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mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Are there any abilities that let you use your reaction for extra movement?

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mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Toshimo posted:

Yes. Scouts (Rogue archetype) get this:

Skirmisher
Starting at 3rd level, you can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
That's interesting. I'm trying to think of a way to house rule to let martials bodyblock for allies on enemy turns and can't quite come up with it, but that ability is definitely a start

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
What if you just gave everyone that skirmisher ability so they could reposition on the fly ? No convoluted marking mechanics

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
You really have to examine how you want martials to interact with the game, and imagine them succeeding instantly at everything and balancing that against casters. (Unless you care about balance with monsters like I do in which case this won't work)

For example, if a martial rolled a 20 and maximum damage dice every single hit and passed every single save, would he be overpowered compared to the rest of the party? Go from there

I still believe that the real issue is the game becoming turn based was the real issue, because one of the major options fighters had was tactical movement and that was stripped away to make the game easier to run. That's why I think that having the abilities like mobile flourish or the skirmish thing apply to all martials would be an excellent buff without needing to completely rethink how 5e operates

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
You can make a charismatic fighter leader but you'd need to roll stats instead of array or point buy

I actually like that different classes operate on different resource recharging so there's extra tension between players but it certainly makes things harder to balance if balance is something you think should exist between classes

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Mind flayers are one of the most legendary and famous of all D&D specific monsters (I'd argue beholders are #1 then them) and are supposed to be horrifically scary enslavers of intelligent beings due to their mental powers. If they ever get the drop on the party things should be really nasty.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
How does playing a game that allows and is built upon the concept of player characters potentially dying ever going to line up with "modern concepts" of always having something to do on your turn ?

From the getgo D&D always has the risk of someone getting ambushed and killed and being out of the fight if not an entire session. How do you reconcile this if you find it so distasteful?

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
My friends playing his first ever 5e campaign and is doing a warlock for 2 levels then all wizard after that and it sounds pretty good to be able to blast away while still getting all the wizard versatility (albeit a bit later)

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Yeah I think he dumped Cha because EB doesn't add an ability score modifier from what I can tell

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
You can't use your spellcasting int modifier for the attack roll of a warlock cantrip ?

Multiclassing is such a mess and he probably shouldn't have done it with his first 5e char

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
How did blackrazor take out a vampire, am I missing something? I thought attacking undead with it backfired

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Toshimo posted:

This is not true and the core problem we are discussing.

Here is the actual rule text:


Glass and Wall of force are clear. Thus they provide a clear path. Of course, that means you can't target anything that isn't behind something clear

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

gradenko_2000 posted:

"clear" as in "is see-through" is not the same as "has a clear path to", as in "you can trace / walk a path to the target"

It was a joke about sloppy wording

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

CJ posted:

I think people are overreacting to that death thing. He told them before hand that the first session would basically be an interactive cutscene showing how they they lose as a prologue. The guy who died said he had a feeling that he was going to die. He has to spend time making a new character but it's literally part of his job so he's doing it on company time. Overall it seems like a much more memorable way to tell the backstory than handing out an A4 printout with a description of what happened.

it's still pretty bullshit if it's just DM fiat with no rolling allowed. Did the guy targeted even have a chance via dice ? If not the DM should have handed him a pregen to play, said trust me, then let the guy actually play his character he put time and effort into rolling up

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Maybe it's in skills & power? 2.5e had a ton of wild poo poo and it used to be all online on the purpleworm site for easy access but got taken down last I looked

Edit woo it's back https://www.purpleworm.org/rules/

Missing like half the books but has the important ones

Edit: don't see anything anywhere about armor also having damage reduction but I bet it exists
Triple edit: apparently it only existed back then in a dragon magazine supplement . I wish all that stuff was better compiled (like rogue assassinate abilities and such)

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 21, 2019

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Light armor is 1 damage reduction, medium 2, heavy 3. If magic add the + to the Dr as well

Simple and you can even make custom heavy armor with even more reduction

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

PhyrexianLibrarian posted:

On the other side of that coin, as a player, how do you deal with a DM who seems to have a "correct" solution in mind?

For context, the party is trying to sneak into a military base and steal a document to exchange for information about a kidnapping we were framed for. We convince the guards at the gate to leave, then I Alter Self into a guard and accompany the rest into the base, as an inspection w/ military escort. So far, so good, a classic ruse.

DM: "In the first room, you see an angel, who swoops down and sees through your disguise (thanks to True Sight) and orders you to leave. Later you find a note in your pocket saying that was a dumb plan."

My instinct is to say "screw you, that was a fine plan until you literally deus-ex-machina'd it into not working!", and his defense is that he's "just playing by the rules". It feels like he has a "correct" way for us to pull off this heist and will punish us if we don't do it his way, but at the same time, he seems way more concerned with the mechanics of the game than telling a story. He claims he wants us to slow down and rest/plan more, but every time we discuss strategy, he rolls a dice and says "in character, you took so long to discuss this issue that a thing happens that forces you down a particular path."

Are we just screwed?
Talk to him out of game about it. I've seen something like this happen once, where the DM knew the party would get killed following the partys plan, kept trying to talk us out of it with NPCs, and we disregarded them. And got wiped out .

Just ask what's up. Maybe there's some horrible creature on this base you don't know about and can't reasonably find out about and it's just gonna kill you. The angel thing is weird as hell so I think your dm should be willing to just say you can't go here without ruining everything just trust me

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

inthesto posted:

Yeah, the problem with multiclassing isn't that it's always used to powergame; it's that if you use it as almost anything other than powergaming, your character inevitably turns into a non-functional heap of poo poo.

Yeah my friends first character being a wizard/warlock is a disaster, two weeks in and he realized he was rarely hitting with some spells and was never going to be able to be much better

There's simply no need for multiclassing when so many classes have their own variants. If it was just the 4 main classes, sure, but someone who wants to be a fighter mage can just be an Eldritch knight

And it's obvious the system is built with multiclassing in mind or else you'd get way more at level 1 instead of having to wait for no reason to get your "real" class benefits later on

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
I think the only way to do rogue warlock or whatever is all 18s . It's why even wizard/warlock sucks , MAD is real

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Numlock posted:

I just ignore dumb dndisms like “no bladed weapons for clerics” or “Druids don’t use metal armor.”

Why do you want things as bland as possible

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

inthesto posted:

I was about to say "No, this is a completely standard rule in 2e" and then I realized you were talking about 5e and said to myself "no way, they would never bring back speed factor"

Then I checked the DMG, a book I have only ever opened to snoop around for magic items

they loving brought back speed factor in 5e

Why did they bring that back when attacks don't interrupt spells? Sure it makes the dagger user hit before the greatsword but the times that matters is super rare

Kung Food posted:

Forgetting all other factors like RP, flavor, mechanics, ect, why would any DM choose to give themselves this sort of workload?

Tsr based games (2.5 and before) weren't turn based like 3 -5 are. So if you wanted to whack someone with a weapon, you had to count off the initiative to reach them, and if they had a ranged weapon they could often go before you. This really, really matters for spells since they could get interrupted. So that DM is probably playing off legacy memories of How Things Worked without really thinking it through

One side effect of the old system is you didn't have all the issues of "gentlemen's agreements" because if all the orcs ran after the wizard he could just run around the fighters or whatever , who could also move to body block . That's all gone now for simplicitys sake



The homebrew I play in uses that system and it's not that bad - every player announces general action at start of round - attack , spell, defensive, hold action, etc. Then dm counts down from 10 to 1 and we track when our attacks/spells go off. It gets messy if you change your mind a bunch or are doing complicated stuff but overall it works well and it's always the spellcasters poring over options that slows stuff down

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Mar 16, 2019

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Tell him no, it was your char. He should be a descendant of his own pc

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Social skills should be houseruled by every DM to cease to exist. That wouldn't solve all this argument about skill checks but it would help!

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Mar 19, 2019

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
We've had this exact same argument before but players shouldnt just say "I roll to convince the npc" anymore than they should say "I don't know how to make this decision I'll just roll against my high int/wisdom and the dm will tell me the right choice "

It's ridiculous

It's not like I'm saying people need to act and do funny voices, describing your plan/argument is sufficient and thinking that rolling a 1 or 20 afterwards is the right way to decide is silly. The DM already has to decide a bunch of factors - is the npc friends with you? Enemy? Racial hatred? Religious Ally? Etc so the roll and skill are pointless .


Its not like high charisma stat classes are suffering otherwise in the game and need this one thing to make them viable . Quite the opposite really

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 19, 2019

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Elector_Nerdlingen posted:

A player should get to state their intent and make a roll with a relevant skill or stat if they can't or even if they don't feel like describing their character's exacts words and actions.

This shouldn't be controversial, but here we are, arguing that if you can't improv for a few minutes whenever you're told to, you don't deserve to be playing the game.

I think the problem is the social skills are so badly done in d&d this is the worst possible option

Choice a) player states intent and outlines argument to make, dm decides if it works, etc
Choice b) all the above, but rolls a die that produces a number. The dm now arbitrarily makes up a number to beat, as well as a number for how good the argument was .
Choice c) play a system with real social combat

There's no reason to ever do B)

Imagine the following comparison
A) free form roleplay, describe how you kill the dragon. DM allows (ornot I guess)
B) describe how you kill the dragon. Now you roll a d20. Did it happen???
C) actual super detailed rolling and math and stat block for the dragon.
c) is how d&d actually works.


As a side note, if your wisdom/int/charism are doing every mental action for you what exactly is left . Just have the DM play your char

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Farg posted:

like before I play the game I got syllables and poo poo down so I don't need the book to tell me that just tell me what dice to roll after I do it

How dare you gatekeep d&d by disallowing people who cant read, write or speak your language from playing it

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Farg posted:

it was maybe a flippant way for me to make a point

Nah I'm doing the same thing . There's a certain baseline to be expected of someone who's going to show up at a group table with a bunch of other people.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Open Marriage Night posted:

Our DM seemingly rewards us with a lower DC if we come up with something clever for our social checks.

Actually, if it’s cool or funny the DM will up the chance of it happening. Sometimes we’ll even get away with real ridiculous stuff if we roll a natural 20. Our Earth Genasi activated another party members lycanthropy by rolling a nat 20 when he mooned him.

That's dumb as hell but more power to you I guess

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Besesoth posted:

I think you and I have come to an agreement. I'm specifically referring to mastershakeman's "There's a certain baseline to be expected" comment.

e: I'd like to know why mastershakeman is okay with my friend whose brain cancer is slowly paralyzing her playing a character with high Str or Dex, or my young but earnest son playing a character with a high Wis, but everyone who plays a character with any sort of Charisma needs to meet a "certain baseline". I'm eager to hear any justification other than smug dismissal or "that's not what D&D is built for". Their last actual argument, "you roll a d20 and then add your modifier, and the DM comes up with a target number", is true of literally every check in the game, and it's absurd on its face to pretend that somehow it's bad to apply this to Charisma-based skills.

I'm not ok with a kid playing a high wisdom/int character and saying "my character solves the problems " , I've mentioned several times it's a problem just like charisma scores. But more specifically , the skills associated with those abilities - nature, arcana, etc, aren't real life skills people have so it's ok to have them in game for their character since it's not supplanting roleplaying

People know how to persuade, lie, intimidate. If they don't, they wouldn't be able to even communicate and show up at the table. I don't have a problem with someone saying "I'm gonna try to persuade the npc with these ideas, remember I have a high / low charisma score and am dressed like this and of that race and bla bla". I do have a problem with going *rolls* I am now the king because I roll a 20 , just like I would have a problem with trying to solve a combat with a single roll

Social skills are a half measure that make things worse. The rolling ends up being a crutch and has absolutely no benefit and actually makes things worse due to the concept of a "party face," instead of saying hey why don't we have the barbarian negotiate with his barbarian tribe , the elf with other elves, and don't let the dwarf sweet talk orcs even if his character sheet says he has the biggest bonus. And that's why DMs should house rule them away. Plus it actually makes martials a more valuable class since they (outside of paladins) aren't usually able to do party face duties if they're using the standard rules

I seriously wonder what some of you want to do besides roll dice over and over while being completely silent

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Mar 20, 2019

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

ProfessorCirno posted:

Do you all just loving stare at the player who's been asked how they do things or what. How the gently caress is your group and/or GM not throwing out some examples of stuff they could do.

"I wanna convince the guard to let us through."
"Ok, how do you wanna do that?" *pause* "Do you wanna try to bribe him, convince him you're his bud, threaten him...?"

This entire conversation is the most pathetic thing imaginable.

That quickly turns into quarterbacking other players

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Remora posted:

uhhhhhhhhh o_o

Hey guys, I have a player whose personal mission (ie, side goal unrelated to the "main quest") is finding an old flame. He got a message from her about, uh, either doing a job together or helping her fence something, and when he went to the town she specified, it was sacked by marauding drow (figuring out what is up with the drow is the main quest), and she was nowhere to be seen. The campaign is now also about the player stronghold near this town, rebuilding it, local politics, etc, while figuring out why the drow are suddenly so bold.

What are some good twists some of you DMs out there might employ at your table, that have nothing to do with this slavering abomination of a discussion?
She rolled a 1 to persuade the drow to leave her alone

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mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
I'm playing in a d&d offshoot so I think this is the best thread for questions .( If not what is?)

Anyways for the first time ever we're allowed to use molotovs . Never been able to use gunpowder or anything explosive. What's the best ideas of how to use them?

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