|
 Hey, Paisanos! It's the Super Mario I am currently so filled with hype for Super Mario Maker 2 that if I don't get some of it out my head might explode like the movie Scanners. I will never forget the day Super Mario Maker came out. In this thread, please discuss what you want to see in the upcoming game Super Mario Maker 2. Also discuss what you want to see in the Super Mario Maker 2 thread (besides hundreds of cool goon levels). Here's a trailer analysis by Ceave for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv8n4QllRL8 The red and green balloons are speculated to be cooperative level designing? Ceave's tips on making a level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrFrT7-19JI DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 26, 2019 |
#
¿
Feb 16, 2019 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 08:30 |
|
|
The reason why it was stupid for me to make this thread is that the information flow about this game is likely to be: The 90 second trailer we just saw this week. Nothing for four months. An entire day of tree house at e3, possibly with a Nintendo World Championship. At the end of that day they say "and you can play it right now/next week!" J-Spot posted:[*]More power-ups. The trailer showed power up wheels that didn't have anything new apart from the cat suit, but hopefully they're just holding back for now. At the very least I want the ice flower to be available. My top pick is the Hammer Bros. Suit, but honestly Ice Flower would be even better than that. The things you listed are all things I'm hoping for. I'd also love to see a SMB2 USA style.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
Phantasium posted:We can play each other's levels again while we wait, maybe? Of course. I was going to provide a curated list from the old thread, but I could dump the whole database if you want too. Nep-Nep posted:Slopes, skins, enemies, powerups, those are all nice, but let's not lose sight of what's really important: Stuffing your levels with as many obnoxious audio/visual triggers as possible, and I hope there are really goofy new ones. The frog has a more prominent place in the UI now, so I think it’s likely. PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Rather than cameo character skins, Whoa, whoa, slow down there, what about the Bowsette costume mushroom?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2019 01:33
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I hope for more Boss enemies maybe the Koopalings. Well, we're getting Boom Boom but he's a bit dull. I'm really hoping to see the ability to attach keys or other items to boss kills this time. Anyway, here's my profile Here's the old threads level spreadsheet And here's Coldpie's level website Our first week's contest was to build a level with objects from only the first two unlock sets. The winner was: Shell Jump Caverns By Cheesegod CB63-0000-001C-0355  And I would be remiss if I didn't also lead with the most popular goon level of all time, Help Bowser Escape! By Help Im Alive EFC3-0000-0028-BC37 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
Phantasium posted:I'm pretty sure you can already attach keys to enemies. You're right. Keys didn't exist at all when I made my boss level. In fact a lot of my old levels would have benefited from checkpoints too. I'm grateful will start out with these things in SMM2.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
rockinricky posted:Now that I'm seeing links to levels, are any of them playable on the 3DS version? There might be a way if you have a device that fakes streetpasses over a wifi link. Ask in the homebrew thread. Also if you were around for the Splatoon 2 release, they didn't do preorders, and the eShop bottomed out for an hour I think?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2019 05:23
|
|
|
The week two contest was about making other arcade games in Mario Maker. The winners were TIME CRISIS By FPzero DD35-0000-0059-F093  and ILF Contest Entry: BINGO! By Skunkrocker D2B0-0000-0050-EAEC  In addition, I'd like to share one of my favorite levels from FactsAreUseless: Grave Robbers from Outerspace! which is an interesting experimentation with telling a three act story in Mario Maker (and overusing the sound effects). -------- My current plan to supplant the previous threads contests is to: Have one weekly themed level design challenge that runs from Saturday to Friday (this is replacing the previous contests) Have one weekly blitz/jam challenge that runs for 24 hours Friday to Saturday. Supplementing this will be a version of the master spreadsheet from the previous thread (which hopefully we won't need very much if Nintendo gets their act together this time). I'm hoping to do some curation of a level list from the challenges, and ask for some input on it. I also intend to write at least one essay for the OP about making levels. Open questions are, Should I promote goon levels outside of SA, and if so how? What should I add to the thread for 'world creation' if the game allows it? What should I add to the thread for 'world creation' is the game does not allow it? What should I add to the thread if the game allows online collaborative level design? What should I add to the thread if the game allows online coop play?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:As for the other questions, no idea. This is the sort of thing where I just had to write it down to work it out. It's mostly squared now. Rupert Buttermilk posted:Anyone have videos and/or screenshots of any of levels, so people without the first game can sort of check them out? What are you looking for? You can watch youtube videos of streamers doing expert levels but that's not really normal play.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:Oh I just meant levels that goons here have made. Without having the original game, it's the only way for some to experience these levels people are linking to. Two of our previous threads streamers channels appear to be dead and empty, and Little Mac's doesn't seem to have archived that far back because they stream regularly.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2019 03:58
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:Cross-posted from the Switch thread, but I figured I'd ask here, too. With Mario Maker 2 coming out in June, when E3 is happening, aside from a Direct before then, is there any sort of press opportunity to show the game off more before the release/E3? How's that going to go? Anyone think that it'll come out before or after E3? DalaranJ posted:The reason why it was stupid for me to make this thread is that the information flow about this game is likely to be: Oh, you probably wanted me to raise your hopes so that they can be dashed later. Nintendo did presentations in 2017 to promote the release of the Switch at GDC and SXSW which both happen in March.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2019 01:33
|
|
|
Last Visible Dog posted:I liked the "Do you even lift?" level best. It's got a solid concept that it explores well in variations. I enjoyed it! Yeah, this concept turned out really good. Thwomps break blocks, but they can't if they're on a stack. You can kill Rocky Wrenches from below, and if they're stacked it releases the next object on the stack. Put those together and there's your level. I liked making players decide between releasing thwomps and having to deal with more wrenches. ------ The third week contest was to use enemies that didn't appear in SMB1. The winner was Evil Eagle with Dr. Molenaut's Mean Moon Base  This level really transformed my view of what kind of things could be done with SMM. My bonus level for this week is World 1-1 by Jarogue.  It's a level that won't need to be remade in SMM2 because we'll be able to make levels in the SMB2USA theme, right? *Death Stares at Miyamoto* And while we're talking about World 1-1, here's one of my most popular levels. I shouldn't have been surprised that SMM players are into nostalgia. Total Recall  "We have created a level according to your exacting specifications. It's a block for block recreation of Super Mario Bros. World 1-1. In fact, we guarantee it."
|
|
#
¿
Mar 2, 2019 06:12
|
|
|
How do you make a Mario Level? A Mario level is made up of a series of challenges mixed with rest (and catharsis) sections. Usually, a level will start by introducing its main idea with an extremely easy version of its challenge and then develop the challenge further by lengthening its challenge or complicating the challenge through each additional section, with the final section being the most difficult. Earlier in the series, especially in Super Mario Bros. levels tended not to have a very strong theme, but this changed as the complexity of each later game allowed clearer level themes. When making a Mario Maker level I would recommend using a strongly themed approach to levels given all the options available. More recent games have used a structure similar to one from Japanese short poetry called Kishōtenketsu. (Watch the below video for more.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBmIkEvEBtA What this adds to the structure of the level is an orthogonal challenge which mixes with the main challenge towards the end to create a more interesting finale. An example of a theme for a level might be something like "Use Kuribo's shoe to fight off spiketops on platforms". If you want a more 'realistic' Mario level, think of the sort of thing you might see from Super Mario Bros. 3 or World, like World 1-2, or Cheese Bridge. A challenge oriented theme isn't the only way to go though, some of our favorite levels use a narrative theme instead. What if you had to fight sea pirates, or rob a train, what would those levels look like? Don't forget to put some special hidden areas and rewards in your level for extra skilled players or careful explorers. This is a key feature to make your level feel special. Okay, but like, what are the steps to creating a level?
How do I get more stars? The number one factor in getting stars is getting people to play your levels. And the best way to get your levels played is to post them After that, I've been told the second most important factor is making your level beatable by people. This is hard, because you're probably better at Mario than most of the game's players already, and the levels you've played the most are your own. Try to scale the challenge back a little if your aim is more stars. That's all of my general advice for level creation. I'm sure you'll do great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNKOt2k7Pm4&t=45s Sea Lily posted:It's okay to make levels that make you happy and share them even if you think they are not amazing DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 5, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2019 07:30
|
|
|
I spent an average of six hours on most of my levels. Joy factory took exactly 20 minutes. Come Sail Away took 62. Solar Jetman took me over 14 hours. It’s the only one I would consider a mistake overall.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2019 18:56
|
|
|
The week four contest had a stealth theme, the winners were: Moose On the Loose with Mario Teaches Stealth  and Angry Ed with Infiltrate the ? Block Factory  One thing I'm looking forward to doing in the new thread is submitting more of our levels to GameCenter CX like this goon level that was played live on air. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2019 01:05
|
|
|
The fifth week contest was about expensive things and cheap things. The winner was me with: Roy Koopa's Bargain Basement Repairships  I can already see how much better this level would be just by replacing the P switches with switch blocks.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2019 22:48
|
|
|
Well, absolutely no news from SXSW or GDC or Pax East, so that sucks. Anyway the sixth week contest was about making an athletic, Control Volume won with Turtle Peaks 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2019 20:03
|
|
|
I understand the irony since I am 100% already planning a ‘world’ of levels, but I think Super Mario Maker was intentionally designed to not have worlds. The intended consequences of this is to encourage makers to create more varied levels, and to encourage players to play levels by many different people. It succeeded in both of these areas. What would I do as an alternative to worlds? First I would allow creators to set an option on their levels that would load Mario’s powerup state from the last played level (if compatible?). Second I would change the costume mushroom unlocks into a ‘cash shop’ where you spend extra lives to buy the unlocks (recall that you are limited to 3 extra lives per level which reduces the incentive to create ‘farming’ levels).
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2019 16:56
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:Where was the news about the MM2 website? Technically, on the website itself. Realistically, gamexplain, subscribe if you want videos about 100 different swimming animations.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2019 22:43
|
|
|
J-Spot posted:They put out a small release date announcement trailer. It doesn’t really show off anything new apart from Banzai Bills being placeable outside of cannons. The only thing I’ve sussed out from this new announcement that might not be apparent is that SMM2 will require Nintendo Online.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2019 01:17
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:I thought Athletic theme was the one from SMB3, notably from 1-4? Well, ‘athletic theme’ refers to a) A level gameplay style, b) the corresponding tile set, and c) the corresponding music track. So, the first Athletic level in all of Super Mario Bros. is Super Mario Bros. (1) World 1-3. (And the first one in SMB3 is 1-4, as you mentioned.) In general, the most common usage for the term ‘athletic theme’ is in reference to the music, but with SMM we almost always mean the tile set when we say ‘theme’. Phantasium posted:that level where you sacrifice Yoshi. You’re going to have to narrow that down. 
|
|
#
¿
May 1, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
J-Spot posted:I’m also looking forward to the 5 hour GameXPlain afterwards. Ha ha ha, they've done a 40 minute prediction video. The direct is going to be 15 minutes long.
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
Ladies and gentlemen, let's a go.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2019 23:00
|
|
|
They definitely said "Once you unlock..."
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I think the best way to handle that is to gate all the unlocks behind completing Nintendo-designed courses that demonstrate the function/utility of the tools you'll be unlocking through play. Yes, this would be a much better way to do it.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2019 23:19
|
|
|
 Yeah, so, I'd like to draw your attention to this obvious gap to the right of Super Mario 3D World style, and the use of plural.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
Um, obviously it's going to be a game where Mario is the playable character (golf).
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
*shoves way into thread* Um, allow me to gamexplain this for you, ladies. I may have watched the direct like 3 more times already. The video showed every object from Super Mario Maker 1 other than costume mushrooms. (Except Monty Moles? which were in the reveal trailer.) It appears that course codes are now 9 digit alphanumerics, instead of hexadecimal. They implied liquid level changes are restricted by level (to forest for water, and castle for lava). There is no evidence so far of how many sub levels we're allowed. (They've only showed the number 1 on the marker so far.) Coop play is one person per switch because they didn't do any split screen, but oddly coop making requires single joycons?  J-Spot posted:It goes by really quick but one of the potential clear conditions you can set is "reach the goal without landing after leaving the ground" which is definitely interesting. Potentially they could have all kinds of stuff like "don't collect a single coin" challenges. The symbols match.  Here are some more dumb things I spotted: You can draw miiverse style pictures.  Don't everyone rush to draw penises at once. For some reason when you get the car it shows the super famicon logo?  This is probably the giant mushroom.  It's likely you can change theme colors in some manner. (This ground tile type is always blue in SMB3 and SMM1.)  BTW, it did not appear that you can custom assign background decorations. Here's a new block in Mario 1 style. It just looks like a wood block to me, but those were the zelda type pyramids in Mario 1 before. 
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 02:12
|
|
|
creationist believer posted:Is that a non-breakable block in the desert style maybe? It was in sky style, but there's not a lot of evidence for there being new block types so you may have identified it correctly. e: It's at 3:07, have a look for yourself since that cloud style is also new. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 02:30 on May 16, 2019 |
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 02:27
|
|
|
Sam Faust posted:It might be a sound effect attached to the car. That would explain the weird visual effect, but I didn't hear anything but a car starting up. DapperDuck posted:That's probably the subspace for the SMB3 desert theme. It was the color scheme for the pyramid level in SMB3. The colors are a match. I'm not sure exactly how that would work but it seems likely.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 04:03
|
|
|
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they updated the SMM2 website today. e: It's basically all with content from the direct, but tell me if you spot something new.MonsterEnvy posted:They did say they have not shown everything. I'm sure there will be a new surprise or two during the tournament on June 8th. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 06:30 on May 16, 2019 |
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 06:15
|
|
|
J-Spot posted:Video from the Japanese site: That’s what I suspected about the costume mushroom, but maybe the mega mushroom will have multiple modes? The loss of the small Mario extra hit would be upsetting. As for piranha plants, that was a problem with the spawn timing, I think it could have been solved with the piranha plant starting it’s cycle out of the pipe. But it would be nice to get varying speeds. Argue posted:Then there's several Super Mario 3D World clips that appear to take place in some kind of toybox-like biome. We were discussing the possibility of the sub zones carrying on the theme of the main zone, but it’s also possible that 3D World has a different set of themes.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 16:27
|
|
|
The hammer could also be a Donkey Kong hammer potentially.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2019 18:37
|
|
|
BabyRyoga posted:You have to limit that kind of creativity on any platform kids will be playing. However, I don't see how a Mario Paint music editor could backfire in any conceivable way. You could add the option to disable custom music on any level you play that has just junk/spam for the music. Remember when they let you add voice clips but then when you uploaded the level they turned into bird chirps. I played a level called King of the Hill that had like 20 custom voice clips, and it made me sad.
|
|
#
¿
May 17, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
Okay. So here’s a good question. Now that we have a lot more details on the new features, what level are you most excited to make (or play)? I think the first level I have a plan for is a remake of my level that was entirely platforms on tracks, but this time I’ll add in on/off switch tracks.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
Argue posted:I'm gonna remake all my old levels because much like Nintendo I'm out of ideas and not enough people appreciated my Wii U output Just update them all for coop, and no one will notice. That’s my plan.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2019 05:41
|
|
|
SeANMcBAY posted:Maybe it’s a choice this time. I hope you can attach a powerup to the flag. My checkpoints will turn you into raccoon/cape Mario.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2019 21:28
|
|
|
Here's some reference content for another writeup I should do, or maybe I'll just get lazy and only provide the links in my OP, http://julian.togelius.com/Dahlskog2012Patterns.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280943816_The_Fine_Line_Between_Rehash_and_Sequel_Design_Patterns_of_the_Super_Mario_Series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9NdAao9y_4
|
|
#
¿
May 21, 2019 02:10
|
|
|
SeANMcBAY posted:I hope there’s another way to implement Luigi physics, considering he’s actually playable now. Night sky + ice might be an interesting combo. I’m not sure whether it will be like Luigi. Overbite posted:I'm gonna make a level with bowsette I’m going to make a level with Meowsette, because combining things to the point of insanity is the Mario Maker way.
|
|
#
¿
May 23, 2019 15:21
|
|
|
Okay, so you've read all about how to create a level, but maybe you're still stymied in the moment to moment experience of design. If you're looking at a the next part of your level and you're saying I don't know what goes here, this essay is for you. Super Mario Maker level design using patterns and beats. What is a pattern?[1][2] On one level, a pattern is a solution for a design problem. Now the main (macro level) design problem in Mario games is "How do I create varied challenges to interest the player?". On another level, a pattern is a portion of design that the human brain can see repeated and varied. It's a language that we construct to be a shorthand for design concepts. This helps us to both understand the design on a deeper level and discuss it more easily. The easiest way to explain is with an example. Example: Enemy Valley Problem: Maybe you haven't noticed, but Mario can jump. It's pretty easy for him to avoid enemies that are on the ground without engaging with them at all by standing on an upper level. Solution: Create an area between two pillars that contains one or more enemies. The distance between the two pillars should usually be too long to jump from one pillar to the other. This forces the player to engage with the enemies. Does that sound familiar? That's because it's used twice in SMB 1-1 right here,  Now, patterns like can contain less complex patterns. Usually because basic patterns are extremely simple. For instance, 'enemy' is considered a pattern, so Enemy Valley nessacarily contains one of the variations of it. When this happens, the largest, most complex pattern is called the 'dominant pattern'. What is a beat? How are they used in Mario games?[3] Gameplay 'beats' are about the rhythm of a games action. The original definition for a beat was a single instance of a player taking an action, like jumping, but the later reference material I'm using considers a 'beat' to be the actions needed to complete a dominant pattern. By analyzing the first world of each Mario game the researcher found some interesting information about the changes in beats over different games. Over time the number of beats per level increased, nearly doubling (from around 16 to 27) between SMB and NSMB. Then a later trend is the increase of beats being overlaid on each other as the NSMB series progressed, overall causing the number of beats to go down. This implies both that later games became more dense with action, but also combined and modified the patterns in new ways. Note that this trend of increased beats really only picks up with the game boy games, and the number of beats in SMB3 and SMW is similarly 'slow' to SMB. If you want to create a more modern game use and combine a number of beats but if you want to make a 'realistic' old style level you'll want to take things slower. What are the failure consequences in Mario games?[4] So, an important part of keeping the player's interest is varying the patterns used. There are several dimensions that an individual pattern could be varied over, length, types of enemies contained, etc. But the one I want to discuss here is failure consequences, as it allows you to more easily vary difficulty and create a difficulty curve over the course of your level. The possible consequences for failure in increasing order of severity are, 1. You miss a reward, such as a dragon or star coin, or a power up. 2. You have to retry the challenge until you succeed. This option is very good for a teaching challenge at the beginning of a stage. 3. You take damage. 4. You immediately die usually from falling. It's easy to see how these failure consequences can be varied over a level, even when the challenge patterns are similar to create changing difficulty. A list of patterns used by Mario Games.[2][3] The left side is patterns used in non-underwater/non-castle levels in SMB. And the right side are additional patterns found the first world of every 2D Mario game up to NSMB2.  Putting the pieces together. Putting pieces together is exactly what design patterns are about. So by choosing a theme (see my previous essay), adding a series of patterns, varying the patterns in length and features, and creating a difficulty arc, now we're on the way to being able to instinctively build a good Mario level. References: [1]The Timeless Way of Building Christopher Alexander [2]Patterns and Procedural Content Generation Dahlskog/Togelius http://julian.togelius.com/Dahlskog2012Patterns.pdf [3]The Fine Line Between Rehash and Sequel: Design Patterns of the Super Mario Series Thompson https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280943816_The_Fine_Line_Between_Rehash_and_Sequel_Design_Patterns_of_the_Super_Mario_Series [4]Deconstructing Mario: How New Super Mario Bros. U handles Difficulty Ceave Gaming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9NdAao9y_4 DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 27, 2019 |
|
#
¿
May 24, 2019 23:04
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 08:30 |
|
|
Gin posted:Great post DalaranJ, really interesting. I'm sure I'll reference it is a month or so. I'll be putting my  posts in the release OP. I think I screwed up modifying the image so I'll look into cleaning that up.Rupert Buttermilk posted:Not from my memory, and that's why I bring it up. I was reading this and immediately remembered a bunch of places in almost every 2d Mario game I've played that were similar. Oh, I wasn't saying that Mario has the secret sauce. Patterns are a thing that exists in every work created by humans (and if you agree with Christopher Alexander everything in nature, as well). The point is that if you know they exist, you can see them being used, and then you can use them to your advantage. You will use a solution that fits your problem, and not some worse solution. Personally, I think there's evidence that the makers of Super Mario Bros. understood patterns on some level, although the terminology wasn't in vogue at that time. I don't think we have any particular evidence that the makers of Donkey Kong Country didn't understand it. They definitely were using consequence levels intentionally to make DKC 'harder' than the Mario series and differentiate it.
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2019 03:52
|
|