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Tato posted:Also pick any random Christian ECW title match you want, they were always fun. Zack Ryder still hasn't had a better match in almost a decade since. I'm pretty sure I posted one in this very thread  I feel like this entire thread could be about Christian.
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May 9, 2019 14:11
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If they brought back double axe handles then flying nothings could at least look like something.
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May 9, 2019 14:23
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Aphrodite posted:If they brought back double axe handles then flying nothings could at least look like something. I always appreciate when someone puts the effort in to make it look like they're doing a move. Sometimes it lines up beautifully, like Naito's flying tackle and Jericho's Codebreaker.
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May 9, 2019 14:59
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Any TNA recommendations? I've heard that Beer Money and the Motor City Machine Guns had an incredible multimatch series in the mid 00s.
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May 9, 2019 18:06
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Sanguinia posted:Any TNA recommendations? I've heard that Beer Money and the Motor City Machine Guns had an incredible multimatch series in the mid 00s. There's a Chris Sabin/Samoa Joe match very early in Joe's run that's just a great showcase for Joe while making Sabin look like a plucky babyface.
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May 9, 2019 23:51
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IcePhoenix posted:I'm pretty sure I posted one in this very thread
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May 10, 2019 00:36
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One of the first PWG shows i saw was Mystery Vortex III, and there was a match with Mike Bailey and Roderick Strong that blew me away. I had never even seen Bailey before and he looked like some dork in a gi and i didn't know too much about Roderick other than he was a typically cocky heel who talks like a valley girl. The match started in high gear with a roundhouse kick to Roddy's head and it never let up. One of my all time favorite matches. I miss Mike Bailey. Highlights are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvXRfERgt0
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May 10, 2019 00:55
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Strong is incredible at working with smaller guys like Bailey, it makes his offense look way more impressive and nasty
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May 10, 2019 00:57
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The fact that this thread is alive again is good because I have a question: how much do you folks know about French wrestling in the 60s, and how typical of the period are the following matches? (note that I don’t know dates or promotions, I just know that the following matches took place in France sometime in the 1960s) Gilbert Cesca vs. Billy Catanzaro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yuIyNG5v6M This is goddamn insane. The limbwork is so much faster than any Japanese match from the time, and their striking has so much speed and power behind it. At one point Cesca hits a spike Frankensteiner, and Catanzaro hits a Ganso Bomb. I feel like I really need to know more about the circumstances behind this match, but I don’t know where to look. (Doesn’t help that my French sucks lmao) Gilbert Cesca vs. Cheri Bibi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31kujoNvAA Once again, Cesca absolutely rules as an athletic wrestler, and Cheri Bibi is such an amazing monster heel here. The ending is amazing and really makes me want to know if they had a bigger feud, and it sucks to not have the context behind this match. Les Celtes vs. Jose Gonzales and Incas Viracocha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghb6l6elwQo Afaik this isn’t the man who killed Bruiser Brody. Anyway, a really good and well paced tag match here, especially with how well they come back to the head scissors each time.
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May 10, 2019 11:44
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I just watched that Horsemen vs. Windham/Blondes match and someone needs to bring back "TV time remaining." I'm sure Vince hates draws or whatever but it's a good way to sell a suspenseful match and tell a good story while putting both people over. If it's not overused it won't feel like a gently caress finish either. Do it AEW you cowards
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May 10, 2019 22:27
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weekly font posted:I just watched that Horsemen vs. Windham/Blondes match and someone needs to bring back "TV time remaining." I'm sure Vince hates draws or whatever but it's a good way to sell a suspenseful match and tell a good story while putting both people over. If it's not overused it won't feel like a gently caress finish either. Nah. Most of the time I've seen that used it ended in a draw, and took the air right out of the match.
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May 10, 2019 22:31
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Time Limits are good, and removing them just removes a lever with which to control/pace a match.
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May 10, 2019 22:34
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As with everything in Wrestling time limits when done right can add to a match. The time calls in the Okada/Omega draw just added to the tension near the end.
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May 11, 2019 00:16
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As with many things, WWE ruined time limits for American promotions, because now most only do it for things like Iron Man matches, or when they're doing a broadway, which DOES take the wind out of the match, but only because the crowd knows it's only used when they're not getting a finish. If you have it observed in every match, then it adds tension, like a TV show getting close to the top of the hour without resolving the heroes being in peril and then Riker goes "MR WORF? FIRE!" and OH poo poo, TO BE CONTINUED!.
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May 11, 2019 01:18
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The CWC and MYC had time limits. I don't think they ever factored in.
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May 11, 2019 01:41
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Aphrodite posted:The CWC and MYC had time limits. I don't think they ever factored in. And that's fine! If anything it sets a precedent and if they do another MYC and two of the women go the full 20 minutes or whatever, then you have the basis for a rematch, or a story where the heel gets a bye.
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May 11, 2019 01:47
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Time limits are good, but you have to fully commit to make it work. New Japan does time limits for literally every match, right down to the Young Lion openers with their 10-minute limits, and it perfectly weaves into the sports-like structure of the shows and gives the big matches palpable stakes. When Omega/Okada hit the 50-minute mark you can hear a gasp from the crowd once it seemed like a draw was a real possibility, and that added so much to the drama at the end. And it's a big part of what made their no-time-limit blowoff feel so special and unique, somehow increasing the suspense even further. But like I said, you have to fully commit. Too many promotions half-rear end or ignore it, and then they decide to book a time-limit draw and give away the finish by screaming out "10 MINUTES PASS" when you've never heard that on the rest of the show.
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May 11, 2019 05:07
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Strong is incredible at working with smaller guys like Bailey, it makes his offense look way more impressive and nasty It’s funny because I always thought Roderick was huge compared to most of the guys he went up against in his ROH days but he’s only like 5’10, he just had such a great presence and physicality. Well and people like Bryan Danielson were smaller and less bulky than him, but it’s still interesting how well he was able to seem so much larger than he was
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May 11, 2019 21:32
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Aesop Poprock posted:It’s funny because I always thought Roderick was huge compared to most of the guys he went up against in his ROH days but he’s only like 5’10, he just had such a great presence and physicality. Well and people like Bryan Danielson were smaller and less bulky than him, but it’s still interesting how well he was able to seem so much larger than he was Yeah, my first positive exposure (I saw him have a really boring 50 minute match with Danielson) to Roddy was him throwing Amazing Red around. And he's tiny. So it made Roddy look way bigger because I'd pretty much forgotten the Dragon match other than remembering hating it.
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May 11, 2019 23:16
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Low Desert Punk posted:i don't usually bump threads this dead but this thread has shown me so many good matches and I don't want it to die This absolutely rules and on the subject of old wrestlers putting on great matches, it reminds me that we don't talk enough about the great matches Genichiro Tenryu put on in his 50s: Genichiro Tenryu vs. Keiji Mutoh, AJPW Super Power Series 2001 Day 10: Super Power In Budokan, June 8th 2001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNg85R893Fc Tenryu is 51 years old at this point, and he's in his second reign as Triple Crown champ, which began after an 11 year gap. Keiji Mutoh is, if nothing else, the flashy fucker who thinks he can put an end to that. I say that because everything about his offense in this match screams style and pizzazz, whereas Tenryu fights as though he's the same Tenryu he was in 1989, and that's loving incredible too. It feels like he hasn't lost a single beat, and it's amazing to see him fighting at such a high level. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Satoshi Kojima, AJPW Summer Action Series Day 9, July 17th 2002 https://rutube.ru/video/590a6a80b081ba2cb82894c2b6149cf3/ Another incredible Triple Crown match between Tenryu and the ace in waiting, Satoshi Kojima. If you've seen a Kojima match from the past few years, you know exactly what to expect, and he does all the slaps and the elbows and the 'icchauzo bakayaro's, but this just proves his immense worth and skill as a singles wrestler. Once again, Tenryu is a very intimidating and skillful opponent, and again, he's 52 years old at this point. Just as essential as any other Tenryu match. Genichiro Tenryu & Jun Akiyama vs. Go Shiozaki & Kenta Kobashi, NOAH Encountering Navigation 2005 Day 15, April 24th 2005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwQACfKMW-8 Finally, Tenryu is 55 and he's STILL amazing. He's up against Kobashi here, who still fires chops as hard as cannonballs, and Go Shiozaki, who's in the first year of his career and is absolutely phenomenal in his role as the plucky young rookie. Tenryu's joined by Jun Akiyama, who relishes the chance to beat up Kobashi and this young boy, and he's just a brilliant heel here. Basically, Tenryu was the GOAT old wrestler, and it's a drat shame that circumstances meant Jumbo couldn't share that title with him.
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May 14, 2019 19:02
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I present to this thread a tag match from the 1987 Crockett Cup: Brad and Bullet Bob Armstrong vs. Tully Blanchard and Lex Luger The Armstrongs play face and heel simultaneously in this match - they're the faces, but there is a very loud section of Horsemen fans in the crowd, so the Armstrongs milk both reactions by beating the poo poo out of Tully and preventing him from tagging Lex, which drives the Horsemen fans nuts waiting for the tag and delights everyone else because they get to see the most obnoxious Horseman get wailed on for an extended length of time. Just awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0BtVXtdamg
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May 15, 2019 18:00
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I've been catching up on the matches posted in this thread and I got to the Christian/Orton series from 2011 which brought back some good memories. If you can track it down I'd suggest Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler from August 29 2011 Raw. Orton was never as good as he was in 2011, he was fast, a face and gave a poo poo about putting on great matches. Dolph also still gave a poo poo at this point and the two open up Raw with a hot crowd and create magic. I'd never been a huge Orton fan but this match made me go back and watch his series with Christian. Orton makes Ziggler look like a star before putting him away in a non title match.
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Jan 26, 2020 20:24
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My previous post got me thinking about Randy Orton matches that are actually good. I rewatched Randy Orton vs Triple H for the world title at Royal Rumble 2005. It's obviously the usual placeholder Royal Rumble title match but this might be HHHs best non-Batista match of 2005. Just like Ambrose v HHH at Roadblock a few years ago, there were points in this I believed Orton was actually going to win it. Orton does a good job as a face in this one despite being unsuited for the role in 2005. Hunner has always heavily protected himself in his matches with Orton but even so they have a good match here, Orton in 2005 still wasn't ready for the Game. Watching this in January 2020 revealed to me that this is the kind of match 2019 Triple H believes he's having when he steps back in the ring every Wrestlemania.
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Jan 26, 2020 22:16
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I remember liking Orton vs. Mick Foley in 2004 or 2005. A lot of that hardcore wrestling grosses me out though so I don't know if I could go back to watch it.
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Jan 26, 2020 22:28
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mariooncrack posted:I remember liking Orton vs. Mick Foley in 2004 or 2005. A lot of that hardcore wrestling grosses me out though so I don't know if I could go back to watch it. Was going to mention that one, I think it was Backlash 2004? Not sure if it's really underrated though since it was highly regarded at the time and people were just as impressed by Mick's willingness to make Orton look like a star as they were by Orton's obvious potential. Foley also got into ridiculously good shape at the time if I remember right.
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Jan 26, 2020 22:33
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Jerusalem posted:Was going to mention that one, I think it was Backlash 2004? Not sure if it's really underrated though since it was highly regarded at the time and people were just as impressed by Mick's willingness to make Orton look like a star as they were by Orton's obvious potential. Foley also got into ridiculously good shape at the time if I remember right. It's Backlash 2004. Foley also went on to have an hardcore match against Edge at Wrestlemania 26 which is actually Mick Foley's greatest Wrestlemania match.
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Jan 26, 2020 22:54
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That's the one with the flaming table bump, right?
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Jan 26, 2020 23:40
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Jerusalem posted:That's the one with the flaming table bump, right? Yeah. Watching Edge and Foley in the aftermath is horrifying, they both shake like they're in shock (which they might be)
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Jan 26, 2020 23:42
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Yeah. Watching Edge and Foley in the aftermath is horrifying, they both shake like they're in shock (which they might be) I'd wager Mick's just selling, but Edge, decent an actor as he is, probably isn't, because diving face first into fire has got to be a pretty messed up thing to tell your body to do.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:27
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Triple H's three matches at No Mercy 2007 actually form a really good wee storyline Randy Orton was awarded the WWE title, then Triple H won it off him, then he had to defend it against Umaga and Orton again in a Last Man Standing match that night by the end of the night, both Orton and Triple H have hosed up limbs that they immediately go to work on at the start of the LMS, none of the bullshit, but Orton's fresher and he wins after an RKO on the announce table taken separately, they kinda suck, but when watched all together as a mini storyline, I genuinely feel like they were Triple H's last great singles matches until Bryan at WM30
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Jan 27, 2020 03:47
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Venomous posted:Triple H's three matches at No Mercy 2007 actually form a really good wee storyline Yeah Orton and Trips worked really fuckin well off of one another.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:39
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I've watched a few matches that I think are apt for this thread. The Hardy Boyz vs Edge and Christian: Raw 26/09/00 I was skimming through random Raw and Smackdowns from 2000 looking for Raven's first appearance (he comes out of the crowd and DDTs Lawler), when I came across this. I was very surprised with how much time these were given on a random Raw. It's the night after the Hardyz win the tag belts on Unforgiven in a cage match but nobody phones it in here. This might have been the first Raw on TNN. Steve Corino vs CW Anderson: ECW Anarchy Rulz 2000 Corino bleeds, Anderson hits heavy sick sounding moves. It's a #1 contenders match for the ECW world title. Anderson at one point punts a chair into Corino's head. The finish is a bit abrupt but it's good. Christian vs Cody Rhodes - Over the Limit 2012 Cody accidentally talked himself into this match as Christian was due to wrestle the US Champion (after winning a battle royal) but opted to face Intercontinental champion Cody instead. Cody poo poo talked North Carolina and how his dad refused to allow young Cody to come to NC for some reason 😉 Christian was really something as a midcard singles face and I miss him. Raven vs Saturn - Fawl Brawl Wargames 1998 If Saturn wins, then Raven's Flock must disband. If Raven wins, then Saturn must become Raven's slave for the rest of his wrestling career. Kanyon is handcuffed to the ring post. This match is completely overbooked but in a good way. Even though the end result is obvious, I bit on two false finishes.
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Sep 1, 2020 01:07
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I'm glad you bumped this because I'd forgotten about this thread. KENTA vs Minoru Suzuki: NOAH Shiny Navigation 2005, Night 7, 27/08/05 I talked about this in the New Japan thread but it's still on my mind. It's the only singles match these 2 have ever had, KENTA had just won his first GHC Junior Heavyweight title the month previously from Yoshinobu Kanemaru, kind of the run that really established him as one of the best wrestlers in the world. Minoru Suzuki is only 2 years back into his pro wrestling comeback after a decade long sabbatical in the world of MMA & he's a reigning GHC Tag Team champion (with KENTA's longtime rival Naomichi Marufuji). Video starts with promos from both guys, Suzuki is very much the crazy old Suzuki we all love to this day, KENTA has a lot less chaotic energy in his delivery than he has these days & it comes across a bit workmanlike. We get the 2 entrances, Suzuki out first to an early version of Kaze Ni Nare which the crowd are really into. The crowd are big into this whole thing & they are absolutely pro-KENTA. Sure, he's a prick but he's their prick. KENTA comes out and as soon as he gets in the ring just starts attacking MiSu & if you expect this match to be very hard hitting then you are going to get what you want. Big PKs. Heavy slap exchanges. A couple of very stiff dropkicks from Suzuki, especially one in the corner, more & more vicious kicks, and at one point Suzuki goes from the rear naked choke into a nasty looking judo-throw. KENTA sells so well as well as hitting unbelievably hard. And all in under 16 minutes bell to bell. For a match that no one actually talks about I thought it was great fun while not being among both men's best matches. Still well worth a watch.
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Sep 1, 2020 01:30
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The match that got me into Japanese wrestling was Katsuyori Shibata vs Hirooki Goto from Wrestle Kingdom 8 and I don't think enough people talk about how loving good that match was. No titles on the line, just two dudes fighting to prove who's best and probably the reason I'm still a Goto mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2WI4rN6tM4 Also digging back into my BritWres knowledge and working to not include any loving pedophiles, Mark Andrews vs Chris Hero from Super Strong Style 2016 was a star-making performance. Hero was one of the best wrestlers in the world in 2016 and that match had me convinced that Mark Andrews could kick out of anything that was thrown at him. EDIT: Also another star-making performance, WALTER vs Ilja Dragunov in the finals of wXw's 2017 16 Carat Gold tournament. I'd seen WALTER wrestle before as Big Daddy Walter in the Atlas Tournament in PROGRESS, but this is where that main event style comes into its own. Dragunov is just this insane little Russian guy getting chopped bloody and they have this entire crowd eating out of the palm of their hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaEkHH-nKMM Lumbermouth fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Sep 1, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 01:32
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Surely WWE were going for Walter vs Dragunov on NXT UK if the pandemic hadn't interrupted?
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Sep 1, 2020 02:01
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Surely WWE were going for Walter vs Dragunov on NXT UK if the pandemic hadn't interrupted? Probably, in the classic “years after it happened in other companies” NXT booking style.
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Sep 1, 2020 02:03
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Have my favorite joshi singles match ever, as Aja Kong and Yumiko Hotta try to murder each other: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD_29guJcWU
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Sep 1, 2020 02:45
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Lumbermouth posted:Also digging back into my BritWres knowledge and working to not include any loving pedophiles, Mark Andrews vs Chris Hero from Super Strong Style 2016 was a star-making performance. Hero was one of the best wrestlers in the world in 2016 and that match had me convinced that Mark Andrews could kick out of anything that was thrown at him. These matches are loving awesome. Andrews/Hero has one of the best underdog performances I've ever seen from Andrews and his best overall performance ever. This match is one of my favourite Progress matches of all time and checks notes ...probably the only one that doesn't feature a guy involved in #SpeakingOut? Ouch. Okay, wait no, WALTER vs Timothy Thatcher (Progress Chapter 62) exists. A violent affair between stablemates, snug mat work, brutal strikes all the way, molten hot crowd and the best call of Glen Joseph's announcing career "HE CHOPPED HIM IN THE loving FACE". The best match of 2018, kiss my buttocks Omega/Okada. Hero in 2015-2016 could do no wrong and you could probably fill this thread from matches from that period (vs Tommy End in PWG and Progress, vs ZSJ in PWG and Evolve, vs Speedball in PWG etc. etc. etc...) The same goes for Roderick Strong. His first match with Sabre at PWG Don't Sweat the Technique is an absolute banger and THE match that started the ZSJ hype train back in the day. Also, a few Dragon Gate matches that come to mind. I watched some old Dead or Alive events when they were free to watch from DG Network and stumbled into Kagetora vs Takehiro Yamamura for the Brave Gate title from Dead or Alive 2016. An excellent match and a sign of what could have been with Yamamura. Also from 2016 is the match that made me a DG fan for life. Dia Hearts vs VERSERK vs Monster Express in a Unit Bisbands Elimination Three Way 12-Man Tag Match. The first team that is eliminated is forced to disband. An excellent example of the Dragon System style. No one does multi-person tags as well as Dragon Gate.
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Sep 1, 2020 10:49
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Scott Steiner vs Goldberg - No Disqualification match, Fall Brawl 2000 I've been having random WCW shows playing as background noise but this match really suckered me in. It's the irresistible force meets the immovable object. Goldberg is invincible but Steiner is his toughest opponent to date. Steiner is clever, dangerous and insane. There's a lot of interference I could have done without but Goldberg breaking the Steiner Recliner and launching Scott across the ring got a pop out of me.
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Sep 14, 2020 16:06
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Scott Steiner, god bless him, was still busting his rear end in death-era WCW and may have been the last guy really putting in effort on a nightly basis. He was just chucking guys all over.
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Sep 14, 2020 16:24
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