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I rewatched JW1 this past weekend and I forgot how slow and measured it is. There's hardly a gun or fight in the first 45 minutes. I like how the series has evolved though, but there's something to be said for the sheer simplicity of JW1. It's just a man his dog and a car.
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Aug 4, 2019 23:05
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In JW1 I took the club fight as problematic for the goons because there were so many patrons around. It was actually kinda refreshing that the bad guys didn't just spray bullets all willy nilly, they tried to corner Wick and failed miserably. I might be misremembering, but I don't think even a single patron died in the shootout.
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Aug 5, 2019 09:13
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But tragically a lot of Patron was lost.
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Aug 5, 2019 12:41
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Grendels Dad posted:In JW1 I took the club fight as problematic for the goons because there were so many patrons around. It was actually kinda refreshing that the bad guys didn't just spray bullets all willy nilly, they tried to corner Wick and failed miserably. I might be misremembering, but I don't think even a single patron died in the shootout. That's something I liked in the first and second movies, they really tried hard to not have collateral damage. I don't think any of the fights in the third one were even in public areas.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:10
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TychoCelchuuu posted:I think the first movie is actually the worst in terms of people literally running at John instead of backing up, or even just staying still and using their gun. The sequence in the club has a lot of parts where people who have guns decide to run up to John so that he can do some fancy move on them and then shoot them. Why are they running up to him? Why not shoot him? Because it's cooler if they run up to him. If you keep your eyes open for it, I think you'll notice it much more in JW1 than 2 or 3. That at least was the impression I got when I rewatched 1 and 2 before 3. I haven't rewatched 3 but my recollection is that it has much less "people with guns decide they need to be close enough to lick the Wick rather than just shooting at him." I'll watch it again. Might have been the rose-tint in action.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:31
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Azubah posted:That's something I liked in the first and second movies, they really tried hard to not have collateral damage. I don't think any of the fights in the third one were even in public areas.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:35
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See Also: Silenced Shoot-Out in Crowded NYC Airport
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Aug 5, 2019 17:47
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In terms of gunplay(hand to hand fighting is a different discussion), the choreography has mostly been a steady improvement from 1 to 2 to 3. There are some moments in John Wick that look a bit overly choreographed and sluggish compared to Chapter 2. Chapter 3 focused a bit less on gunplay but what is there is pretty flawless imo. It's easy to forget how fresh and unique the choreography in the original felt at the time though. John Wick(along with Kingsman, which should probably get more credit than it does) has almost completely changed the game in just a few short years.
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Aug 5, 2019 18:11
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I think it’s really important to point out that they haven’t so much “changed the game” as much as they just started listening to all their Asian fight choreographers saying “why do you guys over edit everything? Just like frame the action and light it so people can see what is happening” Like action movies from the East have looked this good and been this brutal for over a decade, they just never got mainstream appeal. John Wick stands in such a stark contrast to Marvel style action and that helped it find its footing in our audience but it’s not exactly an innovation they can claim.
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Aug 5, 2019 18:38
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Bust Rodd posted:I think it’s really important to point out that they haven’t so much “changed the game” as much as they just started listening to all their Asian fight choreographers saying “why do you guys over edit everything? Just like frame the action and light it so people can see what is happening” It’s not a special quality of the mystic East, it’s that most American films have to cast a famous name to get a budget and most famous actors are not also acrobats and martial artists. There are lots of edits because there is no actual fight, not because it didn’t occur to them to show it more plainly. SE Asian, Chinese, and Korean action movies typically have lower budgets and are not star vehicles, and when they are it’s usually for an actor who IS an acrobat or martial artist.
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Aug 5, 2019 18:56
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^^^^Yea that's exactly what I'm getting at, you beat me to itBust Rodd posted:I think it’s really important to point out that they haven’t so much “changed the game” as much as they just started listening to all their Asian fight choreographers saying “why do you guys over edit everything? Just like frame the action and light it so people can see what is happening” Innovation is probably not the right way to put it, but I do think John Wick stands as an important example for other American filmmakers that you can have your cake and eat it too. You can cast an actor with star power AND have impressive looking action choreography that has real flow to it. You don't have to compromise on either just because Liam Neeson made one really successful revenge flick. In the past I think they shied away from it because that kind of choreography, with the wider angles and less cuts, takes lots of training to make it look good. And so they figured ok well we can have a big star in the lead role but we can't ask them to spend all this time in intense training. I think Keanu putting John Wick out there said to the whole industry that you can ask more of actors and it will absolutely show itself in the final product.
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Aug 5, 2019 19:01
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It just depends on the actor. It's a lot of work over a fairly long period of time and they have to want to do it. Keanu clearly enjoyed learning Kung Fu for Matrix on some level.
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Aug 5, 2019 22:44
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And even if you do have actors who put in the time, it will still often take quite a bit longer to actually film. Even with a whole cast of trained and motivated people there are lots of thing that can go wrong during an action scene that require another take (or fifty). At least if you're committed to clear, long shots. If you're doing the whole rapid cuts thing it's much easier to cobble something together from a handful of individually flawed takes. There was actually a documentary about Jackie Chan's movies that went into same thing. Chan is a huge perfectionist, and will happily do upwards of a hundred takes to get a particular sequence just right. The results are impressive, but that's only really possible because Chan has enough clout to get studios to go along with how much time it takes to make that happen.
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Aug 8, 2019 15:26
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Perestroika posted:And even if you do have actors who put in the time, it will still often take quite a bit longer to actually film. Even with a whole cast of trained and motivated people there are lots of thing that can go wrong during an action scene that require another take (or fifty). At least if you're committed to clear, long shots. If you're doing the whole rapid cuts thing it's much easier to cobble something together from a handful of individually flawed takes. I like to think that when it comes to this aspect of it, the worm has turned and studios understand the kind of action people want. Ten quick cuts just to show a punch being thrown just isn't acceptable anymore, and John Wick was definitely a contributor to that change.
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Aug 8, 2019 15:30
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Perestroika posted:And even if you do have actors who put in the time, it will still often take quite a bit longer to actually film. Even with a whole cast of trained and motivated people there are lots of thing that can go wrong during an action scene that require another take (or fifty). At least if you're committed to clear, long shots. If you're doing the whole rapid cuts thing it's much easier to cobble something together from a handful of individually flawed takes. I once made an action film (as a student) and yes, long takes are loving horrific in terms of work. Look at the post-apocalyptic "one take" Batman sequence in BvS; some of those hits are pretty drat sloppy but I'm sure Affleck wasn't willing to do 50 takes in his Bat-Suit just to get it just right. BTW, I ended up cutting my movie more than I wanted. We did the fight 5 times, from 3 angles, and then I put it together. Watched it again like 10 years later and it was insanely bad, because I kept breaking the left-right flow and reversing fighter positions.
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Aug 8, 2019 16:57
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I once made an action film (as a student) and yes, long takes are loving horrific in terms of work. Look at the post-apocalyptic "one take" Batman sequence in BvS; some of those hits are pretty drat sloppy but I'm sure Affleck wasn't willing to do 50 takes in his Bat-Suit just to get it just right. My favourite story about a long take action scene was from Hard Boiled, the best John Woo film (don't @ me) The heroes move down a corridor, killing dozens of goons in the process. They then get in an elevator and kill a bunch more on the next level. Except they didn't go up a level. While the two actors were in the elevator, they cleaned up the explosion and blood wracked floor they'd just left, resetting everything in about 30 seconds, and then shot it all up again. It's just amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bozxgVQ9m0
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Aug 9, 2019 02:03
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Snowman_McK posted:My favourite story about a long take action scene was from Hard Boiled, the best John Woo film (don't @ me) On a smaller scale I learned from Edgar Wright's Twitter that they did something similar in Scott Pilgrim that I just assumed was some kind of editing or visual effects trickery. https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/1142754861810900993?s=20
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Aug 9, 2019 02:29
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It's not an action scene but Kurosawa did that to great effect in Throne of Blood to make the witch and her hut very suddenly disappear. They basically had the entire hut+props strung like a marionette around the trees. So throughout the scene it has shots of the witch and of our two lords' faces as they converse. Mifune and his co-star are framed by the hut's doorway.and it zooms on them a bit as they react/etc. Then at the end it zooms in past the doorway and then zooms out really fast as everything is being pulled away just out of site so all in camera they go from furnished interior to an empty forest all around them. 
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 06:35
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So I just watched the first two movies for the first time. I went in not knowing anything except that a dog got murdered. JW1 was just insane(ly good) and that telephone call to Viggo was perfect, especially looking back now and realizing that "he killed three guys in a bar with a pencil" was literal and not just a long way of saying "he's badass." Anyway, I like the movies and I'm excited to watch the third one at some point. My only criticism is that scene in the second movie where JW and the main assassin he was fighting was casually strolling through a crowded area with JW up on the 2nd floor and the other guy on the ground floor. My complaint is that these two people are shown to be expert assassins with perfect aim yet for whatever reason they just kept shooting at each other and missing the entire time. That part really made no sense to me.
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Aug 20, 2019 18:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:My only criticism is that scene in the second movie where JW and the main assassin he was fighting was casually strolling through a crowded area with JW up on the 2nd floor and the other guy on the ground floor. My complaint is that these two people are shown to be expert assassins with perfect aim yet for whatever reason they just kept shooting at each other and missing the entire time. That part really made no sense to me. They're not aiming. Like seriously just trying to shoot someone from the side with a pistol held at chest level is nuts. If anything, the argument should be that it was reckless and dangerous to all the innocent bystanders around them.
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Aug 20, 2019 18:38
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Also a waste of bullets. The justification on Wick's part is probably that he needs to get each new enemy out of the way as quickly as possible to make room for the next one, and that he doesn't care about ammo because he can always just take the next enemy's weapon after killing them with stationary. Why the other dude wouldn't wait for a clear shot, I have no idea.
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Aug 20, 2019 18:46
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I take their willingness to use less than perfectly efficient methods as reflecting this being an emotional thing for Cassian, not just a job, and Wick not totally having his heart in killing an old friend with a justified beef.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:34
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Oh poo poo, looks like JW3 is up to buy on VUDU, I know what I'm doing with my weekend.
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Aug 23, 2019 17:49
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Basebf555 posted:Oh poo poo, looks like JW3 is up to buy on VUDU, I know what I'm doing with my weekend. Drinking Blantons while counting all the people killed? i'm betting...173 total.
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Aug 24, 2019 02:45
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Take a shot every time John kills a person.
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Aug 24, 2019 02:47
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 Pew pew
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Aug 24, 2019 06:39
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Watched today and liked it a lot, but the cliffhanger ending was really annoying.
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Aug 25, 2019 05:09
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I mean, it makes sense. The "chapter" branding presumably isn't an accident- when it's all said and done, it'll probably feel more like one insane movie split into 4(+) parts than a series.
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Aug 25, 2019 12:16
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean, it makes sense. The "chapter" branding presumably isn't an accident- when it's all said and done, it'll probably feel more like one insane movie split into 4(+) parts than a series. Yeah, my dad heard about these and told me he watched 3 and didn't understand the story... I had to explain they basically take place over a week and the third starts the same day as the second ends and so on. Why would anyone start with the third one of anything though? 
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Aug 25, 2019 12:42
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Some guy next to me asked questions here and there during the movie, because he apparently thought 3 was 2 so he was mega confused. This person was also confused Elton John, of all people was getting a film, because “I didn’t think he was that popular...”
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Aug 25, 2019 13:39
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all the dumb boomers in the theater i went to did was cheer loudly at all the kills
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Aug 25, 2019 16:53
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I said come in! posted:Watched today and liked it a lot, but the cliffhanger ending was really annoying. I will say I felt the same, mostly because at the end of 2 I was like “hell yeah in the next movie John Wick is gonna gently caress up the entire assassin organization” and then that doesn’t happen in 3 and 3 leaves me with the same feeling as 2. I want him to gently caress them up already!
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Aug 25, 2019 17:08
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Yeah but like we’ve seen already that numerous people can beat John Wick. Like if the Russians in the beginning of the first movie hadn’t left any witnesses Or if Willem Dafoe had just kept his contract Or if the two ninjas in 3 hadn’t been so respectful So the longer the franchise goes on the less mystical he becomes and the less believable him going to war with a bulletproof assassin army becomes. If the entirety of John Wick 4 is just a single palace siege of John taking down the assassin’s table, I’m gonna be bummed.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:00
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah but like we’ve seen already that numerous people can beat John Wick. thats why in 4 he's gonna need the help of morpheus and lt.daniels (and possibly common????)
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Aug 25, 2019 18:09
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Stairmaster posted:all the dumb boomers in the theater i went to did was cheer loudly at all the kills If they did that, were they truly dumb? e: also I kind of love that millenials and olds are connecting over Keanu
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Aug 25, 2019 18:47
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah but like we’ve seen already that numerous people can beat John Wick. Eh, I might suggest that his mythology is based on his tenacity and not his skills of always winning. No matter what you do to him, he’s like the Terminator and keeps coming for you. When there is nothing left, he’ll use whatever it takes — like a loving pencil! — to kill you. The bad guy’s speech about him is all about him being a single and powerful force of will that accomplishes his goals iirc.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:58
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah but like we’ve seen already that numerous people can beat John Wick. You really want a version of this with just Keanu playing Superman and walking into a chaingun of bullets bouncing off his eye? I like that they've set him up to be the best but not stupidly unstoppable. He needs allies and he needs luck, otherwise there's no tension.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:01
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Blast Fantasto posted:I will say I felt the same, mostly because at the end of 2 I was like “hell yeah in the next movie John Wick is gonna gently caress up the entire assassin organization” and then that doesn’t happen in 3 and 3 leaves me with the same feeling as 2. I want him to gently caress them up already! Exactly, and really this is entirely my fault. I went into this film expecting the story to be resolved and done with. All that said I will be ready to watch chapter 4 in two years. Also, we now get Morpheus and Neo working together again. 
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Aug 25, 2019 21:58
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I said come in! posted:Also, we now get Morpheus and Neo working together again. Yeah, but they're recasting Morpheus with a younger actor for Matrix 4.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:38
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, but they're recasting Morpheus with a younger actor for Matrix 4. Younger Morpheus with older Neo and Trinity? I know they'll just handwave
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Aug 25, 2019 23:34
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