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SlowBloke posted:Trieste sì ma ultima lettera del MIUR, di più non mi espongo visto che siamo letteralmente quattro gatti, se dico di più tanto vale che metto la carta d'identità Figurati, è l'ironia del confermare che almeno due dei quattro gatti "lavorino per il MIUR". A percezione il tuo contesto è analogo al mio e mi fermo qua perché anche per me bastano due informazioni chiave ed è come postare la carta di identità 
Char fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 18:52
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Oh hey, it's Hartz Quattro. Congratulations, child poverty is going up Up UP! If - and this is a big if - it works as intended, the benefit is the chance to get a job somewhere in Italy, and, if you're poor enough, up to 780 euro/month.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:53
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Oh hey, it's Hartz Quattro. Congratulations, child poverty is going up Up UP! How is child poverty related to the Hartz IV workfare stuff? I'm genuinely asking, I just thought it was Thatcherian neoliberalism trying its best to imitate Victorian policies, with the saving grace of only targeting adults.
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Jan 7, 2019 19:22
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I know nobody will care but the reaction to the vicemayor stunt has been unanimously negative with most of the city hall demanding the dude head. The mayor went on a neutral "He hosed up and was a lone shooter. Case closed" position while people have been bringing clothes and warm covers to the site of the homeless dude The samaritans having to leave a note telling "please don't throw the free items away, we'll retrieve them if nobody picks them" is something that would have been a political career ending moment in another time. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 19:57
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SlowBloke posted:The standard unemployment (ASPI, formerly DASPI/NASPI) is a relative percentage of the previous pay so if you got poo poo pay in your last job you get even shittier unemployment benefits payoffs, with this new trick the low end of the former working crowd is more protected. The issue is how the unemployment office are going to handle this new status, I think that upstairs they'll demand to act more active/proactive while handling people without work(since the last round of workfare reforms made by Biagi, national unemployment offices got made pretty much useless. Most of the job search role have been handled by private middlemen instead of them) instead of letting them float without assistance in job hunting. The risk IMHO is to throw bad/lowball jobs to force people out of the unemployment payout(first two offers have to be relatively near but can be turned off, the third one is pretty much go or lose the benefits). Char posted:If - and this is a big if - it works as intended, the benefit is the chance to get a job somewhere in Italy, and, if you're poor enough, up to 780 euro/month. Yeah, that's very close to Hartz IV. Hartz is 424€ + cold rent for a small apartment (~300-400€). They can't force you to move to another city, but you are not allowed to refuse any job offers within reasonable commuting distance. Calling any of this a basic income is just  mortons stork posted:How is child poverty related to the Hartz IV workfare stuff? I'm genuinely asking, I just thought it was Thatcherian neoliberalism trying its best to imitate Victorian policies, with the saving grace of only targeting adults. Material conditions for children growing up in Hartz IV households are extremely bad& social mobility almost non existent. The Hartz system has very few mechanisms to try to minimize colleteral damage to the children. The Hartz reforms also created a low and ultra-low wage sector that's growing rapidly and forcing more and more people into poverty. Families with children are especially vulnerable to poverty. Poverty and child poverty are at an all time high right now.
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Jan 7, 2019 21:23
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Jesus loving Christ And it's being promoted by the 'left' soul of the M5S. And of course the rest of the 'center-left' in Italy are losing their loving minds 'cause this could increase the deficit. Nevermind the loving deficit, actually increasing child poverty in a developed country anyone? this makes me madder than words can express. Porco dio
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Jan 7, 2019 21:43
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mortons stork posted:Jesus loving Christ Hmm the old school NASpI(which hasn't got any restriction on mandatory job calls, just total time) is still present on the INPS pages (rif https://www.inps.it/nuovoportaleinps/default.aspx?itemdir=50593). Unless you are pretty boned(and truth be told the ISEE limitations on the new mode means you are either turbofucked or there is something very wrong with your declared income if you can claim it), there are little incentives to go with the new bonus as I am expecting some idiotic minimum wage jobs to magically appear in every town job centre to make this temp bonus disappear. Revoking the NASpI/ASpI is going to get people VERY angry(I think having retroactive changes to benefits is ground for a quick dismissal in the higher courts of law but I am not a law expert). SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 21:52
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Char posted:Well well... Have you ever heard of the art of "bestemmia"? The art of swearing against God. You can't just put this out there and not elaborate.
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Jan 7, 2019 22:31
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It's a result of Catholic heritage I think. We Italians love our religious-themed swear, much like the Quebecois. But while the Quebecois take it out on the imagery and the rituals, we like to go directly for the religious figures. I just did that in my last post actually, calling god a pig, that's your bog standard porco dio, which my friends from Veneto like to use extremely frequently in the middle of a sentence, just to take up some dead air. There are endless possible variations, though, you can target any sort of figure (eg Mary, Joseph, the Evangelists) and any sort of attribute (up to and including clothing). Bonus points if you can fit it all in one sentence. It's way more common in the North, it's a good way to get yourself shunned in the South. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 22:34
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mortons stork posted:porco dio, which my friends from Veneto like to use extremely frequently in the middle of a sentence, just to take up some dead air. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 23:12
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It's funny: in English, there's a word that cannot be directly translated : "accountability". We don't have a term that neatly explains this concept. "Bestemmia" works the other way around - there's not an English word that explains the concept. It's "swearing but inserting a religious character (mostly God, Jesus or Mary) in the swear sentence". The most similar thing that exists in English is "Goddamn", which doesn't convey the same heavyness of our bestemmia. Also, it's another regional thing: the people I've known from north-eastern Italy were really vehement while using this kind of swearing, while here in Tuscany it's more of a way to... fill dialogue. From my experience Venetians/Friulans sound really angry whenever they swears this way, while around here it's usually more relaxed. They're almost sayings, especially in rural areas. I don't have many acquatainces from FVG, though. It's pretty vulgar and ineducated, but it usually is a good indicator of how angry is the person speaking. There's some kind of stigma associated - you know you shoulnd't use that kind of swearing because it's against God in In catholicism, it's actually sinning - but it really depends on the region. I'm not lying, one of the priests around my city once said that there are situations where it's ok, because if you hurt yourself really badly, for instance, or you almost scored but something went wrong while playing post-catechism soccer, it's ok, because Jesus will forgive you. You still shoulnd't swear against God, but you'll be forgiven. One of the proto-memes I remembe from my teen years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH_2S6bmk2A Whenever you hear "Dio" or "Madonna" something, it's... that. Some of us find this stuff incredibly funny. This ... "way of saying" was much more frowned upon before the 2000s, nowadays I'm reading/hearing "porco dio" pretty much everywhere. Oh, right, I almost forgot: girls and women SHOULD NOT be doing this, it's considered a disgrace. Women aren't really allowed to be this vulgar. Double standards et al. edit: ah, catechism. We should talk about this sooner or later. Char fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 01:08
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mortons stork posted:It's a result of Catholic heritage I think. We Italians love our religious-themed swear, much like the Quebecois. But while the Quebecois take it out on the imagery and the rituals, we like to go directly for the religious figures. I just did that in my last post actually, calling god a pig, that's your bog standard porco dio, which my friends from Veneto like to use extremely frequently in the middle of a sentence, just to take up some dead air. There are endless possible variations, though, you can target any sort of figure (eg Mary, Joseph, the Evangelists) and any sort of attribute (up to and including clothing). Bonus points if you can fit it all in one sentence. IIRC they actually worked that swearing pattern into the HBO Rome series, just with the old Roman gods instead of the Christian God and saints, stuff like "Juno's oval office" and "Vulcan's cock" off the top of my head. I'm not like totally sure it comes from Catholicism, I'm not sure if the French (in contrast to the Quebecois) are so big on religiously-themed swearing, though I could be remembering that one wrong, neither are the Spanish really (they go heavily into mothers and whores and that kind of stuff). Meanwhile in Protestant (and now largely non-religious, at least actively) Norway pretty much all our swearing is built up around the devil and hell ("jævel", "faen", "helvete") used as verbs, subjects, adjectives, what have you. That said Evangelical Christianity used to be pretty big over here, and relative to Sweden and Denmark kind of still is (though Swedes at least swear pretty mcuh exactly the same way). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 01:16
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Speaking of absurdly ultra gruff dialectal quirks, if you live in Romagna it's customary to yell "C'ut vègna un còlp" if you're really happy OR really angry with someone. "May you get a heart attack"
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Jan 8, 2019 14:26
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http://www.ansa.it/friuliveneziagiu...5546d2794f.html Vice mayor and renowned rear end in a top hat throws a clochard belongings in the trash. Gets a 100€ fine because he used the generic bin instead of the textyle/clothing recycling one.
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Jan 11, 2019 12:22
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Tafferling posted:http://www.ansa.it/friuliveneziagiu...5546d2794f.html For once the locale does its work.... Ci fossero mai quegli infami quando serve... Sono tipo il fantasma dell'opera, ti giri e piazzano na multa che non hai idea da dove minchia siano apparsi, ma se gli telefoni per qualche reclamo fai in tempo a morire sei volte prima che arrivino. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 12:29
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Tafferling posted:http://www.ansa.it/friuliveneziagiu...5546d2794f.html Liberalism.txt?
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Jan 11, 2019 12:56
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mortons stork posted:Liberalism.txt? The textyle bin mentioned in the article  is to take clothes, in a more or less decent state, to hand them to homeless and/or poor people so it would have been surreal if he did manage to drop the clothes in the right container. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 14:23
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A brief beg: What the heck is everybody saying in spoilered Italian? It makes this thread such that even if I could figure out something useful to say/ask, I'm kind of unsure if I'm welcome...
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Jan 11, 2019 15:03
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Spacewolf posted:A brief beg: What the heck is everybody saying in spoilered Italian? It makes this thread such that even if I could figure out something useful to say/ask, I'm kind of unsure if I'm welcome... I'm responsible. The other eurozone threads tends to talk the local language a tad too much which makes them incomprehensible by the rest of the world. Rather than having a local-only language thread i prefer to talk english and have the sporadic Italian outburst hidden as a "if you want check it out but don't bother otherwise". It's mostly me doing sad sarcasm over the commented item. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 11, 2019 |
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Jan 11, 2019 15:17
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mortons stork posted:Liberalism.txt? The free market corrects itself!
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Jan 11, 2019 15:22
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Spacewolf posted:A brief beg: What the heck is everybody saying in spoilered Italian? It makes this thread such that even if I could figure out something useful to say/ask, I'm kind of unsure if I'm welcome... Everyone's welcome, especially foreigners, obviously we'll be posting a lot from Italian sources or do some Italianposting but you can ask whatever you want and in case we'll be offering some translation of our sources so you're not left in the dark. Don't feel like you're being disruptive. The spoilers are just us whining in Italian and you can safely ignore, if it were something relevant for everyone we'd be saying it clearly.
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Jan 11, 2019 18:12
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Leoluca Orlando gave an interview to my local Swiss paper today and that man is an absolute hero.
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Jan 12, 2019 21:22
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Buongiorno Italian thread, can we discuss the current French-Italian frontier ? See i come from the French thread and let's be honest it's our perspective that we are currently doing to Italy what England did to us in Calais for the last 10-20 years: blocking a migrant population that would otherwise just loving walk and swim to England anyway, all that with no concern for 1) the migrants' quality of life while stuck 2) the place they end up stuck at 3)the fact the local far right will grow like crazy because of the whole nonsensical situation. So how bad is the impact of the situation in Piedmont?
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Jan 13, 2019 14:40
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Wengy posted:Leoluca Orlando gave an interview to my local Swiss paper today and that man is an absolute hero. What gave you this impression? Toplowtech posted:Buongiorno Italian thread, can we discuss the current French-Italian frontier ? See i come from the French thread and let's be honest it's our perspective that we are currently doing to Italy what England did to us in Calais for the last 10-20 years: blocking a migrant population that would otherwise just loving walk and swim to England anyway, all that with no concern for 1) the migrants' quality of life while stuck 2) the place they end up stuck at 3)the fact the local far right will grow like crazy because of the whole nonsensical situation. So how bad is the impact of the situation in Piedmont? In Piedmont? Mostly the same as other regions. This map shows the percentage of migrants compared to the regional population.  This map is from January 2017, so it's a bit old, but nothing so far suggests huge local shifts. I'm not from that area of Italy but there's nothing suggesting significant worsening of quality of life in Piedmont.
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Jan 15, 2019 10:34
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I actually quite like the way the German thread does it, with people swapping back and forth between local and English as the context or whims demand. My Italian is decent but not great and this is Europe, multilingualism is an unavoidable part of the whole affair - nor should we try to avoid it a parte questo, il monolinguismo, come Internet, ti rende stupido Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 11:28
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Char posted:What gave you this impression? *and less deadly on fail.
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Jan 15, 2019 11:36
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Less deadly provided Macron doesn't decide to send back pregnant women on foot over the mountain pass in winter like he did last year, because god forbid they have children in France or something. Beyond that, there are some hotspots like Ventimiglia but nothing unmanageable. From what I've read Piedmont hasn't had its quality of life affected significantly. Other places with migrant hotspots, especially in the south, may have suffered more, but that is due to italian law enforcement being essentially failed-state-quality. We may be getting intensified troubles now though, since Salvini has abolished by decree both residency permits on grounds of humanitarian protection and holding centers with integrational activities, essentially making a huge number of people irregular and homeless virtually overnight. Combine that with the aforementioned quality of our law enforcement and we're likely to get large-scale troubles and stupidly unmanaged violent crackdowns.
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Jan 15, 2019 18:13
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http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/europa/2019/01/21/ambasciatore-italia-convocato-a-parigi_2fcb028e-8c65-4478-a025-4aa053f80a1c.html Ma che cazzo gli salta in mente? O meglio: che razza di strategia politico-comunicativa ci vedete? Questi non hanno neanche un grande ovile cui farsi accettare in ambito elezioni europee. Non capisco proprio.
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Jan 21, 2019 21:09
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Seems par for the course... Con la stronzata della cancellazione della tav lione-torino stiamo per prendere mazzate da orbi e sti dementi pensano che facendo qualche proclama alla Trump i francesi se ne dimentichino(o perlomeno i media)
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Jan 21, 2019 21:31
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Well, it's not like anything he said about the French is untrue. It's just that it's probably useless blustering with 0 strategy, in an attempt to reinforce the idea that they aer speaking truth to power, and could you please please vote us again and not salvini????
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Jan 21, 2019 21:33
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mortons stork posted:Well, it's not like anything he said about the French is untrue. It's just that it's probably useless blustering with 0 strategy, in an attempt to reinforce the idea that they aer speaking truth to power, and could you please please vote us again and not salvini???? No, I agree on that - but I'd use diplomacy instead of aggression, when discussing the predatory policies of a supposedly allied country.
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Jan 21, 2019 23:15
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I think this is kind of a case of the emperor's new clothes, so diplomacy and aggression are equivalent: you're pointing out a rival's predatory unethical poo poo, there's really no two ways about it. Which is why the French get insanely pissed immediately and call our ambassador in, but that is of basically no consequence as of yet. The issue is why they did it, and for that as I said I have few answers, one of them being to yank out the crown of the bluster king from salvini. Another hypothesis: the leftie part of their electorate isn't exactly happy with them going full fash alongside salvini, and going ultra-right on the immigration debate. Attempting to refocus the debate on European colonialism in order to reframe their anti-immigration position as a leftie fight against colonial oppression could be a way to preserve their image as a left party willing to speak truth to power. It could also be that the M5S is being the usual poisoner of wells for any good and decent thing (like basic income) and they're saying this so it can never be said again. I'm oscillating between outright conspiracy theorism (the latter answer) and the former.
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Jan 22, 2019 07:44
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To be fair a lot of EU policy on immigration is extremely hypocritical. This hypocrisy on immigration in particular looks like a big factor in how the far right has gained so much power in Italy. If France, and the EU in general, were serious in their rhetoric that Italy should be actively saving immigrants floating across the Mediterranean they would be offering to host far more of the immigrants that arrive than they do. As it is the policy of calling Italy out on the treatment of immigrants while doing little or nothing to help only fuels fascism and is hugely counter-productive.
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Jan 22, 2019 11:27
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It always boils down to this, either you want to concede sovereignty to Europe and have a common policy/plan of action/stance/rhetoric/whatever, or you don't want to, and it goes back to calling out each other on contrasting policies.
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Jan 22, 2019 11:39
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What I find extremely weird is that after the UK goes on their merry way, france is going to be the sole military nuclear power in the EU and making GBS threads on the desk of a nuke equipped country would have been a rather quick way to get glassed in another era.... I don't think that M5S is really speaking their hearts but instead finding a strawman to rile electors towards them(Does anyone have recent polls? I think that their rates have been far from optimal in recent months)
SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 12:17
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SlowBloke posted:making GBS threads on the desk of a nuke equipped country would have been a rather quick way to get glassed in another era.... Which era? Nukes have only been used in anger against Japan in WW2. Inflammatory rhetorics against France, the UK, China, Russia, the USA, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea have been ongoing nonstop in various parts of the world without radioactive retaliation. Besides, Italy is a direct neighbor of France. It's one thing to shower in fallout a country that's on the other side of the world's largest ocean, it's something else when it's just next door.
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Jan 22, 2019 12:32
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Cat Mattress posted:Which era? Nukes have only been used in anger against Japan in WW2. Inflammatory rhetorics against France, the UK, China, Russia, the USA, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea have been ongoing nonstop in various parts of the world without radioactive retaliation. Truth be told in the 50-80 interval, diplomats/ministers wouldn't go as far as what is mundane in politics today.
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Jan 22, 2019 12:53
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SlowBloke posted:What I find extremely weird is that after the UK goes on their merry way, france is going to be the sole military nuclear power in the EU and making GBS threads on the desk of a nuke equipped country would have been a rather quick way to get glassed in another era.... I don't think that M5S is really speaking their hearts but instead finding a strawman to rile electors towards them(Does anyone have recent polls? I think that their rates have been far from optimal in recent months)  https://www.termometropolitico.it/1381996_sondaggi-elettorali-tecne-40.html There's no way a NATO+EU+Euro country would attack another NATO+EU+Euro country. If France wants to attack us, they can keep doing what they've been doing so far: keep buying our vaguely profitable top companies.
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Jan 22, 2019 13:18
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Char posted:
I'm not expecting a bomber wing of Mirages 2000N flying over my head anytime soon, it's just that I feel saber rattling with a nuclear power idiotic, double so if you are in several strategic/economic/military alliances with them  Surprised about the M5S gaining ground, everyone i chit chat with that voted them is unlikely to vote them again.
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Jan 22, 2019 15:48
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SlowBloke posted:Surprised about the M5S gaining ground, everyone i chit chat with that voted them is unlikely to vote them again. Well, you saw what happened in Cagliari: core M5S voters simply stop voting when they're out of patience. queste mi sembrano proiezioni "fragili" - cioè, basate su un consenso che va ancora messo alla prova dei fatti. Anche dal mio punto di vista c'è del rimorso sensibile sul voto verso i 5s, ma finché le alternative non esistono... cioè, al momento cosa c'è di percettibile? Il listone Calenda, il congresso di +Europa? Altro? Char fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 17:00
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