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Yeah but I wouldn't sweat it too much about that platform, a.because it's already the death of democracy (there's like 60k people eligible to vote on decisions affecting 60m people in the country) and b. 'cause even if, against all possible odds, the vote should go the 'wrong' way, we'll ~mysterious server outages~ and in the end the vote will be the right way.
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Feb 20, 2019 14:17
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It's just a propaganda tool to give grounds to a specific rhethoric. It's privately-owned, the outcome of any question asked there could be easily manipulated. I'd like to remind everyone that it has been hacked more than once, a lot of personal information regarding M5S financers and executives has been on pastebin for a short while.
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Feb 20, 2019 14:41
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Tafferling posted:Imagine attempting to control a nation with the SA userbase at the helm shudders
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Feb 20, 2019 15:20
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Char posted:LET'S ASK OUR VOTER BASE! It's not like asking the unwashed masses for their opinion have never backfired horrendously in recent times 
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Feb 20, 2019 17:22
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That's not the only problem. -It's asking the unwashed masses to speak their mind about a delicate matter; -It's a non-binding vote; -It's on a privately owned platform; -Its owner has already proven how incompetent they are regarding IT practices; and, finally, it goes against most of what M5S stood for: this is the least  thing.GBS would control a nation way better than these charlatans.
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Feb 20, 2019 19:42
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Look, if the will of the people isn't an obscure software blackbox that you control where only your die-hard fans are allowed to express themselves and nobody can tell whether or not you fudge the numbers, then I don't know what it is.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:20
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Cat Mattress posted:Look, if the will of the people isn't an obscure software blackbox that you control where only your die-hard fans are allowed to express themselves and nobody can tell whether or not you fudge the numbers, then I don't know what it is. I'm sorry, but maybe you haven't heard of the concept of direct democracy, and furthermore,
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Feb 20, 2019 20:33
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Heyyy what's up? RL kept me busy. So, we're here, ready to witness our government blow up in, more or less, seven days. As predicted months ago, consensus for every major party has long peaked and everyone's looking for an exit strategy to establish a "committee government", which will take the blame of our forecasted-and-budgeted-for tax increases.
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May 21, 2019 12:45
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To sum up whatever's been going on in our news in the last 15 days: 05/06: Armando Siri, a Lega politician and Ministry of Transports executive, is under investigation for corruption. 05/07: It is revealed that Regione Lombardia, the political entity in charge of managing the Lombardia region (that's where Milano is), is under investigation for corruption. 05/08: A self-proclaimed fascist book publisher, Altaforte, makes the rounds in our news as the organizators of the annual Italian Biggest Book Fair allow them to take part. Many other famous authors annouce they'll boycott the event, Altaforte is eventually kicked out. 05/09: Light cannabis shops are under the spotlight. They promove a degenerate lifestyle, let's close them all. Maybe. 05/10: PM Conte and VPM Di Maio say generic bad things about VPM Salvini; M5S is against allowing Nunzia De Girolamo as a RAI (national broadcast radio-tv network) broadcaster: she was a parliament member under Berlusconi; M5S and Salvini are booed at rallies; a migrant boat sinks while a NGO ship is blockaded. 05/11: VPM Di Maio criticizes Salvini's new public order law v2, still waiting for v3; PM Conte writes a letter where he states Italy isn't taking any position WRT what's happening in Venezuela. 05/12: VPM Salvini states these elections aren't about Europe, it's a Lega referendum; VPM Di Maio stats 1 BLN€ was the overall cashflow for our Mothers Day; VPM Salvini is booed again at another rally. 05/13: VPM Di Maio speaks against VPM Salvini, again; a Vatican high ranking priest turns back on the power distribution of a poor housing complex (that's houses built for poor families, basically), hijinks ensue as the power distribution was off due to a 330K€ unpaid bill; at a rally, firefighters remove homemade anti-Salvini banners on onlooking terraces and windows; a state prosecutor asks for a 1y detention sentence for Giuseppe Sala, mayor of Milan and EXPO 2015 executive, for, let's say, corruption. 05/14: For a change, VPM Salvini speaks against VPM Di Maio; a big reveal for the new "growth law", diaper bonuses for families; EU Court states that you cannot revoke refugee status and send back home people whose life is at risk. 05/15: BTP-Bund spread, an index that basically tells us how much debt Italy is accruing through government bonds: its increase creates rifts between the two VPMs one euro-deuptee is involved in an investigation; Sea Watch saves 65 migrants and Salvini proclaims it won't dock in any Italian dock. 05/16: BTP-Bund spread increases; Casa Pound, a neofascist party, is under the spotlights again as it annonunces they'll have a rally in a week; Lega is found being part of bribery; Gran Sasso under-mountain pass risks being closed, but won't be. 05/17: M5S speaks against VPM Salvini; a high school teacher is suspended as some of her students present an essay where parallels between the latest security law (those Salvini is so proud of) and notorious racial laws (those we had under the fascist govnerment) are drawn; as a huge amout of Italians doesn't know what to vote for, newspapers start providing hacked together tests to find one's affiliation. 05/18: ONU states it disagrees strongly with VPM Salvini's actions; on the other hand, he kisses a rosary during a mass in Milan... 05/19: ...and promptly, the Vatican says he's doing spiritual appropriation: the clergy won't stand for this, his actions aren't those of a True Catholic; VPM Salvini is fuming as Guardia di Finanza, our law enforcement agency under the Ministry of Economics, forces Sea Watch to dock to identify the passengers. 05/20: It is revealed that one article of the new security law includes punishment for those who help migrants; Giancarlo Giorgetti, PM secretary, Lega-affiliated, speaks against PM Conte's work so far: Conte tells him to eat his shorts; PM Conte pays a visit to the 2016 earthquake victims, forgetting that his own government isn't really doing much for them. 05/21: somehow, the security law v2 is ready but not ready to be voted on; under this law, dog housing is allowed more financing than migrants housing; Economy Minister Tria is getting exasperated by the situation, speaks against M5S: they answer back by telling him that he has to shut his trap and do his job. 05/22: Giancarlo Giorgetti states that this government cannot keep going on anymore; VPM Salvini says the government is fine; Berlusconi wants new elections; former Regione Lombaria governor Roberto Formigoni is being charged for graft upwards to 60M. As usual, I invite other Italian posters to add their ideas to what's going on, and non-Italian to feel free to ask for more specific information regarding anything I wrote. I just bought a new house, maybe it was not a good idea after all? edit: typos/syntax/others. Char fucked around with this message at 10:14 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 02:02
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Char posted:05/13: I kinda want to hear more about this absolute clusterfuck. Who hadn't paid their bills and why was dude from the Vatican able to turn the lights back on? Is the priest even the good guy in this situation?
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May 23, 2019 02:20
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è sempre così
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May 23, 2019 04:39
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In all this darkness, I'm just glad I can see Formigoni going down for all his corruption. Homophobic fucker.
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May 23, 2019 08:27
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:In all this darkness, I'm just glad I can see Formigoni going down for all his corruption. Homophobic fucker. Ironic he's homosexual, isn't it? Vincent Van Goatse posted:I kinda want to hear more about this absolute clusterfuck. Who hadn't paid their bills and why was dude from the Vatican able to turn the lights back on? Is the priest even the good guy in this situation? It's going to be a roundabout explaination. 1- What happened some days before. This building, https://imgur.com/a/Zf4NA8O , the project it houses is called "Spin Time" and is, in more general terms, a housing/social project. There's an auditorium, there's offices for social services there's trade workshops, there's housing for poor families. Newspapers say about 450 people live there. Legal hijinks make it so the residents cannot pay for their own energy consumption, and this makes paying bills kinda difficult for the project's legal front. ACEA, the energy supplier they're in agreement with, got fed of the multiple instances of delayed paying, and chose to turn off the lights. This was, IIRC, May 6th: "turn off the lights" means everything power-related, pumps for running water and sewage as well, is not working anymore. 2- Who is the priest? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Krajewski , a Cardinal of the Catholic Church. He's currently holding the seat of Almoner of His Holiness, so, everything checks out! Word got to him of this situation, and he said (or at least he said he said), "I'm the almoner, I will do something about this as this is simply common sense". 3- What happened? The newspapers say the cardinal simply asked where the power distribution system was, then he opened a hatch, he climbed down a well, then forced open the locks to the power switches, turned everything on, and finally left a calling card. I think it was a business card, but this is not clear. In further interviews, the cardinal basically gave the middle finger to Salvini and forced his hand in telling the Municipality that this situation has to be solved - the legal hijinks mentioned at point 1. 4- The aftermath: the cardinal can't be prosecuted because of he's more or less legally immune through the Lateran Treaty. So, police was only able to file an allegation toward unknown people. ACEA, the Municipality of Rome and the Vatican are trying to fix the situation. Doesn't this little bit of news have a really strong Old World feel? 
Char fucked around with this message at 09:53 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 09:46
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Char posted:[...] Is there no proper lock on these things or did he use the super strength I assume all cardinals have?
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May 23, 2019 12:10
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Dommolus Magnus posted:Is there no proper lock on these things or did he use the super strength I assume all cardinals have? I'd like to imagine he used a bolt cutter because super strength cardinals is scary.
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May 23, 2019 12:37
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Dommolus Magnus posted:Is there no proper lock on these things or did he use the super strength I assume all cardinals have? The most likely scenario is there wasn't a proper lock, only a long stair. And, reasonably enough, noone there wanted to risk going to jail for the whole complex.
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May 23, 2019 13:43
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Yeah, and to add a bit more nuance - Spin Time is not a housing project. At least, not officially. The unofficial history of the building is that it was state property, with a state agency operating inside it, which then through some very weird gimmicky auctions and passages of hands ended up in the hands of a local realtor and big time fund entrepreneur, from whom the state agency that resided there had to loving rent the building. It ended up being too expensive, so it was abandoned for quite a while. After several years of prime real estate in the middle of one of the best-placed areas of Rome sitting empty and abandoned, it ended up being illegally occupied by a series of commie collectives, who then invited in the residents and refashioned it as a cultural, entertainment etc centre as well. That's why they can't pay the bills, the utility company is legally not allowed to accept money from the occupiers as the occupation is illegitimate. The owner of the building would very much like it to be emptied to redevelop it as a hotel, but nobody's gonna throw out some 400 people (I guess, if they were migrants then they would), most of them families with children, on the streets. So the stalemate continues. And by the way, this is in no way shape or form an extraordinarily thing. Occupation in Rome are an everyday occurrence, as the housing situation is abysmal. There is a severe shortage of affordable housing, what little affordable housing there is has access to it curtailed through means-testing and a decade-long waiting list, so what usually happens is that people break in, occupy the house, and tell the cops to gently caress off because they have children who can't be thrown out on the streets. There are more than a few occupied housing complexes and projects. The latest round of investments in public housing by the municipality was an appalling cover for a comically corrupt system of kickbacks, where builders got public funds and exemptions to straight up build new housing zones outside the limits of the city, which would then be sold at below-market rates to would be tenants. What actually happened is that the builders took the money and ran off with it, they extorted tenants into paying way higher than market rate for garbage housing outside the city that was served by 0 public utilities (in many cases, not even attached to public sewers), delivered more often than not unfinished, and nobody faced the slightest consequence for it. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 14:00
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Now I'm picturing the Cardinal wearing full ecclesiastical regalia and carrying a tool box, which pleases me to no end.
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May 23, 2019 15:42
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mortons stork posted:That's why they can't pay the bills, the utility company is legally not allowed to accept money from the occupiers as the occupation is illegitimate. The owner of the building would very much like it to be emptied to redevelop it as a hotel, but nobody's gonna throw out some 400 people (I guess, if they were migrants then they would), most of them families with children, on the streets. So the stalemate continues. Ah, I missed this. Thanks for clarifying! Anyway, we're way past the "shots fired" phase, M5S and Lega are firing volleys on each other. Come the 27th, we're going to see an even more split society. The VAT god demands a blood tribute.
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May 23, 2019 16:21
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Char posted:Come the 27th You are missing the best part about the euro elections  Some of the outliers are comical. Scrivo malavoglia visto l'ultimo post dell'altro thread che mi è pure costata un bel probe mortacci sua... Non me ne sono andato e sto leggendo, giusto non voglio interagire troppo su D&D per evitare di poggiare un altro deca causa qualche altro genio del male. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 17:31
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SlowBloke posted:You are missing the best part about the euro elections quote:Scrivo malavoglia visto l'ultimo post dell'altro thread che mi è pure costata un bel probe mortacci sua... Non me ne sono andato e sto leggendo, giusto non voglio interagire troppo su D&D per evitare di poggiare un altro deca causa qualche altro genio del male. Char fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 17:48
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In other fun news, Di Maio just fired off a nice volley when presented with a law proposal by Salvini that would abolish the crime of abuse of office for elected officials, esp. mayors, allegedly to prevent them from being paralysed by fear of legal action (we all know why he wants that law passed). He answered, live on tv, and I am translating as literally as possible: "[lega] should be focusing more on work, less on bullshit".
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May 23, 2019 18:25
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 What a beautiful photo.
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May 27, 2019 01:15
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Is he kissing a shuriken because of his dear ninja waifu?
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May 27, 2019 12:47
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He was thanking Blessed Mary for the election results.
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May 27, 2019 12:50
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Char posted:He was thanking Blessed Mary for the election results. Why did Mary give birth a manger by the way ? Maybe Salvini can puzzle that one out for me
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May 27, 2019 13:04
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Kurtofan posted:Why did Mary give birth a manger by the way ? Maybe Salvini can puzzle that one out for me because she hosed up her timetable and her 5 other properties (2 legal, 3 undocumented) were all being renovated at the same time using misappropriated EU funds .. right?
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May 28, 2019 07:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0M2e-td-_c
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May 28, 2019 07:48
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Asking for a friend*. Guys, what do you know about Sea Watch 3 and cpt. Carola Rackete? Has there been any media coverage on the matter?
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Jul 2, 2019 12:25
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Char posted:Asking for a friend*. Plenty of coverage, it has been a slow week mediawise for national news so journos have digged in. If you are worried about the captain, don’t. She’s a white young German woman who wanted to help the poor(but at least without going to some war torn country and getting ransomed, financing the terrorists) so if the sham court that the fashs are demanding is going to deliver anything against her, it’s going to be a slap on the wrist at best. Pissing off the krauts while the eu is still deciding how hard to gently caress us for balance issues is folly. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 22:34
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According to the Spiegel her case was thrown out two days ago as the judge said she had broken no laws (German) https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/sea-watch-kapitaenin-carola-rackete-kommt-frei-a-1275407.html Sea-Watch have a tweet thread about it here https://twitter.com/seawatchcrew/status/1146193333997514755
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Jul 4, 2019 09:43
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I think it's more nuanced than that: her arrest has not been confirmed by the investigative judge, who has deemed her actions warranted and mandated by obligations in international law, which naturally take precedence over internal Italian law, thus also putting into doubt the effectiveness of Salvini's new rules. But she still needs to be heard by magistrates over a charge of 'facilitating illegal immigration.' Salvini had ordered the Sicilian prefecture to draft an expulsion order for her, but it was blocked by the judiciary over this fact.
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Jul 4, 2019 10:39
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I'm starting to think this Salvini fellow is not the smooth operator he thinks he is.
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Jul 4, 2019 10:45
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To be honest, the only bumps in his road have been put there by the judiciary, which has been the case for every other idiot fucker rightwinger Italy decided to repeatedly elect for some reason for the past 20 years. It's like the opposition relies on the judiciary to do the work they need to be doing, and has done so for the past 20 years. They're looking for judicial power to substitute for effective political checks and balances, and some judges have in fact taken the burden gladly. Not all of them, and it's not a healthy system by any metrics regardless, as politicizing the judiciary is not conducive to an improved political system, as they lack the sort of accountability (or any, for that matter) politicians are supposed to have. So Salvini is now spinning this as politically activist judges protecting a criminal (which is in itself a grave ethical violation for a minister of internal affairs, as it is not his responsibility to ascertain whether someone actually is a criminal, and he should be shutting the gently caress up as an authority figure) and both our spineless media and our invertebrate trilobytes that pass as the opposition refuses to call him out on it, attempting instead to incompetently egg him on to greater temper tantrums, and getting provoked into having one themselves. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 11:09
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I see the Democratic Party is the same in Italy as it is in the US. Pelosi is Italian-American now I think about it, so I guess she's keeping tradition alive.
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Jul 4, 2019 11:21
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SlowBloke posted:Plenty of coverage, it has been a slow week mediawise for national news so journos have digged in. If you are worried about the captain, don’t. She’s a white young German woman who wanted to help the poor(but at least without going to some war torn country and getting ransomed, financing the terrorists) so if the sham court that the fashs are demanding is going to deliver anything against her, it’s going to be a slap on the wrist at best. Pissing off the krauts while the eu is still deciding how hard to gently caress us for balance issues is folly. Within our territorial boundaries, we had a lot of coverage, yeah. I'd like to know what's the media coverage elsewhere, in Germany for instance. No malice intended, I'm just trying to understand which narratives are being spun from this fact.
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Jul 4, 2019 11:37
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I can 100% guarantee that the cops wedged their boat between the Seawatch and the dock on purpose, in order to slap an additional charge on the captain and letting the fash go all in on "evil germans attacking our military" spiel
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Jul 4, 2019 12:34
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Char posted:Within our territorial boundaries, we had a lot of coverage, yeah. AFAIK there is minimal noise from the usual UK suspects(nothing more than the Reuters/Bloomberg general tidbits that are pretty much ANSA literal translations), i dunno about Austria/Germany as i don't speak German. Coast guard is not known to be right wing as other police units(say GdF or Celere) so the narrative of the ramming being a trick to make seawatch look more guilty seem suspect, more likely a bad manouver under stress/duress. Finirà tutto in nulla come al solito, nessuna delle parti in causa all'interno delle forze dell'ordine/magistratura ha intenzione di farsi non solo partecipe ma portabandiera dei deliri di Salvini I think this issue (sea rescue of migrants from third parties rather than EU/IT gov) is going to explode in the next weeks as the latest Haftar bombing of a detention center is only gonna increase attempts to flee Libia. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 12:47
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Char posted:Within our territorial boundaries, we had a lot of coverage, yeah. Kinda hard to read most of them because they paywall (stingy fuckers) but the majority of them are basically reporting this as the Nutty Racist Salvini being At It Again with a subtext of "Europe needs to stop ignoring the refugee crisis." Then there's Bild (the fash paper) asking why she chose Italy, with the fade out before the paywall box implying she's doing it to deliberately stoke tensions between Germany and Italy.
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Jul 4, 2019 15:12
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Well, now Salvini is trying to stop an italian boat to dock in italian ports. I don't think they'll entertain his antics nearly as long as Carola did.
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Jul 5, 2019 07:37
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