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readingatwork posted:I was a Stein voter in 2016. I'm not sorry, and I swear to God if I have to endure another year of being told how casting a protest vote in a safe state caused Trump when there are like fifty reasons Hillary lost (most of them boiling down to "Hillary loving sucked") I swear to Satan himself that I will write Jill in again in 2020 just on the off chance that it brings about WWIII and nukes us all. I will do it God damnit, just watch me. Because we have to stop fascism! #Resist
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Aug 22, 2019 23:12
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Momentum is also the reason we can't afford another Obama, who built a coalition and then said "Your job's done, go home now" when elected.
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Nov 1, 2019 15:37
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I'm voting for Bernie Sanders.
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Mar 5, 2020 06:08
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They're going to blame the left for their losses and dismiss the left when they win, and Biden eating poo poo in November probably won't change that. Vote for Sanders if he's the candidate who credibly represents your principles and policy goals. Which is what I'm doing.
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Mar 11, 2020 17:00
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I'll vote for Democrats I support and write in candidates if I don't support them. I live in VA, and there are a lot of lovely CIA Democrats like Abigail Spanberger and Claire Russo.
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Mar 11, 2020 17:11
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Idunno guys, I think the Democrats revealed pretty quickly after Clinton's loss that they didn't really care about reforming or eliminating the EC.
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Mar 16, 2020 05:04
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I don't want to sound ghoulish--the coronavirus panic is frankly loving me up--but our political and economic system was going to collapse eventually, and if this crisis finally rips the veneer off of the underlying failures, it's not nearly as bad as some of the other possibilities I've envisioned.
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Mar 16, 2020 15:25
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ManBoyChef posted:I'm still trying to come to grips with feeling guilty about not voting for the shitlib in the election because the republican is worse. I keep thinking that if they wanted my vote or for me to remain in the party they would have tried ticking some of my boxes but they didn't. In fact they went the opposite direction. Healthcare is very important to me because I have some pretty expensive health problems that have put me on disability. Because of this I don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of and what little money left over after child support goes to doctors visit copays and prescription drugs. Joe literally does next to nothing about any of that. In fact he has lied about trying to cut the benefits I rely on to survive. I'm really at a crossroads here. I voted for hillary last election and I felt bad about it because of how terrible she is and this election I'm seeing the same problem with Biden. I guess I just don't know if I am making the right choice and I could really use some perspective. Anyone getting self-righteous with anyone else about their general election vote in the United States is ridiculous. Our electoral system is ridiculously corrupt, and one Party is actively making it worse while the other mostly doesn't give a poo poo. It's like scolding the mafia about their accounting practices. You're fine. Like, I'm going to vote for Bernie Sanders in November, whether or not he's on the ballot, but if you want to vote for Biden then I'm not going to fly into a rage at you for propping up the corrupt Democratic establishment and blah blah blah. The whole system is broken and there's no purely rational, ethical, and effective course of action to take within it. You're fine.
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Mar 16, 2020 17:17
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ManBoyChef posted:Though we need them to win
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Mar 16, 2020 19:22
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Like, I'm normally dismissive of the 'in the long run-' arguments for protest voting, because it's often used as an excuse for not doing things that can literally save lives in pursuit of some ideological purity or some vain attempt to divine the course of the future ten years out (difficult at the best of times even for small, focused questions, much less 'hey how will the thousands of things that happen over the next several years all eventually shake out'). In the short term, you can make the argument either way: that supporting "the lesser of two evils" is a privileged dismissal of the oppression that continues under either Party, or that not supporting the lesser of two evils glosses over the real differences between an amoral, neoliberal Democrat and a Republican who is not only amoral but downright hateful. In any kind of long-term analysis, obediently supporting the Democratic Party has allowed it to become more and more right-wing, and less and less effective at doing anything progressive at all. As far as I'm concerned, this is simply an empirical fact. More Americans identify as Democrats than as Republicans--so why do the Republicans control all three branches of government? You can point to voter suppression, the Electoral College, the Senate, all these structural barriers to democracy--but that's begging the question. Why doesn't the Democratic Party mobilize its voters and pass legislation to reform these institutions in its favour? The Republican Party manages to do that, again, with a smaller share of the electorate. To the extent that we have a democracy, our democracy is broken, and so is the Party. It also seems obvious to me that an electoral strategy of constantly motivating your voters with panic and fear of your political opponents is exploitative and undemocratic. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 16, 2020 |
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Mar 16, 2020 21:39
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I have a pretty simple rubric I use: if the Democratic candidate supports M4A, a federal $15 minimum wage, Green New Deal, abortion rights, LGBTQIA rights generally, and doesn't support any obviously noxious policies, I'll vote for them. They lose me the second they start pandering to the right or equivocating with "affordable access" and bullshit like that. I'm willing to compromise, not to be conned. Edit: Also I will never vote for an intelligence agency ghoul
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Mar 17, 2020 14:58
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Do you think they'll have the heart to tell him?
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Mar 17, 2020 15:05
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Mutual aid and left activism is much, much better protection for yourself and your loved ones than voting for the Democratic Party. If you're not rich, they don't give a poo poo.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:37
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Skyarb posted:Ah yes you're right long term perspectives are always terrible when compared to now. Its good to know you would have failed the marshmallow test. what
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Mar 17, 2020 16:57
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Probably don't vote for an architect of the invasion of Iraq, then.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:59
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As has been said in the primary thread, if any Central/South American country had an election system as hosed up as the one that's favouring Joe Biden, the CIA would already have assassinated their elected leaders and installed Augusto Mengele, Jr. as Jefe Para La Vida.twice burned ice posted:So Republicans do not also 'wreck the loving poo poo' out of the same populations?
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Mar 17, 2020 17:06
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I think they actually agree with us and thought you were on the other side, but didn't read. I've been guilty of it once or twice!twice burned ice posted:i voted for bernie literally this morning but tell me more about perceived 'teams' you git
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Mar 17, 2020 17:08
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I know what it is Your post is logorrhea and I don't think you read CB's post
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Mar 17, 2020 17:46
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There are no arguments that Biden is a worthy candidate who deserves your vote; it's entirely based on fear of the Republicans.
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Mar 18, 2020 14:32
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JerikTelorian posted:I'm genuinely not following this logic. Whether it's Trump or Biden generally privileged people are going to be doing somewhere from fine to great. Like, why do you even believe that the Democrats "have a chance?" I feel like in order to support the Party at this point, one has to have an essentially superstitious belief that they are locked into some historical pathway that ends with a sane social democracy. But they're not. It's entirely possible for a nation to have a right-wing party and a far-right-wing party and to keep going on like that until it wrecks itself, and that's exactly what we're looking at. It's time to either build a third party or retake the Democratic Party by continuing to work from the ground up. Having to build a replacement for the Democratic Party obviously sucks. Realignment also sucks; it means fighting tooth and nail with the center of the Party, and the Party losing a lot of elections. But they're already doing that and will continue to do that. (That's without getting into Biden's horrible record. The logic is the same under President Klobuchar or whoever.)
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Mar 19, 2020 16:32
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Cerebral Bore posted:Marriage equality wasn't even Obama, though. That was the Supreme Court.
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Mar 19, 2020 21:43
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How are u posted:I'm voting for Bernie in my June primary and then whoever is (D) in November. quote:And I better loving get to vote for AOC in 2024. Have fun voting for a rapist and trying to claim the moral high ground over it. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 23:24
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How are u posted:e: oh to be clear you terminally online twitter leftists are not the democratic base
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Mar 26, 2020 13:35
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How are u posted:Actually it's 2020, FYI. A lot has changed since 2016.
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Mar 26, 2020 21:31
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For real though, I think the debate is pretty well settled. The #VoteBlueNoMatterWho people don't have any argument besides weird semantic poo poo about how it's White Privilege to not vote for a rapist. Just lame Twitter winemom idpol garbage.
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Mar 27, 2020 15:14
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Venomous posted:so what I'm taking away from this thread is that neither the working class nor anyone with standards in general has any reason to vote for Biden The centrists have nothing left at this point except weird, semantic arguments about "privilege" that center on personal morality rather than broader ethics and strategy--which had been the entire point of "pragmatic" Party line voting.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:32
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StratGoatCom posted:The dems have finally reached their absurd nadir.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:46
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How are u posted:You're talking about Bernie's inability to win the Primary, right? "Listen here, Jack!" No. You're an echo in Rapist Joe's dying brain.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:12
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Oh cool, we've reached the point where the idiot arguing with a dozen people dunking on him insists that they don't care, they're actually laughingHow are u posted:my frustration with centrists and corporate Dems  How are u posted:Those of you who say you'd rather have 4 more years of Trump if you can't have Bernie How are u posted:He will take more action than Trump. He acknowledges climate change and is campaigning for some sort of green new deal. You can argue otherwise I guess but your argument isn't based in reality. How are u posted:Any Democratic Admin will be 1000% more receptive to and proactive on climate legislation than any Republican.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:20
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At this point I feel the need to circle back around and remind everyone that the argument was never "Biden is even worse than Trump" but "Voting for the lesser evil just precipitates the slide into evil." Given that history is on our side here we don't even have to speculate on what Puddin' Brain Joe's various aides and nurses would do while he's "in office."
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Mar 31, 2020 14:10
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Halloween Jack posted:The centrists have nothing left at this point except weird, semantic arguments about "privilege" that center on personal morality rather than broader ethics and strategy--which had been the entire point of "pragmatic" Party line voting. How are u posted:Those would be the people who argue that 4 more years of Donald Trump are preferable to even a poo poo loving Biden presidency. Those people are privileged as all hell and it's loving disgusting. How are u posted:Donald Trump "not getting anything done" is ripping our country apart and inflicting suffering on millions and the fact that you can hold this abhorrent point of view shows how loving privileged you are. How are u posted:Those of you who say you'd rather have 4 more years of Trump if you can't have Bernie are the absolute living avatars of White Privilege. How are u posted:You're fully entitled to feel that way, but that is a phenomenally privileged position to take. How are u posted:You are such a privileged little poo poo to look at all that and say "sorry, but Democrats are just as bad and we need 4 more years of Trump to halt the slide into evil don't you know." Halloween Jack posted:You're an echo in Rapist Joe's dying brain.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:44
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How are u posted:This is so loving wrong I can't even imagine how poisoned your mind must be in echo chambers to get there. How are u posted:oh to be clear you terminally online twitter leftists are not the democratic base How are u posted:Brain poisoned by Twitter. How are u posted:That's fine, enjoy Leftist Twitter and feel great about yourself. How are u posted:You're willfully re-writing history to fit your anger and ideology and it's very transparent outside of your leftist twitter echo-chamber. How are u posted:He's not a leftist or a progressive, but you have created a caricature of him in your head (or really had that caricature reinforced by the online leftist echo chamber). Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 18:52
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I don't think any of us are voting for Trump, so no
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Mar 31, 2020 18:54
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As with Clinton in 2016, your vote is Joe Biden's personal property and you're committing theft by not going to the polls and handing it over to its rightful owner.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:08
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Archonex posted:I'm sure the people protest voting for Trump or not voting for Biden if he wins the democratic primary will be perfectly happy with how LGBT and other minorities are going to get legislatively genocided back into hiding (if not out of existence in some states) if Trump wins a second term. Conservatives are free to stamp on minorities because of the Democratic Party's indifference. Because of the way federalism works, and because the Democratic Party doesn't care about winning state and local races as long as the consultants get paid. Voting Blue No Matter who has empirically failed. We need a Party that will actually fight on these issues, instead of holding minorities hostage, using fear to fundraise, and getting rich losing. But more to the point: Halloween Jack posted:The thread's over. Anyone defending Party loyalism has been forced to become a parody of themselves. Voting Blue No Matter Who has demonstrably led us to the point where we're arguing the merits of two similar conservative candidates. Archonex posted:gently caress that Biden guy. Not like he was any different than Trump with his indifference to minorities instead of outright malice towards anyone the fake christians want to use as an excuse to justify their barbarism, right? Halloween Jack posted:The centrists have nothing left at this point except weird, semantic arguments about "privilege" that center on personal morality rather than broader ethics and strategy--which had been the entire point of "pragmatic" Party line voting. Archonex posted:But hey. Your morals matter more than the effect they have on the world. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 19:49
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Invoking the Cold War propaganda phrase "whataboutism" should immediately disqualify one from being taken seriously. I can't imagine why anyone thinks it's some kind of instant win button. Oh wait, I do. It comes from weird Donut Twitter conspiracy theorists who think the Soviet Union still exists and is behind everything.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:51
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LGBTQ rights is an especially moronic issue to hold up as one where we have to support Democrats in order to mitigate harm. We're talking about the Party that passed DOMA and had to be dragged to supporting gay marriage kicking and screaming. Then they lost hundreds of downticket races and effectively ceded control over the issue to whatever Cotton Mather homunculus is probably running your state legislature. Edit: It's pretty sick that people whose best electoral strategy is "Bury rape allegations and hope the pandemic is really bad so that Trump can't possibly win" are accusing us of condemning millions to die by...not voting. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 19:54
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A4R8 posted:Can some blue no matter who libs explain to me why Biden’s history of rape and white supremacy is preferable to Trump’s?
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Mar 31, 2020 20:00
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Archonex posted:purity politics Mellow Seas posted:There is value in discussing the moral question of how bad the "better" candidate can be before they're no longer worth voting for, but it seems to me that this thread has become about "will Biden be better than Trump?", which is not a moral question. How are u would really like it to be able which candidate is more evil, because that argument is convoluted and subjective. It centers people's sensibilities and outrage and a whole raft of woke discourse over which identities are allowed to express which opinions. It also gets caught up in truly absurd assessments of exactly how many people were raped, imprisoned, deported, and killed by each politician. All of which distracts from the fact that the Democratic Party is a conservative institution and Party loyalty actively harms progressive politics. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 20:02
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Archonex posted:Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push. You're just screeching and throwing a tantrum at this point. I'm sorry that conservatives hate us and the Democratic Party is happy to profit from our suffering. I don't know how you mentally go from that to yelling at people for not voting for Joe Biden.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:48
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