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If you don't want to read the pre-amble, skip to second post for a juicy story. Dear goons, as Halloween approaches I shudder to remember a few choice stories of the horrible excesses of tech startups. I do not intend to hold a monopoly on this thread - if you have stories about startups that make the show Silicon Valley seem sane or are just entertaining, feel free to share. Some 5 years ago I used to work at a small startup called HealthTap, WebMD meets Facebook sorta deal. In essence people can ask questions, and Drs answer them at no charge. For a price they can provide video consultations and even prescriptions. It seemed cool at first because there were literally people whose lives they saved by helping detect some urgent medical problems at no cost. I have met some of these people. I was young, inspired and somewhat stupid. I may still be some of these things. The management required us to work 9-8 workdays, Saturday included. At first I followed along willingly, but soon my idealism evaporated for reasons that the following stories illustrate all too clearly. The company's "save the world" message came at the cost of not just work-life balance but basic humanity. To its employees it came to be affectionately known as HealthTrap, HellTap or some other variation thereof. These are their stories. Dun dun.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:31
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Here's the most bizarre hosed up thing I ever experienced in startup world. We had a team lead named Bob. Bob led the team in India. So he kept poo poo hours and, given how 80 hour in-office work weeks were mandatory, this was starting to take effect on his health. He's tried to quit 6 times, but his manager Tiger (real name) convinced him to stay somehow, "Bob, we're saving lives!", "Bob, next release is around the corner!", "We need you Bob - you can't leave!" Too true, Tiger, too true. There came a time when Bob found a new romantic partner who took stock of Bob's work life and rightly proclaimed "What the gently caress?" and got him to quit over the weekend via an email to whole management team. Unfortunately Bob made a fatal mistake. He came in to return his laptop in person. Bad move, Bob. Can you guess what happened next? So these fuckers, Tiger, Pastry and Sauron (the latter being nicknames for other higher ups) locked poor Bob into a room while in-house company lawyer escorts his SO out. Somehow all of this is done quietly enough that the rest of us don't notice. Then Sauron and team attempt to browbeat our poor Bob into staying. Later accounts indicate phrases like "We''ll chain you to this table if we have to" being thrown around, half-jokingly. Bob's gf wants none of this poo poo and calls the cops. Bob is rescued. I decide to look for another job. All of this, btw, happened on 101 University Ave in Palo Alto, pretty much across from Stanford campus, one of the poshest areas of the Bay. Yup.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:31
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In another thread I was asked about the nicknames of the management. Pastry's title was CTO, which in practice translated to slave driver of code monkeys. His real name is Sastry. Not the most inspired nickname, but it brought a smirk now and then. Sauron on the other hand deserves his own post. Ron was the company CEO, the source of all evil in Middle-Ea... the source of all poo poo that flowed downhill to the awful management team and then regular employees. Feel free to request stories on Sauron's kool-aid and orc rebellion. History of 2nd age or the birth of Sauron. Pastry's chance for glory and safe work environment.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:42
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pokie posted:In another thread I was asked about the nicknames of the management. Pastry's title was CTO, which in practice translated to slave driver of code monkeys. His real name is Sastry. Not the most inspired nickname, but it brought a smirk now and then. Sauron on the other hand deserves his own post. Ron was the company CEO, the source of all evil in Middle-Ea... the source of all poo poo that flowed downhill to the awful management team and then regular employees. Did some of the poo poo have to do with culture mismatch because the boss was from... a particular Middle Eastern country? (Googled the company)
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Oct 29, 2018 02:45
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Did some of the poo poo have to do with culture mismatch because the boss was from... a particular Middle Eastern country? (Googled the company) It's possible, but given my experience at 7 other startups and the work history of people I got to know there, Ron's ancestry is not particularly relevant. Paraphrasing a coworker from HealthTap, "Some race horse owners treat them well: let them rest between races, coddle them in case of an injury, hire expensive veterinarians and other help. Others just race them until the drop dead with a heavy crop in constant use." Ron's approach to management followed the latter paradigm. Aside from a small core team they tended to hire fresh grads and H1B workers, i.e. people with no better frame of reference who are easier manipulate than a regular techie. Nevertheless the company saw very high turnover. I spent about 4 months there in which time 1/3rd of the workforce quit and was replaced. My sources indicate that there have been multiple new hires who only lasted a single day.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:52
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pokie posted:It's possible, but given my experience at 7 other startups and the work history of people I got to know there, Ron's ancestry is not particularly relevant. Paraphrasing a coworker from HealthTap, "Some race horse owners treat them well: let them rest between races, coddle them in case of an injury, hire expensive veterinarians and other help. Others just race them until the drop dead with a heavy crop in constant use." Ron's approach to management followed the latter paradigm. Aside from a small core team they tended to hire fresh grads and H1B workers, i.e. people with no better frame of reference who are easier manipulate than a regular techie. Nevertheless the company saw very high turnover. I spent about 4 months there in which time 1/3rd of the workforce quit and was replaced. My sources indicate that there have been multiple new hires who only lasted a single day.  That's... turnover!
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Oct 29, 2018 03:00
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Looking at Recode's stuff re his replacement by a VC guy....Yeah, uh. Somehow, his cultural background doesn't feel relevant, because he sounds like a lot of tech CEOs from all over the world. And a lot of founder-CEOs, period.
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Oct 29, 2018 03:08
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If you want to research the company further, I recommend looking into Ron's past. But an easier and funner thing to do is to sort glassdoor reviews by ascending rating (you need to register to do that, I believe): https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/HealthTap-Reviews-E453567.htm?sort.sortType=OR&sort.ascending=true Here are some titles: "This place is poop" "Culture of fear in a company for great good" "Disrespect and arrogance rule at this company" "A nightmare on university avenue"
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Oct 29, 2018 03:13
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Mostly I was curious because of cultural differences I've seen between places I worked in in Israel vs. the US. Obviously if someone's an rear end in a top hat, it's not that important what kind of cultural toolkit they draw from to implement it.
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Oct 29, 2018 03:30
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
increasing developer velocity
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Oct 29, 2018 10:54
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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pokie posted:The management required us to work 9-8 workdays, Saturday included. 9am to 8pm Monday through Saturday, or 9 8-hour shifts in a row?
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Oct 29, 2018 17:45
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Cat Army
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MightyJoe36 posted:9am to 8pm Monday through Saturday, or 9 8-hour shifts in a row? First option. When I counted, I recall working about 80 hours a week. Lack of flexibility normally associated with most startups was quite annoying. Your average slave driver only cares that you deliver on time, not how much time you spend doing it or whether you are on time for a 9am kool aid meeting.
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Oct 29, 2018 17:51
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pokie posted:If you want to research the company further, I recommend looking into Ron's past. But an easier and funner thing to do is to sort glassdoor reviews by ascending rating (you need to register to do that, I believe): I read some of them and I had a sudden burst of empathy for those who go postal in their place of work.
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Oct 30, 2018 01:02
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pokie posted:First option. When I counted, I recall working about 80 hours a week. Lack of flexibility normally associated with most startups was quite annoying. Your average slave driver only cares that you deliver on time, not how much time you spend doing it or whether you are on time for a 9am kool aid meeting. So a bog standard company that justified their long hours, lovely pay, and chaotic management by calling it a "startup."
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Oct 30, 2018 12:01
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Pastry's chance for glory and safe work environment.
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Oct 30, 2018 13:45
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pokie posted:In another thread I was asked about the nicknames of the management. Pastry's title was CTO, which in practice translated to slave driver of code monkeys. His real name is Sastry. Not the most inspired nickname, but it brought a smirk now and then. Sauron on the other hand deserves his own post. Ron was the company CEO, the source of all evil in Middle-Ea... the source of all poo poo that flowed downhill to the awful management team and then regular employees. 
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Oct 30, 2018 13:49
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Tias posted:Pastry's chance for glory and safe work environment. One evening a coworker, Bob2, had a seizure at work. One of the few bennies of working at this poo poo hole was having a Dr or two in the office. One of them took this Bob2 to the hospital. For some reason Bob2 returned to work later the same night. It must have been 9pm or so. Expected sympathies from fellow wage slaves followed. Pastry took Bob2 aside and asked him, "So... When is the project gonna get done?" This sort of asinine evil is what stood out to me about HealthTap. Regular slave drivers at least understand that there is a benefit to treating employees with a veneer of respect. This kind of callous disregard for basic human decency makes people hate you. A couple of months later Bob2 found a new employer in spite of H1B hurdles. This reminds me of another relevant story. At one point Sauron had two secretaries (executive assistants, I think is the modern term). On one sunny Californian morning Betty didn't make it to the office. This irked Sauron and he ordered Mary to call Betty and listened in on the call. Betty was suffering from food poisoning and was confined to her bed or bathroom. This might elicit natural feelings of concern or pity in a regular human being, but not in Ron. He asked Mary, "So is she sick or is she dead?" Stay tuned for more tales from the crypt.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:58
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pokie posted:Stay tuned for more tales from the crypt. Did you die?
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Nov 15, 2018 15:11
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Iron Crowned posted:Did you die? I thought the interest in the thread died. Here's another little story. HealthTap used a Skype channel for the same reasons people use Slack these days. In my time they introduced another channel just for posting when you expect to be away from your desk for more than 20 minutes. Need to take a lunch break or a big crap? Gotta post on Skype! People would often need to go re-park their cars since palo alto parking is a nightmare, and public lots have a 2 hour limit or so. Sometimes they would also take a nap in the car given the insane hours everyone's working. So yeah, gotta Skype about that, or make up some other excuse. There was a third Skype channel as well, an unofficial one dedicated to the disgruntled workforce. There were a good 20 or so ex-HT employees there with a handful of current wage slaves. Occasionally they would meet for dinner and shoot the poo poo. Unfortunately management had a spy in there, another H1B holder. I am not sure if it was he who ratted me out or one of the new hires. I made it a task for myself to take out every newbie out to lunch and air out Sauron's dirty laundry for them, going into specific incidents I witnessed as well as the rumored questionable practices at his previous startups. Eventually Pastry et al caught wind and decided to get rid of me. By then I have found another job. I will be back with some kool aid stories.
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Nov 17, 2018 01:51
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Also tell us if you are ghost posting.
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Nov 17, 2018 07:23
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Interest isn't dead, I just don't have any stories to offer and no comments beyond 
Solumin fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 18:47
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Nov 18, 2018 21:07
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Yeah man, I didn't have anything to offer and I guess most people dont either, but I enjoy reading the stories.
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Nov 18, 2018 23:30
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Please post - that Glassdoor page
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Nov 19, 2018 09:15
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One thing that was obnoxious about HealthTap aside from the odious horror show was the weekly "town hall" meeting. It's a chance for the employees to ask questions of the C-suit.... Wait, no, it's a chance for Sauron to pontificate on why Mordor is actually good. These sorts of time-waster propaganda meetings are not a rarity in the startup world, but they are usually relegated to the end of a quarter or something like that. It lets the founders tell everyone that they still have funding and beg them not to leave. At HealthTap this nonsense would take place every Friday. I was told that before my time it would start after 5pm, but eventually the young workforce rebelled, and it was moved to noon - even the lowly wage slaves gotta party sometime. So here's my gift to you, dear goons, direct quotes from Sauron's town hall meetings, preserved for posterity in a cheerful little notebook. "The most important thing is to retain people, to be there when they need us." This was said just after the initial story when Bob got locked into a room when he tried to quit. "After talking to Bob I learned how passionate all of you are." Yes, if you could call hating your job a passion. "Satan's terraforming the planet." Hmm. "Classic American dream against all odds. Create and aspirational[sic] concept." About GoPro. "Reaching low income populations" About the product. Jesus gently caress, please no. It's bad enough that this poo poo heap exists; let's not abuse the less fortunate among us with your spaghetti code. "I had an experience in Las Vegas a few days ago actually. It had to with caring and kindness. Caring and kindness is a culture." You wouldn't know what kindness was if it bit you in the rear end, Ron. I will post some more quotes next time.
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Nov 22, 2018 04:25
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Most of those make sense, in the way that soulless executive-speak does, i.e. utterly devoid of context or deeper meaning. But then you gotta drop that "Satan is terraforming the planet" one in there. Please tell me there's a story there.
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Nov 23, 2018 12:22
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Oh god these are so familiar. I also worked at a startup not too long ago (though biotech, same bullshit but a different flavor) and can throw some stories down if you'd like. I also worked with some refugees from a certain biotech startup that was featured prominently in the news not too long ago (you could say there's some Bad Blood there) and boy did they have some horror stories. One guy basically worked in the department of falsifying data ("assay development") where it was common knowledge that the results were made up and the statistics didn't matter. The prototype instrument they "worked on" was kept in a room out of the way where nobody was allowed to look at it and meanwhile all the assays were developed using instruments made by competitors. Development was slowed down for months after engineering decided to design a sample cartridge that was x by y while assay development worked on a cartridge that was y by x - and turning it sideways was not an option. The CTO (who was dating the CEO) was known to walk through the labs at 4 in the morning and immediately send out abusively worded emails asking why everyone was slacking, why is nobody working? A friend of mine got pretty much thrown out of a job interview at this place for having looked up the company's patents and asking about some of the information within, because there was so much hype around keeping everything confidential and interviewees weren't allowed to know this much. The world is a better place that this poo poo got blown wide open and is now being taken apart. It was pretty weird seeing it all on the news though, can't imagine how it must have been for those who were actually involved. They've said they're mostly just happy to be out and done with it.
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Nov 23, 2018 18:53
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take me to the beaver posted:Oh god these are so familiar. I also worked at a startup not too long ago (though biotech, same bullshit but a different flavor) and can throw some stories down if you'd like. More of this gossip please! The book was excellent...
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Nov 23, 2018 19:01
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The "town hall" meeting sounds familiar. At a previous company, the CEO was a cult-of-personality for a few others and almost importantly, himself. As sales dwindled, and no raises, he "inspired" us by informing that he'd sunk enough of his savings into the company that things had better turn around or he was going to pull the plug. A VP of either engineering or operations was attempting to give an "inspiring" talk to all of us. He ended it asking us to search deep down to find what gave us inspiration to do our very best. He pulled out a set of car keys and proudly beamed, informing us, "This is my inspiration" a set of keys to a new car he had just purchased. Cheesus fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 19:04
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tentish klown posted:More of this gossip please! The book was excellent... I actually haven't read it! I'm waiting for it not to feel weird  I can go a bit more in depth about the interview my friend had there though, he said it was the weirdest interview of his life. First they led him into a maze of a building that seemed to be designed to confuse and disorient people (this was confirmed by the handful of people I know who worked there, the building was designed to keep people from different departments from interacting and basically stop people from comparing notes to see what didn't add up) to a room that was isolated and nondescript. Then he had a number of interviewers who seemed to be purposely chosen to either not be technical people or were not allowed to say anything remotely technical. At this point, he had decided that he definitely didn't want to work here, but he was curious as to how far down the rabbithole would go. They asked him super vague questions for, again, a technical role, then when they asked whether he had any questions he said, "so I read a couple of your patents, and I had a question about how this one works." The person he was interviewing with blanched and left the room, only to come back in a few minutes and say that they couldn't talk about it. Later when he heard more from the people that we knew who worked there he realized just how much of a loving bullet he dodged by doing some research before coming in to the interview. We actually hired someone partially on the basis that she had interviewed there but the CEO hadn't liked her so she didn't get hired. That's right, the CEO had to interview and approve every single hire. The person who recommended her remembered interviewing her while working at this company, and said "well, [CEO] didn't like her, so she must have been very competent." This method seems to have worked because she remains one of my favorite coworkers. Another person I know was contacted by the journalist who blew up the whole case before he had contacted the guy who would eventually be the whistleblower, but they didn't feel comfortable saying anything at the time. Shortly thereafter my friend realized they were being followed by what turned out to be a private investigator, so they were glad to not be the one to shoulder the blowback from being the first one to talk to the press. Some time after that the FBI visited their house, but I guess by then there were enough other people also talking that they didn't need to compel them into any sort of interview. I heard the guy who talked in the first place had to deal with a mountain of poo poo (he certainly deleted his social media accounts and dropped off everyone's radar for a year or two only to pop up at parties with a thousand yard stare), so I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to be the one to deal with it. What a shitshow. take me to the beaver fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 23, 2018 |
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Nov 23, 2018 19:24
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Solumin posted:Most of those make sense, in the way that soulless executive-speak does, i.e. utterly devoid of context or deeper meaning. Yeah, it's just that at most startups they would cut to the chase, say a few self-congratulatory things, provide some thin evidence of success, and move on to exploiting the workforce. At HealthTap it was weekly hour-long monologues. Alas the meaning of Satan will remain shrouded in mystery. I'll try to remember to ask an ex-colleague to see if they remember. take me to the beaver posted:Oh god these are so familiar. I also worked at a startup not too long ago (though biotech, same bullshit but a different flavor) and can throw some stories down if you'd like. Absolutely, please do! My well is just about dry.
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Nov 23, 2018 20:06
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We also had a guy we'd call Lucifer ("Lucy"). The co-founder of the company, Lucy was an ideas guy. He always had some ideas. Always. These ideas often had no basis in reality, and were instead based on whatever someone technical made the mistake of saying to him when cornered, upon which Lucy would be up and going. Lucy had two volumes: shouting and conspiratorial whisper. At one point he decided that, since we were expressing some of our molecular motors in E. coli, we were "growing nanomachines in poop!" He decided to shout this to a group of investors that were getting a tour through the lab and I have never seen a man's face fall so fast. Lucy often got bored waiting for us to run what was going on in his mind (and god forbid you should run any controls or get any statistically significant data), so he would often ssh into experiments while they were running and change parameters/issue commands without informing anyone in lab. We usually found this out by watching some commands come up on the terminal that we did not issue. He'd "joke" about putting in cameras so that he could better track what we were running and make sure we were running exactly what he wanted. We decided that if he ever put in cameras we'd put them behind the shoulder of the dude who liked to look at hardcore gay porn at work. Lucy also once came in with pinkeye and joked that nobody better use the microscope after him. His main underling then got pinkeye  Somewhat understandable that he came in though, we all got 8 vacation days a year that also doubled as sick days and holidays. HR was nonexistent (see dude looking at porn at work, and making sure we knew he was looking at porn at work), and shortly after I joined we got a talk that amounted to 'sexual harassment is only a problem if anyone complains, so never complain.' I probably saw every single other woman in the company (all four of them) crying in the bathroom at some point over the first couple years due to the rampant casual sexism, but as far as I know only dudes were the target of serious sexual harassment while I worked there and only after hours on the several nights a week everyone would go out drinking. It was extremely cliquey and hard to break into (especially because, as someone with a family history of alcoholism, I didn't drink at the time nor did I really want to explain this to people I'd only just met), but when the company is less than two dozen people it becomes pretty important to be a "cultural fit". A lot of this toxic bullshit disappeared after we got acquired by a company with real HR, but unfortunately so did a lot of the fun stuff that goes on in a tiny company. I certainly don't mind actually getting sick days now, though.
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Nov 23, 2018 20:55
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Possible all too common but: I worked for an emerging technologies company some years back. They actually had a good product, got past the startup years, and it was the usual: food machines in the corridor, sexy offices, pool table, massages at your desk, regular "retreats" at resorts and holiday destinations. It was sweet. We got ourselves a CEO for the usual reasons: the markets "demanded" a veteran, so founders stepped aside for some acclaimed genius. I never saw or heard from the CEO in person, only ever saw him on the news, talking how his amazing strategy had "saved" the company and we were going to the moon. Company meetings rapidly began fellation sessions: they'd show the stock price and we'd cheer the CEO, they'd show "amusing" films with things like the CEOs head superimposed on Jesus, the CEO as a barbarian warrior defeating a dragon. The room would reel with laughter. They'd serve cake on the CEOs birthday and buy him a present to thank him. It was weird. Then the stock price tanked. In 3 months, the CEO took a golden handshake and vanished off to another company. In 6 months they starting laying people off. I exited, but the shell of the company tottered on for years until it was bought out. Years later, I looked the CEO up on LinkedIn. He was just a guy, who's headed up a bunch of companies, some of which succeeded, most not.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:10
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One of the ones I worked for was going quite well, decent market share and making money. Founders decided it was time to bring on another C level and landed someone who had previously been a C level at a unicorn. Turns out there was a reason why he's no longer a C level for such a calibre company and it's not because he loves to work in fast paced startup world. It's because he's always drunk and creeping on women. At least he got memory holed.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:32
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Loving these... looking forward to more!
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Nov 23, 2018 22:34
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fart
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Nov 25, 2018 05:26
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Nov 26, 2018 11:49
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pokie posted:The management required us to work 9-8 workdays, Saturday included. At first I followed along willingly, but soon my idealism evaporated for reasons that the following stories illustrate all too clearly. The company's "save the world" message came at the cost of not just work-life balance but basic humanity. To its employees it came to be affectionately known as HealthTrap, HellTap or some other variation thereof. These are their stories. Dun dun.  Honestly, I'm staggered that people wouldn't look at those hours and just go "gently caress right off with this poo poo". I could see that maybe, maybe being appropriate during a massive crisis like "all the servers imploded and nobody knows what the gently caress", but as regular planned hours that is just insane. As in, this would be literally illegal where I live.
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Nov 26, 2018 12:33
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Perestroika posted:
Some people, especially young graduates in their first job, are in love with the idea of their job. Hey, I' working for a startup. Hey, I'm working for a Big Name company or bank. Hey, I develop video games. They'll put up with a lot just to be able to say that. Especially if they don't know any better.
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Nov 27, 2018 17:44
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nonathlon posted:Some people, especially young graduates in their first job, are in love with the idea of their job. Hey, I' working for a startup. Hey, I'm working for a Big Name company or bank. Hey, I develop video games. They'll put up with a lot just to be able to say that. Especially if they don't know any better. And then there are the bootlicking tryhards that never get over that poo poo. They'll spend their time endlessly monitoring their coworkers for suspected "infractions" and "pass their concerns on" to their management.
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Nov 27, 2018 18:35
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