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PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Missouri was dominated by red candidates and progressive ballot initiative wins like minimum wage. It's got me wondering how far we can push it. Like, what if we push a ballot proposition to A) levy a marginal income tax and B) fund a minimum income with the proceeds? Would rural voters go for it?

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PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

The Glumslinger posted:

Dems should be pushing for non-partisan redistricting to be on the ballot in as many states as possible in 2020

Also early voting, voting for felons, location and capacity rules for voting precincts, etc.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Badger of Basra posted:

I think Sean McElwee said this but the left would probably get a lot more seats primarying people in safe D seats than reaching for swing states. It sucks though that a couple of the better places to do this (CA, WA) use top two so you’d be vulnerable to Republicans deciding to vote for the relatively more conservative incumbent.

Ocasio Cortez, Tlaib, and Omar are a better model than Garcia.

I think it's also a good idea to run socialists in deep red seats because, like, why not gamble? Electability isn't a concern there, either, so take the opportunity for some real life conservative crossover focus testing.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
My hot take is that different places like different candidates sometimes. And Florida is racist.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Lightning Knight posted:

It's almost like the entire theory behind "have red state Democrats tack right on social issues and throw marginalized people under the bus" is viscerally morally insulting and also as of the 2018 midterms usually doesn't loving work.

Are there any theories that did work in red states, aside from ones like "run against a pedophile?"

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Lightning Knight posted:

Progressives and socialists won office in the Virginia legislature in 2017.

Did they win any rural districts?

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Lightning Knight posted:

It's difficult to tell since there's not a lot of information available from cursory Google searches given that I don't exactly know where to live, but they seem to be suburban and not heavily populated.

This is all an academic exercise, we all know where this discussion goes, which is debating the merits of having poo poo Democrats who will vote like Joe Manchin and hoping they're willing to pass watered down, useless versions of whatever we want to pass, while global warming barrels towards us unabated.

I was just wondering if any modern progressives have found a winning strategy for more rural districts. The closest I can think of is Bernie in Vermont.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

evilweasel posted:

Brown and Tester won and I would be very interested in understanding how, since they’re pretty ideal for red state senators.

Tester seems to benefit from a state with elastic voters, so that may not translate. Brown, I don't know. His margin looks like it improved compared to Hillary in 2016 by about 14 points, compared to say Mckaskill who improved by 12 and lost. So maybe he just benefited from a relatively blue state and a favorable environment.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Finally, someone in Missouri gets serious about guns.

Missouri lawmaker introduces bill mandating gun ownership.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

friendbot2000 posted:

In short, if you are white, be a bro and put your body between a cop and a minority. It is the worst loving superpower to have, but it can save lives.

I guess I should look up a legal hotline or something to keep in my wallet.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Ego-bot posted:

Didn't Missouri reverse their law via referendum in 2018?

The Missouri law didn't take effect before repeal, so it was never a right to work state.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

mandatory lesbian posted:

Replacing mitch McConnell with Mitch McConnell but female doesn't really seem like a winning move, imo

Mitch but voting for Dem majority leader would be a significant improvement over the status quo. On whether that's the best improvement we dare hope for, I'll defer to local Kentucky residents.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

karthun posted:

Its almost as if Democrats get a bunch of stuff done when they have power.

I hope somebody packages all this up as model legislation for other state Democrats to run with or run on.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
I think Sanders 2016 showed that a principled outsider campaign can catch fire. It's worth a shot, I mean why not? Maybe he'll catch on, maybe he'll pull the field left. What's the problem?

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

Again, the order of votes allows deliberation and vote trading. An item being later in the docket gives its supporters more leverage through earlier votes. This is what legislative deliberation is. We can't prove the bill would've passed because Carter sabotaged it.

We are pissed about Carter because, yes, him doing this was loving insane, burned his remaining bridges, and has no sensical explanation other than self-promotion to people who don't understand how the legislature works.

This doesn't really make any sense to me. If you're debating a bill about which district gets the money and jobs for a new government building or power plant or something, then sure, you need to do some horse-trading. But RTW is strictly about the power relationship between union workers and the wealthy, so the only reason you would need to be persuaded is that you naturally lean toward screwing workers for the wealthy. It seems ridiculous to look at this situation, where the majority of Democrats need to be pulled over to the side of supporting workers, and say that Lee Carter deserves all the blame for not persuading them correctly. Even if you think he muffed the tactics.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Are Virginia Democrats in a position to throw away unions so easily? Is union membership that low in VA? Even MO was able to repeal RTW. I'm surprised VA dems are so willing to tell unions "support us and we'll pass your bill, not like last time when Lee was mean to us or the time before when we thought we might have to pay workers more."

axeil posted:

For the people still trying to argue Lee is innocent in all this:

why do you do this without even informing the co-sponsors of your bill?
Maybe he thinks the cosponsors are narcs or wouldn't go along with it? Maybe he thought it was necessary to put Democrats on the spot, so they wouldn't have time to come up with a more presentable counter than just saying "no to unions". If you're convinced the balance of Democrats aren't persuadable backstage, that seems like a reasonable conclusion. Maybe he was convinced that, when push comes to shove, Democrats would publicly support unions.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

axeil posted:

Given that the unions have all come out in opposition to Carter your framing here is disingenuous.

I'm not sure how meaningful it is to come out against a gamble that already didn't pay off.

Discendo Vox posted:

The parliamentary maneuver destroyed the capacity for anyone to perform normal legislative deliberation on the bill.

I shouldn't have to tell you this but twitter isn't the state legislature.
Why even call yourself a Democrat if you need to be persuaded to support unions over ownership?

PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 19, 2021

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

evilweasel posted:

you asked for evidence of him being lovely to fellow va democrats, you got the t, and in a repeat of your posting throughout this thread just said “no not that, if I believed that I might have to admit I was wrong so I’m just not going to believe it”

but anyone else reading it can see the evidence and draw their own conclusion

I see a bunch of tweets of him complaining that certain fellow VA dems are poo poo, and replies saying nuh-uh. If there's something more specific here that I should be mad about then please highlight it.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

evilweasel posted:

that is a giant honkin red flag. why the gently caress is carter suddenly interjecting his ex-wife into that conversation.

Assuming the ex-wife is the alleged abuser, the why is explicitly stated in the tweet.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Owlspiracy posted:

this is crazy to type, but in terms of big ticket items there just not that much left to push for - its just expanding a lot of whats already there (i.e. increasing school funding, but the fight of "do we even fund schools" has already been won)

Does Virginia have card check?

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

evilweasel posted:

the same evidence from the last time you personally discussed this in the thread (I found it by using the "?" under your post). here:

https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1356433106559991809

his ex-wife told the local DSA he abused her. he responded by saying no u.

now you may choose to believe carter over his ex-wife but don't play dumb about it

Isn't evidence supposed to convey your side of the story?

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PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
I'm surprised blue Virginia can't repeal RTW when a voter supermajority in red Missouri repealed it by referendum.

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