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So for a variety of reasons I have closed the D&D Authoritarians thread and have moved it to a much more "hip" (as the kids say these days) forum. (D&D is full of squares and is run by the man, maaaaaaan.) So this is now the thread for discussing the Narrativist Framework or just chilling out or whatever. This is a cool thread full of cool people who want to occasionally write novella-sized posts when they aren't discussing which weed strain goes best with which video game. (9lb Hammer is the superior garnish to an evening of Horizon:Zero Dawn.) So just come in here and chill out, get a feel for the place. and if you feel like making a gigantic effortpost discussing some sort of abstract theory of behavior that loosely ties into politics then there is a pretty good chance that someone will make a cool gigantic effortpost in return. ("Good-faith effortposting is rewarded with good-faith effortposting" is our motto around these parts) If you just want to post TRUMP! and drop a tweet that shows off the latest compaction cycle that is also cool. Effortpopsts from me explaining why the succ dems succ so much should start showing up within a day or two. Till then 
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Oct 23, 2018 01:34
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Picking the discussion up where it left off in the old thread:Prester Jane posted:So a big focus of the new thread is going to be on why established elites are psychologically predisposed to siding with Narrativists over progressives whenever "inequality of access to resources" (income inequality in our particular society) grows to a sufficient extent that it begins to disrupt a substantial portion of the individuals in a given population -and why that cycle is presently holding true in our society. Curiously despite the vast majority of the material I am about to introduce having very little to do directly with pathological individuals or extremists- the overall conclusions of the new thread are going to be (if anything) a good bit darker than this thread was. BOOSness Hammocks posted:The classic answer to this question is that capitalists believe that fascists will leave their wealth and support systems intact while socialism will put those things into the service of the common good, so genocide is a reasonable price to pay for keeping their poo poo (and might even open new markets). Prester Jane posted:My approach to this same subject is going to be largely apolitical- I'm looking at this from the perspective of how lived experience shapes the way the brain processes information, which then in turn shapes both worldview and behavior. The lived experience of an established multi-generational Elite Class selects very heavily for a particular combination of self-replicating behavior pattern- what I call "Structuralist Cooperators". ("Structuralist" being an archetype and "Cooperator" a subtype.)
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Oct 23, 2018 01:39
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To go just a bit further than the last post did- a huge contributing factor to our present situation was the racialy imbalanced way that the New Deal was implemented. The so-called "White expert class" that emerged in the wake of the New Deal was primarily composed of Structuralist Cooperators- and they have been an obstinate obstacle to true progressive reform in this country ever since. In my view this song is a progressive trying to call out the Structuralist Cooperators that existed within the Democratic party of his era. I really strongly encourage everyone who read the last post to listen to every word in this song, because it makes our present situation much more readily understandable*. *also horrible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw
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Oct 23, 2018 01:43
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T-man posted:What about my question about HHS' trans de-recognition thing? I think it might be a good subject to discuss. Glad to be here you nerd. In my view it is (logical and sadly predictable) what I would term "opportunistic dehumanization". As compaction cycles continue to play out in Trump's base they become steadily more radicalized- and as raicalization continues eventually compaction cycles evolve from internally focused purity tests into externally focused "violence cycles". That is to say that committing acts of violence becomes the preferred method to resolve Narrative Dysphoria In order to create the social conditions that permit violence cycles to be enacted in public you need to dehumanize a targeted minority sufficiently that the existent authority is likely to give quiet consent to "vigilante" violence enacted against the targeted minority group. For a variety of reasons transpeople (in particular transwomen) are a convenient target for dehumanization at present in our society. The erasure of transgender identities is a necessary step to begin enacting harsher legal and extra-legal harassment of the transgender community. Way back on election night in 2016 I predicted that transwomen would eventually be on watchlists, so to me the HHS thing is just one more step along that path.
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Oct 23, 2018 01:58
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Willie Tomg posted:i genuinely feel like you're ricky gervais in The Invention of Lying, except from the opposite end, where you realize because of your extremely hosed-up circumstances that everyone--everyone. EVERYONE!--grows up lying for advantage and then creating grand demi-medical frameworks in order to explain that dishonesty from a hopelessly medicalized personal perspective where truth-telling is considered fundamentally good. I hear what you are saying and all I ask is that you give me a few months to elaborate on my underlying thinking. I am abbreviating a great deal of complicated material in the above post- partly out of necessity so that I have some sort of frame-of-reference to structure my underlying arguments. My thinking on this starts with a novel model of the subconscious mind and builds layer-upon-layer up from there- with a heavy focus on how childhood influences the subconscious structures that directly impact how a given individual is experiencing reality. I'm not saying that when I'm done your mind will be changed, all I'm asking is for a chance to elaborate on my full theoretical framework
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Oct 23, 2018 02:03
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Also a clarification on how I view my own work, I label myself an "Outsider Theorist". In that my theories have largely been formed in complete ignorance of the academic world as well as coming at the same problem of human behavior from a very different angle. It is my goal to make my work as interesting, internally consistent, and formally structured as possible. That said I fully recognize that because of my illness there will always be problems in my work and it will never truly be "correct". It is my belief that the full value of my work cna only be realized by formally trained academics using it as a springboard to create something better- bringing my ideas "Inside" if you will. In essence I believe that if I am truly on to something with all this then someday my work will leave my hands and its growth/direction taken over by formally trained scientists. So it is my intent to never attempt to create a formal scientific theory so much as to create a novel conceptual framework that an actual scientist could use to create a formal scientific theory. I accept and acknowledge the limitations that places on my work- but I also believe this the best way for me personally to develop this project. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 02:12 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 02:10
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Halloween Jack posted:PJ you're claiming your approach is apolitical and from the perspective of personality psychology...and your subject matter is voting blocs and political behaviour. Rethink this from first principles. I understand why you think that but I've been primarily using the impacts of these behavior in a political context to both demonstrate their existence as well as describe their function. The underlying theories themselves are completely apolitical in nature. To demonstrate I provide this example of Narrativism occurring in a completely apolitical context. This is a pretty good primer to what is often referred to as the "Final Fantasy 7 House"- a small cluster of tiny cults based around believing oneself was a direct reincarnation of a video game character that literally existed in an alternate universe. Its all here, from compaction cycles to inner narratives to the leadership figures often having obvious Cluster-B personality disorders. (Also appearances by Otherkin.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFRjrLmc_4c Willie Tomg posted:PJ have you floated this to a Psych or Sociology wing of a university? I'm dead serious: just send out a blast email "Hi, I'm Prester Jane, as part of my overall process I'm writing about right wing authoritarianism, here's what I have so far, does anybody have any papers about things like this?" I honestly haven't since I got things somewhat formalized on the website, I tried previously before that there was some interest but I did not have a convenient way to present it to someone who wasn't inactive follower of the D&D thread at the time. I'd be willing to try again though. Do you happen to have any suggestions? T-man posted:If you start drawing prepubescent butterfly children being eaten to explain the EU I think the right term would be "Outsider Theorist." Your work is out there, and it isn't given the full analysis it would have if you were some 18th century Rich White Dude, but I'm not sure if isolating your position as one inherently outside any acceptance of cultural norms we practice. Not in the weird quasi-smug Willie Tomg way, just that you are just as much a person of your day and place as any other nerd online. We're always already inside the system, as a drunk gender studies grad would say. Fair enough. How about we table the issue for a few months until I've had a better chance to explain just how far down the rabbit hole my work goes? Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 09:16 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 02:44
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Halloween Jack posted:"The theory applies to political behaviour, but it's not limited to that!" I knew that would be the first response. But we're pretty much only talking about political behaviour. Please go watch the video on the Final Fantasy 7 house and then revisit this post.
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Oct 23, 2018 02:56
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Jazerus posted:and fwiw there are dem narrativists too, as has been shown rather strikingly in the last two years Also Bob Avakian's little Narrativist cult.
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Oct 23, 2018 03:36
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McGlockenshire posted:
It's all about matching the particular mental requirements of a given game with the way a given strain of weed impacts your thinking. Obviously fortnite is a little too Twitchy for what it indicate does for you, so let me suggest what I feel would be the perfect match to a generic Indica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDUKV2U7v94 Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 04:35 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 04:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Cool! Let's examine about the authoritarian personality at work, at school, in church, in art, in sport, in service organizations. If this lens is far broader than politics, let's have an analysis that actually goes beyond politics and doesn't rely on video clips of right-wing political activists as evidence or case studies. It demonstrates 100% that Narrativism can occur in completely apolitical situations. The snare to vision is in and of itself inherently a political and can occur in any political context, or even in a non-political context. quote:
Then please explain how the Final Fantasy 7 house was political in nature. Either that or you have to dispute that the Final Fantasy 7 house is a clear-cut example of Narrativism. From my perspective the Final Fantasy house demonstrates quite clearly the inherently apolitical nature of Narrativism and there is no further reason to continue this conversation because I've already clearly established the evidence that backs up my assertions. Unless you're able to somehow dispute that evidence then.... Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 16:27 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 16:23
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Also let me clarify that my work has basically nothing to do with personality and for the most part ignores personality as it is presently conceptualized in the psychological field. You can be extremely extroverted or introverted and still be a Narrativist for example- "personality" has nothing to do with it.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:26
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Halloween Jack posted:This is so unbelievably silly. What's silly about it? The Final Fantasy 7 house is an example of Narrativism occurring more or less in a political vacuum. If Narrativism can occur in a completely apolitical context then the behavior itself is not political in nature.
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Oct 23, 2018 16:36
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Helsing posted:1. Even when a fully trained PhD academic starts littering their article with neologisms or newly coined buzzwords it usually feels unearned and annoying. I didn't even have a Social Security number until I was 14. I was raised in a backwards doomsday cult and my life has primarily been preoccupied with trying to overcome that. Beyond basic arithmetic and reading my actual education didn't start until I entered High School, prior to that I had been educated by the cult. I am literally a disabled schizophrenic who lives in Portland on less than $1,000 a month from my social security check, I never really had the option to go to college. Also when I started this project the first drafts were literally written on a library computer because I was living in a homeless shelter at the time. Like I am doing the goddmned best job of this I can with basically no resources whatsoever and a huge pile of obstacles in front of me, you'll forgive me if I have no idea how to even go about reviewing literature that I've never once had access to in my life. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 17:03 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 17:00
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I think I need to clarify what the underlying cause of Narrativism- the subconscious adoption of specific ways of processing information about the world. This adoption process ("Narrative Induction") is caused by being exposed to communications (either written or verbal, although verbal is much much much stronger) that rely on "Bypass Logic" to reach its conclusion. Once enough exposure has occurred then the mind will begin to adopt the three specific heuristics that comprise Bypass logic. Once these characteristics are adopted sufficiently, then the budding there to this world you will begin to conform rapidly to the 4-tiered structure of the Grand Narrative. Once they have adopted that structure into their underline worldview, then shortly after that they will begin to formulate their Inner Narrative. At this point the brand new Narrativist is "low-compaction"; meaning that they are at the very bottom of the radicalization process and their "Enemy" does not yet represent a constant psychological threat that must be addressed in some way. The next thing the brand new Narrativist will do is look for other Narrativists to start forming social groups with, and if they are successful in this then there will inevitably be compaction cycles that will drive the radicalization process. If a new Narrativist is not able to join a Narativist group and participate in compaction cycles, they will remain a mostly harmless kook. You can watch this entire basic process play out in the excellent documentary "The Brainwashing of my Dad". In that documentary you have a perfectly normal person who starts listening to right-wing radio during long commutes to work. Hours and hours and hours of this exposure to right-wing radio caused him to become a Narrativist. Thankfully this individual was never able to join a Narrativist group, and as a result remained low-compaction. This made it possible for his family to pull him out of narrative ISM by basically cutting off his access to right-wing media. Once he stopped having bypass logic be constantly reinforced- he drifted out of being a Narrativist and more or less returned to being the person he had been prior. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh3TeTxgNVo Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 17:33 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 17:25
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Cadaver_Maclaine posted:I think a lot of derives from your first paragraph and the sense that since about that time white dominance felt itself threatened in a way it hadn't been since probably the civil rights era, which was especially aggravated by years of racially-laced fearmongering since 9/11 and anticipated economic stability falling out from beneath their feet. In my opinion the straw that broke the camel's back was that week in 2014 where you had both the oberg Rafael decision as well as Confederate flags being taken down in response to the Charleston shooting. These events were extremely large blasts of "Narrative Dysphoria" to both the religious cluster and the racist cluster, and compaction cycle / very visible radicalization started to occur shortly after those events. It was essentially shooting a Roman candleat a pile of wood soaked in kerosene- as decade's of right-wing media had created a huge number of relatively low-compaction Narrativists within our country. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 17:34 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 17:30
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Willie Tomg posted:This is why I'm telling you to email universities though. Academics generally don't mind helping with this kind of thing even when the people doing the asking aren't tuition paying students. They will skim databases and give you poo poo for free. Some of them will be dicks about it but some of them won't. They will help you with the heavy lifting on this; you don't need to reinvent the wheel. I do want to thank you for your kind suggestion, I do intend to put something together and try emailing local University professors who might be interested. It's going to take me some time to be able to do that though, there's a lot of anxiety behind me taking that particular course of action that I'll have to address before I can do it.
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Oct 23, 2018 18:38
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staticman posted:That new, C-SPAM Prester Jane thread smell (it smells like new car). I've got quite a lot to say about this article, let me go piece by piece. quote:This month, Facebook and Twitter deleted the accounts of hundreds of users, including many alternative media outlets maintained by American users. Among those wiped out in the coordinated purge were popular sites that scrutinized police brutality and U.S. interventionism like The Free Thought Project, Anti-Media, Cop Block and journalists like Rachel Blevins. Now let me first specify that I regard most large corporations as being dominated by "Integrator Cooperators". The differences between a Structuralist and an Integrator are well beyond the scope of this post; but the enabling of Narrativism in order to preserve the status quo is very much a feature of Cooperator behavior. (That is to say that although A Structuralist Cooperator has significant differences with an Integrator Cooperator, both will enable Narrativism in order to preserve their personal status quo. In this case Facebook is appeasing far right Narrativists by cooperating with an agenda to remove sources of Narrative Dysphoria from their platform. I believe this is a direct result of right-wing narrative efforts to whip up outrage against Facebook and therefore threaten their status quo- resulting in Facebook's capitulation and the advancement of the right wing Narrativist agenda. This is part of the interaction between Narrativists and Cooperators that occurs over and over in history- Cooperators who have their status quo threatened by Narrativists capitulate to/enable the Narrativist movement that is threatening them. Narrativism can therefor overcome a culture no matter how many losses it receives so long as it controls the dominant social narratives of that culture. As a result Narrativists are obsessed heavily with controlling the social messages in entertainment and media and mostly ignore traditional/logistical concerns. (e.g. Jordan Peterson's obsession with Disney movies). Once a Narrativist group becomes some sort of credible threat to a cooperating group, the Narrativists gain tremendously outsized leverage over the Cooperators*. *See for example Disney's recent firing of James Gunn- Disney perceived a credible threat to their status quo and as a result capitulated to an attack brought on exclusively by Narrativists. quote:Jamie Fly is an influential foreign policy hardliner who has spent the last year lobbying for the censorship of “fringe views” on social media. Over the years, he has advocated for a military assault on Iran, a regime change war on Syria, and hiking military spending to unprecedented levels. He is the embodiment of a neoconservative cadre. Just lol that this is literally a part of a rebranded version of the project for a New American Century. 12 years ago the project for a New American Century was focus of various conspiracy theories- at the time Alex Jones must have spent at least 10 to 15 minutes a day talking about the project for a New American Century. quote:By August, a new, and seemingly related initiative appeared out of the blue, this time with backing from a bipartisan coalition of Democratic foreign policy hands and neocon Never Trumpers in Washington. Called the Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD), the outfit aimed to expose how supposed Russian Twitter bots were infecting American political discourse with divisive narratives. It featured a daily “Hamilton 68” online dashboard that highlighted the supposed bot activity with easily digestible charts. Conveniently, the site avoided naming any of the digital Kremlin influence accounts it claimed to be tracking. The systematic purging of sources of narrative dysphoria (to right wing Narrativists) is well underway, and it's being enabled by the Cooperators who control the DNC and large corporations. quote:A November 2017 investigation by Max Blumenthal, a co-author of this article, found that the ASD’s Hamilton 68 dashboard was the creation of “a collection of cranks, counterterror retreads, online harassers and paranoiacs operating with support from some of the most prominent figures operating within the American national security apparatus.” Narrativists don't care about facts, they care about getting someone who is perceived as having credibility to repeat their talking points. Once they have achieved that they will go about implementing the agenda of suppressing sources of narrative dysphoria in any way they can. quote:In his conversation with Sprague, the German Marshall Fund’s Fly stated that he was working with the Atlantic Council in the campaign to purge alternative media from social media platforms like Facebook. I have been arguing for some time that corporate and political actors are figuring out how to use social media in order to weaponize and spread Narrativism. In this particular example we have right wing Narrativists applying pressure to a Cooperator organization- and that Cooperator organization is capitulating in order to prevent disruptions to their status quo.
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Oct 23, 2018 19:43
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Helsing posted:If you are taking the effort to put yourself out there and solicit feedback for your ideas you're obviously ready to think about what others have written on this topic. Constructing your own entire original theory based purely on your own observation and research is a poor approach and frankly anyone who doesn't tell you that is doing you a disservice. You're presenting your ideas as a system of thought that can be used to make sense of the world so I thinks the standard I'm holding to you is perfectly fair. This is literally the first time in my life I've ever had enough stability to be able to contemplate reading that literature. I'm not opposed to reading academic literature that covers simular topics, but it's exceedingly annoying when my lack of formal credentials is used constantly as a gatekeeper to insist that I shouldn't be talking about my ideas yet at all. And that's what it all to mately comes down to every time this particular objection is brought up about my work- it's always been used as a way to gate keep me from even trying to get my work out there in any form. If you have a suggestion for something you think I should read then point me to it, goons have been doing exactly that for years and although I don't always read everything that I get pointed to I do read quite a bit of it. If you see where my vocabulary terms clearly overlap with an existing concept and academic literature, then please also point me to that. Because thus far whenever I have found overlap my theories are much much much much much more elaborated than what presently exists. For example I believe that the "Deep Story" of Aroie Hochschild is basically covering the same conceptual territory as the grand narrative, however I would argue that the Grand Narrative is a substantially more refined and detailed exploration of that concept and what are Lee has done thus far.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:04
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Now maybe I am a touch sensitive about the topic, but my experience has been that is generally just away to dismiss me without having to engage with the actual content of my ideas. This is how the exact same conversation ended a few months ago in the Thunderdome thread:twodot posted:
Also: twodot posted:Yes, it turns out you are in a position where it is effectively impossible to convince anyone they should care about your made up vocabulary which you built using your non-existent training. This line of reasoning has been used against me a number of times, and as a result I'm a little quick on the trigger about the topic of why I don't have a formal education to backup my theories.
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Oct 23, 2018 21:31
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Now for some actual content: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ppolling...r%3D200%23pti27 https://mobile.twitter.com/SenSchum...D200%23lastpost https://mobile.twitter.com/shaun_je...D200%23lastpost
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Oct 23, 2018 21:41
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So attacking George Soros has become sort of an outer narrative for "the Jewish agenda"- and there does seem to be a significant uptick in attacks on George Soros of late. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNkK_vLbZcQ This video is extremely proclick. Pat Robertson's solution to the migrant caravan is to use the military to force them into a concentration camp, "and then once you have them in a situation that seems humanitarian begin to arrest them". His main concern with the migrant Caravan is literally the "pr nightmare from beating on children and peasents" and he thinks a concentration camp is the best way to avoid that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqtbwhJz7Fs This video demonstrates the lack of conceptual boundaries that is a trademark of Narrativism- Khashoggi was in the payroll 9f Doris to write disparaging articles about KSA. This was being done because KSA is not playing nice with the Deep state, and that's why Khashoggi was being paid to attack both KSA and Putin. (That is just the first 60 seconds, it keeps going from there.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEly_DciEPc
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Oct 23, 2018 21:59
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Pope Guilty posted:PJ, consider the word "collaborator" in place of cooperator, since it's commonly used already and carries the meaning you want. I've considered doing that but I actually have a few specific reasons for not doing so- 1.) "Collaborators" carries too much negative baggage with it in the context of our present zeitgeist , 2.) Cooperators are a normal part of any human population and are actually pretty important to a functioning society*, and 3.) a Cooperator will attack anything that threatens their status quo if the disruption actually occurs**. *the problems only begin when Cooperators control most of a society's resources. **A threat of disruption can get a cooperator to compromise with you, an actual disruption will be met with active resistance. The real problem then is when you have a scenario wherein an entrenched group of Cooperators both control most of society's resources and are insulated from having their personal status quo disrupted by their own bad decisions. Once that situation is created it will inevitably result in a severe stratification of the control of resources within society, (e.g. income inequality)with the Cooperators taking as much for themselves as they feel they can get away without destabilizing the entire system that their status quo depends upon. This stratification of wealth will create the preconditions in society that will allow marriage of ism to begin to take root, and once it's taking route enough that narrative his can provide a credible threat to the status quo of Cooperators then you have a situation wherein "Cooperators become Collaborators". Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 22:27 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 22:11
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Willie Tomg posted:near as i can tell so far, The Authoritarians is basically what PJ is trying to write, almost entirely, but with a greater emphasis on root psychology (which is general and broadly applicable) and less on the case by case particularization of rationalizations for that psychology (which change and skitter around like a drop of water on a hot griddle). Originally this discussion was using the term "Authoritarians" because at first I was kind of trying to build on Altmeyer's work. Eventually there was a consensus reached that what I was describing was sufficiently different from Altmeyer's work to warrant a new term, and that's when a goon coined the term "Narrativist". I highly recommend reading the free version of "The Authoritarians" to anyone who is following in this thread and has not already done so. it is on the whole an accident introduction to the topic, even though both I and the academic world have some critiques of Altmeyer's work. In my view Altmeyer is definitely barking up the same tree I am, but he was severely hampered by being an outsider to this psychology as well as some significant structural problems with the way he ran his simulations. For example Narrativists only operate in a group once they have recognized each other and settled on some sort of collective innrr narrative, and Altmeyer's experiments all involved a bunch of strangers coming together in a public setting for a couple of hours. This simply was not enough time for any Narrativists in the group to recognize each other and build a collective inner narrative. As a result I tend to believe his "double highs" were not some sort of specific subtype of authoritarian- but rather regular Narrativists who also happened to have some level of a cluster B personality disorder/very low empathy.
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Oct 23, 2018 22:49
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Willie Tomg posted:near as i can tell so far, The Authoritarians is basically what PJ is trying to write, almost entirely, but Just saw your edit that clarified your meaning here and I want to disagree with something. My work doesn't focus in any way shape or form on the specific rationalizations of any Narrativist individual or group. The specifics of a given inner or outer narrative are pretty much irrelevant, what really matters is the four tiered structure of the grand narrative. Inner narratives will always have precisely that four tiered structure and outer narratives will always be designed to gradually guide a non-Narrativist into adopting some form of that four-tiered belief structure. The specifics of the narratives themselves don't really matter very much. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 23:03 on Oct 23, 2018 |
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Oct 23, 2018 22:55
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ewe2 posted:What PJ is getting at is a worldview which gives rise to that behaviour which Altermeyer's classification doesn't explain very well, but is a starting point. Karen Stenner wrote The Authoritarian Dynamic, a difficult read for a non-academic but extremely carefully argued thesis that authoritarianism is an expression of a reactive worldview that cannot tolerate social diversity. She explains it more simply in this article. It's pretty much a definition of "triggered". *worldview here meaning the sum total of how various subconscious thought processes shape the way that waking consciousness is experienced by an individual.
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Oct 23, 2018 23:50
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BillClin...%3D5789%23pti33
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Oct 24, 2018 14:09
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https://mobile.twitter.com/frankgaf...genumber%3D5801 https://mobile.twitter.com/CNN/stat...genumber%3D5801 https://mobile.twitter.com/willsomm...genumber%3D5803 https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidKli...genumber%3D5803 https://mobile.twitter.com/RawStory...23post489171468 Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 18:20 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 18:06
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The Outer Narrative on this one sure came together pretty damned fast. https://mobile.twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/1055142640809897985
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Oct 24, 2018 18:25
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My money is on a Qultist as well. Everything about this smacks of a Narrativist who has incorporated a pretty substantial amount of Qanon material into their Inner Narrative. I also think there is a pretty decent chance that this will turn out to be the work of a small Narrativist group, considering the number of targets and the geographical separation between where some of the packages were either delivered or entered into the Postal system. McGlockenshire posted:
I'm pretty optimistic on that front, particularly if this turns out to be the work of a group and not just an individual. Postal inspectors are like, what the FBI fancies itself has in terms of running a ruthlessly effective bureaucratic machine. Like, given the option I'd much rather have a local prosecutor investigating me for something than a Postal Inspector investigating me for something.
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Oct 24, 2018 21:56
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:
While it's very far from being my worst character flaw- afflicting the comfortable is definitely my heroin.
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Oct 24, 2018 22:05
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Speaking of D&D there is a widespread attitude over there that a significant economic crash would be beneficial because it would result in the American public turning against Trump. (The Trump thread in particular loves cheering on any negative economic news) I Very very very strongly disagree with this notion, largely based on my experiences as a barely-employed chud during the 2008 economic crash. I believe that if there's some sort of widespread economic malaise that dramatically increases unemployment, it will not be blamed on the Republicans. (Normally the party in-charge takes credit for the economy good or ill, but that norm will not survive in the Trump era any more than any other norm has.) maybe if we had some fire breathing Democratic Leadership figures who knew how to fight a narrative or things would be different, but at present I just don't expect the mainstream media and/or democrats to successfully counter whatever narrative the chuds put out about Democrats being at fault for any economic collapse. I believe that a substantial increase in unemployment will have the result of first dramatically increasing the viciousness and prevalence of the social media culture wars- because you're going to have a bunch of unemployed people who have nothing better to do than spend all day on social media. A whole lot of these people will be either Narrativists, or people being converted to Narrativism. Secondly I believe a surge in unemployment will, after a delay of a few months, result in a dramatic increase in the amount of alt right groups and individuals appearing at violent rallies. Antifa has been extremely successful in using doxxing and the certainty of being met with resistance to keep the majority of people sympathetic to the violent alt-right from getting publicly involved. The thing about cowards is they are never in a rush to risk everything they have. The odd thing about cowards though is if a large enough group of them feels they have nothing left to lose- then a whole bunch of them can suddenly become very brave individuals. Now given these circumstances if someone involved with Antifa was to read this thread then I would offer the suggestion that it might be worthwhile to start thinking ahead at this juncture as to having some sort of prepared and coordinated response for 1.) the escalation in the social media culture wars, and then 2.) the later escalation in street-level alt-right violence. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 22:30 on Oct 24, 2018 |
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Oct 24, 2018 22:27
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BOOSness Hammocks posted:One of the bombs has what appears to be a printed-out meme with the reporter’s face and an isis flag rubberbanded to it. Given the qanon fixation on this reporter as a secret isis member and given the fact that only a boomer would print out a meme to send through the mail, this being a qanon thing looks pretty likely. It’s just missing a minions guy. I don't have it handy but there's a tweet going around that argues pretty strongly that the Isis flag is actually a "Git'R'Done" recheck parody thingy. Which if true makes this almost certainly a boomer chud.
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Oct 24, 2018 22:52
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I have no idea how this is all going to end- but if I were to be honest I would have to admit that I do not think we are presently on the path for the good ending.
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Oct 24, 2018 23:13
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General Dog posted:This is some interesting, heady stuff. At risk of sounding a bit dim, would there be any way we could get a brief glossary of terms for those of us who weren't following the old thread? When everyone is throwing around "narrativist", capital-N "Narrative", "structuralist", "cooperator", etc, it might be good if we could all grasp precisely what is meant by those terms in the context of this thread. I have a website that explains the vast majority of these terms: Prester's Perspective.
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Oct 24, 2018 23:15
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Peanut Butler posted:I slept in today, because it's been about two weeks since I've had more than 3-4 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and it felt really great. I fully agree. While normally you expect to see a fair amount of acceleration in the speed at which narratives are deployed as a consequence of the ongoing narrative convergence, I believe that a variety of corporate and political actors are currently figuring out how to use social media to both manipulate and create Narrativists. The combination of these two factors is that out of narratives are being formed very quickly. So I've decided to start going through the old thread and digging up some of the more interesting posts to help catch people up on this discussion. The following post was written on March 28th 2015, several months before Trump descended the escalator. At the time I was only thinking as far ahead as the 2016 election, but I'd argue that the basic pattern outlined in this post has held extremely true post Trump's election. At the time the term "Deep State" had not yet entered the public consciousness, but I would suggest that you replace "Federal government" with Deep State when reading the following post. (I have lightly edited the post to reflect updated terminology) Prester Jane posted:I think so, yes. At least, once I have been able to fully articulate my ideas, I think they predict trends fairly well. Let us consider for a moment "Narrative Convergence" and the Inner Narrative of several easily identified Narrativist group clusters. (Obviously there are exceptions to every group cluster, these are broad trends, not perfect descriptions of every single person involved in such groups.) I feel that once the Inner Narrative's of various groups are understood it becomes very easy to see where common ground will be found between these groups. Through the Compaction Cycle as well as the need for allies, alliances will be forged as Narrative's Converge around the outlines of the Grand Narrative.
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Oct 25, 2018 00:40
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https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/...genumber%3D5821
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Oct 25, 2018 00:46
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McGlockenshire posted:
Someone who assumes that they are a hero with an important destiny and that their actions are going to change the world- therefore they never really much contemplated what would happen if their plan either went awry or completely failed. Also pipe bombs aren't the most complicated thing in the world to construct, many years back I knew a couple of beers swilling rednecks who had a hobby of constructing pipe bombs and setting them off on their back woods property. https://mobile.twitter.com/mmfa/sta...genumber%3D5829 Dana Loesch posted:In actuality, it is this group that will be doing the intimidating. They’ll be intimidating law-abiding gun owners legally carrying their firearms by potentially sending the police after people who are doing nothing more than exercising their constitutionally protected rights. It’s a moderate, soft form of swatting. What’s astounding about this quote from Volsky is that he cites the troubling rhetoric in politics these days and then thinks the best answer to the potential for danger is to intimidate those individuals who may be carrying a weapon explicitly to protect themselves given how insane things have gotten. And by the way all of that insanity, all of the out of control anger and screaming that we’ve seen on television and at protests in this country, those weren’t law-abiding gun owners. Those were progressives, anti-gun progressives to be exact. I’m not suggesting that the political right is free of their own troublemakers but to pretend that anyone on the right has done anything close to a Bernie bro shooting up a congressional ball field or throwing boulders through someone else's window or attacking and assaulting individuals with different campaigns if they think that it isn’t unbalanced or predominately one sided, I think they need to pay better attention to the news. And if god forbid some unhinged maniac with an illegally possessed firearm were to show up at a polling location, something tells me a lot of people would be grateful that one of those law-abiding gun owners was there. It's getting really really really obvious just how blatantly fascist the NRA is becoming. Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 17:48 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 09:11
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This video is a really cool and quick little demonstration of how Narrativism is being weaponized by corporate and political actors. In particular this video shows how people like Mike Cernovich are fairly self-aware that they're manipulating a particular type of psychology; and further this video shows that Cernovich is very aware that the particular type of psychology is manipulating is not impacted by the truth but but I like how information is presented and how concepts are connected to each other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7bkyWV_PU8 edit: The video in this tweet is amazing! Mike Cernovich has not only intuited what an outer narrative is and how to use it, he also refers to it as "The Narrative". He even capitalizes the word "Narrative" like I do in a wide variety of his other videos where he is discussing this concept. https://mobile.twitter.com/vicbergeriv/status/1032004771547373573?lang=en Prester Jane has issued a correction as of 15:19 on Oct 25, 2018 |
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Oct 25, 2018 15:09
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1055270879897284608
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Oct 25, 2018 17:54
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