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Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

pointlessone posted:

Darksiders never really did anything wildly exciting and genre breaking, but it really nails that "14 year old cool" vibe. There's never any point in game that wouldn't fit in the conversation of two kids surrounded by stacks of Spawn and X-Force comics brainstorming ideas for stories and characters.

"War's gotta have a sword and huuuuge armor!"
"Yeah, but he's got to be fast and strong! AND THROWS CARS AT EVERYTHING!!"
"Uh huh! And he kicks open doors because handles are for pussies!"


The best part is that it 100% works. It might not be the best game in the world, it's certainly flawed in the overabundant combat trials and picky aiming controls, but it is shameless, unabashed fun. It might not be high art, but I've got a soft spot for Rob Liefield Zelda.

Oh, and then, and then, he opens doors with keys, but the key is a giant rad sword, that he fuckin stabs into an eye on the door, and there's hell of blood and it's gnarly as gently caress.

*slams four Monster energy drink cans at once*

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pointlessone
Aug 6, 2001

The Triad Frog is pleased with this custom title purchase.

bony tony posted:

Oh, and then, and then, he opens doors with keys, but the key is a giant rad sword, that he fuckin stabs into an eye on the door, and there's hell of blood and it's gnarly as gently caress.

*slams four Monster energy drink cans at once*

Dude, DUDE! I got it! You've played God of War, right? What if War could do, like, finishers on everything like Kratos does on bosses?!? How cool would that be? Beat em up for a couple hits and then BAM, he slices em in half!

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Aumanor posted:

Warrior Within was the best game of the trilogy. There, I said it.
Fully agreed. The platforming is fun in all three but WW has easily the best combat.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 12: War - OSHA Inspector :siren:

FPzero joins us for the second dungeon, recorded hot off the heels of the Water Temple, just in time for... *checks notes* the Water dungeon. :downs:

E: The Nimpize Adventure thread

Artix fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Apr 16, 2019

stryth
Apr 7, 2018

Got bread?
GIVE BREADS!
I love how Artix just goes quiet after Fedule and FPzero start talking game design, did he just leave and get a drink or something?

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Feels like that might just be the wise option if you don't really have much to add on the subject.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I often find that people go quiet and stop responding when I talk about video games.

ZeButler
Oct 2, 2013

Oh man, if only this episode had been recorded after the Shadow Temple in Nimpize.

AmiYumi
Oct 10, 2005

I FORGOT TO HAIL KING TORG
So with Nimpize wrapping up, our sandwiches go here right?

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 13: I Do Not Think the Pope Would Approve :siren:

Truly, that was the problem all along. The cathedral was oriented the wrong way.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Music is one thing they really improved with 2.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 14: I Empathize Greatly With the Tentacle Monster From Hell :siren:

I definitely didn't gently caress up by actually Fixing It In Post™ last video when we decided to do this opening.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
That's a paddlin'.

pointlessone
Aug 6, 2001

The Triad Frog is pleased with this custom title purchase.
"War should totally punch a boss with a train.
OHMYGOD! I GOT IT!
Instead of a bow, War gets a GUN. And it's got like infinite bullets because reloading is for chumps! This is the coolest game idea EVER!"



Buttrock and Platinum quicktime smashing events would have made it so much more satisfying though.

Shei-kun
Dec 2, 2011

Screw you, physics!
The commentary has continued to deliver memorable lines I never would have expected to hear in my lifetime. :allears:

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Compasses and maps are definitely a great idea. Now let me tell you about Darksiders 3...

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
FP I'm pretty sure I know which missile expansion in a tunnel covered by leaves you were talking about, and it was the last upgrade I ended up finding in Metroid Prime :lol: Took me forever.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer

C-Euro posted:

FP I'm pretty sure I know which missile expansion in a tunnel covered by leaves you were talking about, and it was the last upgrade I ended up finding in Metroid Prime :lol: Took me forever.

Yes, I was thinking of the exact same one, too.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
Had some real life work issues pop up but here's an update all the same:

:siren: Part 15: And Now War Can Travel Through Time* :siren:

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Dead Cells' shopkeeper insults you if you dare to enter their shop without enough money.

inflatablefish
Oct 24, 2010
Chronospheres?

So, it's official that this is the same universe as Command & Conquer: Red Alert?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

inflatablefish posted:

Chronospheres?

So, it's official that this is the same universe as Command & Conquer: Red Alert?
The Destroyer is actually Stalin.

Melaneus
Aug 24, 2007

Here to make your dreams and nightmares come true.
I am Sam.
Sam-i-el.
Never trust me
I'm from hell

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 16: Don't Mind The Worms :siren:

The first 15 minutes or so is a really boring transitional area so we indulge in some more game design talk, this time about the nature of derivative games.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
The reason you liked Wind Waker and not Skyward Sword is you were younger when Wind Waker came out and had more time to waste

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
I liked the sailing in Wind Waker, I just just wish every land mass in that game was like 10% larger.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Game mechanic 'literacy' as it were is a scourge I battle with daily to try and remove from my brain.

But about games teaching you stuff: IMO its fine to lean just a little on expecting the player to have some level of Game Literacy, but the rest of it is the really hard part because ability to learn and, more importantly, pattern recognition vary wildly between person to person, and theres always the chance the player learns 'wrongly' and ends up facing that challenge you tried to teach them against in a way that is just not fun, like brute forcing a puzzle. For a personal example despite many games trying their hardest to get me to LOOK UP DUMBASS I still rarely ever do and have to make a conscious effort to do so.

Trying to shoehorn organic teaching into every mechanic is going to take a lot of time, time away from actually designing and developing the challenges, and possibly time away from the player as they try to figure out just what the hell the game is asking them to do, and theres always the pitfall of just subconsciously leaning on Game Literacy, making that organic teaching moment not really due to the game itself.

Tutorializing is fine: framing, timing and the rate of ramp-up in challenge after a tutorial is what I believe most people object to.

And Id like to finish with this: games teaching you poo poo without spelling it out isnt the mark of a good game, but especially good games usually have it.

However, theres also brand new design space created by game literacy: how can you exploit the players expectations and learned reactions to deliver a new experience (Sekiro is such a game that kicks your rear end for expecting dark souls)

corn in the bible posted:

The reason you liked Wind Waker and not Skyward Sword is you were younger when Wind Waker came out and had more time to waste

Coincidentally, Cynicism is another brainworm im trying to get rid of.

Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 13, 2019

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I don't know; maybe it's the fact I did not play any as a child but Zelda games always felt really boring to me even though I love the Darksiders and Legacy of Kain series. I suppose I could chalk it down to Hyrule not being exactly an interesting world to explore - constant callbacks and reusals don't help either - but one would think the gameplay should be good enough to carry such a popular series. It just... doesn't. At least for me.

I guess what I'm saying is that Darksiders may be "perfectly adequate" mechanics-wise, but the silly, over-the-top and loving it setting and story puts it way above.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

The whole "not really open world, just really big" aspect was also done pretty well in the rebooted Tomb Raider games, I thought.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 17: The Finest in Demon Engineering :siren:

I am a certified Puzzle Expert™, as this video will attest to.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
I'm curious what the music was you used in the fast-forward sections in this video.

Man, it's been a few years since I played Darksiders, but I had completely forgotten this place even existed.

Weeble
Feb 26, 2016
I love the Ashlands. I tend to always love desert aesthetic in video games.

Personally, it's the next area I completely forgot about and had to look up, but that won't be for a bit.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






KieranWalker posted:

I'm curious what the music was you used in the fast-forward sections in this video.

Man, it's been a few years since I played Darksiders, but I had completely forgotten this place even existed.
That was the instrumental version of Hot Wind Blowing, Khamsin's theme in Metal Gear Rising. (Check the Bladewolf DLC for that.) Artix actually used the MGR soundtrack before during a fast-forward segment; I don't remember which one, but it had The Stains of Time.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!

NGDBSS posted:

That was the instrumental version of Hot Wind Blowing, Khamsin's theme in Metal Gear Rising. (Check the Bladewolf DLC for that.) Artix actually used the MGR soundtrack before during a fast-forward segment; I don't remember which one, but it had The Stains of Time.

I'm not gonna lie, I came really close to using the instrumental version for the Ashlands and then the vocal version for the big setpiece in this video but...well, I think you'll see. Anyway, the "dungeon" part of the Ashlands (and I am using that term very loosely) is basically a series of kill rooms with fancier toys and set dressing so large parts of this video are on fast forward. I thought about just splitting it but honestly, best to just rip the band aid off at once.

:siren: Part 18: He Can't Kill *ALL* of Us :siren:

ZeButler
Oct 2, 2013

Man, it's killing me, because it sounds very familiar, but what's the song used during the first needle cannon segment?

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
Twilight Princess, Hidden Village. Where you hunt the cats and do a shooting minigame with the bokoblins.

ZeButler
Oct 2, 2013

Thank you, it was killing me not knowing it. Is it safe to assume all of the music used in this update was Zelda music?

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
Every song I've used has been either Zelda music or from a Platinum/Platinum-adjacent game. :ssh:

E: Last update specifically was TP, NierA, Ocarina, Hyrule Warriors, and Wind Waker.

Artix
Apr 26, 2010

He's finally back,
to kick some tail!
And this time,
he's goin' to jail!
:siren: Part 19: Light the Torches :siren:

I cannot believe I missed this puzzle the first time through, it is my eternal shame. :negative:

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KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
Ah, you're thinking of Lifegems in Dark Souls 2, Argate. They're definitely not the thing you want to be using in combat, although if you use multiple lifegems, the health regen actually speeds up.

The thing from Oni also kind of reminds me of Bloodborne, in which by whacking an enemy after you take damage, you can regain the health you just lost--but the way Bloodborne calculates "the health you just lost" is stupid. There are numerous enemies in the game that hit more than once with a single attack, and only the last hit can be healed that way; the end result is you face-tank an attack that does 40% of your health but because the strike "hits" multiple times, you only regain like 15%.

I'm trying to remember if Darksiders 2 had anything of the sort, but I haven't played that game in a number of years.

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