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There's no thread in this forum to discuss history and historical theories and the bullshit around what we consider the past. Churchill was a monster and I hate that there's movies lionizing him in this century. I'd rather have a Darkest Hour about Stalin recovering from his stupor after the Nazi invasion than another Churchill movie, even though Churchill murdered slightly fewer people.
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Mar 10, 2019 04:34
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Also how bout the Bagaudae?
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Mar 10, 2019 04:34
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delete this and make a HERstory thread
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Mar 10, 2019 04:46
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Mar 10, 2019 04:46
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whoa hello how did i miss this thread (its because i browse by control panel)
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Mar 18, 2019 21:26
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cspam has always been at war with chanasia
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Mar 18, 2019 21:29
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since it came up in the RLM gbs thread of all places (because I posted it) enjoy jonathan parshall telling you why american historians got the battle of midway so wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23vL8AvqbDc also here he is explaining why germany's war industry sucked total rear end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6xLMUifbxQ&t=1580s
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Mar 18, 2019 21:30
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Only 8 percent of high school seniors think that the Civil War was based on slavery (which it was) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-jtYT5COvU
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Mar 19, 2019 00:26
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History is a waste (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 19, 2019 01:34
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Lawman 0 posted:History is a waste im gonna waste you
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Mar 19, 2019 01:40
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Feldegast42 posted:Only 8 percent of high school seniors think that the Civil War was based on slavery (which it was) fun fact: a decent chunk of fires set/buildings after the burning of atlanta were actually set by confederate general wheeler in an attempt to deny resources to sherman's army. lost cause historians then amplified the damage done and blamed it all on sherman
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Mar 19, 2019 01:45
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Raskolnikov38 posted:fun fact: a decent chunk of fires set/buildings after the burning of atlanta were actually set by confederate general wheeler in an attempt to deny resources to sherman's army. lost cause historians then amplified the damage done and blamed it all on sherman Similarly: Grant wasn't actually a drunk. He was a lightweight who got stumbly after only a few drinks, but knowing this, he rarely had more than one or two drinks on those rare occasions he did imbibe. The only times this did not apply were a very few episodes in his life when he was away from his family and with nothing to keep him busy, such as when he was posted to remote billets out west after the Mexican American War (where he did get loaded a couple times, infuriating his teetotaler commander, who forced him out of the army as a consequence), and once during the siege of Vicksburg (if Sylvanus Cadwallader is to be believed). After the war, Lost Causers looking to build the Myth of Lee had to deal with the fact that Lee got his rear end kicked, and thus from these few instances invented the lie that Grant was just a drunken butcher who drowned the Army of Northern Virginia in his own mens' blood.
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Mar 19, 2019 02:03
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list some good books i recently read china mieville's book on the russian revolution and it was good currently reading this and its extremely dense and heavy going: https://www.amazon.ca/History-World-Agriculture-Neolithic-Current/dp/1583671218
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Mar 19, 2019 02:15
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shattered sword wages of destruction shelby foote's trilogy is good but with lost cause tendencies howard zinn's books are good intros shake hands with the devil: general dallaire's account of the rwandian genocide battlecry of freedom if you want a thorough history of the civil war in a single volume eh carr's what is history the 900 days the siege of leningrad poilu: the account of a barrel maker drafted into the french army for ww1 rick perlstein's trilogy covering 1960-1976 in american politics richard j evans third reich trilogy
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Mar 19, 2019 02:31
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Why did the US tolerate the existence of Fascist Spain, a nation which gave aid to their enemies in WW2, but didn't tolerate the existence of democratically elected socialist governments which had the support of the USSR, their loyal ally in WW2?
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Mar 19, 2019 03:13
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because fascist spain was willing to play ball during the cold war and let the US use spanish bases
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Mar 19, 2019 03:39
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Why did the US tolerate the existence of Fascist Spain, a nation which gave aid to their enemies in WW2, but didn't tolerate the existence of democratically elected socialist governments which had the support of the USSR, their loyal ally in WW2? Franco rose out of the ashes of the civil war and you can imagine how the US felt about his opponents, the revolutionary anarchists/semi-competent communists, so ofc they'd be at least ambivalent about his victory. on top of that, American politicans loved falangism, because they're also fascists
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Mar 19, 2019 03:41
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History doesn't spark joy. Throw it away
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Mar 19, 2019 03:43
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mila kunis posted:list some good books this is A voice from Harper's Ferry, an eyewitness account of John Brown's raid written by one of the two surviving raiders. it's free, it's in the library of congress, you can read the scan of the loc's copy at that address or download it. never settle for secondary sources in history, go primary or go home
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Mar 19, 2019 03:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:because fascist spain was willing to play ball during the cold war and let the US use spanish bases Additionally, Franco went out of his way to portray himself off as being a traditional conservative nationalist who'd played the falangists for chumps and then sidelined them once the civil war was over, which made his regime that much more palatable in the early Cold War.
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Mar 19, 2019 04:30
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i mean he did play the falange for chumps, eat poo poo mola
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Mar 19, 2019 04:54
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Still loling at the requirements he put out for participation in the axis.
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Mar 19, 2019 13:37
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i mean he did play the falange for chumps, eat poo poo mola Lawman 0 posted:Still loling at the requirements he put out for participation in the axis. Franco was an evil poo poo, but at bare minimum he can be credited for seeing fascism generally and the Axis in particular as a losing bet, and something to which he didn't want to shackle his regime too closely.
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Mar 19, 2019 16:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:shattered sword i have read both these books and they are both good, which bodes well for the rest of the recommendations poilu in particular is really good. dude is a perpetually cranky pacifist socialist who has zero enthusiasm for shooting at his fellow workers on the German side
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Mar 19, 2019 16:59
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i also recommend max hastings books despite his extreme toryness, except for catastrophe 1914. unless you've read the sleepwalkers and want to read a tory's angry defense of france and britain's imperial right to impose limits on germany
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Mar 19, 2019 22:17
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Let's talk about how victor davis Hanson is a goddamn moron
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Mar 19, 2019 23:24
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Raskolnikov38 posted:since it came up in the RLM gbs thread of all places (because I posted it) enjoy jonathan parshall telling you why american historians got the battle of midway so wrong I've literally read shattered sword like 3-4 times over like every time when I flipped a page into it I always end up reading until the last chapter or so
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Mar 19, 2019 23:25
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Lawman 0 posted:Let's talk about how victor davis Hanson is a goddamn moron VDH has lovely political opinions but I liked his book on the peleponesian war i also pirated the book
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Mar 19, 2019 23:25
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all i know is that he's a chud nerd what are VDH's Peloponnesian War takes what is his thesis why did he bother
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Mar 19, 2019 23:27
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my favorite part of shattered sword is how utterly disorganized US flight operations were and how utterly lovely Japanese air defense/damage control was like the US basically launched their squadrons piecemeal at the Japanese so they arrived over the Japanese fleet at different times which resulted in a couple of torpedo bomber squadrons annihilated for no damage done, but then when the US dive-bomber squadrons did limp into the fight in a semi-coherent manner the Japanese carriers were destroyed by damage which US carriers would have being able to withstand the Japanese Navy also had extremely problematic cultural attitudes among its commanders who basically refuse to fold even when they were beaten and just kept on pushing their remaining assets into a lost cause which just cause them to shove a carrier into the toilet pretty much Typo has issued a correction as of 23:34 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 23:31
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1994 Toyota Celica posted:all i know is that he's a chud nerd what are VDH's Peloponnesian War takes Athens was the stronger power but democracy was simultaneously their greatest strength and greatest weakness the naval battles were the most important hoplites were actually pretty useless sparta only won cuz the persians subsidized them it's basically a summation of Thucydides plus archaeological findings
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Mar 19, 2019 23:32
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1994 Toyota Celica posted:all i know is that he's a chud nerd what are VDH's Peloponnesian War takes basically he did some moderately interesting stuff on how agriculture affected greek warfare and then spent the rest of his career being a shithead
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Mar 19, 2019 23:32
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Typo posted:my favorite part of shattered sword is how utterly disorganized US flight operations were and how utterly lovely Japanese air defense/damage control was IJN: hmmm what if we make our hanger decks giant fuel air bombs? brilliant!
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Mar 19, 2019 23:34
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y'all should read the closed world by paul edwards, it's very good and has a lot of parallels with and continuities into current surveillance capitalism even tho it's from the 90's
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Mar 19, 2019 23:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:IJN: hmmm what if we make our hanger decks giant fuel air bombs? brilliant! tbf USN had the same problem to some extent just months before midway, but after the Lexington sank due to a fuel explosion they came up with new doctrine where they drained the fueling lines and filled it with CO2 to prevent fuel air explosions also the USN actually centered the battle doctrine on carriers because the ijn sank their battleships at perl, whereas even at Midway for the IJN battleships were still seen as the main weapon to win the battle with which resulted in the situation where the Japanese had like 5-6 battleships and the US had none by the second day and IJN couldn't do antyhing
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Mar 19, 2019 23:36
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it's basically a book about how people started thinking computers are good, actually, and how they were incredibly wrong about that has some good poo poo about STEMlords and also McNamara
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Mar 19, 2019 23:37
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let ww2 go already, enough has been said about it
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Mar 19, 2019 23:38
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Typo posted:my favorite part of shattered sword is how utterly disorganized US flight operations were and how utterly lovely Japanese air defense/damage control was I always get a chuckle at how poorly trained the Taiho's damage control crew was at Phillipine Sea when that one guy decided running the ventilation system at full blast was the best way to deal with vapor coming from the ruptured avgas system, thus distributing the fumes throughout the ship and turning it into essentially a floating bomb which subsequently, for lack of a better description, detonated.
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Mar 19, 2019 23:40
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Similarly: Grant wasn't actually a drunk. He was a lightweight who got stumbly after only a few drinks, but knowing this, he rarely had more than one or two drinks on those rare occasions he did imbibe. The only times this did not apply were a very few episodes in his life when he was away from his family and with nothing to keep him busy, such as when he was posted to remote billets out west after the Mexican American War (where he did get loaded a couple times, infuriating his teetotaler commander, who forced him out of the army as a consequence), and once during the siege of Vicksburg (if Sylvanus Cadwallader is to be believed). After the war, Lost Causers looking to build the Myth of Lee had to deal with the fact that Lee got his rear end kicked, and thus from these few instances invented the lie that Grant was just a drunken butcher who drowned the Army of Northern Virginia in his own mens' blood. grant was a good commander and crossing the james and pinning lee's army down at petersburg was war-winning move Myth of Lee was built mostly cuz Lee died very soon after the war so couldn't get himself involved in nasty post-war southern politics between various ex csa commanders
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Mar 19, 2019 23:40
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when it comes to the lost cause: it's no accident that two of its most revered figures: stonewall jackson and Lee, both during or soon after the war the lost cause was a function of the era post-war southern politics which lasted until the 1890s or so
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Mar 19, 2019 23:44
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