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Yes, they are almost certainly going to try to draft and pass a RTW repeal next year without Lee making GBS threads it up. In many states, bills usually get reintroduced year over year to build a supporting coalition, complete drafting and wait for a political moment. This political moment, though, a blue wave within a blue wave in which a whole raft of other progressive items passed, was wasted.
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Feb 19, 2021 19:54
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Aruan posted:...are you seriously asking "why can't you predict what will happen with certain clarity"? no I just think it's weird that you're so certain all these cosponsors were totally committed and got undermined at the last second, but also aren't confident they'll even bother to try again I don't have your mindreading powers so I'm not clear on the limitations
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Feb 19, 2021 19:54
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It's not mindreading powers, it's basic common sense. We do not claim to be able to predict how the political landscape of VA will change.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:03
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I guess for me one thing follows from the other If it's true that all the cosponsors were working hard to get this to pass, and were forced to vote against it in committee because of procedural slapfighting, then it should naturally follow that those cosponsors would get rid of the guy who undermined them and continue to fight for it. If we're not sure whether they'll even bother then how confident are we really that they bear no responsibility for it failing repeatedly?
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Feb 19, 2021 20:09
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Lol good old SA where the DSA and unions are just more shitlibs (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2021 00:51
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Personally, I'm hoping that after the past two General Assembly sessions, which have both been extended via the governor calling special sessions because it turns out you can't legislate your way through a pandemic in less than six weeks, the GA seriously looks at transitioning towards becoming a full time legislature. Half-assing it worked for slaveholding plantation owners and modern Republicans opposed to the very idea of governance, but it absolutely does not work for any version of actually trying to govern.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:13
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Is Lee the only VA gubernatorial candidate with a unionized campaign staff? yes Which Virginia unions are against Carter? Have they made public statements about him or his actions because I am having a hard time trying to find them. I'm having just as hard a time finding anything about right to work on any of the other VA governor candidate's websites. It doesn't seem to be a priority for them or at least an issue they want to highlight. I don't think Lee will win the governor's race. I think he wants to make it to the debates and get our future governor on the record about ending right to work in Virginia. That is the goal. This should be at minimum what VA unions should demand of the candidates for their union's support in the primary. Abolishing right to work is already part of the VA Dem platform and for the second straight year the repeal has gone nowhere, thanks to being buried in committee both last year and this year by VA Democratic leadership. Lee's actions have shown unions that at least 42 VA House of Delegate Democrats do not support ending Right to Work. That is on the record. I want unions to hold them accountable for that vote. I want all four other Democratic candidates for governor on the record as well (and lieutenant governor candidates) and I want unions to hold them accountable as well.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:58
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You're trying really hard to whatabout this.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:03
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Yeah really whatabouting *checks notes* the issue we've been talking about for pages now.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:20
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What's more insane is people arguing and ignoring the people that actively have been involved with the campaigns in va, and that have been pushing for some of the exact changes discussed in this thread. It's absolutely insane how we keep going in circles with arguments from someone that refuses to listen to direct loving testimony from people that worked for someone's reelection and for the exact bill, and how pissed they are with what occured. All because twitter said that dems suck. This thread is a microcosm of the stupidity of twitter and the terminal left who like the far right refuse to understand basic loving sense and that things are not as simple in real life as a 120 character tweet indicate.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:02
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I don't think you actually comprehend the nature of the disagreement, resulting in this visceral reaction to it happening in this thread. Aruan, do you have any actual examples of this "Lee Carter being lovely to his fellow VA Democras on Twitter" you've been pounding on about? Because so far you've cited people abusing him and his pinned tweet, which is pretty standard primary fare. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 06:01
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Harold Fjord posted:I don't think you actually comprehend the nature of the disagreement, resulting in this visceral reaction to it happening in this thread. yes tons were posted in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=46#post512621361
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Feb 20, 2021 16:11
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evilweasel posted:yes tons were posted in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=46#post512621361 Those are mostly screenshots of people abusing him and mocking his family https://twitter.com/The_Mathgician/status/1356441161200775168 idk if those people are representing the local org, but if they are it seems like there's some problems with the org, even if he does suck how is any of that justified VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 16:19
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evilweasel posted:yes tons were posted in this post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=46#post512621361 It's like you don't read things and just pick a group to believe, whatever they say. Because there's no actual evidence posted of the repeated claim or anything to suggest that it's gone beyond what is perfectly normal for a primary.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:23
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VitalSigns posted:Those are mostly screenshots of people abusing him and mocking his family you know people can read, right? why would you try to lie about what anyone can read, right there?
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Feb 20, 2021 16:27
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VitalSigns posted:Those are mostly screenshots of people abusing him and mocking his family you left out the best one, baka gaijin https://twitter.com/ChillStableGuy/status/1356441342608613376?s=20
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Feb 20, 2021 16:29
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evilweasel posted:you know people can read, right? why would you try to lie about what anyone can read, right there? so you can't justify the screenshots in the post you linked asserting the guy being abused in it is bad, got it
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Feb 20, 2021 16:31
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Harold Fjord posted:It's like you don't read things and just pick a group to believe, whatever they say. Because there's no actual evidence posted of the repeated claim or anything to suggest that it's gone beyond what is perfectly normal for a primary. you asked for evidence of him being lovely to fellow va democrats, you got the t, and in a repeat of your posting throughout this thread just said “no not that, if I believed that I might have to admit I was wrong so I’m just not going to believe it” but anyone else reading it can see the evidence and draw their own conclusion
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Feb 20, 2021 16:32
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evilweasel posted:you know people can read, right? why would you try to lie about what anyone can read, right there? Feel free to share more or quote actual posts instead of repeatedly claiming they've been posted when we've been reading the thread and they haven't.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:32
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evilweasel posted:you asked for evidence of him being lovely to fellow va democrats, you got the t, and in a repeat of your posting throughout this thread just said “no not that, if I believed that I might have to admit I was wrong so I’m just not going to believe it” why don't you actually quote the parts of the post you linked that you think show him being lovely and toxic because I clicked through and the shittiest toxic things in there were things posted by other people at him, and then I quoted the thing you linked and you insisted the stuff I quoted was somehow a lie even though it was straight from your source
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Feb 20, 2021 16:34
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evilweasel posted:you asked for evidence of him being lovely to fellow va democrats, you got the t, and in a repeat of your posting throughout this thread just said “no not that, if I believed that I might have to admit I was wrong so I’m just not going to believe it” I see a bunch of tweets of him complaining that certain fellow VA dems are poo poo, and replies saying nuh-uh. If there's something more specific here that I should be mad about then please highlight it.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:37
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VitalSigns posted:why don't you actually quote the parts of the post you linked that you think show him being lovely and toxic because I clicked through and the shittiest toxic things in there were things posted by other people at him, and then I quoted the thing you linked and you insisted the stuff I quoted was somehow a lie even though it was straight from your source there are four tweets of carter being a poo poo to the local DSA for poo poo he's apparently factually wrong about, the exact sort of stuff asked for in the fifth carter taking no lessons from those whatsoever and instead choosing to deflect that by posting screenshots of some people taking some relatively mild shots at him, people using language (mocking the rose caucus) that at least implies they're not part of the DSA that carter is trying to blame for their behavior (i'm not going to bother trying to doxx the people involved to check) all of that is readily apparent to anyone reading the post and for some reason you oddly assume nobody will be able to read
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Feb 20, 2021 16:40
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PerniciousKnid posted:I see a bunch of tweets of him complaining that certain fellow VA dems are poo poo, and replies saying nuh-uh. If there's something more specific here that I should be mad about then please highlight it. yeah that's funny too like he lists some problems he has with the metro DC org, which ok twitter isn't the place for that, if it's even accurate which it may not be, but how is the response anything but 50 times as childish and absurd Yeah going by this I definitely think the apparent DSA co-chair posting a gently caress-off meme is the mature adult in the room here I feel like the post only makes sense if you've already decided who the bad guy is before you read it and you go in with that lens where the people posting dumb memes are the smart and cool ones because they're owning the bad guy VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 16:42
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on an unrelated note, reading that thread, it is a pretty big fuckin' red flag for me that a guy is claiming that all of people's criticism is actually his ex-wife's fault like look at this: https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1356433106559991809 carter tweets out some poo poo; someone makes three very polite responses, saying (a) your claim is factually untrue; (b) we have disagreements with the other DSA, but we are all trying to work it out collectively; and (c) here's what we're trying to do, you haven't been helping with that lee carter's answer to these three polite responses that have zero to do with him personally, and attack him only to the extent they say he is not assisting with what they're trying to do, is "this is all my ex-wife's fault" that is a giant honkin red flag. why the gently caress is carter suddenly interjecting his ex-wife into that conversation.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:45
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"it's all her fault" is your own editorialization. I'm not getting that from the tweet at all, it's peripheral. But you've decided he's the bad guy. As for why, she related to the smears. That's the concern and main thrust. Why bring up DSA smearing him when talking about his issues with DSA. A real thinker
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Feb 20, 2021 16:52
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Harold Fjord posted:"it's all her fault" is your own editorialization. I'm not getting that from the tweet at all, it's peripheral. But you've decided he's the bad guy. come on, try to come up with any justification for him interjecting his ex-wife in that convo
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Feb 20, 2021 16:53
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Just going by how Lee Carter has voluntarily elected to present himself online, I'm getting massive Taintrunner vibes from this poo poo tbh. Fortunately RTW repeal is bigger than he is, so his inevitable outing as some sort of misogynist/abuser/sex pest won't put a dent on it if only because absolutely no credible progressive orgqnization wants anything to do with him anymore. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2021 17:18
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evilweasel posted:there are four tweets of carter being a poo poo to the local DSA for poo poo he's apparently factually wrong about, the exact sort of stuff asked for like if that offends you, you should watch the Democratic primary debates, it'll blow your mind: Kamala Harris called Biden a racist and segregationist, Cory Booker suggested Biden was high and couldn't remember his own words, Kirsten Gillibrand suggested the Oval Office would need to be cloroxed because the president occupying it was so gross, Elizabeth Warren brought up Bloomberg's personal life out of nowhere, red flags galore apparently evilweasel posted:in the fifth carter taking no lessons from those whatsoever and instead choosing to deflect that by posting screenshots of some people taking some relatively mild shots at him, people using language (mocking the rose caucus) that at least implies they're not part of the DSA that carter is trying to blame for their behavior (i'm not going to bother trying to doxx the people involved to check) luckily Axeil included their twitter handles so it's easy to check whether your assumption that none of the people screenshotted or posted are DSA members is correct or not because some of them have their DSA membership right in their bios that said the people listing their membership weren't posting the worst ones so who knows evilweasel posted:come on, try to come up with any justification for him interjecting his ex-wife in that convo feels like an easy way to resolve this would be to find out whether that happened or not, rather than picking a side in advance based on whose politics you like more
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Feb 20, 2021 17:18
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VitalSigns posted:because according to him they slandered him based on false things she told them I feel like this is not how this conversation would go in any other context
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Feb 20, 2021 17:42
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Feb 20, 2021 17:49
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evilweasel posted:that is a giant honkin red flag. why the gently caress is carter suddenly interjecting his ex-wife into that conversation. Assuming the ex-wife is the alleged abuser, the why is explicitly stated in the tweet.
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Feb 20, 2021 17:56
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some interesting stuff on Lee's twitter tho https://twitter.com/MichaelLeePope/status/1361425325947834369 What's the justification for this, did Lee do another rude motion to force the Virginia senate to protect bosses' right to retaliate against workers for filing workers' comp Did he drink the last of the coffee at the office and not start another jug and this was the only way to punish him?
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Feb 20, 2021 18:03
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I'm noticing that this stuff between Lee and the DSA doesn't seem to be actually related to this procedural motion issue it's being tied to. Unless it's just to establish he can be a jerk sometimes, which I don't think anyone disputed even while saying this doesn't seem particularly jerky.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:34
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are you trolling - that’s what we’ve all been saying - that when you’re a jerk online it makes it hard to whip support for your bills, and that the same things that lead him to Never Stop Posting also lead him to do things like trash his caucus online, do weird procedural bullshit, and undertake a doomed vanity run for governor where he spends 50% of the time insulting his primary opponents. it doesn’t matter if he’s ideologically pure or the rest of the party else are just too centrist, what literally everyone is saying is that it’s lovely that instead of trying to work within the party to get support - something that is very possible considering the level of politics (part time) and the moment in VA history (seemingly open to every serious progressive idea) - he has decided to Post Through and be an rear end in a top hat. the inability for some people to recognize that personal relationships and dynamics are quite important, even when in a perfect world nobody would care how much of an rear end in a top hat you are as long as your ideas are good, is truly bizarre. he acts like an angry SA poster and nobody wants to deal with his poo poo, which sucks because it means his legislative agenda is DOA. again, we do not live in a perfect world, and I would hope any elected official would be smart enough to realize that if you talk poo poo about someone they are not going to support you, and the people who pay the real price are your constituents. sometimes being right is less important than accomplishing things.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:52
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we literally have someone posting in the thread saying “I was going door to door canvassing for him and because he wouldnt shut the gently caress up while drunk on Twitter my job was much, much harder and now after his latest vanity bullshit I’m done fighting for him”
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Feb 20, 2021 18:54
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I'm willing to believe he's a jerk online, it's questionable whether that's why Democrats voted for RTW though when there are other explanations that make more sense (like they voted for it because they support Right To Work, which is also why they killed it last year too), and the evidence presented that he's so toxic everyone else was forced to side with business interests via the sheer power of his posting is pretty underwhelming. Those tweets weren't even as juicy as the tepid burns our geriatric Democratic primary contenders lobbed at each other on ABC.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:01
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Aruan posted:he treats the rest of the party as enemies instead of allies, Aruan posted:his entire campaign for governor is 'look at all these garbage lying democrats' which makes it very hard to then turn to those people you are explicitly and pointedly calling out as lying hacks, frauds and corporate shills and say 'hey can you support my bill.' Aruan posted:he openly dogs his coworkers. To be clear, you've references his pinned tweet, but it doesn't seem toxic. It's a primary, he's running against other members of his party. That's how it works
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Feb 20, 2021 19:03
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VitalSigns posted:I'm willing to believe he's a jerk online, it's questionable whether that's why Democrats voted for RTW though when there are other explanations that make more sense (like they voted for it because they support Right To Work, which is also why they killed it last year too), and the evidence presented that he's so toxic everyone else was forced to side with business interests via the sheer power of his posting is pretty underwhelming. Those tweets weren't even as juicy as the tepid burns our geriatric Democratic primary contenders lobbed at each other on ABC. lee carter is a goon in the well. i like lee carter - he has great ideas, fights for things i agree with. but he can't stop pissing in the loving well. its like he posted an e/n thread and asked 'should i keep posting on twitter?' and someone said, no lee, and his response was 'not only am i going to keep posting, im going to get drunk and tweet out all my skeletons!'
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Feb 20, 2021 19:05
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Aruan posted:
theory: some people itt are so committed to defending him because they recognize themselves in his angry posting and don't like the behavior being called out. Posting can't be Praxis if doing it ends up destroying your ability to accomplish things. This cuts deep at the people who think shitposting on the internet and being jerks to your enemies all day is actually doing political activism.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:20
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axeil posted:theory: some people itt are so committed to defending him because they recognize themselves in his angry posting and don't like the behavior being called out. Half the time it's not even at enemies, it's at ostensible allies.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:23
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