Italian Politics Thread - Movimento 0/5 Stelle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Italian Politics Thread - Movimento 0/5 Stelle

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Char posted:

-Finally, the Reddito di Cittadinanza is explained.
You might have hear M5S going all-in on a thing called "Reddito di Cittadinanza" - somwthing like a "citizenship income".
It needs a meme, something like the "they said it would be - you thought it was - it actually is", because it started as a very socialistic measure against low wages/unemployment, to make sure every citizen is sent back into employment or training by having the welfare pay them a reasonable minimum quota.
While it was clear it was something completely unfeasible, part of the voters still wanted to give M5S a chance and put this proposal in motion.
Well, it turns out that you are eligible for this service if you're incredibly poor and own next to nothing. If you're simply poor and own anything, it's very likely you won't eligible. And if you opt in and are actually eligible, you'll have to accept one job offer out of the three the state will find you. The catch? The third one can be anywhere in the country.

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Oh hey, it's Hartz Quattro. Congratulations, child poverty is going up Up UP!

So, how does the current Italian welfare system work? What would be the benefits of opting-in on this? Higher payouts?

# ¿ Jan 7, 2019 18:30

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GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

SlowBloke posted:

The standard unemployment (ASPI, formerly DASPI/NASPI) is a relative percentage of the previous pay so if you got poo poo pay in your last job you get even shittier unemployment benefits payoffs, with this new trick the low end of the former working crowd is more protected. The issue is how the unemployment office are going to handle this new status, I think that upstairs they'll demand to act more active/proactive while handling people without work(since the last round of workfare reforms made by Biagi, national unemployment offices got made pretty much useless. Most of the job search role have been handled by private middlemen instead of them) instead of letting them float without assistance in job hunting. The risk IMHO is to throw bad/lowball jobs to force people out of the unemployment payout(first two offers have to be relatively near but can be turned off, the third one is pretty much go or lose the benefits).

Child poverty is kinda of a no issue in this context, you need to be of legal age AND have worked for quite a bit to claim these benefits. New workforce will be handled by the apprendist/stage model which will gently caress them over in a whole different way(working for exposure unless the job provider feels magnanimous and pays you a pittance)

Char posted:

If - and this is a big if - it works as intended, the benefit is the chance to get a job somewhere in Italy, and, if you're poor enough, up to 780 euro/month.

Yeah, that's very close to Hartz IV. Hartz is 424€ + cold rent for a small apartment (~300-400€). They can't force you to move to another city, but you are not allowed to refuse any job offers within reasonable commuting distance.

Calling any of this a basic income is just :wtc:

mortons stork posted:

How is child poverty related to the Hartz IV workfare stuff? I'm genuinely asking, I just thought it was Thatcherian neoliberalism trying its best to imitate Victorian policies, with the saving grace of only targeting adults.

Material conditions for children growing up in Hartz IV households are extremely bad& social mobility almost non existent. The Hartz system has very few mechanisms to try to minimize colleteral damage to the children.

The Hartz reforms also created a low and ultra-low wage sector that's growing rapidly and forcing more and more people into poverty. Families with children are especially vulnerable to poverty. Poverty and child poverty are at an all time high right now.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2019 21:23

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Our media started calling her "post-fascist" and I'm still not sure if I understand what the gently caress that even means.

i say swears online posted:

what actions by the new government have engendered this immediate EU response? i assume the EU put in place some sort of Red Line where in the event of the coalition's victory, sanctions would immediately take effect. based on your post, this has occurred.

since that's a thing that definitely 100% happened, do you think the EU is somewhat premature in its judgement?

IIRC the sanctions on Hungary were to address specific violations of EU treaties and these violations were confirmed by courts. I don't think anything in the EU apparatus can just whip out extra-judicial sanctions on members based on vibes. Italy is gonna have to act first.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2022 09:13

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