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Will You Miss Indie Wrestling?
No it sucked
Yes
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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Is MLW not an indie?

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Y'all wanna' watch Battle Riot in about an hour?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYvF7bF3kKk

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Battle riot was okay.

I have a hard time caring about indies that just try to do WWE but with lower production values.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

El Gallinero Gros posted:

...that's not really remotely accurate. I don't even particularly care for MLW, but their strategy thus far has been "push talented malcontents, unknowns and lucha guys".

What about that says "WWE wannabes"? That's ECW's playbook.
I wasn't clear. I don't so much mean the talent they have signed or are pushing, or even non-backstage stuff at all, really. But remember how Nitro, and before a certain point, WWF, had Mene Gene or somebody else conducting all of the backstage interviews, and wrestlers would talk to the camera or Gene instead of pretending there were no cameras present? And if somebody was a stinker of a promo, he'd try to get them through it, and then they probably wouldn't get the opportunity to talk again?

That's my jam. It makes things look like a sport, no matter how outlandish things occasionally get, and it gives people a net to work over.

Now, Lucha Underground and then later TNA went full-on telenovella presentation with the backstage stuff which is so far in the other direction, and I don't like that either, but at least it's different than WWE's approach, for better or worse.

Backstage skits with people who can't act their way out of a paper bag just make me cringe. It's not fun to watch. It's like going to a bad improv show where you're just embarrassed for everybody involved and want to squirm out of your seat.

The wrestling's great, and Schiavone and Cornette have made everything that isn't backstage into a very watchable show, but I just can't stand that WWE style backstage stuff.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

El Gallinero Gros posted:

What's this about Page being a transphobe though? That's not good.
I'd wager most wrestlers are transphobes and it makes me sad.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

I think NienNumb died midway through posting.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Cornette called him a professional malcontent and time seems to have proven him right on that one.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

I'm never watching another episode of MLW until they take that loving air horn away from that rear end in a top hat who honks it the entire loving show.

Jesus Christ, have some quality control.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oV4IVy8tvE&t=71s

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

coconono posted:

Low Ki was making dates for MLW last I checked.
Low Ki, like Austin Aries, makes dates until he gets mad about something, which is actually an admirable quality in a human being, because workers are exploited far too often.

Unfortunately, in both cases, it happens with a degree of regularity that calls their credibility into question.

It doesn't help that they both take themselves way too seriously and have giant egos.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

MassRafTer posted:

List of the worst wrestlers on the planet:

#1: Sami Callihan
#2: Super Pinocho
#3: Super Muneco
#4: Jimmy Havoc
#5: Bray Wyatt
Like, in Kayfabe?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

MassRafTer posted:

Cornette occupies the same exact space in wrestling that Russo did a few years ago.
It was really bizarre to watch this happen.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Cornette had his chance to show he wasn't just an old crank who can't accept that it isn't 1983 anymore when AEW started up and no, he just proved he hates everything he isn't booked on.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Sub Rosa posted:

But... He has watched every show and not hated it? Had mostly very sensible criticisms?
You mean his big homophobic/transphobic rant about Double or Nothing where he said the only thing he liked was Dustin/Cody?

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

My views align with Cornette's on what wrestling should be, but he's a queerphobic douche who hates everything and it wasn't so much him making GBS threads on AEW that made me realize he was biased to gently caress, but how much he praises MLW despite the fact that they do all the same poo poo he claims to hate.

Edit: That, and somebody linking that Ninja Turtle video.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Tables always made sense in the ECW arena because it was a bingo hall, and on indy shows, they use them to do meet and greets and signings and concessions, but why are there just random tables under every ring that just, like, live there on wrestling shows?

Doors are an even bigger stretch and don't make sense at all ever.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

forkboy84 posted:

It's wrestling, some things aren't worth overthinking. They are there because it looks cool and is relatively safe when people are thrown through them.
I don't completely disagree, but it's a symptom of a greater problem. We say "just don't think about it" a lot in wrestling, and I honestly believe it's one of the biggest barriers of entry to creating new fans.

When you bring friends over to watch wrestling who only know who Hulk Hogan and The Rock and sometimes Goldberg and Austin are, the more times you have to say "I know it doesn't make sense, but just go with it" the less likely they're going to buy in.

The filing of most wrestling shows from the past few decades is they're seriously unapproachable. They're too long, they don't make sense, and they're full of things that we've all become numb to that just shouldn't happen very often if at all.

Up to a point, you should produce every wrestling show like it might be somebody's first. Superhero comics used to do that, and the moment they stopped, they began their long slide into irrelevance and subsequent rebirth into just being an idea farm for more popular media.

Similarly, to hold on to those fans, things need to matter, so the events of the past have to have weight. It's a balancing act. But making a show that makes sense, is approachable, and has continuity isn't some far-flung pipe dream. It's entirely possible to do.

If you make a show just for wrestling fans, the only people who'll watch it are people who are already wrestling fans.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

lost my old email posted:

gently caress irish whips shoot style all the way baby but that battleARTS kind of style where you mix in all the other poo poo it is weird & good and i think jeff hardy was actually in battleARTS in his backyarder gimmick
Sure, if you're picking fights with straw people? As long as we're doing that, how dare you call my mom a whore. Clearly you're too upset to be arguing.

There's conceits and then there's conceits. You're never going to have a version of pro wrestling that's realistic. That's not at all what I'm talking about. Tables aren't even a hill I'd die on here, by any stretch. They're just one example of a greater ethos that's been slowly taking over wrestling and that's the issue of cargo culting. Somebody said it about Dolph Ziggler earlier and I've got it on the brain.

Wrestling keeps doing things because it's been doing them without thinking of if it should, or why, or when. Too many things happen just because they happen. Every promo in WWE gets interrupted. Nobody ever comes to the ring, says a thing, then leaves, leaving us wanting more. Why are we doing this? Because we've been doing this. Because Austin and McMahon did this and it worked then, so that's what we'll keep doing because we know it works. Only it doesn't work.

That's more my point.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Then I'll just take my combative tone and see myself out!

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

coconono posted:

Tessa acts like most dudes in wrestling but is the only one that gets poo poo for it.
Sorta' like how people weirdly take management's side on Sasha Banks.

I wonder why that could be.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

At Defy with TTBF and holy poo poo, I've been missing out not going. Jeff Cobb vs. Cody Chhun was loving incredible.

born on a buy you posted:

DEFY is getting too violent. A hobby horse and razor scooter were used in a tag match.
That hardcore match was fantastic at walking the line of "looks brutal, totally safe."

LividLiquid fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Feb 22, 2020

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

TTBF posted:

E: Gunz vs Amarilla went way too long
We got to a point that I turned to TTBF and said "this is getting long in the tooth," and they replied, "I'd yell 'go home,' but in this context that'd be bad.

Insufferable SJW I am, it still took me a second to realize the why of it:

One of the teams was two Mexicans.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

KungFu Grip posted:

Mr Mecha Wolf 450 is a piece of poo poo so heckling him at any moment is justified.
Gonna' say yelling "go home" to a Mexican person is always bad.

Shouldn't be a controversial take, but here we are.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Super No Vacancy posted:

he's not mexican
Then I don't understand the response to "we didn't yell 'go home' to the Mexicans because of the non-wrestling meaning" being "this person is a piece of poo poo, so heckling him is okay."

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

I'm so lost in this exchange.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Aye Doc posted:

you usually are
Who even are you?

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LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

We JUST became friends and started going to indy shows.

I'm sorry my bad luck has killed wrestling and caused a pandemic, y'all.

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