Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Once we deleted the poo poo episodes from the old seasons we were often left with fewer than 10 anyway. Maybe they just saved us the bother and didn't film them.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I'm really happy. I enjoyed the outer limits feeling to the bits before The Doctor dropped in, and how her involvement was a continuation of the vibe and let it development.

Now there were some plot holes but they might be the season. E.g. when buddy said that he gave the guy permission to land - but the aliens had been on earth already. Who gave permission then?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Plavski posted:


That's not a plot hole, just information the audience doesn't have. We can infer that some other randomer gave permission.

Well perhaps. The point I want to make is that this episode has lots of good little connection points like that which might be flaws in the writing or which might become strengths depending on the next 9

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


TinTower posted:

Let's see what the general reaction on Gallifrey Base is…


oh.

:samjohnson:

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I watched those trailers and it was worth it for "Scary Poppins."

But now you don't need to.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Stairs posted:

OMG I love Evelyn! It was so refreshing to have an older companion again! The Marian Conspiracy was great, but Spectre of Lanyon Moor was my fave (Brig!).

I've been listening to some Evelyn ones lately too and I enjoy her, but that one about Juli(a/us) Caesar was completely incoherent.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Idunno. I find there's something charming and hobbit-like about the pants + suspenders and poo poo-stompers.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I like the new tardis except the big crystals.

I'll jump on the "individual parts good but whole a bit weak" review bandwagon. I enjoyed every minute of it but I probably won't watch it again.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Astroman posted:

That tent in the desert was straight outta The Greatest Show In The Galaxy.

I was wondering if it was going there

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


The survival suits + spaceship design reminded me of Dune

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Vaporware posted:

As a filthy casual, I've enjoyed these two EPs more than the deep cuts with the daleks or Cybermen where I have no idea what the history is.

I felt the attack linens were creepy enough to scare the kids so mission accomplished.

The robots looked cool with hoodies and Halo guns.

I liked that the doctor was the only one admitting that if the TARDIS didn't appear, literally right then, they would be dead within the day. It obviously will happen, but the formula must be obeyed.

The secret :ssh: with the daleks and the cybermen is that the history is a white noise of self-contradictions and retcons such that the only applicable thing is "they scary; doctor beats them lots."

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Well it's the Space Nazi Hunter aliens from e1 came and made the scientists do all the bad stuff, so the desolation is a bit of a continuation from Dr. Strange's weird button and the celestial macaroon.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


McDragon posted:

Also I had the subtitles on and I appreciate that the sound effect for the Tardis is indeed VWORP


Yeah, I think that's what it was going for. Just was a very abrupt answer to the mystery.

It should have been either a bigger reveal or a smaller reveal. An Roanoke / Ozymandias style "they were great and they're gone," with only a few monuments and a "CROATOAN" would have been creepy and good.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Clouseau posted:

You can definitely include me in the surprised about Catherine Tate camp. She was a real delight after three series where the companion was mooning over the doctor.

I hated The Runaway Bride and I was just shocked to find that she was returning as the full-time companion, and then I loved her.

I'm imagining a Wilf-Donna-Nardole episode right now. There would be some good chemistry.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Jerusalem posted:

Imagine being the Daleks. You've fought some mind-bending insane time war with a bunch of old assholes who have been running poo poo in the universe for 10 million years and you're WINNING, and it's down to the final moments and you've loving won forever and it's over and ultimate victory is finally yours.... and then all 12* Doctors show up and you just KNOW that they're gonna pull some bullshit :xd:

* No sir.....

gently caress I love that scene every time I watch it.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I liked it quite a bit.

It was pretty close to a straight historical, actually - not all the way there, but no aliens getting ready to end the world or anything supernatural beyond the insertion of the bad guy. Even the bad guy time traveller didn't use his tech for anything other than getting into the setting or shooting at the other time travellers.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


docbeard posted:

Thinking about it a little more, I'm struck by the ways in which this compares with probably my other favorite revival-era historical story, Vincent and the Doctor, particularly in that the Doctor and Company don't always have magical solutions to things. You can't make suicidal depression go away by showing someone a good time, and you can't make institutionalized racism vanish by making a speech or smashing a vortex manipulator.

Of course the other way in which it compares is that the alien "threat" feels unnecessary and arguably weakens the story, though I guess there's a bit more justification here; you need the time traveler to justify the Doctor wanting to poke around, and you need that time traveler to be malicious* to set up the need to Put Right What Once Went Wrong. (Whoever compared this favorably to a Quantum Leap episode was dead on, in my opinion.)

The more I think about it though, the more I dig Kresko just being a straight up Future White Supremacist, since it plays pretty well into the idea that things like racism won't ever magically disappear, that they must always be opposed. Like, there are other, more nuanced ways to tell this story, and other stories to tell, but I think this worked. I think it was good.

___
*Or at least meddlesome, perhaps some sort of monk-like figure?

The monster is my least favourite part of Vincent and the Doctor. That always felt somehow unnecessary to me. In all of its budget-saving lack-of-glory, the monster there is just a dumb maguffin to force the setting for the more interesting parts of the story.


My biggest worry about Rosa was that it was somehow going to be a self referential play on Rose.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Nodosaur posted:

the last episode before this one was about a space race on a desert world where the water is made of death and people are going "WHERE ARE MY SPACE ADVENTURES?" Seriously?

Just ignore people who complain about that kind of thing. They've just decided that it's terrible and that they don't like it. If it were clearly space adventures, then we'd have them complaining about the lack of historicals.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


This one felt disorderly and not so great to me. Def my least favourite out of the four we've had.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Spatula City posted:

I sure hope so, it would be kind of cool if in lieu of a series arc, the finale ties a bunch of disparate threads together. It's just hard to imagine Chibnall isn't doing this on purpose. alternately, he could deliberately be characterizing the Doctor as still finding her footing, and there's finally a big moment where the Doctor definitively handles an antagonist. The Doctor hasn't yet met with serious sexist treatment in Earth's past, so that's going to be very interesting, too.

It's weird because I don't think the writing is BAD, but it's lacking structure and polish in the way a lot of Moffat episodes have. on my wishlist for next season I'd like to see Chibnall hand more episodes off to guests, and also not frontload the episodes written by him.

also I haven't seen much yet to justify why the Doctor should have three companions. I defended the move before the season because I saw potential, but it's creating some weird problems I didn't anticipate.

Here's the biggest - other than the premiere, so far nothing's been particularly fatal in consequence. With four characters with plot armor, who all need moments, it's difficult to also develop guest characters doomed to die. so nobody dies in Ghost Monument despite the stated risks. Rosa obviously isn't one of those "risk of terrible death" episodes, but Arachnids in the UK is, and of the three confirmed deaths, only one is a speaking character, and none of the victims ever meet the Doctor and companions. Once the group gets together, nobody dies, nobody's even injured.

This makes me think of the end of The Doctor Dances.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Wheat Loaf posted:

Oliver Cromwell would be an enjoyable historical figure for the TARDIS team to meet.

Fil5000 posted:

Given how they approached Churchill I'd be ok with them not going anywhere near Cromwell.

Edit: also, I think they met him in one of the audios, specifically in Ireland, but it's one of the ones I've never heard.

The best way to handle Cromwell would be to have the first half of the episode showing him as the charismatic, heroic leader who liberal histories romanticized, to get the viewer to identify with him, and then in the next quarter, start to erode that, probably by drawing on Marvell's "Horatian Ode" for tone and content, and then in the last quarter pull back the curtain and show the atrocity behind the cult of personality.

HEY BBC I'M AVAILABLE AS A SCRIPT CONSULTANT LETS DO THIS

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I liked it better than the previous, too. I found something quite nice about the set design. It felt evocative of Classic Who, but without feeling cheap like Classic Who

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Azhais posted:

It really seemed like a massively low effort sideplot to give Graham and Ryan something to do. I wish they'd have dropped that and given them a task related in some way to the drama of the episode. Have them in the guts of the ship at a fuse box turning power on and off to lure nibbler to the bomb or something.

Well it was a clumsy gender inversion juxtaposition. Yaz, the cop, gets the weapon and the GUARD role, so the boys get sent off to the caregiver role. I can see why they'd want to do that, but it would have been better if some more instrumental character were pregnant or needed care or whatever.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


SimplyCosmic posted:

Who fandom is large enough that opinions will probably always vary on any individual run of episodes in the show's history.

That said, I'm loving this season. It's not perfect, which I'm happy to talk about, but as someone who also watched classic Who on late night PBS in-between pledge drives, this feels a lot closer to the old-school than at any point in the revival.

I think at various points in the revival, "a plot" came to mean a big ending that either involved a million million somethings exploding, the end of a civilization's status quo, or the reveal of an overly complex puzzle box. Chibnall's not great at solid endings, definitely, but I've been far more underwhelmed by the resolution to Impossible Astronaut, A Good Man Goes to War, and especially, especially Hell Bent. Of course, in the classic series, a lot of the "plot" was just people running from point A to B to C and then back to A.

To me, the character interactions are a breath of fresh air, and I'd rather have my [One, Susan, Barbara & Ian] [Two, Jamie & Zoe] [...] [Thirteen, Graham, Ryan & Yaz] in the forefront.

As for those characters, Yaz and Ryan are far more complete characters after 5 episodes than Clara was after 3 full seasons and several specials.

I agree with this part

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Organza Quiz posted:

That's why I liked the dude giving birth plotline tbh. Aside from it being queer as all hell, it's all about men grappling with family and babies and other issues that are usually given to female characters to worry about. It's so so far from that godawful WOMAN STRONG BECAUSE WOMAN CARRY BABY from that one Christmas special and so good for kids to see.

And (as I noted above) it's parallel to a female cop being given a weapon and put on guard duty with an asexual android.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Are there any classic episodes where (e.g.) Susan/Vicki and Barbara are sent off to be basically midwives where (e.g.) Ian gets a sword or something? Like, I know that scene has happened, but I'm trying to think of a specific example, and I'm coming up short and it's nagging me.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I liked it a lot - great setting, great story which scales well to the time it has to tell it, and I really like the "fooled you it was a straight historical!" storytelling.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


JustinMorgan posted:

So i know absolutely nothing about the partition of India. But I'd like to learn more about it. Any recommended reading or watching? Fiction in that setting is fine. Non fiction is fine if it's not too much like a high school textbook.

Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children is not exactly about the partition, though it looms large in the post-colonial story. It's also one of the most unbelievably wonderful books ever written and I can't recommend it enough.

Several of Rohinton Mistry's novels address it (or related tensions in India) as well.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Cojawfee posted:

I think the spider thing was supposed to be spooky.

Also, this episode seems like the Doctor and crew being there had no effect. If they didn't show up, this episode would have ended the same way.

Or had it already ended that way?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


The_Doctor posted:

I think if they’d intended that, there’d have been more of a subtle wink on it, or something.

Maybe she could have told Yaz that she was her favourite granddaughter and given her a keepsake that had a direct connection to that meaningful event seven decades earlier :tinfoil:

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


LividLiquid posted:

Somebody on Twitter pointed out that twelve didn't think a black man could be a math teacher and just... wow, yeah, that's pretty gross.

His negging on Clara's looks the whole season bothered me in the moment, but this one whizzed right by and I didn't notice how :stare: it is.

I liked him a lot better in his second and third series.

It's a bad look and a valid reading but for this I choose to believe that he was ragging on Danny as the gym teacher because Danny is a big muscle guy.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Jodie clicked for me in her entrance through the roof of the train. I was fully on board from that second.

"Long story, tell you later." "Augh - I hate empty pockets!" "Why are you calling me madam?" "Am I? Does it suit me?"

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


DoctorWhat posted:

super cool how this episode stans hard for a megacorporation

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Narsham posted:

How many episodes of the show pre-Chibnall show things that way? There's some Troughton-era stories, sure, although there's also the Dominators. Happiness Patrol claims that you can talk snipers out of shooting people and that the jackbooted thugs will all switch sides bloodlessly, and that's about as revolutionary as the show gets. Even Oxygen can only tell us that social progress occurs, it can't show us, and does it matter if things get bad again later on? You can punch Hitler but you can't stop the Holocaust.


The Sun Makers

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


That list of 55 things makes me want to see 13 team up with a 50-something year old Ace.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


I agree with the sentiment that the Morax conclusion wasn't as well-executed as it could have been, but I really like every part of the episode if not the sum. I thought that Lady Savage's motivations were really well-considered and thoughtful given the premises and setting, too.

Though that it's a 17th-century episode gives it an automatic +2/10 for me no matter what. I even liked that one where Me was the highwayman fighting the fire breathing lion alien, because 17th century.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Rosa is soooo close to being a pure historical. The main thing that separates it from something like Black Orchid is the fact that the time travellers arrived in two different groups. The bad dude isn't using his future tech to help in his interference. There are no supernatural implications beyond the non-interference of time travel. In that respect it's quite a bit like many of the early classic historicals - just this time there is disagreement on it!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Cleretic posted:

I do kinda wish we'd instead gotten a story of 'corporation becomes person, turns out to be a better person than the people running it'. That just seems like a really fun idea.

Maybe that's where Kerblamm! was going, and they were like "well why is the bad guy pissed off? dunno slap some poo poo together... who hates corporations?"

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


That was sweet. Probably the 2nd best episode of the series. The anti-zone was awesome - it felt like a 1970s classic who set sandwiched between the two high-quality higher-production value worlds. I half expected a Silurian or Alpha Centauri to appear!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Carbon dioxide posted:

Listen to this, neither universe was our universe or at least it wasn't our earth.

I have proof.
In the beginning of the episode:
Doctor: "We're in Norway. One of the frilly bits on the top"
A few seconds later:
Doctor: "A cottage in Norway, in winter, but no smoke coming out of the chimney"

So they're in northern Norway in winter. But there's no snow except a little bit on the mountain tops, the forest is completely green, and looking at the background the sun must be reasonably high in the sky.
That's not how earth northern Norway works in winter.
I think they're stuck in an endless set of mirror universes.

Yeah I noticed that too.

Plus that there's no smoke coming out just means it's empty. Weakass dialogue.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply