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Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Truly, this is the worst it has ever been.

e: I'd probably add some stuff re: recommendations, both from the channel and the boys' solo channels to the OP at some point, but no rush.

Monathin fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 21, 2018

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Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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please do not post Tall Pat, thank you

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Dias posted:

Hey, if you guys have any suggestions for SBFP LPs people should watch and why, please post them here and I'll edit my second post accordingly. I have some ideas but I'll be traveling for Xmas and it might take me a while to properly format stuff.

I also need to do a second pass on the OP.

Nier (Liam + Pat), FFX (Matt + Woolie), Ride To Hell (Matt + Pat), Until Dawn (Matt + Pat), MMX Command Mission (Woolie + Liam), A Way Out (Pat + Woolie), any of the Soulsbornes (though should probably go through them chronologically, so 2 > Bloodborne > 3 > 1) (Pat+Woolie with Matt as occasional guest), Evil Within 1 and 2 (Matt + Pat), all of The Walking Dead (Matt + Pat), and the Sadness Saga (Heavy Rain > Indigo Prophecy > Beyond: Two Souls > Woolie's Heavy Rain Stream > Omikron > Detroit > Detroit: 2nd Gig).

Those are all my quickest hits, most of it is more recent but it's all still really good.

Monathin fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 22, 2018

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Oofa doofa.

Stay strong, Woolz. :smith:

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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As someone who makes a two hour and change podcast on the regular I have no idea how the gently caress people either create or listen to a 4 hour podcast constantly. It's loving exhausting. My co-host is usually gassed after an hour fourty-five and if we go past like 2 hours and fifteen I start losing it.

Matt is absolutely not wrong about how long the podcast takes being insane.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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TexMexFoodbaby posted:

I mean I like the longer time its great for chores and work, but I can imagine that twisting in the wind for 3+ hours gets boring really fast. Theres certainly a sweet spot.

In my experience the sweet spot is like, an hour and fifty minutes to two hours and thirty minutes. Any longer than that and it gets really frustrating (both from an editing standpoint and a listener standpoint).

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Yeah I'm enjoying Matt's foray into deeper dives, he isn't quite where he needs to be (yet) but honestly I think he's on the way, he's gonna have some bumps and bruises but he's got connections and people who have been at that kind of stuff longer than him who can help him out.

It might be worth figuring out what to cut and focus in on and improve, though, I feel like he's got a ton of different angles he's working to find one he can focus on and really enjoy.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Krazyface posted:

Matt will figure it out.

:yeah:

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Remember that Plague thinks fighting games are dunb because you have to do more than press a button to get a hadoken.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Belgian Waffle posted:

You're shoving a lot of words into my mouth dude. I never said that it'd be a cure-all. I never said that pre-existing games with established mechanics should incorporate it. I think it's nice and intuitive and that's it.
I consider DBFZ to have a practical application of the concept and it's combined with other mechanics that lower the barrier of entry (like auto-combos) that makes getting into the game fairly easy.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between a fireball in one game from another... but they'd be able to instantly perform the action in one of those games while struggling to perform it in the other and that's the point.

The fireball button actually has inputs mapped to it in DBZ as well. Goku's Kamehameha is literally doing the Hadoken Input + Fireball button, rendering your point moot because it is in fact, a different type of "normal" input. That's the point being made against you here. DBZF is a more simplified fighter but it still has you actually having to do the inputs properly.

Also yeah there is a whole sub-part of the game about trying to read what your opponent will do next/what move they're going to try and pull out/the fact that you can't see moves until the 'windup'. Fighting games aren't for everyone but more buttons would make the game more restrictive and harder for people to play, not easier.

e:

Dabir posted:

what you do is you don't make lovely games with too many mechanics


Other games have charge times on their mechanics without needing you to memorise the manual for a nuclear reactor

Literally the only input 90% of moves in DBFZ use is the QCF so its not like its actually that complicated. But that assumes you're arguing from good faith which lol

Monathin fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jan 23, 2019

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Yeah and just because you're saying its good doesn't mean people can't have major problems with tank controls. Piss off with this bad faith argument of "actually its good and just cause you don't like it doesn't mean its bad".

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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There is actual intelligent debate as to what game mechanics compliment what gamefeel you're going for and various intricacies of how systems can play off each other and whether certain trade-offs are better or worse for overall gamespace, and trying to pin it down to 'subjective experience' is actually pretty reductive and stupid considering that's an entire design space that has several actually quite good books published on it.

But go off I guess.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Grouchio posted:

Is CastleSuperBeast ever going to talk about the current anime seasons? I hope they do.

If they do, I'll save you some time: They'll probably bring up Promised Neverland eventually. I guarantee they will not be able to talk around the first-episode spoiler and everything that comes with that.

Also you should watch Promised Neverland. It's really good.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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I mean just lol if you think Respawn will ever be able to do anything relsted to Titanfall 3 again either way, theynare now chained to Apex until EA guts them for better or worse,. I've seen a ton of people ignore the fact that this is EA just milking another dev to death after they purposefully buried Titanfall 2. Whether or not Apex keeps those players is a question for another time but it might be the lucky third BR game that can actually sustain itself in this market.

Also this was clearly an actual in development Titanfall 3 getting gutted because EA needs that infinite Battle Royale money well

Reminder that games as service literally only benefits the corporation, and even then only on the executive level.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Sorry that I'm relatively frustrated about another dev getting ruthlessly chewed up in the hellpit that is the games industry and I refuse to let people forget that said industry is garbage.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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i mean titanfall 2 was easily one of the more fun shooters out there and decrying an entire genre because you dont like it is dumb and lame, especially when the game got intenrionally buried by being released the week before said company that bought them's Literal Giant Stupid Actually Bland cookie-cutter shooter

but go off i guess

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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just put your parents and mel on ignore you loving idiots

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Dragon Quest's problems mostly come from its main composer being an imperialist shitheel anyway, entirely different kettle full of yikes.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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HoboTech posted:

So other games have done it, it just took a long time, so... it's impossible to do?

Yeah, never mind. This hill isn't even worth getting a paper cut on. I'm not going to argue anything in defense of Anthem, so just lol.

FFXIV was a do-or-die make-or-break miracle case that not only was never attempted before but literally required making an entirely new MMO in half the time it would take to make one, while at the same time updating the old, busted game at the same time.

Not saying a game can't be made better but FFXIV was not only a huge gamble but literally something that could have been disastrous in about five hundred different ways.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Halfcoordinated wrecks the poo poo out of platinum games character action games with one hand better than I can do with both hands. That doesn't mean we hold everyone to Halfcoordinated's level, and in fact, should make it easier for people like Halfcoordinated to play the games they like without herculean loving effort.

Oxyclean posted:

“Don’t use other people as a shield, now here’s a disabled person who proves /my/ point”

"this one specific diasabled person coul beat the game so shut up about your ~virtue signaling~ and get good, scrubs"

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Like, personally, I still kind of floating around the idea that it is not necessarily unethical to make a game that lacks accessibility as long as the limitation to that access is not fundamentally discriminatory. Of course, that may be impossible.

Making a thing less accessible to other groups, by its very nature, is pretty much always discriminatory in some fashion.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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SagatPunisherFanFic posted:

Can we just be real and accept that journalists with brain problems and redditors are the guys that want easy mode and that persons with diverse ability are just a smoke screen?

Just be real for 5 seconds and not make it an issue of inclusion when it is an issue of ego?

a gamergater by any other name still says m'lady

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Mel Mudkiper posted:

The recommended solution is "add an easy mode" which makes sense. However, positing a future system that eliminates the physical hurdle to engaging with a game, is it still fair to expect concessions of a developer for options that do not match their vision? That's sort of the philosophical question I am wrestling with.

In short, as long as physical limitations exist, concessions by the designer to allow for those limitations are fine. However, if we in a situation where all things are essentially mechanically equal, is it still reasonable to expect concessions of design?

The answer to your philosophical debate Mel is that literally no finished product exists in the modern day that doesn't have some concession of design or authorial/developer intent.

e: This isn't necessarily an inherently good or bad thing, but its a nature of the beast. Rough drafts to final draft to published product, alpha to beta to final build, all of these steps require concession of design or intent along the way to make for a better overall experience for the intended audience.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Mel Mudkiper posted:

Well yeah, but I am not arguing so much for "the purity of the product" as much as if it is fair to condemn a game for not making concessions. Its not a question of "IT WILL HURT MIYAZAKIS INTENT!" as much as "is it fair to say 'Go gently caress Yourself Miyazaki' because there is no easy mode"

I mean I think that you're engaging in a stark binary here. I think in a day and age where people are trying to be more inclusive no accessibility options (which inude difficulty settings and assist mode) is kind of an extremely fair criticism that should be yelled out as loud and clear as possible.

Personally speaking I tell Miyazaki to go gently caress himself because all of the soulsborne games have uniformly garbage dogshit ui, which is where the scales tip from accessibility to "poo poo you should really have ironed out by now"

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Mel you are venturing dangerously close to the gigabrain take of "we can't compensate for everything so we should do nothing"

also most puzzle games have hints of some sort to assist you. Assit modes for action games for people with reaction time problems is a perfectly servicable compromise. I don't see where you're having an issue here.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Monaghan posted:

I will never understand video game companies insisting on having such insane crunch periods when every single study confirms over and over that doing this poo poo is actively harmful to your productivity.

The answer is shareholders, capitalism, and the general money-grubbing of executives who aren't anywhere near the product itself, they just want it to make more money than the last thing did.

See also: Focus testing.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Mel Mudkiper posted:

Well no, because one is an issue of discrimination and the other isn't

Mel I'm gonna blow your loving mind here but let me try and point this out as simply as I can.

The idea of "using disabled people as a shield" is near-universally a bad-faith argument meant to undermine someone's actual point.

It is literally barely separate from the idea of "virtue signalling", "oh, you don't really care about the disabled, you're just using them as a convenient excuse to want the game to be easier". I'm debating with you in good faith that that's not what you think it is, but the sooner you realize this is how it is used when arguments like this come up, the better off you will be.

Monathin fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Apr 3, 2019

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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I'm not accusing you of it. I'm saying this idea you keep grappling with comes from an inherently bad-faith point people raise in order to undermine people's positions. The amount it matters to the overall discussion when it comes up is very little, and you shouldn't be trying to give it more significance in the grander scheme of the argument.

Yes, the quotation marks are meant to be the argument presented when someone is claiming that people are using the disabled as a shield. It's a boiling down of the most common take used alogside such a claim.. somepartsareme raises a good point that you can separate the idea that some people are suddenly caring about accessibility now that they can't beat a game, but it doesn't, unlike the take of someone 'using the disabled as a shield', undermine the actual point in the need for more (and varied) accessibility options.

e: my entire argument is that you are making a mountain out of a molehill, you are grappling with a point that literally does not deserve consideration in this discussion, because it is almost always universally brought up by jackasses trying to get an own (see: a bunch of other people in This Very Thread)

Monathin fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 3, 2019

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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It honestly astounds me how many people come out of the woodwork to post in this thread to try and claim these games are high art and cannot possibly be improved by being made more accessible to more people. Or, as Dias put it:

Dias posted:

Souls Fans continue to be The Worst, news at five.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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I will again point out that no commercially available creative endeavor/product survives its "true vision" intact. There are always concessions made for the sake of appealing to the audience you're shooting for, or various things that need to be left on the floor due to time and budget constraints. The idea that any of fromsoft's games are inviolate and untouched in their artistic merit speaks to a wonderful misunderstanding of the basics of design.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Absolutely gobsmacked that Pat, the man known best for saying garbage poo poo and being an angry turd, says something garbage to reaffirm he is an angry turd

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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I too think its extremely cool to assume all workers in the service industry are idiots and not just poorly trained or otherwise victims of the system they have no choice but to serve.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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speaking as someone who has had to work 10-hour dish days before it's really enlightening how many of y'all have never ever been in the back of a restaurant depending on your reactions

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Grouchio posted:

It's bad to generalize all companies and capitalists as equally terrible; some are better than others at PR. Some CEOs are nobler in views and/or goals than others. It's why we don't poo poo on Platinum like we poo poo on EA.

It's almost as if there is a difference between a smaller company that is in fact effectively at the behest of a larger one, and that there's a clear disparity of how much money each company has! Weird, maybe its almost like the companies that put out multi-million-dollar hits every drat year should be held more accountable than a company who almost got ratfucked into bankruptcy because another company wanted to buy them up.

gently caress off.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Captain Invictus posted:

Man, the Truth Behind The Scenes about FNF from woolie on the podcast is a real bummer, lovely fans ruin eeeeeeverything

Is there a good summary? I haven't been able to listen to/watch the podcast in ages, and if he's actually detailing some issues then it'd be interesting.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Speaking of cool poo poo they do, Mat mentioned on Twitter he's going to be able to see an advance screening of Godzilla. I'm actually really excited for the eventual video on it cause Matt has pretty drat good kaiju opinions.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Blockhouse posted:

I solved my problem with Pat and Woolie's dumbass opinions by just not watching their podcast

turns out it's actually really easy to cut a 3-5 hour podcast that is maybe funny 25% of the time out of your life

I was cutting the podcast out of my life before it was cool.

Me, over here, screaming UNTENABLE, UNTENABLE, UNTENABLE as I bang pots and pans about the ever-increasing length and ever decreasing ratio of coherent-talking-to-nonsense-bullshit.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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"look how big his number is" is hilariously reductive take that is used by people who don't like a thing to own the people who do, and the best friends continue to apply it in literally the dumbest contexts, so it's no surprise it grates on a lot of people's nerves.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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For someone who likes DB you sure do get defensive about people who don't like tired jokes about the things they like.

I suggest getting a treatment for an acute case of Stage 3 Irony Poisoning.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Hell the memetically iconic sequence in DBZ of Goku going Super Saiyan 3 Goku doesn't even win that fight, he used up all his energy that was supposed to be spent bumming around Earth and hanging out for a day in one hour on a big-rear end fight and he didn't even win that fight.

Also the spirit bomb and its hilariously long charge time literally never worked except for the time Hercule/Mr. Satan convinced Earth to do Goku a solid and power it up.

It's honestly pretty remarkable how often 'number go up' doesn't actually work in DBZ (and obviously numbers aren't even a thing in Dragon Ball proper) so really the entire take is a dumb joke based on people half-remembering it as one of the first anime they ever watched.

Monathin fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 10, 2019

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Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

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Mel Mudkiper posted:

A manga/anime written like a video game or MMO is not a good manga

escalation of threat is a think literally every manga does and while dbz is more blatant about it than a lot of media after a certain point anything that runs that long will escalate in similar ways

its really honestly not a good joke

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