Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury - remember to spay and neuter your offspring!

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Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Okay, so I tried getting into this again, and there's something I'm having a lot of trouble with: Claims.

I read the CKII wiki and several let's plays and a tutorial, but it's still just kind of black magic to me.

Like, I get that liege -> vassal and King -> duke -> earl/count, and the difference between strong, weak and de jure (though the last is fuzzy). Playing it through doesn't help, because I can't really see what claims are where and how it affects my relationship with various vassals and other folks, meaning that I'm suddenly all out of vassals or my council gets themselves killed or jump ship before I can really react to it :confused:

It's really frustrating, as I'm having a lot of fun with the events, I just can't seem to hold a realm of any size together, and playing as a vassal I get screwed too.

Any help or directions to easily understood guides would be appreciated, tia!

# ¿ Jan 10, 2020 21:32

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 03:06

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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luxury handset posted:

..where your realm implodes is that you don't have legal aka de jure title over any of your vassals, or you've got gavelkind succession which is the brave spears-knocking-shields variety of title inheritance which is expected to turn into a giant mess on ruler death

I just wanted to say thanks for this, you actually explained it in a way I finally understood. New question:

I want to declare war on a dude, and I have both CB, no agression pact and the general wherewithal, but the dropdown menu has a red x saying ''[target] is independent". What exactly does this mean? I got it a couple of times on guys where I realized that they had lieges, and to press my de jure claim I had to fight their liege for it (I think, I was able to declare on the lieges anyway).

E: also, it seems raiding and looting off the bat is really hard without ships, how do I create those?

Tias fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 15, 2020

# ¿ Jan 15, 2020 12:12

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Neurion posted:

External wars can only be declared against the top liege of a realm, as they are the one responsible for protecting said realm.

In order to raise ships you need to have coastal counties with castles, cities, or temples that have shipyards built. I forget the hotkey for raising ship levies from a county/vassal, but I think it's C. Ships raised from your demesne have a significant maintenance cost, unless you follow a seafaring religion or culture. Ships owned by your vassals do not cost you gold, but your vassals will grow upset if you keep them raised long... that is until you get some loot into them, then the opinion malus will decay as if the ships weren't raised.

I got it. I have to fight the lieges - I still seem to get my rear end kicked every time I try though, only gobbling up the tiny neighbours without defensive pacts.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2020 13:42

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I really suck at taking care of my vassals so they'll give me enough men. Apart from gold (which I start with precious little of) and honorary titles and lands, what can I do to make them happier?

# ¿ Jan 15, 2020 20:04

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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et me?

E: is there anywhere the names of achievements are explained? Stuff like 'I'm Sorry, Desiderata' and 'On English Neck a Norman Yoke' seem like they have a historical source. (like, I know William became king of England, but where's the sentence from?)

Tias fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jan 18, 2020

# ¿ Jan 18, 2020 10:34

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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yes, good, chucklefucks, I loving understand the Dwarf Fortress and Norse-East ones :psydwarf:

Thanks for the answers!

Which DLC are the best ones to get for a new player?

# ¿ Jan 18, 2020 17:49

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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No idea about CK2 but in real life his kids took the majority of holdings.

What does the "wrong type of holding in demesne" alert mean, and how do I make it go away? I assume it's because I'm too high status and just took over a single county, but I have no one to give it to right away.

E: even if I give new lands to my vassals, the territories have a "wrong holder" debuff. What am I doing wrong?

Tias fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jan 19, 2020

# ¿ Jan 19, 2020 12:53

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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TITY BOI posted:

Are you tribal and is the new holding feudal?

Extremely likely, though I'm not sure. It's a starting run in 968 with H�steinn who's a norse pagan, so almost certainly also tribal. How do I fix the holding issue then?

E: wiki suggests I hold them and eat the debuffs while I prepare to feudalize - that seems like a rather long slog.

E E: And giving them to my courtiers also mean those leave my court, throwing away their competence in my titled council positions they have. How do I keep them and give them lands at the same time :confused:

Tias fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jan 19, 2020

# ¿ Jan 19, 2020 13:23

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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luxury handset posted:

some government types penalize you for holding the wrong kind of title. a feudal lord, for example, is not supposed to hold a bishopric as well (a temple)

if you don't want to pass the title off to a courtier, but you also want to get rid of it aka pass it to just some random guy, go to the holding itself. there should be a button which will randomly generate an appropriate vassal to take the title

you can't keep someone in your court and title them at the same time. your court is the collection of random idiots who are kicking around your castle with nothing better to do. handing people lovely titles is a good way to get rid of them, like, if you have an otherwise useless low stat daughter, matri-marry her to some rando sitting in the corner and give that guy a title. they can gently caress off and make more dynasts for a while and you can ignore them until maybe someone useful is generated from the union

of course, you can always land someone cool and keep them in your council, if you make space for them

This is starting to dawn on me, but thanks for spelling it out! This game is kinda hard to penetrate when I'm used to 'normal' grand strategy.

So, you're saying that I can just create vassals or marry girls off to dudes who will then accept being my vassals, and then it will hopefully stay in the family? Or what?

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 10:41

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Sure, but you also want to have a healthy dude to play once your current incarnation kicks it, and preferably one who already owns a bunch of land, right?

On that note, do I also have to vassalize my sons if I land them titles, or are they automatically loyal? I have a feeling the answer is no..

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 11:04

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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BBJoey posted:

It�s not difficult to play CK2 efficiently but

I've yet to even figure out how to make my court not empty itself at random and not get beaten up by a jobber shithead count neighbour, so please educate me!

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 14:10

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I.. don't know? How big a deal is .8 a month? I think I just see the pop-up reminding me I have unlanded sons and think I need to fix it :confused:

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 19:29

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Did my first succesful king run, trounced whoever owned the rest of Norway and now Harald Fairhair can, uh, cut his hair :black101:

Two problems: My kingdom runs on agnatic-cognatic gavelkind, my other titles on successive gavelkind, I got 'lose titles on succession' alerts cropping up, and I'm getting old and infirm. How do I secure stuff holding together when I kick it?

(I don't have holy fury, so I can't reform paganism)

# ¿ Jan 23, 2020 15:48

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Eh, I ain't even mad. They will know the power of my sword!

# ¿ Jan 23, 2020 18:05

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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poo poo poo poo, early in my reign a faction wanted to repeal low tribal obligation back to minimal, and the really powerful leader dodged all my assassinations so I caved. Now I can't change any laws in several years, and am unable to revoke titles :eng99:

upgunned shitpost posted:

you can also build up a tribal holding as the top level building on a feudal county. really good source for heavy infantry while you're still taking advantage of tribal mechanics, like settling. you can always upgrade later.

send in the steward, stay viking. don't let your kids turn into useless normans!

What good is settling? Upping loyalty or something?

# ¿ Jan 24, 2020 12:28

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Nosfereefer posted:

So a little over 200 years into the game, and I think someone broke Europe?

Aztecs, Cathars and "Loli"!? New Shadowrun remake looking sick

# ¿ Jan 29, 2020 11:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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The Cheshire Cat posted:

Pretty sure you can get them even as non-Christians. It's definitely not Catholic only.

All religions have their own satanist faction. The germanic pagan one is called Cold Ones and they are :black101:

as gently caress

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 16:17

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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binge crotching posted:

If you're pagan I don't know why you would ever do anything other than the warrior lodge though.

How do you join the warrior lodge? I tried boosting relations with the leader, to no avail

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 18:34

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Ok, but like, where do I click to join?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 18:49

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Slowly getting better, which means new questions!!

1) If I build buildings and gain technological innovations, are these then permanent even though I change characters? I assume buildings just remain in the province they were built forever, but what about tech increases?

2) How do I control the papacy? It's talked about a lot, but is it possible to follow a more concrete strategy to have a loyal pope, or even be the pope?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 13:54

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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binge crotching posted:

Some of the things you can in this game are horrific if you think about it from an in-game perspective. Hell, more than once I've kidnapped a newborn while raiding, and then taken them as a concubine when they became an adult.

My girlfriend tried out the game, and after I showed her the ropes, after like 30 minutes her regent had banged his daughter-in-law, leading to a -100 cucked mood modifier and armed patricidal insurrection. I daren't think what she'll do with more hours under her belt.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2020 11:14

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Still kind of new to this and I prefer playing germanic pagans because I think christians too quickly get the "levies held too long" malus - is there anything that can be done about it, save boosting vassal moods in other ways?

# ¿ Apr 1, 2020 09:48

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Sampatrick posted:

Asatru also has some neonazi connotation so I have almost no clue why they are switching over to that rather than trying to find some other name for Germanic pagans

Only in specific cases. The US has a nationwide nazi group called the asatru folk assembly who identify as 'asatru' and that's largely the problem. It doesn't register that way to non-racist eu heathens who may also identify as asatru. (for endless discussion about this poo poo, check my heathen thread)

whatever the case, it's a modern name for a revival religion and so I'd rather they called it something else in CK. Forn Sidr, heathenry or pagans would fit the bill.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2020 15:57

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Coolguye posted:

germanic at least isn't actually accurate and confused the absolute gently caress out of a lot of people when they settled on it for CK2. it's a neutral term in that no terrible people have attempted to co-opt it yet, but nobody except current CK2 players thinks of odin and thor when they hear 'germanic'.

That doesn't mean it's not accurate, at least depending on time period. Before anglo-saxons are a thing, the faith spreads from Germany to Scandinavia, maturing in both places during the migration period.

Of course, it's dumb in the first place to stick one moniker on a religion that was practiced for nearly a thousand years in different places, and had different gods and entities propitiated in each place, but I kinda get why they want to separate it from slavic and uukkon in mechanical terms.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2020 10:48

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Anyone else experiencing a glitch after last update where you can't place council members on missions? The map lights up to suggest possible regions, but nothing happens when you click.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2020 12:23

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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CapnAndy posted:

Nah. If you're not doing Medieval Eugenics, you're playing CK2 wrong.

It just seems really hard. Most women with desirable traits live way out theres or have incompatible religions.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 11:48

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I have 25 hours in CKII and I gotta say I still haven't got the hang of intrigue and expanding. No one with usable titles want to marry me, and my high-stewardship marshal can't fabricate claims to save his own life.

Norse is way easier, but still means a lot of lost wars on the way to ascension.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 14:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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This is all excellent advice, thanks!

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 21:41

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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megane posted:

You can also have a look at the current line of succession to the title you're interested in by hovering over its shield. Just in case, say, the current holder and all three of his sons should accidentally fall onto a series of knives and result in the title falling to a 2-year-old.

Still, that child will keep it, along with their guardian or steward, right?

# ¿ Apr 15, 2020 23:14

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Try as I might, no one wants to join my court if they're in line for a territory I want. Most of them are also in direct family (siblings or cousins) and hold council posts for the ruler, which naturally makes them more loyal to that court than mine.

Also, I can't see any areas in the religion tab that the pope will let me invade. Does that mean I need to butter him up more?

Tias fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 16, 2020

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 00:42

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Okay, I got in good with the pope (bought Monks and Mystics and took the Dominican vows), and now I see what you mean, I can get more claims than I can shake a bunch of pikemen at.

Next problem: How to get enough troops? I racked up ratings for them all, but am told various laws on city/feudal levies put up to 40% maluses on troop numbers, and there are long waiting periods between being able to enact laws - I have built all the troop buildings I can afford, and still have to splurge on mercenaries to get by.

Josef bugman posted:

This is one of the most CK2 statements I have seen in my entire life.

Goes well with Holy Fury, too!

Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury (So I stabbed that fucker too and made an antipope instead.)

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 12:27

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Josef bugman posted:

You will always have to splurge on mercenaries until you are at Empire or better level. It's not big and it's not clever, but throwing money at things can work.

In that case, how do I get money without placing the next 9 generations in debt to jewish lenders? How much can you ask the pope for?

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 13:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I'm a pagan chief with agnatic gavelkind and the king of country ambition, but I get 'no valid casus belli' when trying to slay my neighbours - what gives?

# ¿ Apr 21, 2020 11:37

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Neurion posted:

Is it Agnatic Elective Gavelkind?

There's the problem, thanks!

# ¿ Apr 21, 2020 14:51

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Got the event to build a great pillar, but I just dismissed the notification, and now I can't work out how to build one :confused:

It's supposed to be either in your capital or on a holy site, right?

# ¿ Apr 25, 2020 20:41

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Man the generational game is hard to play. Ragnarr Lothbrok did his thing and united the kingdoms of Sweden, Noregr and Denmark, and now his lovely rear end son Asbj�rn Dust-Biter (I know, right?) has to retake most of it from his brothers and sister - and I say most of it, because he doesn't have an automatic claim on all of it through his father :eng99:

Ah well, out with the sword again.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 13:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Jedit posted:

Another one?

You know how it is. My Lothbrok was super prolific like that, shooting out kids (and inducting them into the Wolf Warriors) until he dropped dead at 69.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 17:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Soo I have two shipyards in my realm (one in my own demesne), and I can't raise any galleys. What gives?

# ¿ May 3, 2020 14:41

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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A couple of years in the viking age start - but if techs the barrier, then I should just be unable to build them, right?

# ¿ May 3, 2020 15:15

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 03:06

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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SMH if you don't ghost ride your horse around the fens and bogs blitzed on meddylglyn and dualwielding blades, recognizing that the hour of every man's doom is set already and none can escape it

# ¿ May 3, 2020 18:51

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