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Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

The amount of effort that Jeru puts into providing us all with armies of free gifs and giving them all to us in a handy set of links is pretty cool when you think about it.

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Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

There are any number of small fixes for the third act that could have fixed that episode, but as it stands, I think it's probably the worst of the season, which is a shame, because there's a lot to enjoy about it. Sometimes a bad ending can just ruin an episode, it's why nobody remembers any of the genuinely enjoyable parts of Love and Monsters.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


Strained carrots?!?!

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

I think Doctor Who is ultimately an optimistic enough fantasy show that it makes sense to take something that somebody has always wished for and put it on the screen: to express the horrible, sucking feeling that is the grief of losing somebody to that person, to let them know that you would do anything to have them back, and when they cry with sympathy about how much you're hurting, realize that you are grieving with the dead. It's a good follow up to a great episode about grieving.

Hell Bent has a lot of problems - it wastes too much time on Gallifrey and prophecies and the ultimately meaningless maguffin of "the hybrid" - but the emotional connection between the Doctor and Clara carries it for me. Peter Capaldi saying "I have a duty of care" might be my favorite moment for his Doctor.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Is Yas really less developed than most of the one season revival companions, though? Like, we got to see her family in two episodes, she's talked about her experiences with racism and her frustration in her career. She doesn't have as much screen time because she's sharing with two other people, but I feel like they did fine.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

In my opinion, she's a step above Martha in the development stakes but not really over anybody else. Rose had the running storyline of her growing dependence/misplaced romantic desire for the Doctor (10, anyway); Donna got to realize her true potential and deal with the inferiority complex that she masked with brash over-confidence; Amy learned to grow up and move on as a person with abandonment issues who wanted desperately to belong to something, learning how to make her own family and find a way to mesh her fantasy life with the real life; Rory realized that he wasn't the second-choice he thought he'd been his entire life, and grew and grew in confidence; Clara was a cipher who seemed to fit any role until a very specific reason for why she was like that was shown, and after 12 came along they developed a really fascinating quasi-toxic co-dependence on each other; then Bill was just this wonderfully self-confident person who knew exactly who and what she was, seeking self-improvement but knowing that in spite of wanting to better herself, that didn't make who she currently was in any way inferior or less than anybody else.

Martha was "Not-Rose" and right now Yaz is "Nice lady whose family want her to date, who is also skilled in the police skills that tend not to be focused on in the media."

Fair enough. I guess, actually, now that I think about it, Martha and Bill are the only two who only got one season. Donna, sort of, but that one episode and all the space between them matters. I think Yas will come into her own if she gets another season of airtime, when the show comes back around 2050.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Any extremely long-running franchise in speculative fiction is going to have a lot of issues with "canon" timelines and stories, and the secret is that it's easy to accept stuff that doesn't fit into your favorite version of the show as a one-off what-if story, and that anyone is going to be angry if it feels like changing the history of the soul is changing the soul of what's important about it to them. If DC suddenly decides that it is official Batman lore that Bruce Wayne grew up poor, learned to hate the police, and decided to change the face of corruption in Gotham by becoming a criminal mastermind, there are going to be huge hordes of people that stop engaging with it for awhile and a new grew of people who are suddenly interested.

I think Doctor Who is best when it conveniently forgets about a lot of its lore, but I don't necessarily think people who are more invested in continuing world-building on the show are wrong to feel that way, we just want to watch different shows.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Wheat Loaf posted:


I suppose the closest equivalent in Doctor Who would be the accusation levelled against Moffat in his last couple of years that he wanted to be the one who got the last word in on the regeneration limit and that sort of thing, but that feels different to me in a way that I'm unsure how to articulate.


A lot of people feel like we should never see the Doctor's childhood or anything from their history before traveling, but I like the scene in Listen, and the little hints it gives about who the Doctor is without overdoing it. I wouldn't mind knowing what the Doctor was like as a father in an episode about fatherhood. They could always conveniently forget about it later, like the Doctor being half-human on his mother's side. I think we already know plenty from the way it usually comes up, which is a brief "I had a family once," with no reply and an immediate distraction when his companion says "What?" but I'm not in the "Investigating it any further would be a mistake" camp.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Forktoss posted:

https://twitter.com/LeeBinding/status/1083664647604060161?s=19

I never realised the TARDIS key used in the TV Movie was based on an earlier design. I always thought the key was emblematic of how Philip Segal & co. sometimes missed what to me is the point of DW (the sci-fi whimsy comes from it being a regular old house key and not an ornate space key*), but that's apparently not entirely fair (though it's still true).

* Seven gets a pass in this because it's Seven

Huh. I don't remember the 3/4 design, which is weird, it would been up for 11 years worth of episodes. I like the simpler looking key, personally.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Jerusalem posted:

That made me look up when they're releasing the Series 11 boxset and.... THEY'RE NOT INCLUDING RESOLUTION ON IT! :argh:

Looking forward to having to search for this individually on Amazon when doing a rewatch

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


I, personally, refuse to purchase another extended universe science fiction radio drama about my favorite space wizard until Nick Briggs takes a stand by rolling up to Chibnall's house in a Dalek prop and spray-painting "PC police" on his windows using the eyestalk.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

marktheando posted:

Christ the bits with Nero running after his slave Barbara for just a little kiss haven’t aged well. Everyone having a good chuckle and the comedy music.

Haha, yeah, that one is tough to watch. It's like one stage removed from her grabbing her boobs and it making a "honka-honka!" noise.

I get where Burkion is coming from, that confronting more overt forms of racism or sexism is something writers frequently do to pat themselves on the backs instead of unpacking what racism really is, but I think Rosa is actually pretty good, and I went into it dreading that it would be cringeworthy. For one thing, the timing of it is good. Nevermind that people were very definitely that loudly racist in the streets back then, they've taken to being that loudly racist in the streets right now . People have been putting away their dogwhistles and breaking out their bullhorns in America.

They also intentionally take a break for the characters to discuss their present-day experiences and acknowledge that things have gotten better, but there's still a long way to go, in a way that I think has subtlety and nuance. Plus the actual villain of the story is basically just United States Representative, Steve King, given a time travel kit.

I get, but don't really agree with the idea that the episode is harmed by its characters forcing a specific event to occur, because it over-emphasizes false narratives about flashbulb moments in history (like, eh, sure, but that has universally been a thing for Doctor Who, and it's so that they can put the characters in historical situations without dealing with the "Why didn't you change it?" question - it's why Fixed Moments in Time is so vague as a concept), but the idea that Chibnall was doing a Whedonesque plea for cookies is wrongheaded IMO, if for no other reason than the co-wrote it with a black woman whose specialty is writing science fiction which explores racism.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

The song at the end was over the top though, I admit.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

This is the year that EVERY Who companion learns to call Graham "grandad."

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

It's an extremely obvious troll but a bunch of people will take the bait.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

I think the premiere had some pretty good cinematography too. Overall, this season looked better I generally expect Doctor Who to look, although I didn't like the design for Tim Shaw or for the planet he got stuck on. Tim Shaw looked like a horror bad guy cooked up by a grade schooler after watching Nickelodeon and Creepshow back-to-back, and the technology on Tim's forever-prison planet looked like it was built with whatever they could buy at a Spencer's Gifts. I also thought the CG Nibbler alien was a little too silly-looking. The sets and costumes were all really good, though.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Edward Mass posted:

Also, in the Battle of Raskor Av Kolos, where was the battle? The title promised a battle!

Well, Sylvester McCoy showed up on set and yelled something that made them reconsider.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

marktheando posted:

Yup, finally made it through the Web Planet. Took me about as long to get through that one serial as it did to get through every previous Hartnell.

I kind of want to like it for being so, uh, ambitious, but it really doesn’t work.

I’m pretty sure it’s the worst intact Hartnell. Gunfighters is awful but it’s at least awful in a funny way.

I like Web Planet a lot, but I can understand how smearing goo on the camera lens and having a bunch of actors do interpretative dance along with every line to indicate they're bees might not be for everyone.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

docbeard posted:

I recall that on the DVD commentary for Vengeance on Varos the actor who played Sil talked about this (in general terms, not specifically calling out Davros) a fair bit.

Nabil Shaban is kind of awesome, all around. It's a shame the Sil serials are all so hard to watch.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Jose Mengelez posted:

it's jokes blud.

Get off the stage!!!

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Jose Mengelez posted:

alternatively; it's lazy bullshit writing for idiot british children from a disinterested and unmotivated showrunner.


Jose Mengelez posted:

like his hero sherlock holmes, i spotted a small blue star next to his username denoting that he serves as some kind of forums janitor, for no pay i might add. from this clue i simply deduced the obvious.

Jose Mengelez posted:

it's actually a metaphor for AIDS.

Jose Mengelez posted:

my large son bradley finds this show absolutely thrilling. if he can watch it quietly without fidgeting he'll find an extra gooseberry and cinnamon yogurt his harry potter lunchbox tomorrow.

that said, the wife and i were very troubled by the scene in resoloution where the dalek is about to make a party political broadcast and the doctor and her group of ethnic ruffians turn off the internet or some such? whatever you think of the dalek agenda to wipe out all non-dalek life in the universe it's simply not cricket to rob them of their right to free speech. let's be fair, even daleks deserve a platform and access to the marketplace of ideas.

we highly approved of the episode where a literally soulless jeff bezos analog cried out for help and the doctor dropped everything to crush a worker uprising. we're very centrist in this house but frankly the left is out of control these days and this is something we strongly feel bradley and our younger son tarquin should be taught at an early age.

some of our son's schoolfriends from more... troubled backgrounds, say this show is "pure AIDS" and "extremely fail" but they'll no doubt end up mangled in the gears of some heavy industrial equipment hahah.

Jose Mengelez posted:

because he's a talentless hackfraud.

Jose Mengelez posted:

your brain is profoundly damaged.

Have you considered turning off your television? It seems to make you extremely angry, all of the time.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

DoctorWhat posted:

Dalek Art is probably the same kind of art fascist movements have been producing for centuries - glory to the ubermench, look how pathetic all the lessers are.

Like a Ben Garrison cartoon.

Daleks are defined by hate, so the art is probably Garrisony, but the content would be like the McCoy Brothers.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

The major problem with the Cybermen is that they botched the most relevant way to revive them. Like, wearable technology and soulless tech companies in a world where people don't have healthcare access is a great landscape to tell a Cyberman story. Rationing your insulin? This horrifying start-up company has a solution for your body that is about as well-considered as Juicero! We're disrupting your humanity now!

They were going for that with the whole Loomis plot, but the execution was terrible, and they haven't really played in the same space since then. Looking back on the Death in Heaven two-parter, I think in the end, I like the high concept of Missy using Time Lord technology to store the dead as some kind of horrifying scheme (even if it is a little similar to the library two-parter computer thing), but the Cybermen feel a bit awkwardly worked into it. I do like the two-parter with Bill, even though it carries the baggage of her being converted, but even that starts to get a little silly when it brings back the shiny silver robot Cybermen and becomes more about warring with them than the conversion part. I also think the Craig stories are okay, but their being a bit tongue-in-cheek helps. Like, the idea that the power of a dad's love can overcome Cyber-conversion is silly, sure, but it's fine for Doctor Who.

Basically, any time the focus is on Cybermen being hyper-efficient robots trying to kill people, it's boring, and when they investigate them as people who convert and rob a person of their humanity, it works better.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

2house2fly posted:

Fun fact, episode 12 of every series under Moffat contained at least one cyberman

It sort of makes sense. A lot of what he liked to write about was consciousness artificially extended by computers, and if you need a glossy monster for that story to live in, the Cybermen are probably an easy go-to.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

That three parter is extremely Davies era. It's a complete and utter goddamn mess, but portions of it are so enjoyable. Like, Martha revealing that the gun with four parts was a ruse the whole time gets you excited, and then the actual solution is the Dobby-Doctor magically transforming, being wreathed in light, and floating toward the Master with a sad Jesus look on his face and it goes from "goofy soap opera" to "you're back in high school watching a play your friend wrote and you're trying so hard not to laugh at his earnest efforts."

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

CommonShore posted:

I just rewatched I AM THE MASTER and that is still so loving good. That specific scene, from the watch to the end, is probably the best thing from the RTD era, and they set it up so well throughout the season.


There aren't really any moves the writers could pull like that at this point, are there?

That scene is so incredibly fun to watch, every time, but at the very end of it, I always feel a little let down by how quickly the regeneration happens, because watching Derek Jacobi switch from distracted professor to DEVOURING THE SCENERY is amazing, and I wish they'd let him do it for like one more episode.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

CommonShore posted:

I like how he opens the watch and wastes exactly zero seconds before starting to commit evil deeds. It's just ... like clockwork! :haw:


This corny joke made me laugh considerably more than it should have, good show.

CommonShore posted:


If Chibnal wanted to hit a :tviv: moment, the return of Captain Jack might be a good target, especially if they can keep it unspoiled - like the gang on the TARDIS is investigating a concrete column and one of them realizes that there's something biological buried inside of it so they split it open and ... !

I guess Captain Jack doesn't really fit into the new show's dynamic though, does it. The "Grandad" scene in the forest I think best encapsulates what we've had of Chibnall so far, and an immortal oversexed swashbuckling adventurer doesn't really integrate into that so well.

I think the Chibnall way of handling this would be for Captain Jack to immediately do his "Check for sexual interest" thing, team TARDIS to not get it at all, and Jack to cheerfully transition to friend mode. He also loved talking about gadgets, touring the Universe, and saving people. I'd love for Barrowman to get one last TV go at the role while he can still pull it off.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

I want to be in whatever weather they're in.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Astroman posted:

NOT PICTURED: Bradley Walsh, at the craft services table

They sent him for an emergency peanut butter run.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


This and that one Jerry Lewis interview are always going to be the top two candidates for "needlessly confrontational" of all time. Hopefully the person guarding the pearly gates doesn't use a tape recorder.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


Glad that Calvin finally got to make the snowman he wanted to after all these years.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

You just can't trust Rotten Tomatoes anymore.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

It's funny the same kind of people who don't want their entertainment to be "political" have also decided that any kind of diversity in casting is a "political" act, such that the mere inclusion of a woman or a person of color in something is an expression of ideology. You wonder, if a guy asks to bring his boyfriend over, if these people bemoan how the party suddenly got political.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Burkion posted:

I was talking with a friend about the new Twilight Zone series and before I could get into why I'm really hopeful and excited for it, he commented that he didn't think it was going to be good because it was probably going to be too social issues-y and too heavy handed

And I just

What?

It's the loving Twilight Zone. If it isn't that at least HALF the time, you've failed utterly at what you're doing. This was a show that hated racists and Nazis almost as much as Mel goddamn Brooks.

Then you see these chucklefucks complaining about similar stuff with Doctor Who, which has ALWAYS took a hard stance against facisim and being a lovely person and argued towards the better nature of all people, and you have to wonder what the gently caress they ever took from these properties

Yeah, being political and heavy-handed pretty much is The Twilight Zone. I'm hopeful for it too, but I really, really hate the CBS leadership and I'm not sure I can pay for their streaming service.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Edward Mass posted:

Fandoms are conservative in nature, if you think about it. It’s why so many people say their favorite James Bond is Sean Connery.

He's my favorite to be honest, but I think it's because the whole concept of James Bond is so hopelessly regressive that you may as well go with the person giving it their all instead of phoning it in like Brosnan or Moore. Plus it's somehow easier to stomach the 60s era sexism than the movies that think they've moved past it but are mostly just as bad.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


:aaa:

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Mitch McConnell: I'm sure that we can work together, Madam President. Is there anything I can get you?
Stacy Abrams: Jellybabies.
Mitch McConnell: Is there a particular color, or...?
Stacy Abrams: Anything but white.
Mitch: *sweating* Uh, the only ones that I seem to carry, Madam President, you see...
Stacy: One grows tired of jellybabies, Turtle. *grabbing Mitch by the Turtleneck* One grows tired of everything............ except power!! :D

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Gareth Roberts is mostly a Graham Linehan situation, where like, I'm not going to stop enjoying Black Books just because it turns out Linehan is a huge bigot, and I'll probably still like the Roberts episodes of Doctor Who that I liked before, but neither of them should be given any work now, and there will be a vague sourness that makes everything they touched less enjoyable than it was. It's different than, say, Tambor and Arrested Development, because Tambor's character is written to be abusive in the way that he actually is, in the real world, and it's throughout the whole show, which makes it really, really hard to watch anymore.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Also I'll never get the "None of the above" checkbox because I'm always a little bit mad about the missing episodes. :(

Power of the Daleks!

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Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

I love that the show told us in big bold, glittery letters that Captain Jack is the Face of Boe and that Russell Davies continues to say "Well, maybe it's true, maybe it's not, you never know, there some hints."

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