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CHAPTER I. SPECIAL GAMING MATERIALS Aside from the common gaming materials used, you must also add more. Extra gaming materials, no matter how cheap the cost, can add significantly to the image of production value. Some can also be used to produce an added dimension to the gaming experience. A. Game Master's Mask As the game master, you must create an air of separation between yourself and the players. You are not one of them. You are everyone else in the game world. The game master's screen is a common tool that accomplishes this somewhat. You can take it further. For my sessions, I planned to wear a mask to hide my face. I chose a mask similar to the one used by the phantom of the opera, except that it covered both sides. White and expressionless to erase my appearance of humanity and partially detach the players from the notion that I am anything but the concept of the storyteller. It also creates an air of mystique, drawing the players' attention further into the story you tell. It is important that you accompany this mask with a more subtle mask. The "true game master's mask". You must act more confident and add that to your voice when you narrate. Act like you know something that the players don't, especially because you do. You can go so far as to change the accent with which you speak, as if putting on the physical mask also changed your persona into that of "the game master". B. The Stars of Fortune In Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition, players can spend "action points" to take an extra action during their turn or activate some other effect depending on their feats, class features, powers, or magic items. These are rare, special moments of glory that the players' characters experience as a stroke of luck, passion, or genius. I decided to add to the distinction of actions points as being "special" by adding a visual, tactile sensation. I would use bite-size plastic silver stars to represent the action points. It would remind players of the existence of their action points and give them a feel of extravagance as pretty, shiny objects often do. It would also have been fun to toss them into a bowl when they "spent" the points. Two points! (the audience cheers) C. Capsule Rollers When rolling dice, they can knock over other things on the table such as miniatures or fall off the table. This creates a disruption that interrupts the flow of a game. Remembering an old board game that had an interesting way of rolling dice by keeping them inside a plastic chamber, I came up with a simple and entertaining solution to this potential problem. I went to the little toy vending machines at my local supermarket. I purchased a number of toys, some of which I could use as miniatures for combat encounters. The toys come in small plastic capsules made up of two halves that are re-attachable after opening. One half is opaque and the other is relatively clear. One could place a die inside and shake the capsule to roll the die. The opaque half may have a flat end (which my capsules do) so the die lands on that end with the result showing from the clear end. No risk of knocking over minis and no falling off the table. It also prevents some of the methods players use to cheat with their dice rolls. D. Sticker Bottoms In a large combat, it can be a hassle to keep track of which miniature is which if you are using a lot of the same miniatures to represent your monsters. That is why I decided to place blank stickers on the bottom ends of my miniatures and label them with a pen or pencil so that when their hit points or conditions are updated, one can simply look at the sticker to see which monster it is. No chance of forgetting or mixing them up. Becoming lost in thought takes away from the appearance of the game master's competence while this sort of preparation adds to the appearance of the game master's experience and foresight. E. Printed Aids If you have a printer, take advantage of it. Print out anything that can save time and help the game run smoothly as well as improve the storytelling of the session. Make sure that none of the text you print out requires a magnifying glass to read. Reference Sheets - There are a number of "cheat sheets" that you can find online that are compiled or summarized versions of game rules. These sheets can greatly ease and quicken the decision making of yourself and the players, especially character skill summaries. Combat Sheet - A printed, labeled grid that keeps tracking of initiative, hit points, and conditions clean and efficient. Individual Maps - It helps if every player has a copy of the map being used for the party's travel instead of having to pass it around. Some decisions require mulling over and staring at different locations on the map. This can waste time if multiple players want to mull over the same map and have to wait their turns. A list of summary descriptions of notable locations may be included with each map. Cinematic Pictures - Sometimes it helps to have pictures instead of words. Pictures can help immerse the players into the story much quicker and more efficiently than words can. They can also supplement the narrative with visual reference. In front of the GM screen I would have a stand where I could place pictures such as that of monsters or wondrous locations being visited by the party. While the players stare at the picture(s) I could voice the NPC speaking or describe the notable history of an ancient castle. It would also have been of great help when speaking as a character of the opposite gender. There's only so much a mask can do to alter one's perceptions. Pre-Generated Character Sheets - Character death may be inevitable, and rolling up a new character mid-session takes away from a player's participation and can slow down a game session. If the players do not have back up characters, then have back up pre-gens ready to take their place in-game in the event of death or some other inability to play with the characters. Make sure that the players are aware of the pre-gens before the game and that they have a choice of which ones to serve as a back up. If possible, let the players give you an idea of what they might like as pre-gens before making them. Otherwise make sure to have an eclectic selection on hand.
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Apr 1, 2019 09:42
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This will undoubtedly make some people angry. That is not my intent, but rather it is to express my observations and opinion about something I felt was implied in another thread. If it makes you angry then I am sorry, but my opinion still remains the same. Some will undoubtedly agree with me, some will disagree. C’est la vie. I forked this thread from How Do you Distribute Treasure? It occurred to me from reading that thread that within the game (considering this particular issue) you basically have two ways of looking at the World and milieu in which the characters operate. 1. The World Exists for the sake of the Characters – therefore the players present “Wish Lists” to the DM/GM, and he makes sure that the treasure they receive, assuming magical items are included in such troves, is fit for their desires and “wishes.” I imagine by extension that such a wish list can or maybe will eventually incorporate other aspects of milieu-management, such as arranging events, dungeons, political situations, and a whole host of “goodies” for the benefit of the characters. The point of existing in such a world, I suspect? – to level up of course. To become more, or maybe far more, of what you already are. The point of the game is to a large extent the mechanics of the game. By getting what you want you become what you wish and what you wish is to be stronger, bigger, badder, and more powerful as a game-character. That is to say the point of the game is the nature of the game, the world exists to service the game-character as an expression of “gamism.” In short the various accoutrements and devices and badges of heroism are distributed and “given out” as a tangible reward based upon the wishes and desires of the player. If you want the implements of heroism, those things that will assist you in being heroic, then it is the duty of the world, through the agency of the DM, to give you those things as a reward for the idea that you want to be an imaginary hero. Which leads me to the second basic way of viewing the World in an imaginary gaming universe. 2. The Characters Exist for the sake of the World – therefore the players get whatever they happen to discover and it is up to them to make the best possible use of whatever resources they encounter and can gain in order to earn their heroism. They cannot petition the World, through the agency of the DM to get whatever they “wish for” in order to facilitate their further actions. On the contrary they must gain what they gain, either intentionally, or by accident, being in effect limited to what is, not to what is wished for. This way of looking at the world is far less like a video game full of self-imposed (auto-programmed) Easter Eggs and far more like the real world. Yes, you can create things at your own expense, but there is no Santa-Clause DM/GM to whom one can avail oneself for that special, bright, shiny toy one so desperately longs for in his secret heart of hearts. (And this toy may be an item, object, device, situation, ability, or power – anything that encompasses a possession of some kind.) Because of this the world does not exist for the characters but rather the characters exist for the world, they must make use of what is offered, and they come by that due to the logical demands of what is possible from the environment around them rather than from the environment they wish to exist. This creates an entirely different dynamic of both “heroism” and “power.” Heroism is not something made evident through the “goodies” you possess or even through the power they convey upon you, but rather what you possess is “empowered” by the cleverness by which you employ it. You cannot demand the world give you things or service your needs, so therefore you must service the world in order to make best use of what you can get. The world and the DM will not bow to your demands (though the world and the DM may consider your efforts to achieve some given end or object as noble, worthy, or even of deserving assistance of some kind) and wishes so therefore you must “earn what is possible” given the particular circumstances in which you and your comrades find yourselves. I find this a fascinating contrast in both gaming theory and in the implications of such theories. As a personal matter I should say I find the first method and worldview immensely fascinating and even seductively alluring. I also find it, personally speaking, as a way of approaching the game, any game, or of viewing the world, any world, ugly, repulsive, petty, doomed to eventual self-absorption, and very likely to generate little else in the end than utter apathy. I can find nothing heroic in it as an ideal at all, other than the rather atrophic and shortsighted view that heroism as a game ideal is best created through raw accumulation of power. That is to say the more power you have the more potentially heroic you must naturally become because after all it is power (in the sense of raw force) which is the true measure of heroism. (And there is something at the margins to warrant a serious examination of this assumption, without power it is simply not possible to be heroic, unless of course powerlessness is a form of power, and I suspect very much that given the right conditions that statement is also very, very true. Sometimes powerlessness is the greatest form of power.) Nevertheless the idea of the game-world existing to service the character is as repugnant to me as the idea that the real world exists to service Paris Hilton. As a matter of fact I would call this way of looking at the game as the "Modern Entertainer" View of Heroism. I am a Hero when things go the way I wish and when I get the things I want in order to assure that heroism is worth my while. It is a sort of acting out of heroism, not as an actual thing, but as a sort of stage play in which the actor becomes a shadow or mask (a persona) of the man he is supposed to be truly representing. If on the other hand heroism makes real demands on me, such as that I serve the needs of the World, rather than the other way around, well, that’s either too tough, too demanding, not profitable, or gets in the way of my fun. Or put more simply, “Fun is the point of Heroism, and so Heroism must serve my needs and wishes to be ‘gainful.’” I personally find that an extremely shallow view of the idea of fun, heroism, gain, or profit. To be perfectly honest all I have ever seen of real heroism makes me suspect it is in fact hard, dangerous, demanding, thrilling (at times - being deadly boring at others), patience-testing, taxing, excruciating, and exhausting work. Yes, it can be fun, it can also be incredibly disgusting, disheartening, heart-breaking, lonely, back-breaking, and yet the gains and profits of it are almost immeasurable in comparison to the dearth of “goodies” you ever really receive from your “wish list,” which is usually little more than, “God I hope I survive this,” or “God, I hope they survive this.” (Which to be perfectly honest is why I fully understand the allure of the first World View - who hasn’t been in a really tight or lethal spot and thought to themselves, “if only I had what I really needed I could have saved them,” or “if only I had the power to have prevented this I could have saved them.” That is a common condition when faced with servicing the world while facing the reality of doing so with a lack of sufficient resources and/or power.) Nevertheless you do what you can with what you have and I’ve often wondered that if I possessed every degree of power I demanded or wished in order to solve any problem I faced, if I had every resource I desired to right any wrong or injustice, would then my actions under such conditions be heroic at all? Or those of a man who by being able to bend the world to my will through a wealth of whatever I wanted or wished, more akin to King Midas. Everything I desire turns to gold, but there is no more blood to warm my future, for everything has become through contact with me the more inanimate the more I accumulate. I know why the world exists and it is certainly not for my sake. It is hard for me to imagine a world that exists for the sake of the hero. It is also extremely hard for me to imagine a Hero who asks that the world exists for him. There are men who ask that the world exist for them, who make ceaseless demands upon it, and who seek to have their various wishes fulfilled for their own benefit, but you don’t call such men heroes. They have another name. Another name entirely.
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Apr 1, 2019 09:42
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hello from the admin forum e: or from the gas chamber on April 2 I guess Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 1, 2019 09:45
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grognards, eh. I got one for you https://www.twitter.com/Ettin64 
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Apr 1, 2019 09:59
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OH NO NOT AGAIN
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Apr 1, 2019 10:02
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no
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Apr 1, 2019 10:19
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Apr 1, 2019 10:52
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Click "see more posts by this user" to fully expand the grog thread.
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Apr 1, 2019 10:54
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Apr 1, 2019 11:25
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On the first day, Cirno looked upon the thread, and it was good.
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Apr 1, 2019 11:27
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Someone please post the Mustardgrog, that one's my favorite.
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Apr 1, 2019 11:37
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Oh you clever giant....
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Apr 1, 2019 12:44
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When I have someone run in my world for the first time, in the usual way I would describe what they see: it might, for instance, go like this: “You’re standing in Paris, at the head of the Rue de Pontoise, where you can gaze along the Quai de Montebello, towards Notre Dame; it has been raining heavily and the streets are flooded an inch deep in water; but movement has taken hold of the city again and artists are setting their canvases up along the Seine. A few teamsters nearby are struggling with a mule. You have been in the city for only a few hours, and here is where you’ve wound up. What do you wish to do?” Now, from someone unfamiliar with my world, and quite familiar with D&D, I will get some very definite replies. If they are a thief, they will ask, “Do I see anyone with a fat pouch hanging from their belt?” What is it with this nonsensical Lieberesque perception that rich people carry all their money where it can be clearly seen by thieves? That it wouldn’t occur to them, perhaps, to keep their money a little closer to their persons? Is it Dickens, perhaps, that makes player thieves think that every rich passerby is so much of a fool as to be unaware that there are thieves? And that it is clearly the easiest thing to do to steal money pouches as they pass by, like peaches in an orchard? No, I will answer. No pouches. “All you see is poor people. You will have to go elsewhere to see them; and you would be hassled by guardsmen to be dressed as you are (the thief is a country lout, far too provincial, and dirty from the road).” But, the more common reply to the description of origin, regardless of where I start a character off, will be, “I go to a tavern.” “All right, it takes you a bit to find one, but you ask directions. And here you are at the Sour Bottle.” So the player will buy a drink, and ask, “where can someone find a little adventure around here?” And I will have the wine steward (this is France, after all) raise an eyebrow and walk away. It’s a dumb question, after all. Usually, what comes next is the player will wait for something to happen. That is, he or she will wait until I give them something to do. Which I won’t. It’s not my responsibility to make sure they have an adventure. Yes, I know, people think it is. But I talked about that already, remember? I make the world. Running in it is the character’s problem. I’m not going to have a fight erupt just so the player can jump in; or have someone start randomly giving information about the local thieves’ guild (who would?); or have someone come in and ask if there are any tough adventurers who would like to make a few sous. Seriously, gently caress that. Look, GOD doesn’t run my life, does he? I run my life…and I like it that way. When the arguments start about how to play D&D, the advice is always directed at the DM. Who needs to invent better adventures, create better magic items, devise more complicated intrigue. Does anyone ever suggest that maybe what we need are better players? No, they don’t. And that is because the players have no power. Well, in my world, they do. Oh, I don’t mean they can walk up to just anybody and start a fight. That will probably end up with them facing odds of five to one (guardsmen have a tendency to multiply with rabbit-like efficiency). Any idiot can start a fight at random and idiots like that will end up in a dungeon and summarily executed. I won’t hesitate to do that as a DM. But if the character—let’s call him Jack—is clever enough to ask around to find out what the city of Paris taxes heavily, he might discover that the local shop-owners (and the citizens) pay quite dearly for mustard. And he might discover that there’s much mustard that comes in along the east roads from the direction of Dijon. With a little diligence, he might have a lookout for one of these shipments…and after a few crates have been unloaded at a local shop, Jack might approach the poor lackey responsible for the loading and ask how often the deliveries are made—and who makes them. Whereupon Jack could learn the name of the shipper…probably a very minor merchant who makes little coin for his trouble, with no one but his son for help. Perhaps Jack traces them to their origin (a warehouse outside the city walls, and outside the city’s tax gatherers), has his friends lie in wait along a cramped place in the road in ambush and… There you go. Jack is now in possession of twenty or thirty kegs of mustard. Now, he could just take them. Or he could surprise the merchant by buying the mustard…on account, of course. If the merchant is willing to keep silent, until Jack has his money for him in a few days. Oh, and of course the merchant’s son can stay with Jack until then. So having sent the merchant home to keep quiet, Jack can now re-enter Paris, where he can meet with every one on the mustard merchant’s route. “Of course there will still be deliveries…at a slightly lower cost even…the first will be tomorrow, a day late, and on time thereafter.” Why wouldn’t all the shopkeepers agree to go on purchasing at Jack’s lower prices? With that settled, there’s just two things left to do. Jack’s pals have to steal themselves a rowboat; Jack, in turn, needs to hire, beg, borrow or steal a horse and cart (the one outside the city gates won’t do). Then its just a matter of slipping down the Seine at night in the boat, with the mustard on board…using the illusionist’s fog spell for cover, or whatever other means—perhaps cutting their way through the underwater cable pulled across the river; and meeting Jack at the appointed time and place. Oh, Jack might have to backstab a guardsman if he comes along at the right moment—but there are always risks. If everything goes off well, the next day Jack carries his mustard around the shops for a clear profit…well over what he’d get if he tried to carry them through the city gates. So what, you say? Mustard? What kind of adventure is that? One that first levels could manage, I think. And which would have all the necessary angst in overcoming the obstacles. Moreover, once Jack was able to bribe the necessary guardsmen along the river (with the profit from his first caper), return the merchant’s son and keep him intimidated (and paid off), there are places the set up could go. Creating a union of merchants outside the walls who could provide the mustard; faster and quicker ways to get the mustard into the city; more shopkeepers ready to climb on board to get a chance at Jack’s prices; competitors ruined and bargain basement acquisitions made; contests with other smugglers trying the same game; further undermining of city officials; expanding into other operations; improving one’s reputation through a combination of income, extortion and reward. As a DM, the only part I take in all of this is to make a judgment call on whether the scheme should work or not. NOT—as some DMs would—to make it impossible. Sure, it should be difficult…but it’s in my interest to see Jack’s plan succeed. The adventure drives itself, and I just have to keep a hand on the rudder. Until Jack fucks up something along the way, and things can break apart logically and force him to take desperate action or flee. You see, I really don’t CARE what the party does. As long as it does what IT wants…whatever that is. It’s a big wide wonderful world out there, with plenty of opportunities. Which players should be able to take for themselves. Running a world like this, as a DM, requires tremendous flexibility and a quick mind. Most of all, it requires a certain philosophy—that being the strong understanding that the DM does not “compete” against the players. If the players behave foolishly, the world—being the nasty place that it is—should respond with deadly force. But if the player’s circumvent the DM’s thinking…the DM should pause, and then admit, “I didn’t think of that—good on you!”—and finally, letting the cherished NPC die before moving on. The sacred status of the adventure as planned is the bane of the game. I’ll take a stab at that next.
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Apr 1, 2019 13:04
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This had better not be one of those April Fools, don't pull my heartstrings like this Mr Ettin.
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Apr 1, 2019 14:11
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I'll take the bait and say that I don't think any of the three grog posts so far are actually bad. The points (to bring your best and make it fun, make the world responsive to your players, and immerse them in the setting) are all good advice for GMs, although the exact details (using a mask and setting up a mustard cartel) are a bit off. Honestly though, if I look at good GMing advice from Gnome Stew or something, this is all common advice. I know a lot of people here prefer hyper-focused, players-as-leading-characters, epic scripted plotlines kind of stuff, but it's not the only way to play the game, as treasure distribution and mustard guys show.
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Apr 1, 2019 14:29
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Arivia posted:I'll take the bait and say that I don't think any of the three grog posts so far are actually bad. I think I spotted the true April Fool's joke. You nearly had me there.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:01
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Mask guy in particular is honestly just good at his job. The mask is goofy but everything else is immensely helpful physical aids, and let they who haven't wanted to wear a sick mask throw the first stone
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Apr 1, 2019 15:14
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Gas thread, ban OP
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Apr 1, 2019 15:22
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For a description of the ideal DM please refer to the holy scriptures: KotDT.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:46
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Apr 1, 2019 16:14
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Apr 1, 2019 19:17
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april fools day is just the worst
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Apr 1, 2019 19:23
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the real joke is that this is the first "statement" from mearls since the whole you-know-who non-apology
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Apr 1, 2019 19:56
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Cat Face Joe posted:the real joke is that this is the first "statement" from mearls since the whole you-know-who non-apology Also I missed you, grognards.txt. It's good to be back.
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Apr 2, 2019 02:00
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At last, the forums are complete again
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Apr 2, 2019 02:48
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This next one's a blast from the past!quote:Here is an organization I am thinking of using in my games. I'd appreciate some feedback on it. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 03:02
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The mustard man doesn't necessarily have bad ideas, but dear god is the air around his post thick with "you're playing it wrong." If I want a game of intrigue and exploration in a true sandbox, I'd sell it to the players that way first. I wouldn't invite them to some normal-rear end DnD and then chortle as they ask where the orcs are.
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Apr 2, 2019 03:38
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The Bee posted:The mustard man doesn't necessarily have bad ideas, but dear god is the air around his post thick with "you're playing it wrong." If I want a game of intrigue and exploration in a true sandbox, I'd sell it to the players that way first. I wouldn't invite them to some normal-rear end DnD and then chortle as they ask where the orcs are. 100% completely agreed.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:45
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Reene posted:grognards, eh. I got one for you There is no way at all, ever, that Ettin can be a grognard. I remember many years ago talking about a gnome character and Ettin thinking I was talking about David the gnome characters. acatinapaperbag fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 12:17
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Mustard Guy!  He's my favourite grog, because of his sheer passive-aggressiveness. You just know he's put in a huge amount of work to create a detailed, historically accurate and unique sandbox world... that nobody will ever play (at least for more than one session) because he puts verisimilitude way above anyone but him actually having any fun. Shine on, Mustard Guy.
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Apr 2, 2019 12:36
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Since this is still up can I put in another request? In want to reread the post from the guy who created extensive D&D rules for medieval cheeses.
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Apr 2, 2019 16:16
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/404579646
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Apr 2, 2019 17:01
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Nuns with Guns posted:Since this is still up can I put in another request? In want to reread the post from the guy who created extensive D&D rules for medieval cheeses. I think you're just describing Ars Magica.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:49
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It's probably april 2 on your stupid rear end island, gas this thread Ettin.
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Apr 2, 2019 22:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I think you're just describing Ars Magica. There was definitely a cheese one that put Ars Magica to shame. And one about ancient European currencies. They were probably posted in the grog thread that was tossed into the mod forum after people ruined it. It's a shame because ones that educate you on incredibly niche history topics are the best.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:13
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quote:Okay, you've heard me rant about it before and you're going to hear me rant about it again. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 20:33
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quote:D&D Sucks!! Quick TEST to know if you're ROLEPLAYING vs Miniature Gaming Libertad! fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 4, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 20:37
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He's right. If you find yourself wanting grid combat at the tabletop, play gloomhaven for a bit, then go back to your campaign!!
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Apr 3, 2019 20:38
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 Product Description posted:This set contains the very dice that Shanna Dahaka used to invoke Azi Dahaka and enchant her magical afro.
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Apr 3, 2019 20:46
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| # ? May 5, 2024 13:15 |
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quote:Greetings, fellow MGTOW. One of my purple pill friends has decided to include a girl in our D&D game. I’ve seen her before and she’s your average SJW lazy leech. I’ve asked him several times to change his mind, but he just keeps to it. Ideas? What I have is I conspire with one of my other red pill friends to kill off her character and get her to have as little fun as possible, so she stops invading our space. quote:I’d suggest incorporating things into the story that go against SJW sensibilities but that the rest of you have no issue with. if she’s really your average attention seeking SJW she’ll throw a hissy fit and effectively remove her mask. granted that runs the risk of causing drama for your group but that’s how I’d do it if i were in your position. I’ve always been the type who hates liars and seeks to out them no matter the cost. lol. quote:I’d like to, but I’m not going to be the dungeon master. I’m thinking of playing a race where women are kept to a sheerly traditional role and have him constantly rail on her character. I’ll provide updates on the situation. quote:If you aren’t the dungeon master and can’t make the story go against things SJW’s believe in then being a race where women are in traditional roles seems like a good idea. You could also use her fake geekness to your advantage by making her look bad. I am sure she loves all those Marvel movies right? If you read comics then talk about stuff the Avengers have done over the years. Ask her about her thoughts of how the Avengers were disassembled and later formed the New Avengers. Ask her which side she was on during Civil War,did she agree with the initiative? During the Initiative did she prefer New Avengers or Mighty Avengers? Which Skrull reveal was the most shocking to her during the Secret Invasion. Did she liked the roster for the Dark Avengers? quote:Nah they won't bother with us because even though we are all pretending geekdom is cool now, the people who pretend that still won't touch table top RPG's with the standard 2 silver piece 10 foot pole. Apparently even though they are cool with geeky things now, that's a geeky thing that's too geeky.... Either that or they have to admit to only liking a thing because its now cool to like that thing & they are just sheep. quote:True. And if we confront them with D&D (old or new), Pathfinder or 40K or the old HERO system we'll actually confront them with MATH. And for most SJWs math is even more terrifying than the male gaze... quote:Yeah merit is another big reason why tabletop gaming in both RPG & Wargames does not appeal to the geek-sheep (my term for those people who call themselves geeks because its trendy): Tabletop games are active where as watching game of thrones is passive & that's really the difference between actual geeks and the geek-sheep. One actively pursues it because they are interested in it & the other waits for it to come to them (though some people can become interested enough to become active if they wait & see something come to them).
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Apr 3, 2019 20:55
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