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Blaze Dragon posted:I expected only an increase in difficulty and some minor changes to mechanics, not a whole new dungeon. That's an impressive level of work for what seemed like just a hard mode hack at first. The pro mode hack that released a while back (that this hack is built on top of) came with extensive, and I mean extensive modding tools. That pretty much lets you adjust all sorts of things about the game to enemies and various attacks, to remodeling or adding in entirely new terrain.
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Jul 19, 2019 15:51
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Procrastine posted:This looks interesting, I'll try it out. From what little I've played, I've noticed a minor change to Tattle from the original: Goombario no longer tells you attack and defense values for some reason. I'm guessing they changed them a lot during development and didn't want to have to update the tattle text each time? You missed some area tattles fwiw, each screen has a different one. It might be worth showing the new areas on the map screen, and by "might" I mean it'll be very underwhelming. The goomba tomb isn't any worse the Ocarina of Time's Shadow Temple imo, and that game was rated E at the time. Yeah, Pro Mode did that too, and it's kind of an unfortunate change. I can kind of see why they did that though, as in Paper Mario 64 and TTYD, enemies don't actually have an attack stat. Instead, the amount of damage an attack deals in 64 and TTYD are tied to the attacks themselves. IntSys just mostly sets the attacks from an enemy to deal the same amount of damage (Or enemies just have 1 attack period), but if an attack deals a different amount of damage, Goombario or Goombella would usually note such a thing in their tattle. But if the ROM hack changes the damage values of all attacks an enemy has, that would be kind of a lot of info to cram into those. And since Tattle shows the HP bars, there's little need to keep HP around if they're taking out the stats part of the tattle. The most unfortunate loss is the lack of information on defense, since that is tied to the enemy along with HP.
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Jul 20, 2019 00:04
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Oh yeah, the other reason I believe the stats got cut out. Pro Mode kind of took a bit of a shortcut and doubled the amount of damage Mario takes instead of just increasing attack power. Due to how Paper Mario's damage formula works (IntSys did a really good job of making it look simple on the surface and having it so the player never really has to worry about too much beyond that, though it's kind more complicated than that under the hood, aspects of which these hacks take advantage of), doubling the damage Mario takes instead of increasing attack damage actually means any defensive boosts (stats, defending properly) were twice as effective as well. Though from what Quackles told me, this isn't the case in Master Quest. So if it's a holdover from that, it could probably get fixed in a later version. Or they could just leave it alone or something.
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Jul 21, 2019 05:56
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Procrastine posted:I pretty much never use first-strikes after getting Dizzy Attack, did hammer strikes deal full damage in the original game or is that a change the hack made? Jumps and hammer first strikes just have you do a no action command version of the attack in the base game. The full damage appears to be a semi-backport from TTYD. (Though doesn't look like they were able to put action commands on first strikes.) Quackles posted:That's good to know! Huh. Weird to give hammer that change, but not jumps. I guess they couldn't get it to do 2 hits or something?
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Jul 22, 2019 02:54
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The usefulness of buffs tend to vary from game to game. If encounters can be cleared out super fast with just damage, yeah there can be little point to them. Status effects are a more tricky thing, as their inflictions are almost always chance based, and more often than not, you don't really get told the odds of them working. While they can make life easier in RPGs, if the player gets unlucky and sees a bunch of failures, or everything is just really resistant to them for whatever reason, they can easily be written off as useless. Paper Mario 64 and TTYD aren't really much different in that regard. A lot is based on how much an enemy resists things, none of which is told to you. Though in the case of Paper Mario 64, I believe any attacks that can inflict a status effect has a base 100% success rate if you succeed at the action command. (it's a bit different in TTYD for a few things I believe.) Also fun fact, a few attacks that inflict a status effect in this game actually get more difficult to execute their action commands if the enemies resist the status effect. (Kooper's Dizzy Shell is one example.) And against enemies immune to it, you flat out cannot succeed at the action command at all. I believe this mechanic got taken out for TTYD and it just does the standard RNG roll there.
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Jul 25, 2019 09:21
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From what I've been told, a lot of enemies from the base game have their star point payouts mostly unchanged. Depends on what the new enemies have as their payouts.
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Jul 28, 2019 05:00
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Yeah, star point payouts are dependent upon a few things. The enemy's level stat, which I don't believe gets used for anything else in 64. (In TTYD, it also gets used to determine the success rate of Flurrie's Gale Force.) Star point payouts follow this formula: (Enemy's level - Mario's level) / 2 = Star point payout. So the payout will more often than not decrease by 1 every 2 levels. But the amount of enemies in a battle also affect the payout as well. If the battle starts off with 2 enemies, the payout is 10% bigger for each enemy. For 3 enemies, it's 20% bigger. And for 4 and more, it's 30% bigger per enemy. Though enemies that get summoned to battle don't have this bonus. If you were wondering why star point payouts seemed to be inconsistent from time to time, that's why. TTYD changed things up slightly. It's (Enemy's level - Mario's level) * Battle multiplier + Pit of 100 Trials XP. Battle multiplier is 0.5 if the battle starts off with 1 or 2 enemies. 0.55 if they have 3. 0.65 if they have 4. And 0.75 if it starts off with 5. So basically like in 64, the payout decreases by 1 for every 2 levels a lot of the time. But it actually rewards you more for clearing out hordes in a battle compared to 64. Pit of 100 Trials XP is an attribute exclusive to Pit of 100 Trial enemies in that enemies deep in the pit add on more star points, so you're more likely to get level ups down there. Also on that note, a horrifying revelation can come to mind. In TTYD, the level cap is 99, and level ups fully heal you in both games. It's only 27 in 64. So unless they change how level ups work in this hack, this means that level up heals stop being an option for the Master Quest pit of 100 trials. Where in TTYD, they're a very handy pit stop. So uh, good luck with the pit run! Because that's one option that'll likely be thrown out the window (along with the lack of Superguards.)
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Jul 28, 2019 05:57
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The degradation wasn't even there in the initial version. It was originally just a raw 7 HP and FP heal each time you used it, but it got nerfed because people kept spamming it in battles.
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Aug 3, 2019 12:15
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Yeah from what I can gleam, some people resorted to certain strategies for certain parts of the game which were fairly reliable at dealing with the challenges that the devs put in there. So they got taken away and/or nerfed.
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Aug 3, 2019 22:05
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I'm almost certain these fights are scaled for endgame. That much HP is just a lot to chew through. Unless this hack added in a ton of power boosts to let you do it in mid-game or so. Though the fact that they broke triple digits is a bit concerning. Since Paper Mario 64 on a technical level wasn't designed to go past 99 HP. It's why some lategame bosses in the base game heal themselves a limited number of times. It's a way to extend their health bars by getting around that limitation. (Like final Bowser having three 30 HP heals.)
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Aug 10, 2019 09:40
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Clockwork Rocktapus posted:Was that Cleft flip with the explosion in the base game? I don't remember that at all. Yep, tremors or explosions flipping them over to nullify their defenses entirely (instead of simply lowering it like in MQ) was a trait Clefts had in all of the games they appeared in.
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Aug 15, 2019 16:16
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If you were playing Pro mode, this is where you would first see one of the biggest changes the mod made to the game. (If you don't count the Star Temple.) Yeah they turned Dry Dry Desert into a dungeon. Was thrown for a loop when I ran into that on my playthrough.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:40
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They're permanent, though the short route is only 3 screens longer than the regular path in the base game at least. Aside from exploring the desert, (Or being forced to go through it in this case) it's not like you really go through it all that much. And the shortcut to Dry Dry Outpost can be unlocked shortly after you beat Chapter 2. (Or get the Super Hammer.)
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Aug 21, 2019 21:48
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Explopyro posted:This isn't the first time the hack used this kind of thing either (Buzzar had a similar mechanic, a few of their attacks had a 1-turn stun effect on them, but wouldn't if you blocked), which suggests the hacker likes this kind of design and we might see more of it. I didn't mind it nearly as much on Buzzar, since that's a one-off optional boss fight, but as the core mechanic for a dungeon (and I'm sure we'll see more poison later) it's really unpleasant. Unfortunately, when people complained about the Pokey Mummies, the response was basically "Just block their attacks." (And when pointed out that those particular enemies were a huge difficulty spike above the others... the response was "oh, other enemies will be buffed to make the difficulty more consistent.") I'm not a fan of poison doing that much damage this early too. It's such a huge effective attack power increase, and makes things really unforgiving if you make a single slip up. Not to mention there are so many enemies in the game. The general power level increase really doesn't fit in too well with the amount of enemies this game has in each area. It just makes things a slog.
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Aug 28, 2019 13:56
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Color Printer posted:Pro Mode is interesting in that most things do double damage (sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes unchanged), but blocking reduces damage by 2 instead of 1. Defend Plus and Damage Dodge also have their effect increased to 2 instead of 1. (I know at least one of those does, I can't remember but one of them might not, I'll have to check) This does punish you for being bad at guarding but greatly rewards for you for being good at guarding. That was the result of a shortcut Pro Mode took with Paper Mario's damage formula. Instead of doubling the damage that enemy attacks did, it actually just doubled the damage Mario took. As a result, any defensive increases were twice as effective. (At least Damage Dodge was. In 64, it provided unpierecable defense, though that got nerfed to pierecable defense in TTYD. Not sure if that applied to Defend Plus in Pro mode since that's pierceable defense.) Though despite that being a shortcut, I would definitely say that worked out for the better since it lets the player fight back more.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:08
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Blaze Dragon posted:That's a different beast. SRPGs have much longer, but also far less constant battles. Normal RPGs have a bunch of battles, several of which optional, which should not last long nor be that challenging. When they become like that, it becomes a slog, as the player is forced to constantly run back to heal or burn through items to survive, which leads once again to the former with such a limited inventory and the fact that you'll not get a chance to restock at the boss. Honestly if they lowered the amount of enemies (and increased SP payout to compensate), that might make the changes to the enemies more tolerable. But as it stands, it really kills the game pacing.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:53
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Also Paper Mario 64 only had one DOT status effect in the form of Poison. TTYD has 2 with Poison and Burn. So that kind of limits options a bit if they can't add in new status effects. Though yeah, nerfing Pokey Mummies if they really wanted to keep the poison probably would have been the way to go. Like lowering their attack heavily to compensate for the extra 3 damage.
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Aug 30, 2019 05:40
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I believe status moves and items from the player's end has a base 100% chance of working. However, shrinking only has a 60% chance of working on Tutankoopa in the base game. No idea if the hack also changed other things around though.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:21
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 I don't think Shrink Stomp would even be worth going for at that point if that's gonna block off the way to the Ultra Boots.
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Sep 14, 2019 05:23
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Good old Luigi. Always coming through for us.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:32
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If anyone is wondering why in the world that fight was designed the way it is, it was explicitly designed as an HP check to punish you for not leveling up HP. Leveled up wrong? Back to Chet Rippo for you! And having enemies you can't attack from the get-go is just obnoxious enemy design.
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Sep 18, 2019 12:51
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Blaze Dragon posted:Wait, this is a terrible idea, no matter what your concept of difficulty is. Paper Mario doesn't give consistent experience, it's based on your level. What if you hit the maximum possible level for this part of the game but didn't raise your HP enough, even with badges? That's an unwinnable scenario, isn't it? Chet Rippo exists to reallocate your level bonuses at least.
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Sep 18, 2019 13:29
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MR. J posted:Never played sticker star, but I fought Hooktail in TTYD without the cricket badge. Is that comparable? Not really. Hooktail can be a bit tough without the badge, but she's perfectly reasonable at that point. Taking on a boss without the right Thing sticker means said boss will quarter your damage output and their offenses are pretty big. On top of having a massive HP pool you have to burn through. Like the first boss has 90 HP, and the 2nd boss has 300. Also unlike the Hooktail example where the badge's effects took place from the get-go, you had to use the Thing at the right point (You weren't really told when this was) or you straight up wasted it and have to either slog through the fight or basically restart. And using the right thing turned them into a complete and utter jokes.
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Sep 19, 2019 04:03
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Tactless Ogre posted:Is that Master Quest exclusive? I remember being able to block the dizzying attacks of the Dark Koopa; but it was just as vague as to when you could block that in the original Paper Mario. You could block the dizzy attack in the base game. You had to, otherwise you could very easily get stunlocked in the later parts of Toad Town Tunnels. Was it really taken out in Master Quest? Cause that's kind of lovely if so.
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Sep 22, 2019 13:56
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They weren't. Every rock like that was a Cleft in the base game. It's basically a trick you fall for once and never again since the base game never uses them in different ways.
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Sep 26, 2019 03:43
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Explopyro posted:The change to Repel Gel is one of the things I have to ultimately agree with, I think. It was just so overpowered in the original game (although actually, I seem to remember it lasting 2 turns, not 3?), and having an effect like that around would make it a lot harder to balance fights. Trying to balance something like that by making the item rare doesn't work great either, just because players then tend to either feel compelled to hoard them, or waste them and then regret it on finding a challenge they need it for. But if there are repeatable ways to get it, you can just grind them and trivialise any fight. Repel Gel is indeed 2 turns in Paper Mario.
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Sep 26, 2019 05:16
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ChaseSP posted:Comedy answer, they readded the dummied out encounter of four Amazeee Dayzees that is already in the code. Context for those unaware: https://twitter.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1174771810946244608 Funnily enough, they apparently tried a similar thing in TTYD where a lategame pit formation would have 3 of them. Again, dummied out. The most you can see in a given fight is 2. Flurrie's Gale Force is not a good solution to dealing with that in case you were thinking of doing that. Gale Force is only 60% effective on them, and their level stat, which is 100 in both games by the way, also reduces Gale Force's success rate. Since Mario - Target's level is added onto Gale Force's success rate after that. Mario's level would have to be 41 for Gale Force to even start working on them, starting at a 1% chance for a perfectly executed Gale Force. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 21:52
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https://twitter.com/jdaster64/status/1174781704508194816 Oh whoops, it was 5, not 3 for that TTYD pit formation!
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Sep 27, 2019 22:04
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quiznossubs92 posted:Wait, so what exactly is the point of shrink stomp? If the status wears off before the enemy even attacks then you've generated no additional value over a regular jump and still spent FP. Is the short duration specifically because the Clubbas are resistant to it, or is the change universal? I can't speak for the Red Clubba case, but statuses in the first 2 Paper Mario games have a few properties. Each attack has its own base duration. However, enemies not only have a resistance stat to ailments, they can influence the duration as well. Some enemies cut down the duration the status lasts for. Others are really weak and will extend the base duration.
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Sep 30, 2019 05:37
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BisbyWorl posted:Mega Rush itself just seems way, way, too conditional to see much use as well. That's pretty much what I saw some people do for this hack for some fights. They math out the optimal path to fall down to exactly 1 HP to get off a mega attack at a point where they can skip a large portion of the boss fights, or to flat out finish them off.
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Oct 1, 2019 05:33
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Yeah, badges in Paper Mario 64 are entirely separate entities on their own. There's no true support for stackable badges there aside from the stat boosters. Actual stackable support for them was added in TTYD. It's why badges like Quake Hammer no longer have multiple tiers in TTYD. It was replaced by stacking multiple Quake Hammer badges and such. Here's a list of the effects of stacking badges in TTYD for those that want to know what they do. The effects can get ridiculous with stacking enough badges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6btDi1crlVY&t=172s
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Oct 2, 2019 19:11
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Take all the items. If they're baits, we might as well see the new content. If not, at least it'll be some help you can get for MQ. Or at least less opportunities for the game to murder you.
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Oct 5, 2019 21:41
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Natural 20 posted:Is there a reason nobody is voting crazy heart? Crazy Heart is only a 1.5 HP restore per turn on average. When enemy damage output is much much higher in this hack. It might give the player some clutch moments, but at that BP cost, there are far better badges to be making use of. Explopyro posted:Speaking of the next version, Quackles, do you know if Thamz is reading this thread and/or if you have a way to contact him? I ran into a bunch of bugs later in the game that are probably worth reporting, but I don't necessarily want to mention them here because most of them are a little spoilery. There's a discord for that. You can report stuff there.
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Oct 7, 2019 19:15
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Electric Phantasm posted:I just checked this video and did he do something else to his game? His looks a lot smoother than I remember Paper Mario being. Probably turned on some filters or replaced the textures. Some emulators have options like that.
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Oct 15, 2019 02:00
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DACK FAYDEN posted:You know what I learned from this video? There's a separate preemptive attack for the Super Boots ground pound. It is in vanilla! A bit tricky to pull off though. For that matter, Tornado Jump first strikes also exist! You can also pull those off in TTYD. Along with the Spin Hammer technique. Can't do it with TTYD's Spring jump though.
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Nov 4, 2019 20:17
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Flower Saver or Star Gift are about the only useful things I see in there now. HP Drain is stupid broken in the base game, but a lot of what makes it so is gone in master quest I think. Also wow at the jungle fuzzy change. Yes stunlocks are very fun to deal with.
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Nov 16, 2019 03:33
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+1 attack or defense in a very small numbers game like this makes a massive difference in how things play out. And in the earlygame, +1 defense is a massive reduction to player DPS, especially when they don't have too many tools to deal with it. For that matter, there's a reason why a lot of RPGs don't go with a system like Paper Mario's math. As neat and simple as it is, it was pretty much designed in the context of these games only, and there's actually quite a lot limiting about its design when trying to work with it. Like I said, attack and defense buffs are massively game changing in a system like this. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 15:49
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Color Splash was good. It doesn't really measure up to some of the older games, but I would say it was such a huge improvement over Sticker Star to really be its own thing. Sticker Star's puzzles were awful and mostly obtuse, and Color Splash pretty much dealt with that. Unfortunately it still suffers from the some of the same key flaws as Sticker Star despite the improvements. A big one is that the battle system is just really unfun to work with compared to the older games.
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Nov 21, 2019 03:02
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 No.Flower Saver or Star Gift.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:29
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Omnicrom posted:Was that Anti-Guy there in the base game? No. Anti Guys could only be fought twice period. Only one guarded the Power Plus chest there. And you fought 3 of them at once later on if you failed one of the quizzes in Bowser's castle. (Oddly enough they counted as different enemies internally from the Shy Guy Toy Box version, as they were slightly more resistant to the Shock status there.)
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Nov 30, 2019 04:13
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