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i just finished reading o'neill's Chaos and i came away with two main thoughts. first is that goddamn was that bugliosi character a motherfucker, a fact which his wikipedia page does not reflect, and second is that this book would be a really good introduction to cold war parapolitical bullshit for someone that still has an unmelted brain. it touches on dozens of different important things on the subject, but mainly it's good because it gets the reader comfortable with the idea that if someone went insane in the US in a politically useful way at any time between the 60s and the 90s, jolly west was probably involved
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Aug 29, 2022 21:52
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StashAugustine posted:can't believe we have to cancel Roland the headless Thompson gunner but consider that the CIA decided they wanted roland dead, and that he spent his undeath murdering other mercenaries. sounds like an okay guy to me
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Jan 8, 2023 04:35
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fr0id posted:yeah so have y’all heard of this dude Jolly West? Seems like he was involved with Charles Manson AND the JFK assassination. I’m sure it’s a coincidence, tho. don't forget the OKC bombing (probably)! i finished aberration the other day, holy hell what a piece of scholarship. i got the bad version unfortunately, before i even knew there were two versions, but aside from being kinda stilted in places the meat of the thing was so good it hardly matters. that last episode of the programmed to chill interview was some poo poo, how does a publisher gently caress up that comprehensively
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Mar 18, 2023 14:06
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Real hurthling! posted:you fell into 'the cauldron of hate!' what a strange fuckin thing to change! the whole thing is extremely weird! that thread is also very interesting, i don't know if trineday is An Op as opposed to just a really poorly run small company, but i also am not sure how much practical difference it makes in any case i hope dr painting can get her second book done quick, and i hope she finds a less hosed publisher for it
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Mar 18, 2023 14:48
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my dad is a big reagan guy, he really doesn't like talking about iran contra so this will be fun to bring up next time we shoot the poo poo. makes me think of that parenti lecture where he talks about how preposterous the idea is that he didn't know what his people were doing what a scumbag he was, plus we have the people he brought in to thank for all the continuity of government poo poo
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Mar 19, 2023 04:44
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captainbananas posted:Reagan was a disaster. But we have Nixon to thank for all of it; Reagan didn't bring people in, he brought them back. Or, rather, they carried his idiot-rear end in front of them as a media-friendly totem. it's kinda funny, like three hours after i posted that i got to the chapter in road to 9/11 (completely excellent book so far) that gets into rumsfeld and cheney taking advantage of the chaos in the ford admin to get the advantage over kissinger and the rest of the rockefeller people. it's pretty remarkable seeing it all laid out exhaustively sourced that exactly the guys who would become the neocons had been working on their poo poo for basically thirty years before they did 9/11, and now they're on the vanguard of making sure ukraine stays an eternal meatgrinder. it's really true that the worst people in the world run everything
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Mar 19, 2023 19:08
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it sort of adds a layer of surreal disbelief that the dude that organized the coup against mossadegh was named kermit, definitely
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Mar 22, 2023 14:15
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my bony fealty posted:Finally got around to reading Legacy of Ashes and I'm about halfway through. There's some good info here but it's mind-numbing how shallow this book is. Just "so and so went here and did this and they hosed it up because uhh incompetence I guess?" i think that's good book to recommend at someone who's just getting into the the mindset of "hey maybe the government isn't completely honest with us." the basis of the whole thing is liberal as hell, like the author thinks that there needs to be an organization that does all the poo poo the CIA is supposed to do, it's just it got hijacked way early on by bad people which tainted the whole thing. this is fuckin' preposterous of course, which becomes becomes impossible to deny once you've dug a little deeper, but for the uninitiated i think there's value in having a real superficial account of all the poo poo the CIA has done that even the most feckless liberal would have to admit is a crime. seems like it'd be a lot easier to go from that to your devi's chessboards and your CHAOSes than to go from zero straight to "charles manson was an invention of MKULTRA and jolly west was involved in every important political murder from JFK to the OKC bombing"
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Mar 29, 2023 13:21
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gladio b gently caress off
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Mar 29, 2023 22:07
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i got done reading peter dale scott's road to 9/11 the other day, poo poo is dense, probably the best write-up of the political angle of the whole thing that i know of. i appreciate that he intentionally doesn't spend any time in there on the mechanics of how the towers fell, not to say it doesn't matter at all whether or not the buildings were rigged to blow before the planes hit them, just that it matters way less than the massive amount of documentary evidence that highly-placed people in the government not only knew in detail what was about to happen but also took active steps to make it happen for all the fantastic important work he's done over the years scott is still basically a liberal, it's pretty quaint in the conclusion of the book how hopeful he is that the internet will allow people to freely exchange info as a means to counter the bullshit spun up by the guys that did 9/11. i guess it goes to show that if even Literally Peter Dale Scott has massive blindspots, the rest of us need to be extra careful to interrogate our poo poo constantly. still a real good book though, i reckon most people in this thread already know about it, but if you've never read it you should
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Apr 16, 2023 14:27
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 a classic
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Apr 16, 2023 16:54
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uber_stoat posted:i wonder about at what point do the Illuminati roll up on you and strongly advise you to get with the program, like what level of wealth or power do you need to have them give you the Talk. this is the initiation process basically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_574Rxxez2c
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Apr 19, 2023 20:27
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Bombshell filing: 9/11 hijackers were CIA recruitsquote:A newly-released court filing raises grave questions about the relationship between Alec Station, a CIA unit set up to track Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and his associates, and two 9/11 hijackers leading up to the attacks, which was subject to a coverup at the highest levels of the FBI. well would you look at that!
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Apr 19, 2023 23:36
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family of secrets is fantastic, it's incredible how much crime a single family can get up to when they're that well connected there's not a lot of individual people that bear more responsibility for how the world currently exists than poppy bush
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Apr 19, 2023 23:51
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Ham Cheeks posted:Is one of the CIA's functions to take part in/control/create black markets? I'm dumb, please advise the 80s crack craze was basically entirely for the CIA's benefit. they had all this coke they were getting from their narco allies in south and central america that they needed to sell in order to fund their pet death squads all over the place (also it didn't hurt to have an opportunity to further criminalize being black). but cocaine is a rich people's drug, there's not enough of a market for it to be able to move it in the quantities they needed. but hey what's this, some guy invented this new type of coke that gets you apocalyptically high for a very short time, and you can make huge amounts of it with very little of the actual expensive drug, this is perfect. a dude named gary webb uncovered the CIA directly bringing drugs into the US to be sold in cities, and for his trouble he got his career torpedoed and ultimately tragically committed suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head, twice. they also controlled opium production in cambodia and laos while the vietnam war was going, ditto afghanistan while we were there. they're almost certainly behind the flood of fentanyl happening now yes, is the short answer. the CIA specifically and the security state more generally has done a staggering amount of gun and drug running since the end of WWII, and also human trafficking through people like epstein
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Apr 20, 2023 00:14
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i think that's a pretty useful thing when you're looking at a lot of this stuff. it becomes way easier to believe the security state intentionally got millions of people all hosed up on drugs, or orchestrated 9/11 or just ran interference for years so that it could happen, or murdered a president in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses, or ran an incredibly expansive "mind control" program that they then lied for decades about shutting down, or used/invented well-connected society people to run sexual blackmail operations, when you consider the poo poo they've gotten up to that isn't even in dispute. the immense pile of horrific poo poo they freely admit they did/are doing makes it the more out-there poo poo a lot more plausible
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Apr 20, 2023 09:26
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 i think a lot about this painting epstein had hanging up in his new york mansion that we still don't know who was paying for it (the mansion, not the painting)
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Apr 20, 2023 10:35
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my bony fealty posted:where is this painting now and can I buy a print of it or hell the original. who painted it!! the artist also did the one epstein had of bill clinton wearing monica lewinsky's dress. i don't know about prints, i hope she sells them but as far as Epstein Art goes i don't think this one can be beat. the artist sells prints on etsy  now i'm sitting here imagining trying to explain to someone that hasn't soaked their brain in parapolitics for years why this is funny
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Apr 20, 2023 12:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:There's this school of thought among certain leftists that parapolitics is, shall we say, an unhealthy distraction, partly because it shifts focus away from class conflict (if you end up fixating on individual actors), and partly because of all the right-wing/libertarian connections to parapolitics (which does happen). honestly i can't say it's the healthiest thing in the world, it's real fuckin' easy to lose the plot and get into silly disinfo poo poo. you gotta put in a lot of effort to stay grounded. it's especially tough because even some of the really out-there poo poo has basis in fact, like FEMA death camps and chemtrails, but the popular conception of them is so completely different from the reality that they barely have anything to do with one another but yeah you're right about chomsky, his argument that it doesn't matter who killed kennedy/did 9/11 has never made sense to me. i don't think there's many political questions that are more important than those (and others in the same genre), and i don't see how studying the means by which the owner class maintains its dominance is irrelevant or a distraction. it'll drive you insane maybe as you try to sift the truth from the immense pile of horseshit intentionally mixed in there, but that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile
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Apr 20, 2023 12:46
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fanfic insert posted:theres the bit about how all the early OSS men were all international lawyers and businessmen because they were the ones with expertise in international laws and finance, allowing them to just about break all the rules without breaking them with plausible cover. even more than that, all those OSS guys were lawyers from big firms that had previous experience doing what amounted to intelligence and clandestine action against various governments on behalf of businesses. you're the united fruit company and some foolish honduran workers are trying to organize, and the government is helping them or just not doing enough to repress them, get sullivan and cromwell on the horn and they'll send some guys down there to Take Care of it for you. that was a real good basis for doing basically the same thing on behalf of the US government on top of still working directly for corporations when the war ended and the OSS became the CIA. i think (but can't prove) that was dulles' and donovan's intention from the start, and once roosevelt was dead the federal government either couldn't stop them or didn't care enough to try, depending on how charitable you want to be
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Apr 20, 2023 20:11
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Shear Modulus posted:i don't know who originally suggested this, but I've heard it explained on at least programmed to chill and ghost stories for the end of the world, that prior to the world wars the closest thing to an intelligence program was businessmen returning from trips and just letting their pals in the government know about any interesting rumors they had heard. the OSS was partially just making this system official. not to defend truman and eisenhower, but i think both of them were at least a little ambivalent about how it all went down. truman thought he was authorizing a group that would just put together intelligence briefings for him and it seems to've bugged him that he didn't have any ability to get in the way of dulles and donovan's plans on account of no one respected him, and eisenhower said some stuff that suggests he knew where all this was heading, but hey the CIA got results in guatemala and iran so why make a big deal out of it
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Apr 20, 2023 23:01
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yeah that book is kinda maddening for that poo poo. i think it's still useful for someone to read that isn't already all in on CIA Delenda Est specifically because of its liberal-rear end viewpoints, but if you're reading it already knowing the history it's like come on man just put two and two together! made a lot of sense when i learned the guy that wrote it also wrote for the NYT for years, so he's basically fundamentally not capable of seeing the whole thing for what it is
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Apr 21, 2023 12:13
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anybody got anything good about jolly west's involvement in waco? it's mentioned in Aberration briefly that he might've physically been there, but it sounds like the evidence is iffy
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Apr 21, 2023 16:05
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well how else are we supposed to ward off the malign influence of louis jolyon "jolly" "motherfucker" west
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Apr 21, 2023 20:48
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mawarannahr posted:has anyone read this book by the killer of jolly west? oh my god
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Apr 21, 2023 21:59
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if you could pick one historical room to be a fly on the wall in, the interrogation room where jolly west Talked To jack ruby would be a solid choice it matters a lot less than a lot of other rooms you could choose, but what the gently caress happened in there
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Apr 21, 2023 22:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:
ever since i first heard about it that operation always struck me as kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. they hung people by their heels and drained all their blood out of them to convince the locals there were monsters in the woods, but what the hell else do you call people that hang other people by their heels and drain all their blood out of them?
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Apr 22, 2023 08:52
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maybe it would be better to not know
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Apr 22, 2023 15:33
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in light of recent events,here's a good article from last year about tucker carlson's many intelligence connectionsquote:His father, Richard “Dick” Carlson is an important journalist and high state official who was appointed by Ronald Reagan as director of the U.S. Information Agency (USIA), the body that oversees government-funded media, including Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Radio and TV Martí and Voice of America, of which Dick was also the director. (USIA has since been replaced by the U.S. Agency for Global Media). Together, these outlets are part of what The New York Times called a “worldwide propaganda network built by the CIA.” Their goal is to bombard enemy countries with regime-change propaganda. Until the 1970s, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty was directly funded by the CIA. there's some pretty hinky poo poo going on here! i'd like to know exactly what he was doing on those trips to nicaragua in the 80s! quote:Even more questions are raised when one remembers that it was not long after his second trip to Nicaragua that he formally applied to become a member of the CIA. Little about this event is known, but it was reported that, after his apparent rejection, Dick suggested he take up journalism. “They’ll take anybody,” he said. there's a shitload of other stuff, like his efforts at slandering gary webb in the 90s and enthusiastic cheerleading for bush's wars. knowing all this the poo poo he's been saying the past bunch of years comes off like a very successful limited hangout quote:Carlson is generally quite respectful of his interviewees, his affable personality and charm disarming many. Yet when a guest actually brought up systemic failures of capitalism and highlighted his network’s own part in it, Carlson shut it down. In 2019, Dutch historian Rutger Bregman was brought on to criticize the World Economic Forum at Davos, but it did not go as planned after Bregman went off-script, highlighting the phony nature of Carlson’s critique. “You are a millionaire funded by billionaires… And that’s the reason you’re not talking about these issues… You are not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem,” he told Carlson. “You’re all like ‘I’m against the globalist elite, blah, blah blah.’ It’s not very convincing,” he added, to which Carlson replied, “Why don’t you go gently caress yourself!” The interview was terminated and never broadcast. lol
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Apr 25, 2023 09:59
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Trabisnikof posted:So a new war has broken out in Sudan. Yall know what that means? weird how this keeps happening!
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Apr 25, 2023 18:51
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Irony.or.Death posted:yo if you're bored at some point and feel like elaborating on the encanto bit I'd be interested, I had trouble articulating what bothered me so much about that movie beyond the obvious "fuckers making me watch another Disney movie so my wife will be blasting this soundtrack for months" and "why is everyone so into this family most of them kind of suck and I'd hate being related to them" i drove through on my way to southern VA for a funeral last month having not been in the area for like ten years, just driving past the exit for langley on 95 was weird as gently caress. this is the world gestapo's seat of power and it's just fuckin' right there, with a sign for it and everything, i could go there if i wanted. there's not a lot of places in history that have the kind of concentrated malice of the DC metro FFT posted:you sure? 
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Apr 28, 2023 04:57
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The Atomic Man-Boy posted:2 fun stories I’ve heard about dear Allen. if you can dig up a source on the normandy thing i'd very appreciate it, i'd never heard that before but also i have precisely zero trouble believing it motherfucker hanging out in zurich during the war unauthorizedly trying to cut deals with german generals to coup hitler in exchange for peace with the western allies, so they could team up against the soviets, which i think there's a decent chance if he'd been successful the US would've honored whatever terms he gave the germans
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May 7, 2023 10:02
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just because it's objectively true doesn't mean there can't be made-up controversy about it!
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May 8, 2023 11:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:someone needs to utter the words "Jolyon West" on the presidential debate stage gotta give trump a copy of tom o'neill's book and see what happens
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May 8, 2023 12:41
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i got the bad ebook version and i don't think it really matters. dr painting has said all the info's the same regardless of the version, there's just a lot of typos and awkward phrasing in the bad versions. if you go in knowing that's a reflection of the insane story of how it didn't get edited instead of a reflection on the author herself i think it doesn't make much odds the main thing is to just read whatever version you can get your hands on because it's extraordinarily good
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May 8, 2023 15:57
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on top of the discrediting people angle (which we know for a fact they've done, consider barney and betty hill) i wonder how much of it is true believers and how much is just people that aren't subject to the same laws and morality as the rest of us flaunting that poo poo. they're all already preying on children constantly, they've built big chunks of society around keeping a steady supply of children. everything gets old if you've done it for long enough so hey let's dress up in these black robes and weird masks, hail satan, just because it's fun
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May 9, 2023 15:20
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well that's fuckin' weird!
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May 9, 2023 16:00
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i like the fifty hundred replies that are all variations on "this is stupid, you don't need a manned vehicle to poke around for spots to drill for oil," which is both probably true and doesn't seem to've much gotten in the way of the CEO saying in plain english that's exactly what the plan was
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Jun 23, 2023 09:10
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PopZeus posted:what’s the most compact summary/resource of JFK conspiracy angles to JFK-pill a boomer Dad? i enjoyed the Death is Just Around the Corner series on it but there’s no way I’m gonna be able to sell that. if books are on the table give JFK and the Unspeakable a shot. it's a pretty good broad-strokes type of deal, easily digestible and doesn't get too far in the weeds
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Jul 21, 2023 02:15
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that series is worth listening to just for the fake radio show intro on one of the episodes. mr judge is a born entertainer
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Jul 21, 2023 02:57
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