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I feel like even with the small damage increases on things like Hammer Throw and Kooper's attack, this is all a little bit much for what the battle engine is capable of. Those Cherry Bob-ombs (great name honestly) are absolutely ridiculous for what they are and where they're placed in the game! Plus it seems like every enemy encounter here is 3-4 enemies. I don't even want to know how much backtracking to the heart blocks you're doing between battles... Edit: Update on previous page.
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Jul 28, 2019 04:40
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FPzero posted:I feel like even with the small damage increases on things like Hammer Throw and Kooper's attack, this is all a little bit much for what the battle engine is capable of. Those Cherry Bob-ombs (great name honestly) are absolutely ridiculous for what they are and where they're placed in the game! Plus it seems like every enemy encounter here is 3-4 enemies. I don't even want to know how much backtracking to the heart blocks you're doing between battles... Every 2 battles or so, plus/minus 1. And yes, as FPzero said: The new update is the last post of the previous page.
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Jul 28, 2019 04:42
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Do battles at least give you boosted Star Points and Coins since you're fighting more guys per battle? Or is it kind of evening out compared to the original since the original would have you fighting more, easier fights where this hack has you fighting less, harder fights?
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Jul 28, 2019 04:49
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FPzero posted:Do battles at least give you boosted Star Points and Coins since you're fighting more guys per battle? Or is it kind of evening out compared to the original since the original would have you fighting more, easier fights where this hack has you fighting less, harder fights? It kind of evens out. Since the battles have more guys, they give more SP and so on. But, I end up fighting less because getting into fights is challenging and taxing. If I ever need to make up the difference, I'll see if I can have any luck in the Pit of 100 Trials.
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Jul 28, 2019 04:54
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From what I've been told, a lot of enemies from the base game have their star point payouts mostly unchanged. Depends on what the new enemies have as their payouts.
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Jul 28, 2019 05:00
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Honestly this seems to make the game more tedious than anything else. The first few updates had me intrigued, and I was gonna try it myself, but I think I'll just follow your let's play instead.
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Jul 28, 2019 05:13
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Araxxor posted:From what I've been told, a lot of enemies from the base game have their star point payouts mostly unchanged. Depends on what the new enemies have as their payouts. There's apparently a hidden modifier in the original Paper Mario that makes battles with more enemies give more Star Points. Three-enemy battles give 10% more, and four-enemy battles give 30% more. I think this has been left in, but I'm not sure.
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Jul 28, 2019 05:14
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Yeah, star point payouts are dependent upon a few things. The enemy's level stat, which I don't believe gets used for anything else in 64. (In TTYD, it also gets used to determine the success rate of Flurrie's Gale Force.) Star point payouts follow this formula: (Enemy's level - Mario's level) / 2 = Star point payout. So the payout will more often than not decrease by 1 every 2 levels. But the amount of enemies in a battle also affect the payout as well. If the battle starts off with 2 enemies, the payout is 10% bigger for each enemy. For 3 enemies, it's 20% bigger. And for 4 and more, it's 30% bigger per enemy. Though enemies that get summoned to battle don't have this bonus. If you were wondering why star point payouts seemed to be inconsistent from time to time, that's why. TTYD changed things up slightly. It's (Enemy's level - Mario's level) * Battle multiplier + Pit of 100 Trials XP. Battle multiplier is 0.5 if the battle starts off with 1 or 2 enemies. 0.55 if they have 3. 0.65 if they have 4. And 0.75 if it starts off with 5. So basically like in 64, the payout decreases by 1 for every 2 levels a lot of the time. But it actually rewards you more for clearing out hordes in a battle compared to 64. Pit of 100 Trials XP is an attribute exclusive to Pit of 100 Trial enemies in that enemies deep in the pit add on more star points, so you're more likely to get level ups down there. Also on that note, a horrifying revelation can come to mind. In TTYD, the level cap is 99, and level ups fully heal you in both games. It's only 27 in 64. So unless they change how level ups work in this hack, this means that level up heals stop being an option for the Master Quest pit of 100 trials. Where in TTYD, they're a very handy pit stop. So uh, good luck with the pit run! Because that's one option that'll likely be thrown out the window (along with the lack of Superguards.)
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Jul 28, 2019 05:57
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I can't remember if I actually beat Paper Mario, I know I didn't really care for it between the incredibly short music loops, tiny inventory and partner mechanics that they improved on TTYD. The first couple updates made it seem like they made it interesting. Then the decision to change item costs mostly for the worst, and changing the damage from "just slightly a hair above vanilla, but so do your tools" to "congrats on having a couple bad timed blocks, have a 10 damage blast, hopefully you can prevent a second one from going off.
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Jul 28, 2019 20:22
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Part 7 : Bombette, Burgling, Bros, “Bowser”, and a Bill-ion Bullets We’ll start by cleaning out Koopa Bros. Fortress of a few loose goodies. First step is to head back to the Fortress’s front door.  We’re ambushed by a Koopa on the way there, which lets Bombette show off her skills.  Bombette’s default attack, Body Slam, has 2 Attack - same as in the base game.  And her Bomb attack lets her explode for 5 damage on the frontmost enemy! It’ll also OHKO Bob-ombs, even if they’re calm. This is the same as the base game, as well.   On the way to the door, we blow up the wall of one of the cages with keys. This’ll be our ticket deeper into the fortress later.  Sadly, the other cage-with-a-key has a weak wall on the inside, so we’ll have to get the second key in this room by a more roundabout method.   We head back to the path outside the Fortress, where we saw a pipe blocked off with a wall. Bombette gets us through it easily.    On the other side of the pipe is a grassy, fenced-in area. There’s a chest with a FP Plus badge here! FP Plus lets us trade 3 BP for 5 FP, effectively. It’s the counterpart to HP Plus. With these two badges in our arsenal, we now have some flexibility in what stat distribution we bring to any particular fight.   Back in the spiral room, we’re able to blow open a cracked wall, leading to a peaceful outdoor alcove with a chest.  It has the Refund badge, which will give us back some coins if we use an item. I think we get 75% of the purchase price.  With the key we picked up, we’re able to proceed past that locked door in the room with the item blocks.   The next room is the room with the cages - but we’re on top of them! There’s a puzzle involving hitting switches with Kooper, which extend barriers and platforms from the walls.  After that, the next room has a switch, another locked door, and another one of those hanging staircases.   The switch does the same as the last one, lowering the stairs. This set of stairs creates a shortcut to ground level.    We take the stairs down and find ourselves in the room with the Bob-ombs guarding it. We can now get to the cracked wall in here, using the staircase as a step stool - so, Bombette blows it up.   Going through the hole in the wall, we end up in the cage with the other key. This is the last key we’ll have to collect in the Fortress, and it opens the locked door in at the top of the staircase room.   Through the door is… a dead-end, high over the first room we visited in the Fortress with the pool of water. There is a switch, though.     It turns out there was a MASSIVE staircase hidden in that pool! We’ll have to get by those Koopas before we can climb it, though.    It’s hard to pull off, but Bombette can First Strike enemies if you get her next to them. Not only does this heavily damage the frontmost enemy (the Koopa) - here, it ended up Shrinking the Koopa, too!  Since this Koopa is Shrunk, its Attack gets cut in half, going to 1. It turns out that any Bomb attack from Bombette has a chance to do this, if it doesn’t KO the enemy first. This is a new addition to Master Quest.    At the top of the big staircase is another spiraling ramp. There’s a door a little ways up. Past that is a Ba-badge guarded by a Bob-omb.  The badge is Smash Charge, which lets Mario charge up his Hammer attack to add +2 damage to the next hit. He can do this repeatedly!  Unlike vanilla Paper Mario, there’s a limit on the maximum level of charge: +6 added damage on any one Hammer attack.   Music: Bill Blaster! Go Faster!  Through the door is a nice, open-air outdoor walkway… and the Koopa Bros are firing Bullet Bills at us!! Not only are the Bills fightable enemies, but if they hit us, it counts as a First Strike.  Which is unfortunate, because in Master Quest, Bullet Bills do 5 damage apiece!   This is a Bullet Bill, a kamikaze attacker. If you don’t beat the Bullet Bills quickly, they’ll slam into you and explode. I’m serious, Mario! These guys will really make us pay if they manage to hit us! We have to beat ‘em before they get the chance to strike us.  Fortunately, there’s a handy Save Block here. Bombette can blow up a cracked rock to let Mario get at a ? block with a Maple Syrup inside.   We dodge the Bullet Bills and enter another alcove at the opposite end of the walkway. This one has a Save Block and a Heart Block. We still need to beat the Bill Blasters to get to where the Koopa Bros. are, though.  Actually beating the Bill Blasters is going to pose a serious problem. They have 2 Defense (making our First Strike, above, bounce off). This means the only attacks that can hurt them are Power Shell from Kooper, Power Jump, Hammer Throw, and Bomb from Bombette. (In Paper Mario, Bill Blasters only had 1 Defense.)  The Blasters have 6 HP, compared to 4 in the base game, so each is going to be trouble to take down. Power Jump makes a good dent, though. The cannons fire a Bullet Bill every other turn; the Bills must wait a turn before they can attack, which gives us time to clear them away.  Power Shell can take out the Bullet Bills, but won’t hurt the Blasters.  Mario can keep whittling down the Blasters on the off turns with Power Jump, and Kooper with Shell Toss. Interestingly enough, we can target any of the Blasters with Shell Toss and Mario’s hammer; they are all considered to be the frontmost enemy, as long as no Bullet Bills are present. When Bullet Bills are present, Mario and Kooper can target any of the Bullet Bills at once, as they are all considered to be frontmost.   Once the first Bullet Blaster is taken care of, this miniboss is greatly defanged.  The remaining blasters will spit out two Bills a turn. Mario and Kooper can each take care of one, and the cannons sit inactive on the next turn. In fact, there’s an opportunity here for some Grade A, all-Mushroom-Kingdom cheese.   The secret is this: Because we’re only Level 4, each Bullet Bill gives us 1 Star Point when we kill it. The Blasters provide an unlimited supply of Bullet Bills, and we can do 1 damage to one Blaster in any given turn without spending FP (using Shell Toss). Each time we do that 1 damage, we have to kill 2 Bullet Bills first. So, if we merely refrain from using any more FP during the battle, and keep both Blasters alive as long as possible, we will have to fight 2*5*2 + 2 + 1 = 23 more Bullet Bills before the battle’s over! At 1 Star Point apiece. Who’s up for some grinding?   The two cannons are now down to 1 HP. At this point, it’d be proper to call it a day and finish the things off. But in Master Quest, we’re going to need every advantage we can get! The game can store up to 100 Star Points during a battle; any more will be discarded. Let’s get some more Star Points!   Now we just have to KO the cannons with Kooper and all is well.      We get 100 Star Points and level up instantly. I’m choosing BP again - this’ll let me trade it for FP with FP Plus, or use it flexibly in other ways.  We equip the FP Plus badge. One last bit of cheese comes to mind: We’re at 93 Star Points already. Can we pick a few fights in the Fortress and get those last 7 SP to level up again before we face the Koopa Bros.?       Looks like we can. I choose FP this time, to give us 15 natural FP. We’ll probably need to use a lot of it to do different strategies, given what the game’ll throw at us.  At this point, it’s back to the Heal and Save block by the outdoor walkway. Through the big door above Mario is the Koopa Bros.    I have 20 HP, 20 FP, a random assortment of items I brought along the way, a badge setup that includes Power Bounce and the new Smash Charge, it’s dark, and the Koopa Bros are wearing sunglasses. Let’s hit it.    Hey, Black? What are you doing?! Hurry, man! Shake a leg! Ow! My shell! Get off! WHOA! Oh, for the love of… What are you doing, Yellow?! That doesn’t look cool at all? OK, hang on… OK! I’m ready, Red! Finally! Let’s do this! Remember to look cool, guys! Mario’s just been standing here the whole time. And then—  What the… is that Bowser??? It can’t be, can it? Music: Trojan Bowser  Gah ha ha ha!!!! I’ve been waiting for you, Mario! Bwa ha ha ha har! The strongest! And the coolest! Behold the glory that is the great Evil King Bowser!! It’s time for me to beat these foolish ideas out of you! Saving Peach? Please!! Watch this and weep!! (The name change was effected by the Master Quest crew. For those who don’t get the joke: Dennis Hopper played King Koopa in the Mario Bros. movie. I had to go to Wikipedia to figure this one out.) Bowser…? But he looks kind of … lame. I mean, he’s lame anyway, but… Does Bowser really look like this? I always imagined him looking, well, a lot scarier.  Mecha-Bowser has 15 HP, and a Defense of 1. Ga ha ha ha!! I am invincible! You are powerless before me! Unfortunately, his Attack has been beefed up compared to Paper Mario. There, he did only 1 damage per hit. Here, well… it’s 5!  We need to take out Mecha-Bowser as fast as possible, so Bombette gets on the job. What’s the matter with you?! This isn’t even funny! You can’t even touch me?!Are the Bros reading from a script in there? Or are they just trying to laugh off the bomb damage?  (Heh heh heh… Mario really thinks that we’re King Bowser!) (Shhhh!!! Mario’ll hear us!)  With only a little more pounding, Mecha-Bowser falls apart. The Koopa Bros.’ signed picture of Princess Peach (the true source of their fighting spirit) falls down below! But the Koopa Bros. aren’t done yet. Music: Attack of the Koopa Bros!  OK, Mario, have a taste of THIS!  The Koopa Bros launch into their special tower attack. The tower does 1 damage for each Koopa on board.   Normally, it takes two attacks to unseat the Koopa Tower. The first makes it unstable, and the second tips it over. With Bombette, we can take a bit of a shortcut.   By the time the Koopa Bros. have gotten up, we’ve been able to Tattle two of them. The Bros all have 8 HP, except for Black Ninjakoopa, who has 6. (They all had 5 HP in the vanilla game.)     We use a POW block to keep them down, and a Fire Flower to get them close to KO.    Green Ninjakoopa goes down as Mario jumps on him, but it turns out that Black Ninjakoopa has 1 Defense when flipped, unlike most Koopas. Goombario bounces off.   The Bros make their Tower again. It only does 2 Damage this time, ‘cause it’s a 2-Koopa enterprise.    It turns out Bombette’s Bomb isn’t the only way to one-hit-collapse the Tower. Using a Thunder Bolt will also do it! Good thing we picked one up on the way to the Fortress. This is only hinted at in a few fan-made walkthroughs, unless you count Donlon stunning the Bros with thunder back in Toad Town.   Mario uses the one Mushroom we brought to this fight (!) to get out of Peril, while Goombario KOs Yellow Ninjakoopa.  Red Ninjakoopa is still recovering from flipping, so Black Ninjakoopa tries to make a ‘Tower’ of one. It fails pretty badly.  Black Ninjakoopa goes down to a well-placed hammer hit, and only Red is left.   Mario prevails!   The Koopa Bros end up falling into their own cell, which the escaping Bob-ombs have thoughtfully repaired.   And we claim our first Star Spirit!!! Music: End of Chapter  And so Mario and friends beat the Koopa Bros. at their fortress and rescued the first Star Spirit. Still, six Star Spirits remain imprisoned, and they must save them as quickly as they can. The future of the Mushroom Kingdom, Star Haven and, of course, Princess Peach… ...lies in the hands of Mario… and his new friends. Their adventure has just begun.Badges: 11/89 (New: FP Plus, Refund, Smash Charge) Star Pieces: 16/180 Chuck Quizmo’s Quiz Questions: 6/64? Game Overs: None… somehow! SUMMARY OF CHANGES FROM MAIN GAME (in this installment) • Bombette’s explosions can Shrink enemies. • Smash Charge has +6 damage boost limit. • Bullet Bills now extremely explosive. (+3 Attack) • Bill Blasters now extremely hard to kill. (+2 HP, +1 Defense, possibly now immune to fire attacks but I’m not sure if they were that way originally or not. They also start the battle with a single Bullet Bill in front of them now.) The Bill Blaster cheese strategy to get 100 SP is not unique to Master Quest. It worked in the main game, too, as long as you fought the Bill Blasters at Level 4 or lower. • Mecha-Bowser actually kinda terrifying. (+5 HP, +4 Attack) • Koopa Bros. have mastered the art of ninja stamina. (+3 HP for Red, Green, and Yellow. +1 HP for Black. Black keeps his 1 Defense even while flipped.) Next Time On Master Quest: We get a message from Peach, and visit a Pit. Quackles fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 08:05
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It was a pretty neat idea to have the Koopa Bros encountered individually so you can see their movesets before the final boss fight. Also, It's always nice to see when these fan hacks give you some more power to make the combat more interesting. I think it might be leaning a little on the masochistic side (RIP Cherry Bombs), but otherwise, it seems pretty interesting.
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Aug 1, 2019 14:18
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Considering all the items you just used, it looks like bosses are a good time to equip that Refund badge to rake in some extra spending money before ending a chapter. Hopefully it's not balanced such that it's required...
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Aug 1, 2019 21:30
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oldskool posted:Considering all the items you just used, it looks like bosses are a good time to equip that Refund badge to rake in some extra spending money before ending a chapter. Hopefully it's not balanced such that it's required... I think I'll do that in future chapters, if I have the BP. I went into the Koopa Bros. battle with Smash Charge instead and never actually used it... ...but then again, I was expecting to get KO'd by the Koopa Bros, and that I'd try again with a proper equipment and badge setup after I saw what they did. Winning on my first try was not expected, but pretty gratifying.
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Aug 1, 2019 22:29
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Heads up! I've added a Badge List below the OP of this thread! It lists all the badges we've found and any changes or additions. Once we meet Tayce T. the cook, and get into the Pit of 100 Trials, I'll include reference lists on those in that post as well. Badge, Recipe, and Pit List
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Aug 2, 2019 02:18
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You should include musical links for the different overworld and battle themes. The Paper Mario soundtrack is really good and the Koopa Bros. theme is especially iconic.
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Aug 2, 2019 10:57
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:You should include musical links for the different overworld and battle themes. The Paper Mario soundtrack is really good and the Koopa Bros. theme is especially iconic. Not a bad idea! It'll take me a bit to backport links to past posts, but I'll post a link whenever we encounter a new outdoors theme, or there's a relevant battle theme.
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Aug 2, 2019 11:27
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Quackles posted:Not a bad idea! It'll take me a bit to backport links to past posts, but I'll post a link whenever we encounter a new outdoors theme, or there's a relevant battle theme. just check out every now and then to see if any music you linked to gets nuked by youtube copyright bullshit speaking from experience that poo poo is not fun to find and replace when it happens
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Aug 2, 2019 12:16
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:just check out every now and then to see if any music you linked to gets nuked by youtube copyright bullshit I'll do my best. My current tactic looks like 'drawing from a channel whose videos have been around a long time'.
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Aug 3, 2019 01:14
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Part 8 : Into The Pit #1 We begin with another interlude.  The Princess is pretty clearly on edge. Being shut up in your bedroom’ll do that to you*. *Unless you have an absorbing hobby, like making Let’s Plays.   But there are tons of guards just beyond your door… And it’s impossible for you to escape through the window… A secret way out? That sounds promising. Let’s look for it.  Maybe there’s somewhere Peach can hide right after she exits her room!   Well, that was a bust. Twink wasn’t kidding about the guards, either. What about in the side alcove with the closet?   Nothing in there but numerous slightly different pink dresses. Hmmm… guess we should look around a bit more.  What’s this?   It’s the secret passage!    The exit makes a LOUD grinding noise as it spins around. I wonder where this comes out?   Another side room of the Castle, but the door’s locked. Not much we can do apart from seeing what else is in the room.   I have it on good authority that reading private diaries is one of Princess Peach’s favorite hobbies, actually - up there with tennis, go-karting, and fighting in Now what have we here…?  Today I went to Star Haven and stole the Star Rod. Now I’m invincible! Cool! I also captured those seven Star Spirits, so they won’t annoy me any more. It was a hard day’s work and I’m feeling pretty bushed. Dinner was nice but a bit bland. Yeah, we definitely need to keep reading. Day: ○ / ✖︎. Month: ☆. Cloudy then sunny. Today was great, diary! I used my castle to lift Princess Peach’s Castle way up into the sky! Then I barged into Peach’s castle and beat up Mario! Yeah! Unbelievable, I know! So fun! And there's more! After that, I kidnapped Princess Peach! I couldn't be happier, diary! I hope she likes me... O-kay then. Now we’ve gotta read the rest!! Day: ✖︎ / ✖︎. Month: ☆. Sunny. Well, the Koopa Bros got beaten by Mario, diary. He even set free that stupid Star Spirit I kept there. I’m so mad I can barely write! “Ohh, I’m Mario, I’m so big and strong and good and helpful…”It’s not a romance novel, Bowser! I hate him! But I’m not worried. There’s no way Mario can save the Star Spirit being held in Dry Dry Ruins. To do that, he’d have to solve the mystery of the sands and then find Dry Dry Ruins in Dry Dry Desert. How would he even know to go to the desert, anyway? So I’m not worried at all. In fact, I’m so calm I’m gonna go to bed now. And he does!  Oh no! I can’t believe I left my secret diary lying out! It would be so embarassing if someone read that thing…  What happens next is kind of a no-brainer.  But Twink is on his way to tell Mario…  We return to Mario.    As a thank you for rescuing him, Eldstar grants us the ability to use Star Powers in battle! There’s a tutorial, but I can explain the powers later, when we use them.  If the seven of us come together, we’ll be able to bestow upon you a Star Power called the Star Beam. The Star Beam is the only thing that can counteract the Star Rod that Bowser wields.   With Eldstar gone, it’s time to hit the road again. Before we head back to Toad Town, it’s time to make a stop at Koopa Village.   Kooper’s house appears to have been colonized by a family of Bob-ombs.  And Koopa Koot wants another favor!  I don’t suppose you could go to Goomba Village and find Goompa, the grandfather? He still has a Tape I lent him a while back. Could you get it for me? I really want it. If you say ‘The Tape’, he’ll know what you’re talking about. Try to keep this whole thing under wraps, would you? You promise, young fella?This particular ask seems kinda sketchy. I’m starting to believe that Koopa Koot might have actually been in the mafia!  The trip back to Toad Town is uneventful. Until… Music: Jr. Troopa     What the— it’s whats-his-name from before! Man, he’s got a bone to pick! Not that he picks it very well, mind you.  For the sake of comedy, we are going to say no.  “My name is Jr. Troopa. You hammered my block. Prepare to die!” Music: Jr. Troopa Battle  Get ready to hurt, Mario! I’m gonna show you a new special skill I just picked up!  Yeah! Check that out! You’ve never seen anything like it before, have you? Your attacks are useless now! Jr. Troopa has a Defense of 1 now. It’s nothing Mario’s Hammer can’t get through.  Yeeowch! Who knew that Mario had such battle skills?  Eeeeeyikes! I don’t remember this happening in Paper Mario. The Koopas are ordinary, but they’re still dangerous. Are these members of that gang Goompa said Jr. runs?  Troopa himself has an Attack of 2. His HP is actually lower than the base game - there, it was 15.  After flipping the Koopas, Mario focuses down Jr. Troopa with Power Jumps. Goombario can’t damage Jr. Troopa and I need his Headbonking for crowd control, so he attacks the Koopa henchmen instead.  A little ways into the battle, one of the Koopas is down, but Mario’s HP is getting low. What’s a plumber to do?     Time to call on the powers of the Stars! Eldstar’s power is ‘Refresh’, which restores 7 HP and 7 FP to Mario the first time it’s used in a battle. It also clears poison and the Shrink status.  It used up our one unit of ‘Star Power’, just below our HP count.    Star Power naturally recharges over time, at the rate of one unit per eight turns. However, Mario can use ‘Focus’ to charge it faster. Each ‘Focus’ charges half a unit; we’ll be able to increase that rate later with certain badges.   With our pit stop complete, Mario KOs Jr. Troopa with another Power Jump.  As far as I can tell, he goes around picking fights with people who are stronger than he is. Talk about dumb! His hobbies are working out and ordering stuff by mail. We make it out of Pleasant Path without further incident.    It seems that one of the Star Spirits is being held captive somewhere in Dry Dry Desert. Bowser wrote it in its diary. Some place called Dry Dry Ruins.Twink meets us as we enter Toad Town, and gives us our hint on where to go next. We take a quick nap at the Toad House before we go on; it’ll recharge our Star Power. (Heart Blocks won’t.)  It turns out the Badge Shop is now open!     We’ve got just enough coins, so we promptly buy out the shop, getting Multibounce, Spin Smash, and Dodge Master. Multibounce and Spin Smash are combat maneuvers I’ll show off later; Dodge Master simply widens the timing window for the ‘dodge’ action command to work. Interestingly, Rowf’s shop has different stock than he had at this point in the original game. Originally, when the shop opened after Chapter 1, Rowf sold Multibounce, Speedy Spin (now given by Twink), D-Down Pound (a hammer attack that let you bypass an enemy’s Defense), and First Attack (which let Mario KO weak enemies with a First Strike, without battling). Meanwhile, in the base game, you could get Dodge Master from the shop after Chapter 2, and Spin Smash only after Chapter 3.  I unequip the HP Plus badge so we can equip all our new prizes. Dodge Master has been buffed; it originally cost 2 BP to equip, and now costs only 1. We’ll explore more of Toad Town later. For now, let’s head back to Goomba Village. Not only do we want the Tape from Goompa, but it’s also time to check out the Pit of 100 Trials!   Near the Goomba King’s former fortress, we’re able to use Bombette get at a block we had to pass by earlier. It’s got a Maple Syrup inside.     “The Tape” turns out to be hidden behind a chair in the Goombas’ house.  What’s that? You want to know what’s on The Tape, do you? Oh, no no… I’m sorry… I’m afraid I can’t tell you at the moment. It was great, though!Suuuuuper sketchy.   We return to the ancient tomb, the Pit of 100 Trials.  Goombario’s Tattles for the Pit have been updated as of version 1.2.0.0, which fixes a few continuity errors I chose not to showcase before. Seeing how this is an ancient tomb, maybe no one’s ever cleaned in here. That would drive my mom insane. She’d have this place cleaned up in a jiffy, though! The center mushroom has been replaced with something strange.  It’s the Double Pain badge! This dubious accessory was added in the 1.2.0.1 update, by popular demand on the devs’ Discord channel. It doubles the damage Mario takes. That’s it. I am never going to use this Badge.  We reach the entrance to the Pit. I switch to Kooper, because his basic attack does the most damage, at the cost of being ground-bound. He also has a strong First Strike, which we’re going to try and use as often as we can. Let’s head into darkness. Suggested Music: Super Paper Mario OST: Pit of 100 Trials The game uses the Dry Dry Ruins theme for the Pit of 100, but we'll be getting our fill of that in Chapter 2. So, let's put on something more fitting...   Floor 1 has a fight with two Goombas. We can take them out in one turn with normal attacks.  Winning makes a pipe appear.  Floor 2 has a fight with a Paragoomba, a Koopa, and a Fuzzy. We make a jump First Strike, so the Paragoomba starts grounded. This looks like a job for Multibounce!  For 2 FP, Multibounce lets Mario jump on all the enemies in order. You have to do the action command for each bounce, so you can stop in the middle of the line if there’s a spiked enemy you don’t particularly want to jump on.    We need to conserve our HP, so we take out the Fuzzy with Hammer Throw and Power Shell (which also KOs the Koopa).  Floor 3 has a Fuzzy, a Paragoomba, and a Parakoopa. We take out the Fuzzy first with normal attacks, then Mario flips the Parakoopa on the next turn.   Kooper’s got the Koopa handled, so we use Refresh to restore our HP and FP. The Paragoomba won’t damage Mario if he guards, so I stall for a few turns and use Focus to restore our Star Power. Then we KO it.  Floor 4 is a Fuzzy and three Bigoombas. Fuzzies bounce around a lot in the Pit room, so it’s hard to get the First Strike on them.   I decide to use another of my new toys: Spin Smash! This Hammer attack sends the hit enemy flying, hitting everything behind it for 1 Damage. It’s worth noting that the splash damage pierces enemy defenses, which can be very useful for resilient enemies. On top of that, Master Quest made the maneuver cheaper. Paper Mario had the move cost 2 FP, but here it costs only 1! Because of this, Multibounce is only useful if you want to hit flying enemies, flip Koopas, or hit certain foes that are rooted to the ground; otherwise, it’s Spin Smash all the way.  I Spin Smash the next Goomba, too. This has weakened them enough that a third Spin Smash and a Power Shell next turn KOs the last two at once.  Floor 5 is a Goomba with a Spiked Goomba and two Spiked Paragoombas in tow. Kooper’s First Strike takes out the Goomba, which means he can KO the Spiked Goomba on his actual turn. Mario helps out with Hammer Throw for the first Spiked Paragoomba.  With the battle much lower-pressure, we Refresh again, and Hammer Throw the last Paragoomba on the next turn. (It’s possible to run from Pit battles, so we’d be able to run away and equip Hammer Throw if we didn’t have it on.)  Floor 6 is a Koopa, a Spiked Paragoomba, and a White Ninjakoopa. I almost got the jump First Strike on the Koopa, but missed. Instead, we flip it with regular attacks. Next turn, we Hammer Throw the Paragoomba, and Kooper KOs the Koopa.   While we’re taking out the White Ninjakoopa, it uses its jump attack. This gives us a free turn to Focus and restore our Star Power; then, Mario uses Refresh next turn, and Kooper gets the KO.  Floor 7 has a Koopa (whose First Strike I got hit by - oops), a Parakoopa… and two Bullet Bills! If we don’t do something this turn, we’re taking 10 damage to the face!  Mario uses Multibounce to get everyone on the ground, then Kooper shows off his bomb defusing skills with Power Shell! With the Bills taken care of, the battle is simple.  Floor 8 has two Bob-ombs and two more Bullet Bills. I made sure to get the First Strike this time! Power Shell KOs three out of four enemies, and the remaining annoyed Bob-omb can be cleared with Mario’s hammer.  Floor 9 has a Bob-omb (I get the First Strike again)… and three White Ninjakoopas! Final exam time! Mario hammers the Bob-omb to get rid of it, and Kooper attacks the first Ninjakoopa.  The back two Ninjakoopas both decide to do their Jump attack, so we KO the one that’s left with normal attacks.  Next turn, I use Power Jump and Shell Toss to KO another Ninjakoopa.  The last one decides to Jump again, so we use Focus.   The Jump attack leaves us in Danger, so we Refresh immediately again. So far we haven’t used a single item in the Pit! The Ninjakoopa doesn’t do anything funny on its turn, so we can KO it.  We get Star Points from the battle - each Ninjakoopa gives one (including the one we met earlier on Floor 6).  Floor 10 of the pit is a little different. Instead of battles, it’s a rest floor, with a chest, a ? block, a Mr. I statue, and a switch that can let us go deeper into the pit - or let us get out alive!  AS YOU CONTINUE DOWN THIS VOYAGE BELOW YOU WILL FIND DANGER AND GIFTS WE BESTOW EACH REST GIVES THE TALE OF ONE WHO HELPED BUILD THEY HAVE ALL DONE A PART IN THIS WORLD THEY HAVE FILLEDHmm. Interesting.  The ? block has a Mushroom.   The chest has the Peekaboo badge! This lets us see the HP of enemies without Tattling them first. In the base game, Merlow sold you this for 10 Star Pieces. Interestingly, the badge only costs 1 BP to equip. In the base game, it was 3 BP - which honestly feels overcosted.  Hitting the switch makes a pipe appear, pointed down. Hitting it again swaps it to pointing up. ‘Up’ will take us back to the entrance, and let us keep our winnings: Peekaboo, a Mushroom, 4 Star Points, and roughly 45 coins.  We’ve survived the Pit of 100 Trials! Well, the first 10 floors, anyway. We’ll have to come back here from time to time, as we get stronger.  Now let’s head back to civilization! The Toad Town logjam should be cleared away by now, so we can freely explore the town and see all it has to offer. We’ll have a chance to prepare before we start our grand expedition to the desert. Game Version: Updated from 1.2.0.0 to 1.2.0.2 Badges: 16/89 (New: Dodge Master, Multibounce, Spin Smash, Double Pain, Peekaboo) Star Pieces: 16/180 Chuck Quizmo’s Quiz Questions: 6/64? Game Overs: None. SUMMARY OF CHANGES FROM MAIN GAME (in this installment) • Jr. Troopa weaker, but has help. (-5 HP, summons 2 Koopas as backup the first time Mario damages him) Yes, that’s only the first time Mario damages him! If Mario sits around and lets another partner do all the work, Jr. Troopa will never summon his henchkoopas. • Rowf opens badge shop with slightly different sources, marketing plan. • Dodge Master badge 1 BP cheaper to equip. • Spin Smash attack 1 FP cheaper to use. (Note that Multibounce is still 2 FP) • Double Pain badge exists, found in ancient pit. • Peekaboo badge now relic of ancients, also found in ruins. It’s 2 BP cheaper to equip, possibly due to awesome lost technology used in its creation. Next Time On Master Quest: We experience all that Toad Town has to offer. 
Quackles fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Aug 3, 2019 |
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Aug 3, 2019 08:48
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Oh neat, they buffed the star spirit power. In the base game he only recovered 5 HP and FP. With all the really gnarly looking combat difficulty increases, it's nice to see some helpful additions as well.
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Aug 3, 2019 11:38
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Clockwork Rocktapus posted:Oh neat, they buffed the star spirit power. In the base game he only recovered 5 HP and FP. With all the really gnarly looking combat difficulty increases, it's nice to see some helpful additions as well. There's a teeny-tiny downside to this, which I haven't gotten around to showcasing yet - though I'll be sure to mention it when we first stumble upon it in-game: Refresh's effectiveness degrades the more times it's used in one battle. First time: 7 HP, 7 FP Second time: 5 HP, 5 FP Third time: 3 HP, 3 FP Fourth time: 1 HP, 1 FP (!) Fifth time+: Zip! (Though I think it still removes poison and Shrink, even then.) Once you finish the battle, the Power's effectiveness resets to 7/7.
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Aug 3, 2019 12:01
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The degradation wasn't even there in the initial version. It was originally just a raw 7 HP and FP heal each time you used it, but it got nerfed because people kept spamming it in battles.
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Aug 3, 2019 12:15
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That degradation doesn't sound like a big deal since you're probably just going to be using it once a battle at most. If anything, this should improve game flow since now you've got a renewable supply of HP and FP. On the other hand, if you're using it like that, it makes you wonder why not just have enemies drop more HP and FP after each battle?
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Aug 3, 2019 12:20
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Ramos posted:That degradation doesn't sound like a big deal since you're probably just going to be using it once a battle at most. If anything, this should improve game flow since now you've got a renewable supply of HP and FP. On the other hand, if you're using it like that, it makes you wonder why not just have enemies drop more HP and FP after each battle? The spamming was mostly relevant in the case of the Pit of 100 Trials.
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Aug 3, 2019 19:23
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I feel kind of obnoxious asking this (and I hope it doesn't transgress site rules regarding  ), but are you able to provide a link to someplace we can get a patch for this hack? I've tried Google and can't seem to track it down, and this definitely looks like something I'd be interested in trying out.Regardless, I'm enjoying this LP, so thanks for doing this. This hack looks really interesting (if quite punishing in places) and you're doing a great job showing off the changes. Aside from the pointless mafia stuff (which I really wish they hadn't done), I'm pretty impressed with what they've done. Well, having Refresh degrade is the sort of change I don't care for either, to be honest. How abusive could spamming that be, especially as encounter damage increases past the point it can keep up? If someone really wants to stack up Damage Dodge and Defence Plus and P-Down D-Up and so on to the point spamming Refresh trivialises lategame encounters, that's a legitimate strategy and I'd say let them do it.
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Aug 3, 2019 20:10
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I think the sheer amount of additional firepower you have access to after chapter 1 does quite a bit to offset the huge difficulty spike you run into mid-chapter. That does beg the question whether everyone would actually make it that far, but you probably aren't playing Paper Mario: Master Quest if you're new to the game.
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Aug 3, 2019 21:59
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Explopyro posted:I feel kind of obnoxious asking this (and I hope it doesn't transgress site rules regarding The devs don't like strategies they consider 'cheesy', and stalling strategies appear to be one of those. Just wait until you see what they've done to Repel Gel. And: I'll put a link to the latest patch (and the patcher!) in the OP. Finding a Paper Mario ROM is up to you, though. Quackles fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Aug 3, 2019 |
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Aug 3, 2019 22:01
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Yeah from what I can gleam, some people resorted to certain strategies for certain parts of the game which were fairly reliable at dealing with the challenges that the devs put in there. So they got taken away and/or nerfed.
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Aug 3, 2019 22:05
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So far it seems to be pretty faithful to the original. Mario RPGs are really good at walking that line between "This is literally the only way to win" and encouraging experimentation, and this is no exception. They've done a lot more than cranking every enemies stats to the max. But I could be speaking early. I've learned not to trust fanmade Master Quests
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Aug 3, 2019 22:09
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Actually here's a question about the koopa bros fortress. Did the Cherry Bob-ombs start showing up as regular enemy encounters after that battle you showed us? Because if they were treated as minibosses and not regular encounters that's a bit more agreeable. I've always loved Multibounce in both PM and TTYD, so it's funny to see it being less useful here. But the buffs to the Spin Smash make it seem really handy.
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Aug 3, 2019 22:36
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FPzero posted:Actually here's a question about the koopa bros fortress. Did the Cherry Bob-ombs start showing up as regular enemy encounters after that battle you showed us? Because if they were treated as minibosses and not regular encounters that's a bit more agreeable. They were minibosses only. Regular encounters had only plain old Bob-ombs. Multibounce will be more useful if we ever go somewhere with a lot of flying enemies.
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Aug 3, 2019 22:50
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Alright, in that case it's more acceptable. While the difficulty does seem a bit higher than I'd probably be comfortable playing (only because it leads to grinding and frequent trips back to heal), the hack does seem to understand when it should and shouldn't throw something crazy at you. And I suppose it is nice that the fights do require a bit more strategy than usual, since most of vanilla PM can be solved with the right partner and Mario's basic attacks. Minibosses and bosses are usually the only things that make you want to break out the big guns.
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Aug 3, 2019 23:01
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Quackles posted:The devs don't like strategies they consider 'cheesy', and stalling strategies appear to be one of those. Just wait until you see what they've done to Repel Gel. Thanks! I'll definitely be giving this a go at some point. Although the devs considering stalling cheesy annoys me, I have to admit. I don't object to trying to challenge players, but "I don't like this strategy, therefore I'll go out of my way to nerf it in bizarre ways after players use it to overcome challenges" just makes me think of the Absolute Virtue discussions that kept cropping up in the Pokemon fangame threads. Which is a shame, because other than that I think whoever made this does have a pretty good sense of how to make things challenging so far, without just resorting to "let's make all the numbers bigger HAHA" like so many supposed difficulty hacks. Edit: to clarify this, I think what I'm trying to say is that I'd rather see designers who dislike certain tools to make challenges where those tools are a poor choice, rather than arbitrarily nerf those tools or deny the player access to them. Design difficult content, sure. I like difficult content. But if players find a solution other than the one in your head, that is a good thing and doesn't necessitate changing the game. Explopyro fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 04:15
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Eh, I think diminishing returns on refresh is fine. Without it optimal play would be to completely fill health and flower power at the end of any encounter that allows it. Skipping past the debate of whether or not its ok balance to include this, that is tedious for the player. This way refresh is still a very useful ability, but avoid the annoying abuse problem.
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Aug 4, 2019 04:26
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Explopyro posted:Thanks! I'll definitely be giving this a go at some point. I dont know posted:Eh, I think diminishing returns on refresh is fine. Without it optimal play would be to completely fill health and flower power at the end of any encounter that allows it. Skipping past the debate of whether or not its ok balance to include this, that is tedious for the player. This way refresh is still a very useful ability, but avoid the annoying abuse problem. I wonder if it's possible for them to compromise, and make a Badge that buffs Refresh. So that it goes something like 7, 7, 5, 5, 3, 1, 0... Maybe make it cost 4 or 5 BP...
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Aug 4, 2019 21:48
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Turns out Goompa had the Pee Tape all along
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Aug 6, 2019 16:06
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What makes this interesting is that because the numbers in this game for the most part are pretty clear cut with little variation (you can only level so much until all available fights give you 0XP) is that you can carefully balance fights to be more like a puzzle. When you know it's going to take x many attacks to deplete the player's HP and vise versa, it's easier to come up with "tough but fair" challenges. I wonder if they messed with the level cap in this. I'm intrigued to watch how this LP goes.
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Aug 7, 2019 09:53
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MR. J posted:What makes this interesting is that because the numbers in this game for the most part are pretty clear cut with little variation (you can only level so much until all available fights give you 0XP) is that you can carefully balance fights to be more like a puzzle. When you know it's going to take x many attacks to deplete the player's HP and vise versa, it's easier to come up with "tough but fair" challenges. My worry is if things get tight enough to hit a "if you didn't put this many levels into HP you're screwed, hope you kept backup saves" situation.
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Aug 7, 2019 15:11
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Bruceski posted:My worry is if things get tight enough to hit a "if you didn't put this many levels into HP you're screwed, hope you kept backup saves" situation. Between the HP/FP badges and the guy that you can pay to swap your hp/fp/BP around I wonder how much of an issue that will end up being.
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Aug 7, 2019 15:19
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What bothers me a little bit so far is it seems your battle strategy so far is juuuuuuust enough to get victory from some unfair fights, using literally everything the game has given you so far to pull it off. Does the game open up more as you get more options? Looking forward to the next update.
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Aug 7, 2019 17:20
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