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RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

Just Another Lurker posted:

Think this might be a good guide on damage for anyone interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc5pm8TFrKo&t=184s

the secret is he-man

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99pct of germs
Apr 13, 2013

I wish they would buff Glyphs of Hope to 50%, that would go along way for me to making the RNG less punishing with high FP items suddenly getting chunked for 15 on your first go.

Also I've really been enjoying what I'm calling the temper tantrum Sentinel build.

I'm just throwing hammers and shields all over the place, causing bleed, ignite, and even poison. Then just shield charging all over the place and plowing through mobs. It's wonderful! Now I just need to find something to replace my Firestarters Torch that I've been using since level 5 lol.

ratchild13
Apr 28, 2006

Fun Shoe

99pct of germs posted:

I wish they would buff Glyphs of Hope to 50%, that would go along way for me to making the RNG less punishing with high FP items suddenly getting chunked for 15 on your first go.

Also I've really been enjoying what I'm calling the temper tantrum Sentinel build.

I'm just throwing hammers and shields all over the place, causing bleed, ignite, and even poison. Then just shield charging all over the place and plowing through mobs. It's wonderful! Now I just need to find something to replace my Firestarters Torch that I've been using since level 5 lol.

Hah dang, that's same exact build i'm doing on a forge knight right now, still using that firestarters at 30, it was 1 LP and I got lucky with a 150% fire dmg slammed into it. It's only just now petering out on dmg at level 30, as I get multistrike online for autocasting everything. Shield throw is also quite strong as fire, blasts through whole groups of minions.

Reoxygenation
Dec 8, 2010

if wishes were fishes fuck you this is my pie
I wish shield throw was good into the late game, I don't think I've seen a single, viable, shield-throw focused build

I am open to being wrong

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



wait, so the D button doesn't work like 50% of the time in soulfire bastion, but at least they fixed the bug that let soul embers persist between attempts!

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

A Moose posted:

wait, so the D button doesn't work like 50% of the time in soulfire bastion, but at least they fixed the bug that let soul embers persist between attempts!

I've had the D button lag on Chronomancer Julra a couple times and that is some real frustrating stuff

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



I was testing if I could tank one of those giants nukes without the correct shield up (no, got me through reaper form and death seal) and then I ran in, and died on the first pack because the shield starts on necrotic and I just couldn't change it to fire

JonathonSpectre
Jul 23, 2003

I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck

Soiled Meat
So I watched that damage video and I am a stupid man so I don't understand it. Help me.

For my void knight, there's melee damage, void damage, and void melee damage. Melee damage pretty obviously applies to any melee, and melee void damage too. But does void damage pump a melee void attack like void cleave or erasing strike or is that just melee & melee void, and void damage just modifies void spells?

Also, does fire damage increase the damage of ignite, or just damage over time/elemental damage over time? I'm at the point in the game where I'm starting to look at making endgame gear and I don't want to end up putting a bunch of fire damage on something if what I actually need is fire melee.

skeletronics
Jul 19, 2005
Man
As far as I understand, if a skill has the void tag, it'll get the bonus from void damage, whether the skill melee or not, so all three of those bonuses should apply to sklls with both the melee and void tags. It would not benefit from a bonus to spell void damage, though.

If a bonus has multiple tags, the skill needs to have all of those tags to benefit from it.


IDK, I could be wrong. I didn't get through the video because the beginning was all stuff I thought was pretty obvious and didn't want to watch 15 more minutes of it.

e: I suppose the takeaway is that while all three of those bonuses would apply, they'd first all get added together into a single increased % multiplier, whereas finding bonuses that say "more damage" instead of "increased" remain their own multiplier. The tooltips say this.


So let's say you're looking at a choice between two bonuses: a +30% increased damage, or a 10% more damage. The 30% one looks bigger, but if your increased damage multiplier is already above 300%, the extra 30% would represent less than a 10% increase, so the 10% more damage bonus would give a bigger boost in this case.

skeletronics fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 12, 2024

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





skeletronics posted:


If a bonus has multiple tags, the skill needs to have all of those tags to benefit from it.


Edit: Nevermind, misread what this says.

JonathonSpectre
Jul 23, 2003

I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck

Soiled Meat

skeletronics posted:

As far as I understand, if a skill has the void tag, it'll get the bonus from void damage, whether the skill melee or not, so all three of those bonuses should apply to sklls with both the melee and void tags. It would not benefit from a bonus to spell void damage, though.

If a bonus has multiple tags, the skill needs to have all of those tags to benefit from it.


IDK, I could be wrong. I didn't get through the video because the beginning was all stuff I thought was pretty obvious and didn't want to watch 15 more minutes of it.

e: I suppose the takeaway is that while all three of those bonuses would apply, they'd first all get added together into a single increased % multiplier, whereas finding bonuses that say "more damage" instead of "increased" remain their own multiplier. The tooltips say this.


So let's say you're looking at a choice between two bonuses: a +30% increased damage, or a 10% more damage. The 30% one looks bigger, but if your increased damage multiplier is already above 300%, the extra 30% would represent less than a 10% increase, so the 10% more damage bonus would give a bigger boost in this case.

Thanks friend! This was really helpful and has increased my DPS.

Man I gotta bitch about the Lagon fight a little. It is just too loving long, my 76 bladedancer has died to monolith Lagon on that third phase about 10 times now due to the exact same thing: stun + getting hit with 2-3 things immediately afterward. This is not a case of git gud, I'm fine with being poo poo, it's just NOT FUN. I look forward to fighting all the other monolith bosses (especially the Black Sun, bring it on fucker) but man, I just HATE Lagon, you can spend 7 minutes being absolutely perfect and then you input lag on shift one time and bam, loving dead, start over.

Just... just lower his HP some, or something. gently caress's sake, he's annoying.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


still want to do a healing hands paladin while it is broken. not sure if i want to do melee with rive or the full caster divine bolt variant or something else. also kind of want to make this character cof just to see what its like but the idea of leveling up another faction is daunting.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

JonathonSpectre posted:

Man I gotta bitch about the Lagon fight a little. It is just too loving long, my 76 bladedancer has died to monolith Lagon on that third phase about 10 times now due to the exact same thing: stun + getting hit with 2-3 things immediately afterward.

Did you not lose stability when you died?

I actually just fought empowered monolith Lagon for the first time...I think ever? Definitely the first time since release, and I died like five times before I got the mechanics down, but I was able to retry him right away, which I don't remember being the case with any of the other bosses. You really just can't turn off for a moment, which is tricky since he seems to take so much longer than the other monolith bosses.

Though It's possible to gear for enough durability to not be killed by most of what he'll do while you're stunned (if the sweeping moonbeam or the one-shot circle come up you're probably hosed but I never saw that happen, though I was very tense about it happening since those are the only things that could kill me). Maybe I just need to be doing some degenerate amount of DPS or not playing melee?

luckily the RNG gave me precisely the grand blessing I wanted with 1% short of a perfect roll, so this character never has to fight him again

Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Apr 13, 2024

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


if you have like 20k ward you can just tank the beam :v:

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





My last few characters have been able to face tank lagon through the stun, as long as I don't stand in the death circle or run 'with' the beam I've been fine, but it can be a fairly annoyingly long fight if you don't have super high DPS.

I'm currently playing the Cast on Crit spark charge from frost claw build, and killed monolith lagon without much trouble by just flame dashing back and forth between the tentacles when he was winding up the big red-eye attacks.

What kills me on this character is the Lagon Arena map in the monoliths... it just crushes my laptop down to 5-6fps, so when I get that map because I can't be bothered to look at what map I'm about to enter, I just run to the little alcove on the right, and flame-rush in place to keep buffs up and spam frost-claw until the map ends. It's not a mob density issue either because the frame rate doesn't recover until long after all the mobs are dead, and other arena maps with just as many or more mobs never drop below 50fps.. it's crappy.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

The Locator posted:

My last few characters have been able to face tank lagon through the stun, as long as I don't stand in the death circle or run 'with' the beam I've been fine, but it can be a fairly annoyingly long fight if you don't have super high DPS.

I feel like this is basically where you want to be with Lagon. He's probably the most difficult of the empowered bosses, but you should be able to survive his claw attack and a few waves, and a bit of the beam. If you're getting instakilled outside of the big moon circle or multiple beam ticks, it's likely you should try to get more health (or ward). Or your lightning/cold resist is super low.

Of course, I've basically only been playing the three most broken builds this cycle so I can't really talk, but even pre-1.0 this was the case

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



yeah I've been playing poison lich, and I can Reap through the beam with death seal up and it'll knock me out of Reaper form, but I'll survive. and its doable without ward because that Lich build doesn't use ward. Just armor, resists and endurance/

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Cast on Crit Runemaster just hit empowered monolith's at 77, and it's pretty easy going mostly. I absolutely cannot take the Volley of Glass node on Frost Claw as I simply can't sustain the mana to clear, so I've been taking all the mana efficiency and ward nodes instead. I've tried and re-specced out of the node twice now, which at level 20 on the skill is kinda painful.

I went ahead and rolled the dice on slamming a 2LP Dragorath's Claw with a very much less than perfect exalted dagger, and managed to hit 1 of the 2 affixes I really wanted to get, so I can live with that.



E: Base spell crit up to 79% which rolls over 100 when clearing pretty quickly which feels pretty good.

skeletronics
Jul 19, 2005
Man
I decided to go all turbonerd on this one, and have been collecting data on every echo I run. Just how much xp I had when I enter and when I leave, how much time I spend in there, the echo level and corruption level, map name, and whether or not I completed it.

I wonder why I'm bothering to do this. It takes some time to take all those notes and set a timer every echo, but whatever.

I see a lot of people complaining about arena maps taking too long, but when I looked at my average times in maps with 'arena' in the name vs maps without it, it's 126 seconds vs 119. Not much off. That could just mean I'm taking too long to do echos, though, not necessarily that people be trippin'. The average xp per second in arena maps is a lot better, though. 1761 vs 987.

I have new character syndrome, so I'm focused on leveling and haven't done any high corruption stuff.

Anyway, have some charts. Sorry I didn't title them.


Here, each dot is a particular map. The xp per second and time values are the averages for each map. Red are arenas, blue are not.


Here is the number of times and echo has yielded a particular xp per second range. Same color coding.


And here each dot is a particular echo run. The color represents which character I was playing.


This one I just wanted to include to show off my sick character names, and it's related to something I said a couple posts down.

Yeah, I don't know how useful this'll be, but we all have fun our own ways.

I wish I could also track things like which shrines and enemies I encountered, starting/ending gold and crafting mat totals, etc. but that would be ridiculous.


I'm challenging myself next cycle to stick to only one character, and to get rid of every piece of loot I find that that character can't use. Maybe this data will help me pick a build.

e: just added the fourth figure.

skeletronics fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Apr 15, 2024

Tonetta
Jul 9, 2013

look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*
I can't tell which map is supposed to be which (other than arena) but I can confirm that all the arenas where you can almost fit the whole thing on one screen are the best xp, and therefore, favor you can get if you have a strong aoe build. if you want to be really cheese, you can just leave before completing it.

skeletronics
Jul 19, 2005
Man
The dots above 2000 xp/sec mean in descending order are Rustlands Arena, Sanctuary Arena, Woodland Arena, Burned Fields, and Sealed Archives.

Keep in mind this doesn't mean a whole lot since the xp per second varies so much from 58 to 100, and the fact that I've only run into most maps a handful of times anywhere throughout that spread, I really just don't have enough data. If a map only appears in a later monolith, it's going to show up higher on this list. If I ever take a character or two through each empowered mono at least once, then looking at just the level 100 data could be interesting. I'll probably just keep making new characters, though.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





I'm playing this Cast on Crit build - https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/allie---cast-on-crit-spark-charge-runemaster

It's a really good build, but I'm not getting anywhere near the same levels of ward that she does. On bosses (training dummy) I can sustain 7k and occasionally hit 8k, but she's claiming 30k+ on bosses.

Is it all just because I don't have the Volley of Glass node due to mana issues, or is it just in perfecting gear? The build is fully online (minus that one node) at level 83 and wrecks stuff pretty well, but the bosses are kind of slow (probably because of that node for sure on bosses).

Do I need to just get the boots of the mountain for mana sustain vs. bosses and take that node? I guess I just don't understand why my builds (with less than perfect gear for sure) never come anywhere close to the numbers of the build guides that I follow. I mean the builds work just fine, but slower and with much lower ward numbers generally.

I can still facetank the bosses in empowered mono's so far, so it's not like the build really needs more defense at this point. I'm just kind of curious why it underperforms the written guide so much at this point when everything is up and running and I don't see anything in the 'perfect gear' vs. mine that will generate a lot more ward.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


im not sure how much that specific node affects things but i can confirm 30-40k ward on bosses with that build in my mediocre gear.

definitely get the boots they make a huge difference.

e: also do you have a twisted heart? because that is a big ward generator as well

Awesome! fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 16, 2024

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002

The Locator posted:

I'm playing this Cast on Crit build - https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/allie---cast-on-crit-spark-charge-runemaster

It's a really good build, but I'm not getting anywhere near the same levels of ward that she does. On bosses (training dummy) I can sustain 7k and occasionally hit 8k, but she's claiming 30k+ on bosses.

Is it all just because I don't have the Volley of Glass node due to mana issues, or is it just in perfecting gear? The build is fully online (minus that one node) at level 83 and wrecks stuff pretty well, but the bosses are kind of slow (probably because of that node for sure on bosses).

Do I need to just get the boots of the mountain for mana sustain vs. bosses and take that node? I guess I just don't understand why my builds (with less than perfect gear for sure) never come anywhere close to the numbers of the build guides that I follow. I mean the builds work just fine, but slower and with much lower ward numbers generally.

I can still facetank the bosses in empowered mono's so far, so it's not like the build really needs more defense at this point. I'm just kind of curious why it underperforms the written guide so much at this point when everything is up and running and I don't see anything in the 'perfect gear' vs. mine that will generate a lot more ward.

The boots are a big deal. It sounds like there's something else as well though. The build you're looking at is probably using god rolls on everything. You're also (probably) comparing level 83 to level 100.

Kaddish fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Apr 16, 2024

marshalljim
Mar 6, 2013

yospos

Awesome! posted:

e: also do you have a twisted heart? because that is a big ward generator as well

I bet it's this.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Awesome! posted:

im not sure how much that specific node affects things but i can confirm 30-40k ward on bosses with that build in my mediocre gear.

definitely get the boots they make a huge difference.

e: also do you have a twisted heart? because that is a big ward generator as well

I do not, forgot to check my inventory for that after hitting level 80... I will give that a shot, thanks.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


also another thing is that you have a lot of ward generation tied specifically to hitting a rare or unique enemy that is branded. im not sure if a target dummy would count for that and when fighting the boss you need to be maintaining your brand. in the base version of the build that requires flame dashing onto the boss every ~4 seconds. on the nova variant you perma-brand bosses just by casting so you dont need to worry about it.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Awesome! posted:

also another thing is that you have a lot of ward generation tied specifically to hitting a rare or unique enemy that is branded. im not sure if a target dummy would count for that and when fighting the boss you need to be maintaining your brand. in the base version of the build that requires flame dashing onto the boss every ~4 seconds. on the nova variant you perma-brand bosses just by casting so you dont need to worry about it.

I do the flame-dash branding. I have no idea if for some reason that doesn't work on dummies.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


ok, i just dont know if a dummy counts as a rare or unique enemy to give you the extra ward on hit.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Awesome! posted:

ok, i just dont know if a dummy counts as a rare or unique enemy to give you the extra ward on hit.

There is a specific dummy that says "Counts as a boss" when you highlight it.

Edit: Checked stash, and I don't have a twisted heart even though I've killed that dumb dragon a bunch of times across 5 characters now.

The Locator fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 16, 2024

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Loaded up on relic prophecies and killed the emperor again...



Welp, nope... time to reset the mono and start pushing the corruption up I suppose.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

The Locator posted:

There is a specific dummy that says "Counts as a boss" when you highlight it.

Edit: Checked stash, and I don't have a twisted heart even though I've killed that dumb dragon a bunch of times across 5 characters now.

Heart is fairly rare, 1 LP heart is even worse, and it was so painful when I was trying to get +4 to FC on a 1LP heart for the ultimate slot for the nova version of the build, and finally got a 1 LP heart and a relic with +4 FC and...temporal sanctum slammed the wrong affix onto the heart. I mean, I know it's only a 25% chance to get it right, but still, that one hurt

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





StarkRavingMad posted:

Heart is fairly rare, 1 LP heart is even worse, and it was so painful when I was trying to get +4 to FC on a 1LP heart for the ultimate slot for the nova version of the build, and finally got a 1 LP heart and a relic with +4 FC and...temporal sanctum slammed the wrong affix onto the heart. I mean, I know it's only a 25% chance to get it right, but still, that one hurt

Yeah.. I have a +3 FC relic right now, but I'm sure I'll miss the slam if/when I actually find a 1LP heart.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
Yeah, running a build like that REALLY needs to embrace the mindset that "this item would be awesome to have but it isn't mandatory to get it and I can still have fun at the corruption levels I can reach with suboptimal but attainable gear"

because you probably aren't getting those two items, and even if you do you probably aren't getting the legendary cache to hit, and if you're playing MG it's so far in meta that you probably aren't getting enough gold to just buy them

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Dallan Invictus posted:

Yeah, running a build like that REALLY needs to embrace the mindset that "this item would be awesome to have but it isn't mandatory to get it and I can still have fun at the corruption levels I can reach with suboptimal but attainable gear"

because you probably aren't getting those two items, and even if you do you probably aren't getting the legendary cache to hit, and if you're playing MG it's so far in meta that you probably aren't getting enough gold to just buy them

Yeah, I know. I definitely wasn't in the mindset of needing them, but having gotten both things and then blowing the slam was pretty sad. At least I duplicated the +4 relic first with a rune of creation, so all I have to do is luck into another 1LP Heart.

But I switched to trying a Wraithlord shortly after that and haven't really gone back to Runemaster anyway. I should use the Wraithlord to farm a heart, actually....

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


that particular slam was one that made me really happy to be mg lol

1lp heart and a t6 frostclaw relic was about 45 mil total when i bought them.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
Yeah that wasn't so much for you as for anyone else reading the thread who maybe needed it. It's probably my fault for reading too much Discourse about this game elsewhere with people getting way too attached to very low-probability outcomes.

The Locator
Sep 12, 2004

Out here, everything hurts.





Awesome! posted:

also another thing is that you have a lot of ward generation tied specifically to hitting a rare or unique enemy that is branded. im not sure if a target dummy would count for that and when fighting the boss you need to be maintaining your brand. in the base version of the build that requires flame dashing onto the boss every ~4 seconds. on the nova variant you perma-brand bosses just by casting so you dont need to worry about it.

I put on the crappy +3 FC relic and switched to Nova just to try it... and honestly, it's a hell of a lot more fun than the lightning blast build, but oh man am I squishy after the respec. My spell crit rate dropped to just over 40% from 79% which is really hurting my ward generation I think, plus the respec based on the build guide removes a lot of ward generation from both skills and the passive trees. The biggest hits to my crit rate were losing the extremely high crit from Daggoroth's Claw, plus I had a very good purple hat with a T6 or T7 crit chance plus a really good crit implicit. Those got swapped for a 2LP Mad Alchemists ladle and a non-LP Crest of Unity. The ladle I got a really good slam on with T6 crit chance, but I had an even better LP affix on the Claw.

In addition the gear changes really hammered my resists, so I'm actively working towards patching them up, as I'm taking one-shots from trash packs now. Possibly because it's absolutely impossible to see what's going on now because the entire screen is filled with bright flashing Nova explosions. Lol.

The DPS is definitely higher and it's great not needing to dash to brand stuff. I want to get the boots of the mountain, but honestly that would crater my crit and defenses even more, and I'm not really having mana issues so I'm not really prioritizing that. I can mostly face-tank Ryath at 150 corruption even with the much lower ward levels and generation, but I did completely lose my ward and take some health damage at one point in the fight. Oh yeah my health went from about 2150 to just over 1500 with the gear swaps also, which kinda hurts also.

Still, playing around like this is a lot more fun than just endlessly grinding for the perfect gear and blessings (shakes fist at Ryath for refusing to give me the correct blessing about 7 times now).

Tonetta
Jul 9, 2013

look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*
I got 2 2lp hearts while I was still playing (I quit when I realized I didn't wanna grind out those first 1000 corruption again on a third character) and the first was on a really sketchy piece that had double T7 health and strength and well.. it did not go very well! the second one worked out fine though! I have a dozen 1lp hearts too, but I don't really like 25% chance tries when I really just needed that T7 strength and I didn't have that many T7 strength to attempt.

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Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002

The Locator posted:

Yeah.. I have a +3 FC relic right now, but I'm sure I'll miss the slam if/when I actually find a 1LP heart.

I've since stopped playing LE for a bit but I put probably 60ish hours just into Runemaster Frostclaw and had like two +frost claw items drop in total.

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