That Spooky Witch posted:

i didn't realize pitbull was into the underage

Wheeee posted:

we live in an era of unprecedented peace only in that most people don't comprehend the breadth of what constitutes violence

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/HiraethResists/status/1479117715558191104?s=20

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

those are Royal Marines lol

Ardennes posted:

It would have probably still been a grisly fight, at that point NATO still had enough numbers to seriously disrupt any offensive. However, pretty much all Soviet planning was reactive in anticipation of a NATO first strike.

Maybe the Warsaw Pact could have pushed through sheer weight if of numbers but with heavy causalities.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The Fulda Gap was the right place to anticipate confrontation with the Warsaw Pact for all sorts of geographical reasons. There's no way for instance that anybody was going to be doing amphibious exercises in the Arctic or the Pacific, without even knowing who could win the naval war. Central Asia was a non-starter because the terrain is too difficult for large scale operations. The rest of the "Iron curtain" in Europe wouldn't work for the same reasons. The relatively flat terrain of Northern Germany was the only way to go for a big conventional war.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Anywhere else the Soviets could've attacked would've been across mountains, and that's not happening. It's not like an Ardennes situation where the French thought it was literally impossible to drive tanks through the forest, it's that mountainous terrain is too defensible, and there's not enough room for maneuvering.

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, that might be a bit of an issue if you are fighting a power with an actual Air Force. (SHORAD is AA)

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, that if a bit of an issue considering the PLAAF is rapidly mirroring the capabilities of the USAF and at very least would deny the US air superiority (which would in turn neuter the US army’s offensive capabilities since they don’t really have any where the dedicated AA capabilities they need.)

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Loins Led by Donkeys would be a very different, way more offensive podcast.

Real hurthling! posted:

they should just make a missile that shits out a huge rear end cloud of radar visible crap over miles and miles and have some normal rear end jets fly through it so the anti air cant target them

by they i mean the level designers at bandai namco project aces cause that would be a fun ac level.

skooma512 posted:

Even the USAF themselves expected their A-10 force to be attrited to nothing within a couple weeks should the Soviets have come through the Fulda Gap. Especially since the Soviets/Russia invested heavily in anti-air platforms.

Danann posted:

crossposting from eurasia thread:

being good at fighting insurgencies means being bad at conventional fighting rip

Palladium posted:

And that was 2011

looking good for the troops and their wet dreams of owning russia

Frosted Flake posted:

Funny you should mention that, x-posting myself from the Eurasia thread about that broke-brained thinking:

The real hilarious poo poo is proposals like using Iron Dome and CRAM so that enemy artillery can just be ignored. This came about because at a certain point they gave up on trying to find Taliban mortars so, much like covid, they looked for ways To Live With The Shelling. I read a bunch of Max Boot rear end papers about how because the CRAM radar can track and engage x shells a minute, as long as we had enough we’d be invincible. Even more after the hype for Iron Dome. Okay, so ignore for a minute it’s not 100% reliable or effective, then scale up for all the troops you’d need to protect in a conventional heavy NATO formation, scale up again for the size of the threat and the “plan” would cost…

Keep in mind Russian 122mm and 152mm shells cost between $200-400 CAD. I think a 122mm Grad rocket is fairly cheap but rockets aren’t my thing. I used to have exact prices of shells from their export catalogues but that I probably can’t shitpost.

So, we thumb through Publicly available NATO articles on contemporary Russian artillery doctrine, and we see the problem - that’s a lot of shells and rockets!

Unit cost for the land based Phalanx is ~$7M CAD, Iron Dome costs ~$63M CAD for a battery, per-interception cost is ~$190K per interception. Iron Dome needs to be reloaded after every 20 shots, which apparently takes a long time and is a source of embarrassment for the Israelis in the same way the Gulf War revealed Patriots take forever and a day to reload.

Without trying to crunch the numbers on the rate of fire of a gun artillery battery, a single Grad launcher has 40 tubes, so a battery of equivalent strength can quite literally just overwhelm any single Iron Dome Battery or CRAM, both would be dry while more than half the rounds were still in the air. That’s ignoring modernized launchers with more tubes, that some batteries have 6 launchers, and the Russians often fire by Battalion.

That’s not even getting into the Iron Dome or CRAM radars being able to track and engage that many targets, which I doubt and has never been established to match Israeli claims, and the rate of fire for the Grad being several times higher than Iron Done. Iron Dome would cost $3.8M CAD per 20 rockets fired at it.

Do you see what I mean? NATO has leaned so heavily on throwing money and technology at problems that we have papers being put out that propose spending millions of dollars to still get shelled, while claiming that constitutes invulnerability to the point where enemy shelling no longer has to be planned around. Just sign the country over to Rafael if that’s what you’re proposing because I gave up on trying to calculate costs for this post.

How did we get here? Because CRAM worked successfully on an extremely limited scale in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Iron Dome has also partially worked on an even more limited scale in Israel. Because people are unable to differentiate in their approach to Russia from that, it creates this broken thinking. It’s a sickness, really. Russia is just the GWOT but bigger, so we don’t need to change anything, just do more. This is weird Natsec Atlantic Council thinking because it doesn’t account for any military reality, only a change in setting.

It’s like - and I don’t know how to communicate this - these NATO hawks, at least the ones writing papers - literally can’t conceive of NATO troops being shelled. They know “NATO Must Confront Russia” but when they envision it, it’s no different from “ISAF Must Confront The Taliban” so they just transpose all of it.

They write papers on the Russian military, but none of their proposals suggest we change anything in response to that, if that makes sense. Like when Brown Moses counts Russian tanks in a Motor Rifle Regiment, I genuinely don’t think he sees them as something that threatens NATO. He sees targets for NATO airstrikes in the same way he counted tanks in Syria. It just means more sorties for F-35’s ,to fly unopposed, just like a massive Russian artillery park just means we “simply” need more Iron Domes.

So yeah, that’s a lot of words to say I’ve had to keep up with some of this stuff, and there’s this… gap? Maybe? Between evaluation and response, and I can see how it shapes the conversation, but I have no idea what the gently caress is going on in there. The Doctrine Papers don’t make sense, the Policy Papers don’t make sense, and whatever is causing that disconnect, where the first half is a reasonable evaluation of the situation and the second half is fantasyland poo poo, that is going to be a big problem because it shows that there’s this thing getting in the way of decision making.

Frosted Flake posted:

The Georgian Army getting rolled up somehow doesn’t reflect their US support, training and equipment. The Iraqi army losing Abrams outside Mosul is already forgotten. If the Ukrainians get trashed and US equipment underperforms, for whatever intervening reason, it won’t be absorbed even after it’s observed.

Regarde Aduck posted:

From what i can find there isn’t one anymore. Just cancellation after cancellation until they threw up their hands and said ‘uh we’ll replace everything including the m1 in 2035’

Bar Ran Dun posted:

holy hell that guy is a hawk. Jesus Christ looking back through his published articles.

Fish of hemp posted:

Yes, that's Eurofighter.

Making modern fighter jet is hard.

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, it’s come up before but the Independence class was suppose to get the “good one” that was suppose to stay since the Freedom class was simultaneously being built and then decommissioned.

Real hurthling! posted:

this is the plan b to that

Breakfast All Day posted:

this one rots in seawater too. you might be confusing the new independence-class, which rots, and the new freedom-class, which rots, with the new zumwalt-class






which also rots




maybe you were thinking of the new ford-class





who only has problems with its elevators, electronics, piping, and mechanical systems rotting. the hull seems to be doing ok

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/BOK/status/1532108877394808840

it happened again

Rutibex posted:

wow globalism is a bitch eh. I guess you can't actually blockade half a continent

Filthy Hans posted:

don't forget the time an Iraqi in a Mig-25 Foxbat shot down an F/A-18 during the first gulf war, that was pretty lit

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/ira...n-desert-storm/

Pryor on Fire posted:

Let’s be real here, the Abrams is a super heavy tank and cannot cross any bridge in the USA without it collapsing.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Pentagon Wars sequel lookin' good

indigi posted:

Frosted Flake posted:

A bunch of them swamped in Normandy.

Frosted Flake posted:

Yes, and the weather on the American beaches was worse than expected, coupled with someone - it’s unclear who - ordering them to launch prematurely while too far off the beach. I forget if the landing craft were USN, USCG or RN, and it may have been an Army commander who told them to go early.

fits my needs posted:

https://twitter.com/Militarydotcom/status/1553089952438751233?s=20&t=L9BlviFntox9X0H52j2QNg

Frosted Flake posted:

That would be just one of what I seem to remember were several incidents of German passenger cars getting run over in II Corps.

I don’t know how Korea and Okinawa put up with it for so long.

gradenko_2000 posted:

how does Top Medic work