new pair wait, which could stand a better chance of being dealt into. If your opponents ever call your bluff they'll absolutely chase your rear end and punish you for it.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:25
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Imo it's defensible if you're hell waiting on a terminal or honor. the whole thing about riichi is that it generally reduces your chance of winning because your opponents will start to go defensive, but if your winning tile looks safe that doesn't apply. once safety tiles (in your discards) are gone, a terminal/honor which has already been played is a very common defensive discard e) for a similar reason you can declare riichi if your only winning tile is something that would be unlikely to be discarded if you stayed dama anyway, like a middle suit dora. because it's unlikely to win by dama Ron anyway, declaring. Riichi isn't actually reducing your winning chances that much, so you may as well riichi for the points and hope for tsumo Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 20:30
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ayy lmao gotten this before but first time in a competitive game (i.e. not against bots)
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May 1, 2019 16:44
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Congratulations to this guy for making maybe the worst discard I've seen in my life
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May 11, 2019 16:59
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just wanted to chime in and say riichi is a lot of fun, have been playing mahjong soul and i find it way more pleasant and enjoyable compared to tenhou. the interface is very clean and friendly and it has nice QOL features as well
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May 14, 2019 21:00
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the main problem with majsoul, which I did not realize until somebody pointed it out to me, is that ranked lobbies cost copper to enter. It won't be noticeable until you start fighting in gold room, but you will eventually run out of currency to play ranked matches. free play is miles better than tenhou's though so I will give it that.
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May 14, 2019 21:49
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dragon enthusiast posted:the main problem with majsoul, which I did not realize until somebody pointed it out to me, is that ranked lobbies cost copper to enter. It won't be noticeable until you start fighting in gold room, but you will eventually run out of currency to play ranked matches. That's what the revival stuff is for: If you get close to 0 copper, you can get a free 4500 (silver room) or 9000 copper (gold room) once per day. That, together with the daily quest should be enough to play a few matches everyday, even if you lose most of them. And if you do win, you can play even more.
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May 14, 2019 22:13
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well the main problem is really the bizarre standard of play. between the US/EU new players and the Chinese players used to Chinese mahjong where there's no downside to calling quads, the level of play is kind of silly compared to other online services
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May 14, 2019 22:52
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How did Mahjong Soul come about, anyway? I was surprised when I heard about a Chinese company making an online riichi mahjong game; wouldn't Chinese players be more likely to play Chinese mahjong?
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May 14, 2019 23:11
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I'd rather play the non-microtransaction game without anime avatars ...
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May 15, 2019 01:23
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Feels Villeneuve posted:well the main problem is really the bizarre standard of play. between the US/EU new players and the Chinese players used to Chinese mahjong where there's no downside to calling quads, the level of play is kind of silly compared to other online services that doesnt explain the calls into 0-yaku hands so im just going to say people like pressing buttons 
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May 15, 2019 02:44
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Seltzer posted:I'd rather play the non-microtransaction game without anime avatars ... I don't understand
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May 15, 2019 18:43
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the classic "riichi on a confirmed sanbaiman" (justification was that my only winning tile was dora and it was an obvious flush hand, so it had zero chance to win on dama ron, so gently caress it, might as well go for the off chance of a uradora match/ippatsu tsumo and kazoe)
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May 27, 2019 15:13
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I think I could get into this game, although learning all the terminology/special cases seems intimidating even with knowing a lot of the basic words from Japanese. Like ツモ is not a problem, but learning all the yakubaimangan phrases or whatever might take some time. Also, the riichibook1 link in the OP is broken.
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Jun 1, 2019 22:10
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Riichi Book moved to https://dainachiba.github.io/RiichiBooks/index.html
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Jun 1, 2019 22:20
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dirby posted:I think I could get into this game, although learning all the terminology/special cases seems intimidating even with knowing a lot of the basic words from Japanese. Like ツモ is not a problem, but learning all the yakubaimangan phrases or whatever might take some time. this is a decent glossary sorted by usage category http://arcturus.su/wiki/List_of_terminology_by_usage_category
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Jun 2, 2019 04:33
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Thanks to both of you! I've played a couple of games on tenhou now and gradually am feeling more comfortable with the terms. The one thing that really surprises me is the speed of play. Tenhou's slowest is like 5 second per discard, and the pdf says in-person games are usually faster. With a lot more time (15-30 seconds per discard?) I could imagine great calculations of everyone's situation and a strategic move, but 5 seconds feels more like blitz. Is time pressure a big concern for experienced players? Or is the 5 seconds per player's discard (plus 10 emergency seconds) enough to use all the available information?
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Jun 2, 2019 17:22
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dirby posted:Thanks to both of you! I've played a couple of games on tenhou now and gradually am feeling more comfortable with the terms. You'll get more used to it. Most of the time youll be able to calculate your next discard(s)/move before the table moves back to your turn.
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Jun 2, 2019 17:27
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I recently started playing FFXIV again, after not playing since 2013 or so I think, and one of the additions in the years since then was Mahjong in a minigame area thing. I've been playing it a lot lately and am enjoying it a lot, and have started winning against other players in the last few days. Found this thread again last night and have started reading the book linked a few posts ago, so thanks for that. On that topic, I decided to start a vs AI game while waiting on some things and watching YouTube videos, since they're untimed and unranked and thus mostly just for practice/fun, and the second round has given me this ridiculous hand; I'm curious what people who are actually good at the game would do with it. It seems like it could go for a lot of things, but they're mutually exclusive.  Normally I wouldn't share a silly vs AI game, but again, I'd like to see what people more familiar with the game would do in this situation; I'm really curious if people would try to commit to something crazy like Thirteen Orphans, be a bit more restrained (All Honors, Little or maybe even Big Three Dragons with a lot of luck, Seven Pairs with all honors and/or terminals, and other things are possible), or forego that sort of thing entirely. My personal inclination, despite what the hint in the bottom-right is advising me, would be to hold onto my dragons and ditch the terminals that almost certainly won't get pairs first, while seeing where my future draws take me, since that seems like it has the best odds of actually happening, doesn't completely cut off other possibilities yet, and allows calls if people discard more dragons, but, again, I'm new and not great, so. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 2, 2019 |
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Jun 2, 2019 18:48
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I believe the odds of thirteen orphans happening only start going in your favor with 11 tiles in the starting hand, so it's way too late for that. 3 of your lone tiles are safe against riichi so I'd probably discard those first, plus terminals and non-yaku honors are generally pretty safe discards. You can call for honor tiles as they appear, and depending on how the wind blows can try to also go for stuff like All Triplets / All Terminal+Honor Melds / Half Flush / Little Three Dragons.
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Jun 3, 2019 00:38
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dragon enthusiast posted:I believe the odds of thirteen orphans happening only start going in your favor with 11 tiles in the starting hand, so it's way too late for that. 3 of your lone tiles are safe against riichi so I'd probably discard those first, plus terminals and non-yaku honors are generally pretty safe discards. You can call for honor tiles as they appear, and depending on how the wind blows can try to also go for stuff like All Triplets / All Terminal+Honor Melds / Half Flush / Little Three Dragons. Yeah, I wouldn't have gone for Thirteen Orphans on my own (though when I started the round I had a fair amount of terminals and one-two of all the dragons, and the game kept giving me terminals so I kept discarding the non-terminals and stuff to see where it was going until I wound up with that hand and decided to share it after spending some time thinking about it), but I was curious what people thought. Amusingly, when I actually tried to continue that game, I discarded something, the player after me declared riichi, and then declared ron when the person after them discarded, so it wound up not mattering at all. Not quite as disappointing as the time I actually had Little Three Dragons made already and a ready hand only for someone else to win first, but still, it was quite an anticlimax. Different topic, what's a good riichi mahjong app for Android, if there is one? The first one I found seems kind of lackluster.
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Jun 3, 2019 00:54
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Roland Jones posted:Different topic, what's a good riichi mahjong app for Android, if there is one? The first one I found seems kind of lackluster. Noten Riichi Mahjong app is good for me if you wanna play AI, but if I have the time I just use the tenhou app. You just gotta be able to learn the tile numbers in chinese and the basic japanese calls like Ron, Kan, Riichi etc. tho its pretty obvious
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Jun 3, 2019 01:14
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dragon enthusiast posted:I believe the odds of thirteen orphans happening only start going in your favor with 11 tiles in the starting hand, so it's way too late for that. 3 of your lone tiles are safe against riichi so I'd probably discard those first, plus terminals and non-yaku honors are generally pretty safe discards. You can call for honor tiles as they appear, and depending on how the wind blows can try to also go for stuff like All Triplets / All Terminal+Honor Melds / Half Flush / Little Three Dragons. the general rule is 9, call for the abortive draw, 10 go if you're trailing badly, 11, go for it
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Jun 3, 2019 05:31
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Roland Jones posted:I recently started playing FFXIV again, after not playing since 2013 or so I think, and one of the additions in the years since then was Mahjong in a minigame area thing. I've been playing it a lot lately and am enjoying it a lot, and have started winning against other players in the last few days. Found this thread again last night and have started reading the book linked a few posts ago, so thanks for that. This is absolutely toitoi with shots at improving with small dragons/big dragons yakuman, and if that doesn't pan out, honitsu (half flush). What you shouldn't do is hold on to those pairs and not call for sets. If this was earlier you'd have more of a shot at holding on to the terminals for honroutou (also all honors is a much crazier hand than kokushi, which is one of the most common limit hands lol) Basically if you ever have four+ pairs during the first discard row you are either going toitoi (all sets) or chiitoi (seven pairs)*. Go for toitoi if: a) you will have two han guaranteed in the hand other than toitoi (5200 non-dealer) AND b) at least three of your four pairs are honors, terminals, or 2/8 tiles (which are much more likely to come out for calls) Go for chiitoi if a) you will have tanyao, or your pairs are mostly simples which are hard to call for pon b) any of your pairs are dead-draws (pair with two other tiles visible, meaning none are left in the wall) c) you will have one or no other han guaranteed if you go toitoi *the exception is cases where your hand might develop faster as a "normal" hand, this usually involves connected pairs, such as 12233444s or something Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 14:24
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dirby posted:I think I could get into this game, although learning all the terminology/special cases seems intimidating even with knowing a lot of the basic words from Japanese. I play the Chinese game with my in-laws and the language isn't that hard once you have the concepts of play down. If anything it has helped expand my vocabulary of Cantonese curses.
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Jun 3, 2019 14:36
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just for reference, here's part of the translated list of limit hands this month, and you might notice a theme (shoutouts to the guy on the top who got ryuuiisou though) http://tenhou.net/3/?log=2019060321gm-0089-0000-806755f6&tw=3&ts=1
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Jun 3, 2019 14:40
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Sorry for the double post but this is a really useful chart for push/fold decisions in games with red dora (this is based off public tenhou statistics) The general rule for pushing is- 1) good wait at half the value of the expected opponent value, or 2) bad wait at equal value to opponent value, subject to judgment calls based on positioning/ability to defend (a shorthand is good wait 4500/3000 is push against dealer/nondealer, and bad wait 7700+ otherwise. if you badly need points or you have absolutely no ability to defend your hand you can get away with e.g. bad wait 6400 or something. this is more or less why you should push virtually any bad-wait dealer mangan even if someone is showing a non-dealer mangan on the table with open calls) (generally "good wait" means six tiles, e.g. waiting on 2/5 with at least six total remaining in the wall, though 5 remaining probably doesn't constitute a "bad" wait) Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 16:25
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Feels Villeneuve posted:This is absolutely toitoi with shots at improving with small dragons/big dragons yakuman, and if that doesn't pan out, honitsu (half flush). What you shouldn't do is hold on to those pairs and not call for sets. Thank you for the detailed analysis. And the explanation of those terms; while I've been picking up on the more commonly-used language for mahjong, those particular ones were new to me. Also wow, didn't realize Thirteen Orphans was so common; without calls being possible and stuff, plus the many, very specific tiles needed, it seems like it should be much rarer than the ones that allow calls. Though I guess if your calls are obviously setting up for a yakuman people will start playing very defensively so as to not get obliterated. Still, that isn't what I was expecting. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 18:31
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It's a common hand for a yakuman, which are already super rare in general. Tenhou keeps public logs of all this stuff so you can actually see how often they happen. http://tenhou.net/sc/2018/11/prof.html In the month of November 2018, out of over 1 million winning hands in jokyuu aka-ari hanchan (probably the room with the most representative sample), less than 0.04% won with kokushi. This has probability breakdowns of whether or not to go for it if you are interested https://osamuko.com/i-told-you-not-to-go-for-kokushi/ dragon enthusiast fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 19:03
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I don't know the exact probabilities but it's probably a case of needing one tile each (plus one more for a pair) of 13 types (14/52 available) versus needing four triplets and a pair of 7 types (14/28 available). Of course that isn't perfect because Kokushi has a specific hand shape needed. (Chinroutou, all-terminals is even rarer, needing four triplets and a pair of six types, meaning you need 14 of 24 tiles available) I think another factor is that if you get a Kokushi deal, you're virtually always going to go for it, whereas a deal that has an outside chance for All Honors will probably happily get turned into Toitoi Honitsu yakuhai 3 or something. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 19:07
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mahjong soul isn't that bad if you can put up with anime
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Jun 4, 2019 09:08
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kan nya
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Jun 4, 2019 11:43
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While I can pick things up slowly on Tenhou, I've been playing the English flash game which can help me learn everything at once while taking my time. It's really good as a tutorial and has reminders for all the yaku definitions, etc. I'll probably alternate between it and Tenhou as I learn. The same site has a 1v1 sou-only game which is good for reading practice (especially for chinitsu): https://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/bamboo/bamboo.html I guess you need to be able to read the basic words in Japanese for that one though. dirby fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 00:36
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I have been laid low by my own greed. Punished for my hubris.  (In case it's not clear, the first picture is just after I passed on a Ron for 8, hoping for someone to discard a white dragon. Predictably, someone else won the round instead. I went on to lose the match.)
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Jun 18, 2019 02:21
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I'm headed to my first in-person game. I'm excited, but nervous I'm going to chombo all over the place or have trouble getting used to whatever choice of English terms they might use.
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Jun 26, 2019 22:52
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dirby posted:I'm headed to my first in-person game. I'm excited, but nervous I'm going to chombo all over the place or have trouble getting used to whatever choice of English terms they might use. honestly the hardest part is learning how to lift up an entire row of tiles at once to make the walls hint: if they're using a good mat, rack the line up against the inner wall of the mat.
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Jun 27, 2019 00:35
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Gnossiennes posted:honestly the hardest part is learning how to lift up an entire row of tiles at once to make the walls I found that pretty easy until the 6th hand when I squeezed the row too hard and the tiles flew everywhere. I was surprised at how different it feels to play in person. I missed things I wouldn't miss online. Some of that is that I have to be ready to call and can't just wait for the calls to appear in a popup box. But with a couple more games maybe I'll be less flustered.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:20
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Gnossiennes posted:honestly the hardest part is learning how to lift up an entire row of tiles at once to make the walls I line up the tiles, two at a time, against the edge of the table. Then I line up the next level on top of those. I slide my finger down the line of tiles to make sure they're straight, then I push the outer tiles in to compress the line together and slide it into place. dirby posted:I was surprised at how different it feels to play in person. I missed things I wouldn't miss online. Some of that is that I have to be ready to call and can't just wait for the calls to appear in a popup box. But with a couple more games maybe I'll be less flustered. You really have to pay attention in a fast moving game in a way that you don't in a computer game. That tile you wanted to "pong" is going to be long gone if you don't call it immediately.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:33
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make sure to spread the good word of the 500 point stick https://riichireporter.com/clean-up-your-table-with-500-point-tenbou/
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Jun 27, 2019 19:38
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dragon enthusiast posted:make sure to spread the good word of the 500 point stick That would have been helpful, definitely.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:06
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