|
Arven posted:How do kindergartens work with regard to transport? Do they always have to be within walking distance of home, or can the kids commute as students? I've never thought to test it. conveyor belt The General posted:How the heck do I build a sewage discharge? It says some has to be in the water, and some on land. No matter how I angle it it's never correct. The problem I keep running into with sewage is accidentally building some of the lines sloped in the wrong direction, so instead of pumping the poo poo from the city to the treatment plant I instead pump all the sewage out of all the buildings in one half of the city and into all the buildings in the other half, and I don't notice until all the accidental-destination buildings are overflowing and then backfilling and also overflowing the source buildings
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 05:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
I think I'm just gonna turn off sewage for this run, the slope stuff is too fiddly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 05:58
|
|
|
You get used to the slope stuff for sewage and there’s a lot of ways to exploit what amount to glitches or bugs to overlap busy underground infrastructure, but honestly water and sewer end up so binary I can’t find any convincing argument to convince someone to include them in their game unless you just want all the bells and whistles. Other than industries that don’t use a lot of water and sewage for workers, there’s no chance water and sewage trucks keep up with any residential areas. Since there’s not really anything but piping from a limited handful of buildings and then piping out to a handful of others, the only interesting element is trying not to overbuild it - but there’s not enough information to know that point. Unless you’re doing some self imposed high efficiency set up, you’re going to settle on mostly medium and large piping and the workforce isn’t dramatic to build a large instead of small water or sewage treatment. If you try to get too cute, people get massively unhappy to a point that’s only beaten by heating in terms of escape and death waves, and if you efficiently succeed you save what, a few hundred tons of prefabs and steel? Maybe? And then once everything works you never interact with it again except that you need to make sure one of your “city goods” is also chemicals. For myself I like having the extra care, and I don’t mind having another thing to consider for land usage - the sewage treatment is big and wells can suck chemicals if they aren’t relatively remote - but in the end it doesn’t have a lot of design beyond “it works or it doesn’t”
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 06:22
|
|
|
ZombyDog posted:Babies don't commute Please file a bug report with the devs 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 07:40
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Small aircraft don't feel like they really have a place, yeah. Maybe if you want to do aesthetic tourist areas, but even those require significant staff that you probably want to house on site, and then need to service that is probably difficult to plane in. All of the "very small" labor requirement industries aren't things that you want remote: I don't need to produce asphalt and cement in nowheresville. Remote work sites beg for some kind of locational importance. Technically you could be ferrying lumber workers out somewhere, but you can also just plant trees. Oil fields don't require workers, and the only other location specific resources are mines that need dedicated trains or tons of trucks on a constant clip. Small planes essentially don't work because convenience isn't a factor in game for the citizens and most industries area manpower heavy anyway. IRL, we can shuttle people by plane to industry sites because it eat much less of their personal time and many industry like mines have reduced manpower requirement via mechanization. In game, the train line hauling the output of the factory can be used to shuttle workers because they don't care for the 5 hours total commutes one way and the other way not existing. You could make a case to use them for modded hydro plant if their geographical location make it painful to run a line of any type there since power lines are decently forgiving on terrain and they require no other "input" than the manpower. The only other industry with location requirement are mines and oil, both of which have metric rear end ton worth of products to haul away and one does not even require workers to run.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 08:23
|
|
|
The first campaign is at once both hand holdy and not at all ( build a food factory and make 50 food, but don't bring up the point that you will need to get workers into your factory ), but does make a point to tell you that babies will not catch a bus.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 08:56
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:You get used to the slope stuff for sewage and there’s a lot of ways to exploit what amount to glitches or bugs to overlap busy underground infrastructure, but honestly water and sewer end up so binary I can’t find any convincing argument to convince someone to include them in their game unless you just want all the bells and whistles. Other than industries that don’t use a lot of water and sewage for workers, there’s no chance water and sewage trucks keep up with any residential areas. Since there’s not really anything but piping from a limited handful of buildings and then piping out to a handful of others, the only interesting element is trying not to overbuild it - but there’s not enough information to know that point. Unless you’re doing some self imposed high efficiency set up, you’re going to settle on mostly medium and large piping and the workforce isn’t dramatic to build a large instead of small water or sewage treatment. If you try to get too cute, people get massively unhappy to a point that’s only beaten by heating in terms of escape and death waves, and if you efficiently succeed you save what, a few hundred tons of prefabs and steel? Maybe? And then once everything works you never interact with it again except that you need to make sure one of your “city goods” is also chemicals. I wish they had an intermediate difficulty step for water/sewage like they do for some other settings where it only applied to industries. Supplying industrial quantities of water and treating waste products seems like it would be interesting, but not nearly interesting enough to deal with sewage for every city.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 12:18
|
|
|
The construction hurdle (materials and time ) of long pipes is not insignificant on cosmo starts That is about the only game impact they have. The facilities suck up some workers and use chemicals
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 13:10
|
|
|
With the sewage discharge I found the answer was turn on the topography and start terraforming
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 14:15
|
|
|
I, uh, should check my sewage system because p sure I just dragged a pipe from the substation across the map to the discharge and called it a day 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 14:36
|
|
|
As long as the discharge is downhill from the tank that's all you need, although you are dumping raw sewage into the local water supply which isn't ideal. The problem comes when you are working in a hilly area and do not plan for the fact that the poo poo must always flow downhill. It makes sense and is kind of an interesting design problem that justifies having separate water and sewage systems, instead of just abstracting them into a single 'pipe' system like most city builders do. You cannot, in general, pressurize sewage systems, because if the sewer is under pressure, the pressurized sewage is going to flow up and out through the paths of least resistance, i.e. people's drains and toilets (there are ways to make a pressurized sewage system and some do exist, but they're definitely less common). A gravity sewer just has the pipes go downhill, and this is the kind of sewer system simulated in the game (it's also the most common type in use in the world in real life). The sewer pumps in the game are what are more commonly called 'lift stations' in real life, and their purpose is not to provide pressure to the system, it's to move the sewage up vertically, either to extend the range of the line without having to get unreasonably deep, or to allow the sewage to go uphill. If you're clever, you can almost completely avoid needing pumps, by making sure your outflow and treatment plant are at the lowest elevation on the map, and that your lines are routed starting at the highest elevation and then everything set up to flow steadily down from there. If you set it up right gravity will get the poop to its final destination all on its own. If you don't, or can't because of some quirk of the geography, you might have to spend a bunch of time fiddling with chaining together zig-zag patterns of pumps to try to move the sewage uphill. You can also in theory truck sewage out, but in practice the only use case I've found for this is for very early game on realistic mode starts, to ensure everyone doesn't get sick and die before you get the actual sewers constructed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 20:03
|
|
|
I have played a few games with water/sewage and I no longer have it active. It just adds very little and offers very few interesting choices. Once you have solved the fundamental structural problem once, you just have to reapply it everywhere. Electricity and heat suffer from similar issues, but to much lesser degrees.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 21:18
|
|
|
Is it ever profitable to import waste, recycle it, and then sell it back? If so, which is better for this - plastic waste or metal scrap? I've never quite mathed it out, but in my latest run I tried it for a while but found that the margins were actually pretty bad given the conversion ratio. I want to build my republic on a pile of garbage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 01:23
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:Is it ever profitable to import waste, recycle it, and then sell it back? If so, which is better for this - plastic waste or metal scrap? I've never quite mathed it out, but in my latest run I tried it for a while but found that the margins were actually pretty bad given the conversion ratio. W&R Soviet Republic: I want to build my republic on a pile of garbage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 01:32
|
|
|
Is there a mod to let me survey resources from the start of the game? Infact, is there a good modlist of QoL or "essential mods" like in cities skylines?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 01:42
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:W&R Soviet Republic: I want to build my republic on a pile of garbage. W&R Soviet Republic: Poop and Garbage
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 02:25
|
|
|
Horsebanger posted:Is there a mod to let me survey resources from the start of the game? Turning off research allows you to see everything from the start of the game, otherwise I've seen a couple streamers use the cheat menu to scan out resource locations at the start of a new map so they can plan their expansions accordingly. As for an essential modlist I haven't seen one, it's very much going to be a case of hey this conveyor tower is really annoying me because the road attachment is right under the conveyor attachment and rotating the building isn't allowing for a clean build, let's see what's available off the workshop kind of deal. For example I've been using the overhead pipeline crossing mod in my current game, but only because I had a situation where I wanted to run roads and rail through an oilfield and didn't want to go with underground pipes. There are also smaller/larger versions of buildings if you only have room for a small gravel factory or technical university. It's very much a case of looking for things to fit your personal tastes / aesthetics or to solve a particular problem you're having right now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 02:33
|
|
|
Horsebanger posted:Is there a mod to let me survey resources from the start of the game? There's no mod for that, but as ZombyDog said you can just slap research off initially, check out an area, then slap it back on. There are some mods for 'prospecting tools' which are just dummy buildings you can hover over an area to see what the area would look like without having to use the mine which may require terrain leveling. I made a *decent* modlist, but its out of date now. There's a handful of items in here that don't work well with realistic mode (certain decorative ploppables really can only be bought, and because of that are also basically broken with maintenance.) There's also some others that are purely decorative, like a handful of the advertisements, that were never updated for loyalty and don't count as monuments, while others do. I just checked everything quickly and took out a few really bad ones that are outright broken in the latest version. The vehicles, too, I've kind of changed my opinion of some that are of low quality, but I left them for now. I've gotten rid of a few things in these packs and added a limited number of new ones, but this is at least a decent filter of a wide spread of quality stuff. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2952396400 The only other caveat is that Robs had some buildings in his pack that's in my list that were added to the vanilla game. Some, there are changes to the vanilla buildings or not all are included. If you REALLY don't like duplicate buildings in your lists, the thing to do is sub to all of his buildings, then find his collection of duplicates that are "safe to unsubscribe" but if you don't care, just sub all on his stuff. His stuff is great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 03:50
|
|
|
Ugh I think my workers keep dying on the bus on the way to the clothes fabric food alcohol super factory. They keep arriving half full despite hundreds of workers waiting at the bus stop so I'm pretty sure they're just timing out on the timer for getting to work. Does this mean I need to make trams? Or upgrade roads to asphalt? Is there is a simple way to get rid of road nodes other than delete the whole loving thing? Asproigerosis fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Feb 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 04:16
|
|
|
Asproigerosis posted:Ugh I think my workers keep dying on the bus on the way to the clothes fabric food alcohol super factory. They keep arriving half full despite hundreds of workers waiting at the bus stop so I'm pretty sure they're just timing out on the timer for getting to work. Does this mean I need to make trams? Or upgrade roads to asphalt? Depends on your setup. If vehicles aren’t hitting max speed, then upgrading roads helps a ton. Gravel and dirt also seem to take worse hits at night and during weather, I think? There’s a tool under road signs to join segments. I forget what it’s called, top right in the sub menu I think?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 05:03
|
|
|
They don't die, just respawn at home angry about being unemployed. This holds true whether they despawned from the bus/train because they were on it for 5 hours, or the platform because they were on it for an hour--especially if you haven't turned off leisure use you can get deceptively large crowds that may or may not even board (since leisure users IIRC just run down their priority list before despawning at hour 8, and may even crowd out the platform max capacity.) But I believe also there's some level of job reservation once you're in transit to avoid sending useless extra loads, and if 500 people are perpetually en route but jumping off when they're almost there... Trams and trolleys are not particularly fast, they exist to do gravel to panel speed but never refueling. Tram has limited capability to run on rail network and its own specific lines, but limits co-traffic to panel speed. Trolley is "free" asphalt/streetlights but requires increasingly detailed combination of signs to keep road and foot traffic off if needed. So if you're actually having people time out, the only solution is... Well, it depends on what you have but if it's already gravel it might just be closer dwellings unless you want to commit to passenger heavy rail, even most buses don't really get limited by it (on sunny days.) I recall road node merging was properly added sometime in the past year or so, but I can't remember how it works right now. At worst case, if you place a waypoint or road sign exactly on node and delete it, the cleanup from removing the new node should remove the old node completely.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 05:24
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:Is it ever profitable to import waste, recycle it, and then sell it back? If so, which is better for this - plastic waste or metal scrap? I've never quite mathed it out, but in my latest run I tried it for a while but found that the margins were actually pretty bad given the conversion ratio. I also thought about doing this, and I think the margins are slightly better for plastic waste, but I am also pretty sure that for either of them, you're barely breaking even - on paper you get some profit out of it, but bear in mind you also have to consider the fuel cost to transport the waste and the power usage to operate the recycling facility. It is still slightly cheaper than importing the equivalent amount of finished plastic or steel, but the difference is miniscule - for domestic use you are better off just importing the finished product. There's an alternative, though - you get paid for importing burnable waste, which you can then feed into a waste-to-energy incinerator and sell the power you generate by burning the trash you got paid to take. You also get paid to import ash, which decays rather quickly, so you could theoretically import it just to let it decay. You get paid to import sewage, too, so I guess you could make money by importing and treating sewage (or importing it and dumping it directly into the ocean, for higher profit margins). Finally, you get paid a lot of money to import hazardous waste, enough that you still turn a drat solid profit even if you are running it through waste treatment and importing the chemicals for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 07:37
|
|
|
Is it possible to import enough garbage that you can feed your industry on the recycled materials rather than digging them out of the ground? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 08:27
|
|
|
Mister Bates posted:I also thought about doing this, and I think the margins are slightly better for plastic waste, but I am also pretty sure that for either of them, you're barely breaking even - on paper you get some profit out of it, but bear in mind you also have to consider the fuel cost to transport the waste and the power usage to operate the recycling facility. Thanks! This is the answer I was looking for. So I could just set up a remote waste treatment/storage somewhere safely far away from my residential areas and probably just turn a decent profit doing that. I also thought about setting up a nuclear waste storage industry. The idea crossed my mind the moment I saw the prices for nuclear waste: "You mean I can just make money for importing this stuff and dumping it somewhere??" Poil posted:Is it possible to import enough garbage that you can feed your industry on the recycled materials rather than digging them out of the ground? This is the dream. Import the waste to turn it into materials, recycle our sewage into fertilizer to grow food. Eat the food we need, export the rest or turn it into booze and export it to the foreigners. The circle of life. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Feb 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 18:24
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I also thought about setting up a nuclear waste storage industry. The idea crossed my mind the moment I saw the prices for nuclear waste: "You mean I can just make money for importing this stuff and dumping it somewhere??" There's a mod for nuclear waste reprocessing, and I've always been tempted to set that up and try it as a money making industry. I'm not sure it's sustainable in terms of chemical production, though I guess you could just buy them. You'd still probably make a profit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 19:37
|
|
|
You can import mixed waste and sift through it - it seems to depend on where you import it from, but I have had waste with 10% aluminum waste content, which can make quite a bit of money if you fully recycle it. And that waste is less than 100 rubels per truck load. Custom house throughput is the limiting factor, as qith so many strategies that rely on import.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2024 23:50
|
|
|
Why would you truck waste in? Why would you truck waste at all, for that matter, except for municipal collections. Import that poo poo by the bulk carrier load and you probably can make some decent profit, since the recyling industry isn't especially labour intensive. I'd probably wait until you have a chemical plant though, so you can avoid having to import massive amounts and spike the price.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:15
|
|
|
At last, the third Five-Year Plan is complete, and after investing 3.5 million labor-hours, 10 million tonnes of steel, 58.4 million tonnes of concrete, and mortgaging off the future of our republic to the IMF, our grand shipping terminal and industrial dockyard complex, complete with its own independent RMBK nuclear reactor and steel plant, is finally finished and fully operational! Comrade General Secretary, what riches shall our grand industrial navy of cargo ships convey? Trash, comrades. Glorious trash. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:09
|
|
|
I wonder at what % of wear you can make a profit on scrapping? Ships would probably be best, to minimize micro.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:11
|
|
|
Pharnakes posted:Why would you truck waste in? Why would you truck waste at all, for that matter, except for municipal collections. Import that poo poo by the bulk carrier load and you probably can make some decent profit, since the recyling industry isn't especially labour intensive. I'd probably wait until you have a chemical plant though, so you can avoid having to import massive amounts and spike the price. By the time you can import by the bulk-carrier load having a chemical plant is not what you will be working towards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 15:41
|
|
|
ArchangeI posted:By the time you can import by the bulk-carrier load having a chemical plant is not what you will be working towards. Is it actually possible to use ships to import waste? I can do it with trains but I don't see a (vanilla) cargo ship that can carry mixed waste.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2024 18:22
|
|
|
Glorgnole posted:Is it actually possible to use ships to import waste? I can do it with trains but I don't see a (vanilla) cargo ship that can carry mixed waste. No, but there are modded ships.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2024 18:58
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure there's also a mod for those bottomless ships people used to use for dumping waste, if you want the rubish collection concerns but not to actually deal with it much beyond that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2024 23:49
|
|
|
What I've seen on the workshop was basically a free dump you could build on the water. Ash will still dissipate but normal waste will just sit there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 03:32
|
|
|
I think waste in general may slowly decay if specifically in dumps? Ash is absolutely the fastest, but I accidentally mixed construction waste into my ash piles and eventually it too disappeared. That said, this didn’t seem true when one dump was nothing but construction waste, so maybe it’s only mixed? Or maybe the “mixed” ash sort of grabbed tiny bits of the construction waste when it decayed. Felt like more of a bug than intentional but sometimes I still don’t know with this game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 04:47
|
|
|
I've been playing since the newest update, since it seems like the changes are going to mainly be cosmetic. I've started the New Soviet Republic scenario in the campaign (whatever it's called, the second one that isn't just the tutorial). With the exceptions of choosing "normal" for money, fires, and disasters, everything is set to realistic / hard / complex. I've also set the starting population to exist, so that it doesn't feel like I'm just waltzing into a town that already exists. I haven't played for a bit, mainly because I was waiting for the game to finish baking before I burned myself out on it. It's weird how strangely the people will act when you actually show up and start trying to place facilities for them. The moment you appear , you enter into a race against time for you to set up
I've tried to not save scum unless it feels like something happened because of a mistake on the game's fault. For example, getting a large rail construction crane wedged in place between the rail yard and some new track it was laying, because it didn't want to actually go back into the rail yard, or turn down a different path. And the "return to construction yard" button wasn't available. I ended up having to scrap it, although I was tempted to reload. But, I came very close, when the construction outpost that I set up a few kilometers away caught fire. In particular, the storage between the rail unloader, and the asphalt / concrete / truck loader connected to it. I realized shortly after that the fire trucks didn't reach the fire because the roads weren't plowed, and the roads weren't plowed because I had forgotten to remove a "stop snow plowing here" sign a while back when there was nothing beyond. So, not only did the expensive centerpieces burn down (at least it wasn't the rail unloader but jeez), but it left 1000 tons of waste behind. Which has to be moved. By truck. For a couple kilometers. And I don't have recycling unlocked yet, so I can't separate the majority into construction waste, and then back into gravel. I could leave it but then I'm more or less available the asphalt and concrete, along with the rail yard. Anyway, that was a nice surprise to be introduced to the most frustrating aspects of the waste system. I'm still actually pretty ok with the research system, waste, plumbing, etc, which I know turn some people off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 07:55
|
|
|
I feel like, after having two decently long saves with it, the problem with waste is that they tease out complex and involved recycling chains that don’t make sense to build and staff for anything but the largest republics with absolute hell fleets of garbage trucks and the only way you should engage with it for 75% of the game is sorting only what you can’t burn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 08:08
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:I've been playing since the newest update, since it seems like the changes are going to mainly be cosmetic. I've started the New Soviet Republic scenario in the campaign (whatever it's called, the second one that isn't just the tutorial). With the exceptions of choosing "normal" for money, fires, and disasters, everything is set to realistic / hard / complex. I've also set the starting population to exist, so that it doesn't feel like I'm just waltzing into a town that already exists. I feel like "you are exploding into these guys' world at the same time as smuggled fansubs of Pizza Hut ads" is, while not fair, realistic. But also, delta better luck with fires, the scenario seemed pretty straightforward? Once you hit stable state your naturals are obscene amounts of crops, a full helicopter infrastructure, and a biiiig pop bomb. e: they wake up when they can walk to work, including construction. which is an important nuance the game doesn't necessarily convey. the tldr involves a lot of "cram all that poo poo into a self-contained streetlighted asphalt loop right by their town with the only access parallel and 1km+ out, then connect it to downtown with 10m of gravel or dirt" Mandoric fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Feb 6, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 09:07
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:I think waste in general may slowly decay if specifically in dumps? Ash is absolutely the fastest, but I accidentally mixed construction waste into my ash piles and eventually it too disappeared. That said, this didn’t seem true when one dump was nothing but construction waste, so maybe it’s only mixed? Or maybe the “mixed” ash sort of grabbed tiny bits of the construction waste when it decayed. Felt like more of a bug than intentional but sometimes I still don’t know with this game. Mixed waste absolutely, definitely decays in dumps, I have watched it happen with my eyes, but it's too slow to outpace the garbage production of even a modest-sized city, so you will either need to periodically rotate through multiple landfills or have some other disposal solution. Also do not forget that you can pre-sort trash at the bins by setting aside dedicated bin types for different kinds of waste. I am running what I consider a happy medium for garbage disposal and sorting - namely, I do not have the full separation and and recycling infrastructure set up, but I do have dedicated storage set aside for plastic waste, metal scrap, and a couple of other types (the ones you get paid a decent amount for, basically), and I just periodically export from those storages when they get full. I do not reliably get 100% of them, because I am not actually separating them out and not all of them will end up in the correct bins, but I do separate out enough of them to significantly increase the amount of space available in my main dump, and it takes zero additional infrastructure or labor. It's extremely unrealistic because everybody actually does only put plastic in the plastic bin and metal in the metal bin and doesn't just fill them with random garbage like they do in real life, but I am perfectly okay with that
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 20:17 |
|
|
Mandoric posted:e: they wake up when they can walk to work, including construction. which is an important nuance the game doesn't necessarily convey. the tldr involves a lot of "cram all that poo poo into a self-contained streetlighted asphalt loop right by their town with the only access parallel and 1km+ out, then connect it to downtown with 10m of gravel or dirt" This... is very useful to know. I didn't actually think too hard about how this stuff worked, thanks for the suggestion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2024 21:13
|
|