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Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I remember really liking the original Walking Dead LP.

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Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
How long was it until Woolie and Liam joined the channel, anyway?

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Last night was an hour straight of troubleshooting minor issues in Dragon age inquisition.

Almost two hours, actually. And his viewer count only increased.

I've never understood a Twitch audience less.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Andrast posted:

That honestly sounds pretty fun

I genuinely want you to explain this to me. It was almost two hours of Pat continuously going "Hold on" and Paige complaining about it. It's not like they were having interesting conversation while he was screwing with the settings.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I was watching Max from YoVideogames go through the DOA6 costumes the other day and this seems like a prime candidate for a Crymetina Critiques.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
The idea that difficulty levels disrupt or distort the "intended" experience of the game as art is kinda flimsy imo.

First, you are almost never getting the original piece of art as intended by the artist when it's coming to you through the filter of a company anyway. The picture you're getting has already been smudged and distorted by any number of things that were added to it by people other than the primary artists, some of these perhaps distorting it far more than an easier difficulty level would.

This is further obscured when you're talking about something like a game that has multiple artists attached to it. Who is to be considered the primary visionary? How much of their vision did they concede to that of the other artists on the team? What were these other artists thinking when they included their piece of the whole into the game? I find it hard to believe that everyone on the team was entirely happy with where the difficulty ended up, much less all the other pieces of the game.

And it gets more complicated still when you bring in the audience. People aren't going to experience these games the same way even without difficulty levels. Different aspects of these games are going to be more or less important to different people at different times of their lives. Even in just this thread alone you had someone not even realizing that people cared about the stories in the Souls series. I can beat the first Dark Souls with some pretty restrictive builds but I primarily play for the atmosphere and the set pieces and my experience feels no greater or lesser no matter how overpowered or underpowered the build I'm using at the time is.

Harping on what the intended vision for an artistic work is is restricting yourself to only a portion of what art has to offer, and that intended vision becomes less important and more blurry as you get further away in time from the original artist. Hell, a lot of artists aren't even happy with their final work. What's to be said of the intended vision then?

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I agree. The players gets to determine the way that they intend to experience the medium.

However, that is different from arguing the designer is not allowed to have an intent in his design. The author creates his own interpretation. It is not more valid than the readers, but the reader cannot make demands of the author any more than the author can make demands of the reader.

Oh, I agree with that.

I'm more pushing back against this idea of intended experience presented by others in the thread.

And honestly I'm not even sure Mystic Mongol is actually saying that but they can speak for themselves.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Roth posted:

I always found it weird in this argument that people arguing against it assume that everybody is of an equal skill level, and that an easy mode would not be a similarly challenging experience for somebody playing that is a more experienced player than somebody playing the regular difficulty.

Or that From Software wouldn't create an even harder mode anyway.

It's notable that there isn't nearly this much pushback when people suggest that a game should be harder, either.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I got a lot of the same satisfaction from Hollow Knight that I got from beating Souls games, though I also think that it's closer to the original Dark Souls in difficulty level with less of the stuff that started cropping up a lot more in later Souls games that I like less, like enemies hitting EXTREMELY hard.

When I first started playing the Souls series I'd refuse to summon help until I'd beaten each boss at least one time. This lasted all the way through Dark Souls III. I'm not sure what changed. I either got tired of the brand of difficulty the later games offered, or I got older, but I just don't have the patience to bash my head against walls like that anymore. I was able to with Hollow Knight because its difficulty felt more "fair".

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I've been worried about Pat becoming more of a lovely gamer since the breakup without both Wooly and Matt there to kinda keep him under control but I was hoping Wooly at least would be enough to keep that from getting too bad. Pat's exactly the type of ranting white dude that was really popular back in the late 90s/early 2000s from which you can draw pretty much a direct line to lovely dude/gamer attitudes today.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I saw a video of a boy without legs going up and down stairs. Clearly this means we do not need wheelchair ramps and elevators to make buildings accessible to disabled people and that people are just using them as a shield because they're too lazy to use stairs.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Well yeah, but that is where we disagree

I don't see a problem with a game design being "gently caress you, git gud"

I see a problem with telling a disabled person "gently caress you, git gud"

If universal hardware improvements can significantly limit the barrier to play for ALL games for those with disabilities, I have no problem with a game designer going "We will never make an easy mode because gently caress the scrubs"

There are all kinds of different disabilities, and these hypothetical hardware improvements will be more or less effective depending on what disabilities a person has.

More options will always, always be better than less options when it comes to accessibility.

If you're creating a hypothetical where these hardware improvements effect all people with disabilities equally then uh sure I guess that's fine?

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I am going to say something right now that I think is going to make people skeptical of accessibility options feel way better.

A game is never going to fail because of lack of accessibility options.

Like, that's not going to happen.

All we are doing is saying that developers should try their best to provide as many accessibility options as they can. Some of us might think they're assholes for not trying to do this. This does not hurt the developer's feelings as they probably don't know we even exist, nor will that hurt the sales of their game.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
This continued insistence on the creator's perfect and single vision of the game is confusing and ignores the thoughts of Miyazaki himself, who seemed to realize that creator's intent, while of value, doesn't matter as much as a lot of people think. This is why when he was asked about the story of the Souls series, for instance, he said that while he has his own ideas on what's happening he prefers that the players come up with their own explanations.

Again, clinging to the ~intended experience~ too much is depriving yourself of the fullness of what a piece of media has to offer. Speedruns are a good example. Many of those are definitely not the experience the creators intended, but they have their own value as entertaining experiences as well.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

MaxDuo posted:

I didn't get to the podcast til a day or so later. They are talking about how American restaurants never split the bill and act like it's a pain in the rear end.


I just always blamed it in people being loving stupid as poo poo. I worked retail for a while and was at Bed, Bath, and Beyond where our cash registers were 20+ year old computer systems. If 3 people wanted to pay for a purchase... each one chipping in with like... cash... debit... credit... check... etc. I could do that. Then I'd go to a place with brand new super nice registers that I would almost dream about having because they weren't awful pieces of poo poo. And I'd be like: "Oh can we split this?" And the reaction would be: "Uh our system uh can't uh do uh that." Bullshit it can't. You just have never tried. I was never told our system could but oh look, I figured out how because someone asked.

Though it also reminds me of a guy I knew paying for pizza... it was super simple, something like$19.50 with him giving the cashier a $20. The cashier grabbed out a calculator because he couldn't tell how much change he needed to give back.

Huh, I didn't realize this was a thing. Maybe it's regional? I live in Seattle and whenever I go out it's with friends, and restaurants never seem to have a problem splitting the bill.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I just watch the youtube clips.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Saying that every piece of media that does threat escalation is bad is as reductive and simplistic a way of thinking as saying that every character that's written like a Mary Sue is bad. A story can have an overdone or simple trope and still tell a brilliant story. "Threat escalation" is so vague and nonspecific a concept that you can do a whole lot of different things with it.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Indecisive posted:

I'm sorry but did you just call Dragon Ball Z a 'brilliant story' because that's the stupidest thing thats been said in this thread in months

and i haven't been reading the thread much

No. I was responding to Mel saying that stories in general that use that trope are bad.

DragonBall is okay. It's hard for me to sit through these days if an episode is too focused on fighting rather than silly poo poo.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
DragonBall Z would be better if it had more Yajirobe.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Woolie's summary of Sansa's story in GoT was genuinely hosed up and made me think less of him. He would not have done that had Sansa been a guy.

What'd he say?

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Is it really bad for a prolific writer to stop writing when they hit it big and make enough money to never have to work again, especially considering how stressful writing for a living can be?

Like sure it's definitely disappointing and go ahead and complain but making value judgements over it seems a bit much.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
God gently caress off with this stupid dredging up old posts bullshit, it's so lame.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
That makes me want to play XCom 2 again.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
He should wear the beanies if he enjoys wearing them.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Liam's an intelligent dude, I'm sure he'll work out how to handle the pitfalls. I'd actually love to see an indie game from him, too.

Edit: Oh god, Matt and Liam are playing Sonic 2006. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=absS0pl1f5c

Viridiant fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 15, 2019

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Rhonne posted:

I wonder if they're going to add any kind of post-game content to FF7 Remake. At the very least, it would give you more content to use Red XIII in. With the game just being all of Midgar, you won't get him in your party until the very end of the game.

I'm so excited for Red. That doggo is going to look so amazing in this new engine.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Everytime I've seen someone talk about the nazi poo poo in Attack on Titan it's been someone who hasn't actually read it.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
No it's definitely clumsy in that regard and I dislike that for the same reason I don't like Marvel mutants as an allegory for minorities in America.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
The Japanese Nationalist thing comes from a blog/twitter that was never actually confirmed to belong to Isayama, as far as I know.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I watched Eva for the first time last year after avoiding it for a while because I once saw a pretty late and spoilery scene randomly that kinda disturbed me but once I sat down and watched it I liked it a lot, I don't remember it being too slow either. Misato is my favorite character she's kickin' rad.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Yeah I think Paige is just kinda...she doesn't pick her friends well. Outside of that I've seen her be extremely encouraging to transgender viewers, and just be generally positive and not lovely.

She's weird but mostly harmless.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Has Woolie done anything with Matt and Liam since the breakup? I'm not sure why they'd reform with Woolie but without Pat as Pat seems to be the only one that Woolie still does things with.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Oh yeah I think that was actually very shortly after the breakup. I'm surprised I'd forgotten about that, I liked it a lot.

Liam is extremely strong when he has someone else to bounce off of. He's alright without but just not the kind of content I can get into consistently.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
In my experience the best option for a cat is to move them around as little as possible. Cats fuckin' hate change.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Captain Invictus posted:

Listening to last week's podcast, woolie really should not be playing devils advocate for the vagina bones fire emblem persona game censorship people

What the gently caress even is this? Can someone give me a time to skip to?

I'd google it but I don't want to google that combination of words.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
It's weird cause I generally have had a good experience at the SBF subreddit and even discovered a few nice transgender subreddits after I saw a couple transgender SBF folks posting openly about it and not getting hassled in any way.

I haven't been looking there regularly lately though, maybe it's gotten worse.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Liam's my favorite of the four because he really knows his stuff, or at least generally more than the other three, and he seems like a genuinely kind person. It's too bad he doesn't stream more but I'm glad he's pursuing what he wants.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

wolfs posted:

for whatever reason lately, in addition to supergreatfriend and C&I, I've been really enjoying the contents of Tomato Gaming's twitch VOD youtube channel. he has a lot of energy and is genuinely quite funny- or at least makes funny noises. I followed him years ago tangential to him being in some of criken's multiplayer videos and one of these VODS showed up in my recommendations randomly not too long ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpvNYGIF6fQ

Like, I consumed his modded SWAT 4 run a mission at a time this month and it was the most enjoyable videogame video thing I've seen since SBFP stopped doing their thing.

Criken continues to be less and less funny to me as time goes on, but the people he gathers around him remain extremely entertaining.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Matt's always seemed pretty progressive (or at least has the last couple years before the breakup) he just seemed to hide it more when he was part of Super Best Friends, likely because he was very aware of their audience.

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Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
Pat's coming out in support of the protests and riots on Twitter, of course this is pissing off some of his fans. Hopefully this causes him to shed a few more of the shittier portions of his fanbase.

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