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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:The last few weeks have shown that electoralism is not going to save us. Turns out you can't vote to fix a system that is expressly designed to be resistant to change via elections. That doesn't mean that all avenues to fixing things have closed - perhaps if this pushes more leftists to focus less on electoralism and more on direct action and alternative power structures, then we'll get the change we need to have a better life, faster even than if Bernie hadn't been ratfucked by the DNC out of this nomination. It wasn't so much the DNC but the media that really did the heavy lifting. It is so angering that Trump says the media is the enemy of the people and these days I am inclined to believe it. Yes he says it for a very shallow reason but its true. I cannot vote for Biden. The lesser of two evils that I am forced into voting for is so close to the original evil that I might as well just leave it blank and focus on progressives fighting for actual change. I'm sick of this party that does nothing for me but pay lipservice. I have some real problems in my life just like most other people in the world. Its not that I just want change, I need change and Biden just isn't it. Yeah the mask will be back on but I can't live like that. After seeing what could be how can I vote for anything less than that? My brother and I have been talking. We have both been reliable democratic voters for years. No more. Watching how the party establishment handled Bernie was the final straw. It really showed they don't care what we want and need they just expect us to vote because you can't vote for the other guy. I am so fed up with the democratic establishment giving us the worst choices just to keep the power of their patronage networks and keep power in the hands of the donor class. We are both leaving the party and will no longer work hard to elect their presidents. The hope I felt when Sanders won Nevada is still there. What can we do beyond electoralism because it feels like voting in presidential elections might just be a dead end when we have a media and DNC that would hold onto power at the cost of the poor? What can we do with this righteous indignation?
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Mar 16, 2020 10:26
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I'm still trying to come to grips with feeling guilty about not voting for the shitlib in the election because the republican is worse. I keep thinking that if they wanted my vote or for me to remain in the party they would have tried ticking some of my boxes but they didn't. In fact they went the opposite direction. Healthcare is very important to me because I have some pretty expensive health problems that have put me on disability. Because of this I don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of and what little money left over after child support goes to doctors visit copays and prescription drugs. Joe literally does next to nothing about any of that. In fact he has lied about trying to cut the benefits I rely on to survive. I'm really at a crossroads here. I voted for hillary last election and I felt bad about it because of how terrible she is and this election I'm seeing the same problem with Biden. I guess I just don't know if I am making the right choice and I could really use some perspective.
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Mar 16, 2020 16:17
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joepinetree posted:Here's some perspective for you: Yeah I am done with the bullshit. This party obviously doesn't want someone like me in it.
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Mar 16, 2020 16:52
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Shady Amish Terror posted:To be honest I was fine with 'vote blue no matter who' last round. I voted Bernie, then Hillary without much complaint because she at least seemed to be vaguely competent at most points in her career, and the choice of 'enable fascist rhetoric under the biggest rear end in a top hat grifter in the public spotlight or...don't do that' was pretty obvious. The problem is that Biden this round isn't even really the blue option. His career loving reeks of constantly being just an utterly terrible human being with few or no positions that I agree on, his campaign is actively contemptuous of me, and he is visibly deteriorating on top of everything else. The last president who I recall being largely absent in leadership while their clown-car of assholes ran the show was W., so uh, given the sort of actively derisive language coming out of the Biden camp, I don't have high hopes of them being much better than Trump. I would and may still vote for Biden under the guise of damage control, but given they've been signalling that they want to give control back to the Republicans for judicial appointments even if they DO win, I find myself questioning the validity of that as well. gently caress them. They do not deserve us. It is time to start taking our power back. Though we need them to win they also need us. We need to ensure they never win another national election until they treat us a little better. The way I look at this is we are abused spouses that just keep going back and getting abused. Personally I am sick of the abuse. I know we are going to need to help those effected by republican governance while this is happen by helping fund groups that help immigrants, LGBT folks, and schools but thats a small price to pay. I'm going to keep helping the animal shelter but I might figure out a way to help the people that lost their homes in puerto rico considering I live in Orlando because I know the republicans won't. Just consider it. This system is hosed already. maybe its time to rebuild it from the ground up.
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Mar 16, 2020 19:19
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The more I think about it the more angry I get. I'm 37 and every election besides the first Obama election (which he lied about being progressive) I have voted for the lesser of two evils and they have lost because they were just pretty much moderate republicans. At what point do you get off the merry go round and say no more?
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Mar 16, 2020 20:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Arguments over protest [non]voting tend to devolve into bitter invective over which side is representative of smug, self-satisfied, privileged white people. This is a thought I have recently had too. If there are supposedly more democrats then why do we almost always lose? Why do we live in austerity? Why do we always need to be fearful that the other guy is worse? I won't be cowed into that anymore.
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Mar 16, 2020 21:59
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Prester Jane posted:I can't think of a single advocate for protest voting itt who has ever argued that the symbolic act of refusing to participate in a rig process was where the strategy would end- instead of it being merely the first step in a very long process of reform. This. I just can't blindly vote for the lesser of two evils anymore because it is soul crushing. Im proud I get to vote for Bernie though. He actually deserves my vote. Do you think if Obama had actually been a progressive Trump wouldn't have happened?
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Mar 16, 2020 23:27
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Don't vote downballot either, unless the candidate is a socialist running on the Democratic ticket. Which almost never happens. Im going to only vote for progressives. I vote today because Im in florida so Im doing some research. I'm really hoping that this situation with covid-19 is the crisis we need to get people to realize that what we have been doing isn't working for most people and that it is time to try the reasonable alternative which is socialism. I mean we already have it for the very wealthy so why can't I have healthcare?
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Mar 17, 2020 14:45
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Prester Jane posted:Wrong. You clearly prefer the preservation of your comfortable status quo and you're prepared to sacrifice as many minorities as it takes to keep you comfortable. This rings very true for me Prester Jane. I'm on disability and have some pretty bad health problems so I am pretty vulnerable. Biden is probably going to hurt my situation which is already flimsy at best. Why should I vote for that? Why should I tell them that "go ahead and gently caress me because I will vote for you anyway because I have no other option." Well I have another option and that is to not vote for this bullshit. Most democrats these days are 90s era reagan republicans that are just a little bit better on social issues. I'm done with this party. They have open contempt for me for being a moderate by world standards. The minute they move left to at least the center I might consider voting for them but as it is now I'm only voting downballot for progressives and I'm hoping a lot of other people do to so that they can ask "why do we never win elections?"
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Mar 17, 2020 23:25
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Its time to stop the neoliberalism while we can.
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Mar 18, 2020 19:45
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JerikTelorian posted:I'm genuinely not following this logic. Whether it's Trump or Biden generally privileged people are going to be doing somewhere from fine to great. The real problem is the media has overcome people's senses that better things are possible. In spite of other countries have many of the things we want here we are told everyday by both MSM and our establishment democrats that this is as good as it gets. Biden is just a continuation of that. I do see a mass movement of progressive ideology in our future. 2016 we were awoken and activated. 2020 just think about how many donations and volunteers Bernie had. It just isn't the right the time and it isnt big enough yet. I have to believe that instead of giving into the cynicism because dying penniless and uncomfortable is too bitter a pill for me to swallow and I choose to hold onto hope.
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Mar 19, 2020 09:51
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Ytlaya posted:Neither candidate has a non-zero chance of fixing things for the oppressed, and both will actively cause a large amount of harm. The drone strikes and libya kinda outweighed the ACA. also all the people that went bankrupt. And the kids in cages. I do think that marriage equality was pretty freaking awesome though.
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Mar 19, 2020 20:01
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sexpig by night posted:yea if I phone banked for biden I'd probably not care enough to lie and just go 'look Biden's likely said the n-word less than Trump, isn't that all that we Democrats want at this point', so if anything I'm helping him by doing nothing. Indeed. This is one of the things that really aggravates me to no end about the USPOL thread. Anytime a person makes a point about how the parties are similar you have a bunch of people sarcastically saying "the parties are the same! the parties are the same!". Its annoying because it adds nothing to any conversation. No one thinks the parties are exactly the same but the fact remains we have two right wing pro corporate parties. Yes the republicans are worse but by how much. Lets say you have 100 dollars in your bank account and one group will take 90 of it and another group will take 98 of it. Yes one group is objectively worse, but in the end it doesn't really matter because both groups are bad enough that if you are poor losing any amount of money will be a huge hit on your life. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact those posters have some comfort in their life and can afford the energy to think about things beyond where their next meal is coming from or how they are going to afford their meds, or what they can do about their kids birthday this year. I guess what I am trying to say is there are people saying that if you tacitly approve of a party that is getting closer and closer in nature to the bad party they will only ever get worse. This is displayed by how the party handled Bernie, a person that actually wanted to help people. Am I wrong? Am I missing something? Sorry I just read USPOL while I am working and I don't have time to post about the bad takes I see that aggravate me.
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Jul 21, 2020 11:26
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WampaLord posted:The greater point that ManBoyChef appears to be making is that any sort of criticism of Democratic politicians or policies, no matter how valid, gets brushed aside and dismissed by posters who go "How can you possibly say the Democrats are bad? The Republicans are far worse!" over and over, not realizing that Democrats can still be bad even if the Republicans are far worse. This is exactly what I mean. The fact we have not accepted and acknowledged the criticism of the democrats as a whole is what has led to the fact that they are just as much of a right wing pro corporate party as the republicans. Yes there is a certain wokeness you won't get with the republicans, but when it boils down to helping the poor, ensuring people have the power to stand up to corporations when they do them wrong, and having a little bit of autonomy in the workplace they are just as bad. Yes some people are helped by the ACA, but have you ever thought that this just isn't good enough and this is exactly what a republican plan in the nineties would be? The democrats just aren't good enough. All of us deserve so much better.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:48
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